The Impotent Church

mjrhealth · May 20, 2020

Candidus said:
A couple of things about the issue of the Bible being masculine, and not Feminine as we have it today, is not that the Bible is devoid of the Feminine; that is not what I am saying. In what way is the Church, the Bride of Christ- Feminine?

The Bride is the image of the chaste virgin~ purity. Faithfully waiting on her future Bridegroom.
As the woman is to be in submission to the man, so is the Church, the Bride, to be in submission to the Bridegroom~ Jesus Christ.
From the Bridegroom or Husbands standpoint, God is faithful to His Bride, he cares for her, and provides every need. He protects her, takes spiritual Leadership over her, and gives His life for her~ Masculinity.

The Church, the Body of Christ is to be in submission to God, as a woman is to be in submission to her husband. The issue or image of the Church as feminine on the outside, is actually a statement of masculinity in many ways. Instead of stating equality of men and women, Scripture consistently establishes the superiority of men and the submission of women. When I say "superiority" of men, I am not saying "morally" but "positionally" as God has determined the obligations, roles and responsibilities that each have.

The point is, the Bible established the position of man to be over the woman, just as, the Church is positionally under God. Just as the man has that role, he also has great responsibility because of that position. While the woman is to be in submission to her husband, the husband has the responsibility to be the spiritual leader and provider, taking responsibility to care for, and love his wife as Christ loved the Church.

We cannot avoid the fact that the Bible says that God created man in His image. That man came first. That the woman is under the man. This is repeated throughout all of Scripture.

Abraham the Patriarch. After the Fall, God established the Patriarchy where man was responsible for the woman's welfare. Her safety, her provisions, and her spirituality. The Patriarch was the spiritual leader of the household and responsible to lead his family into truth.

Then came Moses and the Law. God then established the Priesthood. A Priest is a mediator between man and God. A Priest is a representative of God on earth. A masculine position above all Israel. There is no such thing as a female priest by God's choice.

God came as a man in the form of Jesus Christ; a Male, a Second Adam. Jesus chose the Twelve; every one of them a male. When the Church was established, Paul writes that as one of the qualifications to be a pastor was to be a male. The Early Church only had male pastoral leadership. The point I am making is, the reference to the Church being the Bride does not change the masculinity of the Biblical order that God has established. Nothing changed in the New Testament concerning the Biblical order of things, but God corrected the abuse of women, and showed that they are valued by Him, that the approach to God is not limited through the husband, both can be equally saved and submit themselves to God.

Submission is not the same as "insignificance," or lack of value. God sees us all as having value that He gave His life for us. Women are of equal value to men in God's eyes. Yet, we can no more take a feminine anthropomorphic illustration and run with it to extremes in defiance of everything that God has already set in stone. The Church is Feminine in her reliance on God, its responsibility to be chaste and pure, faithful to God. And as God is Superior to all humanity, we are to submit completely to Him as a faithful wife. In this, the Church is feminine.

Where the Church is not feminine, is how it operates and functions. It reflects what we know of Biblical order. Man was created first, then woman. Eve was placed in submission to man. God chose a male figure for His representatives and spiritual leadership. God tells us that the Church is the same as a marriage relationship where the woman submits to the man, and the man loves and cares for the woman. As believers we submit to God in the Biblical order, as a woman is supposed to submit to her husband. But that is as far as God shows this relationship to be Feminine. The operation and function of the Church is still Masculine as God intended, and because of this, it is not designed to be predominately Feminine.

Yet you misunderstand, because it is all about marriage, Everything changed after Christ, but men wouldnt change, the church is female, because she needs a husband, when you become joined to Christ you receive Gods seed, the Holy Spirit and teh Two become as one, when you join your self to mens religions, she has no seed, she is a woman so you get the counterfeit, and that you can see all over this forum, you know Jezebel

Rev_2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

one day men will understand, but who is willing to give it all away for His sake.

marksman · May 20, 2020

Candidus said:
Sure, I am old enough now and laugh at myself that I do not consider what I hear on contemporary radio as actually being “music” by any stretch of the imagination. As my father called my choice of music to be nothing but “noise,” I have become my father! Yes, there is a Culture Clash!

