Peter's Vision

justbyfaith · May 18, 2020

HARK! said:
Let me break it down for you another way.

את כל יִהְיֶה לְאָכְלָה כְּיֶרֶק עֵשֶׂב נָתַתִּי לָכֶם כָּל רֶמֶשׂ אֲשֶׁר הוּא חַי לָכֶם

to you
He lives
which
insect
all
to you
I gave
grass
A vegetable
For eating
will be
all

I translated each Hebrew word for you.

You can check the definitions here:

Modern Hebrew Dictionary Online Translation LEXILOGOS

I don't know how to use that thing. And I also do not have access to the original Hebrew manuscript on the verse in question.

Here is the thing.

When people claim to have understanding of the original Greek and Hebrew, it provides for a cult mentality; in which the person who claims to have access to the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and the understanding of how it really ought to be translated, has an advantage over your normal everyday joe out there who simply reads his Bible in English and trusts that it is the word of God. It makes for the person who has the knowledge of languages and also access to the original manuscripts to have an authority that stays unchecked so that his or her word goes as the final word and there can be no arguing with it; not to mention there is no way to check the person's words as any true Berean would (see Acts of the Apostles 17:10-11).

While you have provided a number of Hebrew words and have said that I can check the meaning of those words with your dictionary, yet it is true that I have no access to the original Hebrew manuscript so that I can see that the Hebrew word you have suggested is the actual Hebrew word that is used in that particular verse (Genesis 9:3).

Therefore I believe that the English rendering is the rendering that I ought to follow.

Because if one can only get the unadulterated word of the Lord by going back to the original Greek and Hebrew, then it would be true that the educated Hebrew and Greek scholars would have the down-low on what the word of God really teaches and the common people would be dependent on them in order to get the understanding that they need. And this is a cult-like mentality in which certain people have the monopoly on the real meaning of holy scripture. So then, even if they are being dishonest in what they are relating to the people, the people have no choice but to rely upon them. And also, the educated people of Jesus' day were the scribes and Pharisees, and they rejected Jesus while the common people received Him gladly. Thus, if the educated are in charge of all interpretation, interpretation is in the hands of those who are incllined to reject the Lord rather than in the hands of those who gladly receive the Lord.

Therefore I believe that the Lord, in His sovereignty, love, and Omnipotence, has preserved the faithful message of holy scripture in the English translation that is most contended as being inspired and inerrant over and above all others; and that translation is the kjv.

HARK! · May 18, 2020

Angelina said:
I really am not sure what you are trying to prove here. We do not follow the Torah, we are Gentile believers saved by grace through faith. The Torah was for the children of Israel who followed the law of Moses.

Yahshua was commissioned only for Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

YHWH's covenant is with Israel:

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

Yahshua says the law stands as long as heaven and earth do:

(CLV) Mt 5:17
"You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be |called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he/ shall be |called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

BreadOfLife · May 18, 2020

HARK! said:
You do understand that Paul continued to keep YHWH's Moedim and teach his disciples to do so long after Yahshua's ascension; No?

He was telling new converts from Paganism. not to let their Pagan friends and family judge them as they kept YHWH's Moedim. I've gone through the same thing myself. The pork peddlers are the pushiest.

WRONG.

The reason for the Council of Jerusalem was to address the error of JUDAIZERS like yourself.
Paul and Barnabas had encountered them in Antioch. These were the Jewish Christians that were wrongly telling new gentile converts that they needed to adhere to the Mosaic Law in order to be a true follower of Christ.

That is why I posted the Letter from the Apostles from that Council.

HARK! · May 18, 2020

justbyfaith said:
don't know how to use that thing. And I also do not have access to the original Hebrew manuscript on the verse in question.

Here is the 1917 JPS:

Genesis 9 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

BreadOfLife · May 18, 2020

HARK! said:
Yahshua was commissioned only for Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

YHWH's covenant is with Israel:

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

Yahshua says the law stands as long as heaven and earth do:

(CLV) Mt 5:17
"You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be |called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he/ shall be |called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

WRONG.
Jesus said the following to Nicodemus:

John 3:140-16
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that EVERYONE who believes may have eternal life in him. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that WHOEVER believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

The New Covenant is for ALL who believe in and follow Christ.

justbyfaith · May 18, 2020

BreadOfLife said:
WRONG.

The reason for the Council of Jerusalem was to address the error of JUDAIZERS like yourself.
Paul and Barnabas had encountered them in Antioch. These were the Jewish Christians that were wrongly telling new gentile converts that they needed to adhere to the Mosaic Law in order to be a true follower of Christ.

That is why I posted the Letter from the Apostles from that Council.

Yes, Acts of the Apostles 15

HARK! · May 18, 2020

BreadOfLife said:
The reason for the Council of Jerusalem was to address the error of JUDAIZERS like yourself.

Define Judaizer.

