The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

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CharismaticLady

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Do you or do you not believe that your salvation can be lost if you do not maintain a certain level of works. or righteous living?

In other words, do I believe in OSAS? No. There are too many warnings from all the apostles to fall for that one.

I believe in constantly abiding in Christ and He in me by keeping His commandments through His power of grace that strengthens me. 1 John 3:21-24
 

Eternally Grateful

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I'll go with one example:

I am not a OSAS person. I do believe that salvation is a gift from God. I'm not "earning" it-- such an absurdity is laughable actually. Salvation is a gift from God. And it indeed transforming and foundational to everything.

If "Bob" chooses to decline that gift, it's not God failing at all-- He & His gift is still miraculously powerful -- Bob is just declining it and God's not going to force Bob (God is not about enslaving people).
Here is the apostle John speaking of Bob

1 John 2:
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that theAntichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Also. If Bob choses to leave denying christ, Did he really believe in the first place? Did God really save him, Make him a new creature? Give him every spiritual blessing under heaven. Give him the Hope he cherised for and the security he was looking for. The rest he so cherised. Because if he did, WHY WOULD bob lose faith in God. What did God do that was so wrong and so evil that bob said, Nope. God is not real. I want nothing to do with it..

And did God fail.

Well God gave Bob Eternal life. Gave him the seal of the spirit. Justified him, and made him righteous in christ. KNOWING bob would later walk away?

You see my problem with this thinking? It means God made a mistake. God is like. Ok here Bob, A gift that is yours, adopted into my family and made one of my own, only to later be suprised when Bob goes. No thank You god. I no longer want this. So God has to take what he called eternal back, Remove his seal, take his inheritance back.
 

Eternally Grateful

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In other words, do I believe in OSAS? No.

I never asked that, Can you please answer the question.

There are too many warnings from all the apostles to fall for that one.

I believe in constantly abiding in Christ and He in me by keeping His commandments through His power of grace that strengthens me. 1 John 3:21-24

So you believe by abiding in christ and keeping his commandments you will eventually be saved?
 

FollowHim

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I am amazed at relationship blindness. How many sins does someone have to do against you for you to walk away? How much hatred, bitterness and evil in their hearts before you give up, because nothing will change?

Look around at divorces, broken families, difficulty in people telling anothers way of being from their own. We are quicker at breaking relationships and saying take a jump, than agreeing and being in harmony. To Gods face, you cannot say take a jump.

But all sinners will, they cannot help it, it is their continual state. And a believer who now hates God, what are they? Someone who will say I love you God, or take a jump? I prayed with one relative about her fears and brought it to the Lord. She was distraught and I thought as she had gone to church all her life, she would try and reach out. She told me afterwards it was a nice sentiment but nothing more. Unless she is given grace to repent, she will die in this state and be totally lost.

On that day, as we are is our state. Jesus makes it plain in the wedding banquet. The man not dressed appropriately was thrown out. Who believes Jesus was just joking, and he was actually told to go home and get dressed up. This is a one hit reality, a narrow gate and narrow path. It is about eternal realities that in Gods presence are binary, totally binary, black or white. It is why we have so long and such a time to work things through now, but not then, now when things are still hazy, and truth is not fully revealed and complete.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Here is the apostle John speaking of Bob

1 John 2:
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that theAntichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Also. If Bob choses to leave denying christ, Did he really believe in the first place? Did God really save him, Make him a new creature? Give him every spiritual blessing under heaven. Give him the Hope he cherised for and the security he was looking for. The rest he so cherised. Because if he did, WHY WOULD bob lose faith in God. What did God do that was so wrong and so evil that bob said, Nope. God is not real. I want nothing to do with it..

And did God fail.

Well God gave Bob Eternal life. Gave him the seal of the spirit. Justified him, and made him righteous in christ. KNOWING bob would later walk away?