There are topics on the Forum about tattoos and man-buns that are designed to seek out a cultural divide. While some of this is “culture,” it goes way beyond that discussion down to sociological and anthropological issues. Not to use big words, but to summarize that the issue is much more than Old Farts vs. Youth and their cultural divide.

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.” This would include being under the power of popular culture. Can a Christian have tattoos and man-buns? Sure! But the better question would be “Is it profitable”?

In popular culture, Masculinity is now something evil and “Toxic.” The knee-jerk reaction of the cultural Feminism is to denounce anyone that will not yield, to be “mentally ill” “phobic” a “Homophobe”… as if that were a real answer! Yet, for those who are driven by Culture, it has the positive effect of whipping men into being more feminine.

Is this a good thing for society, men in general, and especially… the Church?

Anthropologically, men are defined by their differences from women. When the lines are blurred and minimized, humanity becomes more robotic and asexual. Being less distinct leads to being less of an individual.

It is natural for men and women to be distinct. Yet Culture now is moving towards unisex bathrooms, and open locker rooms. The move is to close the gap between the sexes by feminizing men, and not by making women more masculine. In modern sociology, masculinity is the devil!

In the beginning, God made man and woman. He gave each certain functions and responsibilities. The bible retains these distinctions. Men and women by nature, feel and accept these distinctions, that is, unless Culture trumps Scripture and nature. People do not naturally arrive at minimizing these distinctions, they are educated into believing that such distinctions are evil. Because of this, modern Culture is not attracted to the Church and Scriptural Christianity.

How is the Church dealing with it? I would say BADLY! It seeks to conform to the world by feminizing the Church! Especially in the past 50 years, the Church has slowly (if you call 50 years slow!) become more feminine. We are removing the masculine parts: Many Churches have taken out all the hymns that speak of the Church militant; the “fight” songs. Some have even neutered the Hymnbook to make God neutral or gender-fluid. In many Protestant Churches, there are currently more women in Seminary preparing for the Pastorate than men. If this trend remains, within a generation the clergy will be considered a feminine occupation like nursing and Children’s Daycare.

Because Christianity is not seen as masculine by many men today, the Church is attended by women more than men. The men that find the feminized Church to be attractive, have their masculinity in doubt (I do not speak of Homosexuality only, but Feminized men). Because of this, unfeminized men view Church and Christianity in a negative way. It is viewed as an impotent Church, attended by impotent men. Religion makes you look weak and unmanly. No self-respecting male would subject themselves to it! In fact, look at the women who drag their unbelieving husbands to Church. Most look like they are hostages that scan their eyes to find the exits, as if they are planning a jailbreak!

Biblically, and historically speaking, the Church has not been feminine; but masculine. There is a Biblical order that cannot be breached and not bring negative fruit. As long as the Church becomes more feminine, the more we will see that real men have less interest in it. Culture can drive the direction of feminism, but you cannot always defeat nature and the Biblical design of men and women being different.

WoW! and again I say WoW! Someone else who can see the obvious. I have been saying for at least 10 years what you are saying.

I refer to this in particular. "How is the Church dealing with it? I would say BADLY! It seeks to conform to the world by feminizing the Church!" That is not just some wild claim that is a fact. In most congregations, they are 30% men and 70% women.

The interior of churches are feminized with flowery and "nice" things. One church saw the light and put a Harley Davidson in the entrance. Can you imagines people coming to that church and walking through the door, and one bloke says to the other "Hey man, that's a nice piece of hardware" and sits on it.

The next day he goes to work and says to his mates, "Guess what is in the entrance to my church. A Harley Davidson. You ought to come and have a look."

Another church faced the issue and put armchairs and settees in a room at the back of the church and allowed the men in there and drink coffee and chat. If they wanted to come into the meeting they could. Most of the men who started off in there ended up in the meeting.

Being culturally relevant is not high on the agenda of most churches. We do what we do because we have been doing it forever and a day so we see no need to change.

When I worked for Teen Challenge we didn't say we are holding a meeting on Sunday afternoon to sing songs and have a sermon. No, we went into the streets and pubs and dives starting about 10 pm at night and talked to people.

A friend of mine said God had told him to go into the city centre overnight to talk to the homeless. He did this week after week. End result.. a church was formed and he eventually left it in local leadership hands and went to another city with the same problem. End result another church formed.