There were two sides to the debate at the Council of Jerusalem. One side said that you needed to be circumcised to be saved. This group didn't keep the Torah. They were following oral law. The other side said that you need to be circumcised to keep the Torah. The side that said that you must be circumcised to keep the torah won the debate. You can't come back, 2000 years ex post facto, and add another side to the debate. James settles this.

justbyfaith · May 18, 2020

BreadOfLife said:
WRONG.
Jesus said the following to Nicodemus:

John 3:140-16
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that EVERYONE who believes may have eternal life in him. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that WHOEVER believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

The New Covenant is for ALL who believe in and follow Christ.

Also,

Eph 3:6, That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

justbyfaith · May 18, 2020

HARK! said:
Define Judaizer.

There were two sides to the debate at the Council of Jerusalem. One side said that you needed to be circumcised to be saved. This group didn't keep the Torah. They were following oral law. The other side said that you need to be circumcised to keep the Torah. The side that said that you must be circumcised to keep the torah won the debate. You can't come back, 2000 years ex post facto, and add another side to the debate. James settles this.

No, one side said you must be circumcised and keep the law; and the other side contended for what Paul said in Galatians 2:16.

Angelina · May 18, 2020

HARK! said:
Yahshua was commissioned only for Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

YHWH's covenant is with Israel:

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

Yahshua says the law stands as long as heaven and earth do:

(CLV) Mt 5:17
"You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be |called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he/ shall be |called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

Bro... 430 years before the law was given to Moses, God had made a promise to Abraham Genesis 26:4, Acts 3:25 that in his seed, all the nations of the earth shall be blessed. That seed was Christ as reiterated in Galatians 3:16, Galatians 3:19, Galatians 3:29. The promises were made for Israel and for all the nations of the earth before the law came into place. Romans 4:13

Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all. Romans 4:16

BreadOfLife · May 18, 2020

HARK! said:
Define Judaizer.

There were two sides to the debate at the Council of Jerusalem. One side said that you needed to be circumcised to be saved. This group didn't keep the Torah. They were following oral law. The other side said that you need to be circumcised to keep the Torah. The side that said that you must be circumcised to keep the torah won the debate. You can't come back, 2000 years ex post facto, and add another side to the debate. James settles this.

WRONG again.

Those who said that new converts needed to be circumcised were the Judaizers (Acts 15:1) because they were trying to impose the ceremonial aspects of the Law onto Gentiles - which the Apostles said they SHOULDN'T.

There were NOT 2 "circumcision camps" at the Council.

justbyfaith · May 18, 2020

HARK! said:
Here is the 1917 JPS:

Genesis 9 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

Every moving insect that liveth shall be food for you?

Not even what it says there in English.

You really expect us to believe that this is what the LORD said to Noah in Genesis 9:3?

Job 34:3, For the ear trieth words, as the mouth tasteth meat.

justbyfaith · May 18, 2020

HARK! said:
Here is the 1917 JPS:

Genesis 9 / Hebrew - English Bible / Mechon-Mamre

Not an easy enough way to check what you are saying. Way too difficult to find which word in Hebrew relates to the proper English word, and then to type in the Hebrew word in your dictionary.

God doesn't ask us to jump through those kinds of hoops when studying His word. I believe that I can trust my English version and we will leave it at that.

HARK! · May 18, 2020

BreadOfLife said:
WRONG again.

Those who said that new converts needed to be circumcised were the Judaizers (Acts 15:1) because they were trying to impose the ceremonial aspects of the Law onto Gentiles - which the Apostles said they SHOULDN'T.

There were NOT 2 "circumcision camps" at the Council.

(CLV) Ac 15:1
And some, coming down from Judea, taught the brethren that, "If you should not be circumcised after the custom of Moses, you can not be saved."

(CLV) Ac 15:5
Yet some from the sect of the Pharisees who have believed rise up, saying that they must be circumcised, besides charging them to keep the law of Moses.

BreadOfLife · May 19, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Ac 15:1
And some, coming down from Judea, taught the brethren that, "If you should not be circumcised after the custom of Moses, you can not be saved."

(CLV) Ac 15:5
Yet some from the sect of the Pharisees who have believed rise up, saying that they must be circumcised, besides charging them to keep the law of Moses.

These were the SAME Judaizers. They weren't "2 different" camps.
Their error was dealt with ny the Apostles, as I have already shown you.

You are simply arguing in circles because you've LOST the argument.

justbyfaith · May 19, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Ac 15:1
And some, coming down from Judea, taught the brethren that, "If you should not be circumcised after the custom of Moses, you can not be saved."

(CLV) Ac 15:5
Yet some from the sect of the Pharisees who have believed rise up, saying that they must be circumcised, besides charging them to keep the law of Moses.

BreadOfLife said:
These were the SAME Judaizers. They weren't "2 different" camps.
Their error was dealt with ny the Apostles, as I have already shown you.

You are simply arguing in circles because you've LOST the argument.

Indeed. These were the same Judaizers.