You see my problem with this thinking? It means God made a mistake. God is like. Ok here Bob, A gift that is yours, adopted into my family and made one of my own, only to later be suprised when Bob goes. No thank You god. I no longer want this. So God has to take what he called eternal back, Remove his seal, take his inheritance back.
From the evidence here, you aren't' remotely interested in trying to understand my view-- just informing me why you're right.
You of course have that right.
But it automatically negate all conversation or relationships. You don't even need me here for it!
 
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CharismaticLady

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I never asked that, Can you please answer the question.



So you believe by abiding in christ and keeping his commandments you will eventually be saved?

I know I will because it is His power in me that keeps the commandments through me. And to prove His word is true, like the verse says, in 21-22 "21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight," God answers 100% of my prayers.
 

Eternally Grateful

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I know I will because it is His power in me that keeps the commandments through me. And to prove His word is true, like the verse says, in 21-22 "21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight," God answers 100% of my prayers.
So your salvation is based on you keeping commands?
 

Eternally Grateful

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From the evidence here, you aren't' remotely interested in trying to understand my view-- just informing me why you're right.

From this response, You evidently have no desire to discuss why I do not believe what you believe.
You of course have that right.
But it automatically negate all conversation or relationships. You don't even need me here for it!

What negated the conversation is when you did not even look at what I posted and attempt to show me how I was wrong

You said you think a person could willingly give away or give back their salvation.

My response was to show why I disagree

and this is what I get..

I am confused. I thought was how we converse?
 

CharismaticLady

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So your salvation is based on you keeping commands?

It is not in my born again nature to do anything else. Why would you think it is a struggle? Do you sin because you are not under law but under what you believe to be grace?

Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments." Do you love Jesus? I do.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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From this response, You evidently have no desire to discuss why I do not believe what you believe.
How can we discuss that when you don't understand what i believe and aren't listening?

I do not believe a person earns salvation.
I believe that it's a gift from God. A person can accept or reject that gift. Their choice in no way affects the majesty of the gift, means somebody earned it, or means "God failed".

Do you understand that?
Please show me evidence that you are listening.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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What a relief that eternal security brings! Romans 8.38-39. :)
1 John 5: 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Its powerful to know your ability and power to continue to believe in God is your knowledge that you HAVE eternal life. Security in Christ is our power. it is why paul considered his suffering a momentary light affliction. It is how satan is powerless when he tries to accuse us, It is why we can go out and work. Because nothing in this life is to hard or to painful compared to eternity.

And John continues.

18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life

I keep hearing about warning of apostles. Where here is an apostle giving us the greatest warning of all. The warning being to HOLD ON, and KNOW you HAVE ETERNAL LIFE (it is not conditional or something you may not get) and to KNOW GOD. and all these things.

because that is where we get the power to continue to believe and continue to move forward
 

Eternally Grateful

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How can we discuss that when you don't understand what i believe and aren't listening?

I do not believe a person earns salvation.
I believe that it's a gift from God. A person can accept or reject that gift. Their choice in no way affects the majesty of the gift or means "God failed".

Do you understand that?
Please show me evidence that you are listening.

1. You said you believe a person can reject a gift after he had it. I admitted that twice now. Why is it you continue to say I am not hearing you?
2. I showed you why I do not agree with you. why I do not agree that a person can just reject a gift AFTER he received it.

would you like to discuss that Or keep telling me I am not listening?
 

CharismaticLady

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Here is the apostle John speaking of Bob

1 John 2:
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that theAntichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Also. If Bob choses to leave denying christ, Did he really believe in the first place? Did God really save him, Make him a new creature? Give him every spiritual blessing under heaven. Give him the Hope he cherised for and the security he was looking for. The rest he so cherised. Because if he did, WHY WOULD bob lose faith in God. What did God do that was so wrong and so evil that bob said, Nope. God is not real. I want nothing to do with it..

And did God fail.

Well God gave Bob Eternal life. Gave him the seal of the spirit. Justified him, and made him righteous in christ. KNOWING bob would later walk away?