You have probably noticed that nearly every church has a ministry to women. Very few have a ministry to men. Churches advertise for a pastor to take care of the ministry to families women and children. I have yet to see an advert for a pastor to take care of ministry to men.

One thing I do think is that this idea the pastor is the minister for everything, he is too busy to take on another ministry to men. They are more work so give it a miss, I have enough to do. That may be the minister's fault because he wants to look busy and earning his keep. Or more likely it is the churches fault because they don't want to change.

One more story. A man had a passion for ministry to bikies. Can you imagine them coming to a nice decent service??? No, he started up a thing called the "God Squad." A bikie gang for Christians. They got their Harleys, leather jackets with their name on the back, dressed in black, dark sunglasses, grew a beard and long hair, and hit the road. Their main port of call? You have guessed it. The bikie gangs. Because of their gracious demeanour they were accepted by the gangs, gave help when it was needed and brought many to the Lord.

Final word. The church is not a building. The church is the people. Ignore their cultural needs at your peril.

VictoryinJesus · May 20, 2020

Candidus said:
There is no argument that the true Church is the spiritual Body;

Agree “no argument that the true Church is the Spiritual Body” so we should move on to perfection, the perfecting of the saints, building one another up in the Spirit. (Only an opinion) but the focus of the thread seems to be on what and how flesh is failing in its representation of what the church looks like “weak” , lacking perfect love and appearing more like the world than Like the Head “strength and power” which is Christ. Looking (again) on and unto what is seen instead of the unseen. We quote it: “But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. [24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:23-24

1 Peter 3:6-7 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement. [7] Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

As long as ...you do well, (1 Timothy 2:15) and are not afraid with amazement. still points to “Spirit” Acts 2:11-12 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. [12] And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
(Acts 9:21-22)...”as long as” same as if you “endure” or “continue” as in Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? (Which ALL are partakers of) but only the Spirit of God endures to the end, able to bear all things.

so we are looking and picking at the dead flesh of a church which walks and talks like the church of God: where the Spirit of God should be the Head “led by the Spirit”, otherwise as you said it is “impotent” and without strength and power...void of Spirit.
and force time and time again flesh can reform instead of “led of the Spirit”
shall worship the Father in spirit
worship him must worship him in spirit

Ephesians 6:18-19 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, (That your prayers be not hindered) and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; [19] And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
“As fellow heirs of grace”

Galatians 3:27-28 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Episkopos · May 20, 2020

You know that the very first thing we are to add to our faith (for maturity) according to Peter (2 Pet. 1) is virtue. The Greek word is "arete" which means MANLINESS or fighting spirit. The Greeks honoured arete as a man having a warrior spirit in such men as King Leonidas (the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae)...and such mythic figures as Achilles and Ajax.

King David had this manly attribute in his slaying of Goliath...among other exploits. Without this kind of manly courage, all other attributes fail when testing comes.

Hidden In Him · May 20, 2020

Episkopos said:
You know that the very first thing we are to add to our faith (for maturity) according to Peter (2 Pet. 1) is virtue. The Greek word is "arete" which means MANLINESS or fighting spirit. The Greeks honoured arete as a man having a warrior spirit in such men as King Leonidas (the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae)...and such mythic figures as Achilles and Ajax.

Nice work, Episkopos! While doing a study on 2 Peter 1 I came to the exact same conclusion. Here is an excerpt:
_________________

Christian Virtue: Self-Sacrifice In Proclaiming The Truth

The apostle Peter began by urging his readers to reinforce their faith with virtue, a word he used verses earlier in saying that Christ was calling them to His Own glory and virtue. "Grace and peace be multiplied unto you amid recognition of Christ our God and Lord, as His Divine Power has given to us all things conducive to life and godliness through the recognition of the One having called us to His Own glory and virtue..." (2 Peter 1:2)