HARK! · May 19, 2020

BreadOfLife said:
WRONG again.

Those who said that new converts needed to be circumcised were the Judaizers (Acts 15:1) because they were trying to impose the ceremonial aspects of the Law onto Gentiles - which the Apostles said they SHOULDN'T.

There were NOT 2 "circumcision camps" at the Council.

Nonsense. Anyone who reads Acts 15 objectively will now see this story outside of the deceptive doctrinal bias that has been placed on it.

Those who seek the truth will find it, despite your smokescreen.

The truth is out. Why does this rile your emotions?

BreadOfLife · May 19, 2020

HARK! said:
Nonsense. Anyone who reads Acts 15 objectively will now see this story outside of the deceptive doctrinal bias that has been placed on it.
Those who seek the truth will find it, despite your smokescreen.
The truth is out. Why does this rile your emotions?

Yes - "MY" smokescreen.
The same one that I had to time-travel to hatch 2000 years go. Good grief . . .

As the FULFILLMENT of the Law – Christ made CLEAR that the dietary and cleanliness Laws were NOT important to His followers:

Matt. 15:10-20
“Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.” Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?” He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.” But Peter said to him, “Explain the parable to us.” And he said, “Are you also still without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

Christ stated it is NOT about what goes INTO the mouth that defiles – but what comes OUT.
In Acts 10, when Peter had his vision – he did NOT yet understand.

Paul echoes this sentiment:
Rom. 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit

If you did come actual homework instead of trying to push an agenda - you might actually learn something . . .

justbyfaith · May 19, 2020

Gen 9:3, Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Luk 11:41, But rather give alms of such things as ye have; and, behold, all things are clean unto you.

Rom 14:14, I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

1Ti 4:4, For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5, For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

HARK! · May 19, 2020

BreadOfLife said:
Christ stated it is NOT about what goes INTO the mouth that defiles – but what comes OUT.

He's talking about eating with unwashed hands against Pharisaic tradition, not a green light to go against his YHWH's law. If he did; he wouldn't pass the Deuteronomy 13 test.

Deuteronomy 13
CLV(i) 1 In case there arises a prophet or a dreamer of dreams among you, and he gives to you a sign or a miracle, 2 and the sign or the miracle comes about, of which he spoke to you, saying:Let us go after other elohim (whom you have not known), and let us serve them, 3 you shall not hearken to the words of that prophet or to that dreamer of dreams because Yahweh your Elohim is probing you to know whether you are loving Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 After Yahweh your Elohim shall you go, and Him shall you fear; His instructions shall you observe, and to His voice shall you hearken; Him shall you serve, and to Him shall you cling. 5 Then that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death because he spoke of defection from Yahweh your Elohim (the One bringing you forth from the country of Egypt and the One ransoming you from the house of servants) so as to induce you from the way in which Yahweh your Elohim has instructed you to walk. Hence eradicate the evil from among you. 6 In case your brother, the son of your father, or the son of your mother or your son or your daughter or the wife of your bosom or your associate who is as your own soul should incite you in concealment, saying:Let us go, and let us serve other elohim (whom you have not known, you or your fathers, 7 of the elohim of the peoples who are around you, those near to you or those far from you, from one end of the land to the other end of the land). 8 neither shall you comply with him, nor shall you hearken to him; neither shall your eye commiserate over him, nor shall you spare him; and you shall not cover up for him. 9 For you shall kill, yea kill him. Your hand shall be among the first against him to put him to death, and the hand of all the people thereafter. 10 You will stone him with stones so that he dies, for he sought to induce you away from Yahweh your Elohim, the One bringing you forth from the country of Egypt, from the house of servants. 11 Thus all Israel shall hearken and fear, and they shall not again do anything like this evil thing among you. 12 In case you hear it said of one of your cities which Yahweh your Elohim is giving to you to dwell there, 13 that men, sons of decadence, have gone forth from among you and induced the dwellers of their city, saying:Let us go, and let us serve other elohim (whom you have not known), 14 then you will inquire, investigate and ask diligently. And behold, if the truth of the matter is being established that this abhorrence was done among you, 15 then you shall smite, yea smite the dwellers of that city with the edge of the sword. Doom it, all those who are in it and its domestic beasts, with the edge of the sword. 16 All its loot shall you get together to the middle of its square, and you will burn the city with fire and all its loot as a holocaust to Yahweh your Elohim. It will become an eonian barrow; it shall not be built again. 17 Nothing whatsoever shall cling to your hand from the doomed loot so that Yahweh may turn back from the heat of His anger and be compassionate to you. He will show you compassion and cause you to increase, just as He had sworn to your fathers, 18 provided that you shall hearken to the voice of Yahweh your Elohim to observe all His instructions which I am enjoining on you today, to do what is upright and good in the eyes of Yahweh your Elohim.

Peter's Vision

Is this passage a green light to violate YHWH's Torah?

Yes, you will not surely die.

No, thou shalt not!

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