You see my problem with this thinking? It means God made a mistake. God is like. Ok here Bob, A gift that is yours, adopted into my family and made one of my own, only to later be suprised when Bob goes. No thank You god. I no longer want this. So God has to take what he called eternal back, Remove his seal, take his inheritance back.

You believe salvation is from day one, when Jesus said IF you endure to the end, ye shall be saved. When you run a race, do you receive your prize at the beginning of the race, or at the end.

I've heard of a number of reasons why true believers in Christ, turn their back on Him, due to God not answering their prayer to heal his wife, or child.
 

Eternally Grateful

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How can we discuss that when you don't understand what i believe and aren't listening?

I do not believe a person earns salvation.
I believe that it's a gift from God. A person can accept or reject that gift. Their choice in no way affects the majesty of the gift, means somebody earned it, or means "God failed".

Do you understand that?
Please show me evidence that you are listening.
by the way,

I agree with you, I do not think that person will get to heaven either.

Our disagreement is in how that came to be.
 

Eternally Grateful

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You believe salvation is from day one, when Jesus said IF you endure to the end, ye shall be saved.

He said this to people in the tribulation period. That there will be great tribulation such as never seen before or after, he who endures to the end wil be saved (PHYSICALLY) eternal salvation is not in context here

When you run a race, do you receive your prize at the beginning of the race, or at the end.
Salvation is not a prise it is a gift. You run to earn a reward. Thats WHY paul said in romans 4 that salvation was not a reward or wage which could be earned..

I've heard of a number of reasons why true believers in Christ, turn their back on Him, due to God not answering their prayer to heal his wife, or child.

Yeah, And I believe these people are still saved, I do not think God kicked them out of his family because they were hurt n fact I think he hurts for them.

When my daughter lost faith in me and turned her back on me, because of my ex wife, I did not kick her out. She is still my daughter and still welcome in my home, why would I expect God to act different then men

finally

Endure to the end, Run the race

So your enduring to be saved, and trying to earn a reward. so how can you say you are not trying to earn your salvation by works? You just in one paragraph proved you are trying to earn your salvation did you not?
 

Jane_Doe22

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1. You said you believe a person can reject a gift after he had it. I admitted that twice now. Why is it you continue to say I am not hearing you?
2. I showed you why I do not agree with you. why I do not agree that a person can just reject a gift AFTER he received it.

would you like to discuss that Or keep telling me I am not listening?
I say that you are not listening because i see no evidence of it.

Did you "earn" salvation when you accepted God's gift of salvation?
Does His gift somehow get better when you accept it?
Does His gift somehow get worse when another rejects it?
by the way,

I agree with you, I do not think that person will get to heaven either.

Our disagreement is in how that came to be.
I'm not you.
You're talking with your old self.
Leaving your old self and old thoughts out of this would greatly improve chances of conversation.
 

Eternally Grateful

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I say that you are not listening because i see no evidence of it.

So you said you believe a person can give back his gift, And i agreed that this is what you have said, and even repeated that back to you multiple times

But I am not listening?

Did you "earn" salvation when you accepted God's gift of salvation?
How could I earn a gift when all I did was receive it?
Does His gift somehow get better when you accept it?
To me it did, Because I went from being dead in Christ, to being alive in Christ.

Was the gift better? No. Was its affect better one me? yes
Does His gift somehow get worse when another rejects it?

its the same gift. Offered to all people

But what this has to do with someone deciding he no longer wants that gift, I do not understand
 

Jane_Doe22

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Did you "earn" salvation when you accepted God's gift of salvation?
How could I earn a gift when all I did was receive it?
Cool, solid "no". We're in agreement there.

Both believing that salvation comes from grace, a gift, and not earned.

Does His gift somehow get better when you accept it?
To me it did, Because I went from being dead in Christ, to being alive in Christ.
Ok, obviously you grew and got better.
But my question was meant did God & God's gift of salvation somehow become more powerful because you accepted it. The answer is "no". God's glory is infinite, regardless of any of us.