What was this "glory and virtue" Peter now said Christ was calling them all to? In a word, self-sacrifice in proclaiming the truth. Just as Christ suffered persecution for exposing the Jewish leaders as religious frauds who misrepresented God, so too was He now calling His disciples to do likewise. They too would incur the wrath of the religious leaders and possibly even pay for it with their lives eventually, but in manifesting a measure of Christ's virtue, the hope was that they might also attain to an equal measure of Christ's glory in eternity as well. Of this hope, the apostle Paul also encouraged believers with following words, "For the momentary lightness of our afflictions builds for us a far more exceeding weight of glory, while we look not at the things which are seen, but those which are not seen." (2 Corinthians 4:17-18a)

It was for this reason that he also commanded believers in another place, "Arm yourselves with the mind of Christ Jesus … who humbled Himself by becoming obedient unto death — even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in Heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:5-11)

Paul's clear insinuation here was that they were to arm themselves with the same mind as Christ because they too could attain to a great name and great authority in the kingdom of God throughout eternity if they humbled themselves, even unto death. Indeed, the apostles taught that believers were called to reign with Christ as kings, only such glory and honor could be attained only by those willing to suffer for His name's sake.
As Paul stated in Second Timothy, "Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with Him, we will also live with Him. If we endure, we will also reign with Him." (2 Timothy 2:11-12a). Self-sacrifice, then, is what Peter was referring to by the word "virtue" (arete in the Greek), and it is entirely in keeping with the Jewish use of this term. Though borrowed from Greek philosophy, "virtue" for the Jews meant suffering for the Lord, or for God's people, "Ninety-year-old Eleazar, after being put on the Roman "rack" and having endured terrible tortures, is described as follows: "So in this way he died, leaving in his death an example of nobility and a memorial of courage (arete)" (4 Maccabees 6:31, RSV). Other texts confirm that arete in Hellenistic Judaism was particularly associated with "suffering and death for the sake of the nation." (Complete Biblical Library, Alpha-Gamma, P.697, emphasis mine)

The prophets served as great examples of virtue, in that God often called them to openly chastise Israel's religious leaders for their sins, an act which often cost them their lives. Speaking of the prophets, Paul wrote, "[some] were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection. Some faced jeers and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were put to death by stoning; they were sawed in two; they were killed by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated — the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, living in caves and in holes in the ground." (Hebrews 11:32-38)

Yet their "light affliction" as Paul referred to it would eventually earn for the prophets a far more exceeding weight of glory in eternity.

VictoryinJesus · May 20, 2020

Episkopos said:
You know that the very first thing we are to add to our faith (for maturity) according to Peter (2 Pet. 1) is virtue.

As when the woman with a blood issue touched the hem of his garment and strength “virtue” went out from him?

Episkopos said:
The Greek word is "arete" which means MANLINESS or fighting spirit.

Not disagreeing but “which means manliness or fighting spirit” could be received to puff up the flesh. Consider:
Luke 9:54-56 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? [55] But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. [56] For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

Episkopos said:
King David had this manly attribute in his slaying of Goliath...among other exploits. Without this kind of manly courage, all other attributes fail when testing comes.

1 Chronicles 28:2-3 Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building: [3] But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.

VictoryinJesus · May 20, 2020

Psalm 46:9-10 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire. [10] (Peace)Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

Hidden In Him · May 20, 2020

Episkopos said:
You know that the very first thing we are to add to our faith (for maturity) according to Peter (2 Pet. 1) is virtue. The Greek word is "arete" which means MANLINESS or fighting spirit. The Greeks honoured arete as a man having a warrior spirit in such men as King Leonidas (the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae)...and such mythic figures as Achilles and Ajax.

King David had this manly attribute in his slaying of Goliath...among other exploits. Without this kind of manly courage, all other attributes fail when testing comes.

Also just found this in searching through LXX uses:

Let them give glory to the Lord
and proclaim his praise (arete) in the islands.
The Lord will march out like a champion,
like a warrior he will stir up his zeal;
with a shout he will raise the battle cry
and will triumph over his enemies. (Isaiah 42:12-13).

How's that for obvious? Only thing is, it is a tough term to nail down in English. One could not rightly refer to the Lord's virility as "manliness." (also used of women). Maybe virility is the better overall translation, or better yet "valor."

Thoughts?

Hidden In Him · May 20, 2020

Episkopos said:
You know that the very first thing we are to add to our faith (for maturity) according to Peter (2 Pet. 1) is virtue. The Greek word is "arete" which means MANLINESS or fighting spirit. The Greeks honoured arete as a man having a warrior spirit in such men as King Leonidas (the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae)...and such mythic figures as Achilles and Ajax.

King David had this manly attribute in his slaying of Goliath...among other exploits. Without this kind of manly courage, all other attributes fail when testing comes.

Forgive me, but I am INTO this now, LoL.

Another unmistakably military context, this time speaking of Christ when He comes to deliver His people from the forces of the Antichrist at the Battle of Armageddon:

1 Who is this coming from Edom,
from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson?
Who is this, robed in splendor,
striding forward in the greatness of his strength?
“It is I, proclaiming victory,
mighty to save.”
2 Why are your garments red,
like those of one treading the winepress?
3 “I have trodden the winepress alone;
from the nations no one was with me.
I trampled them in my anger
and trod them down in my wrath;
their blood spattered my garments,
and I stained all my clothing.
4 It was for me the day of vengeance;
the year for me to redeem had come.
5 I looked, but there was no one to help,
I was appalled that no one gave support;
so my own arm achieved salvation for me,
and my own wrath sustained me.
6 I trampled the nations in my anger;
in my wrath I made them drunk
and poured their blood on the ground.”
7 I will tell of the kindnesses of the Lord,
of his valor (arete) according to all the things
the Lord has done for us—
yes, the many good things
he has done for Israel,
according to his compassion and many kindnesses.
8 He said, “Surely they are My people,
children who will be true to Me”;
and so he became their Savior.
9 In all their distress he too was distressed,
and the angel of His presence saved them (Isaiah 63:1-9)

Episkopos · May 20, 2020

Hidden In Him said:
Also just found this in searching through LXX uses:

Let them give glory to the Lord
and proclaim his praise (arete) in the islands.
The Lord will march out like a champion,
like a warrior he will stir up his zeal;
with a shout he will raise the battle cry
and will triumph over his enemies. (Isaiah 42:12-13).

How's that for obvious? Only thing is, it is a tough term to nail down in English. One could not rightly refer to the Lord's virility as "manliness." (also used of women). Maybe virility is the better overall translation, or better yet "valor."

Thoughts?

Agreed. Courage and valour embody arete. And good find by the way. The ancients understood the need for honour and courage to maintain civilization and order. Chaos was never far away. But spiritually speaking we are in the same boat. But people prefer to think we are at peace...whereas chaos reigns.

You are taking this reference from a the SEPTUAGINT?

Hidden In Him · May 20, 2020

Episkopos said:
You are taking this reference from the SEPTUAGINT?

Yes. Was looking for your reference to the 300 at Thermopylae. Where did you find it specifically?

Episkopos · May 20, 2020

Hidden In Him said:
Yes. Was looking for your reference to the 300 at Thermopylae. Where did you find it specifically?

I'm a history guy. So I read of ancient battles and especially the Greek way of fighting. It comes in handy to understand the spiritual warfare references in the bible. So these are my own findings.

If you are interested in such things compare Col.2:15...a triumph for Jesus over the armour of the enemy which is according to the flesh...and google tropaion (wiki) which resembles a crucified man in victory using the armour of the defeated foe.

Jesus made a triumph over the enemy of God...the power of the flesh...by crucifying it as a victory.

Hidden In Him · May 20, 2020

Episkopos said:
I'm a history guy. So I read of ancient battles and especially the Greek way of fighting. It comes in handy to understand the spiritual warfare references in the bible. So these are my own findings.

No specific reference? Or would it be too much to dig for. I'd like to use a citation for it if possible, but I understand if tracking it back down might be like finding a needle in a haystack.

Prayer Warrior · May 20, 2020

Candidus said:
Biblically, and historically speaking, the Church has not been feminine; but masculine. There is a Biblical order that cannot be breached and not bring negative fruit. As long as the Church becomes more feminine, the more we will see that real men have less interest in it. Culture can drive the direction of feminism, but you cannot always defeat nature and the Biblical design of men and women being different.

Interesting thread, but I think you kind of missed it....

The Holy Spirit is neither masculine nor feminine, and this is what so many churches are missing--the power and unction of God's Spirit! This is the impotent church!!!

Edit: I'd like to remind you what Paul said in Galatians 3:28--"There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female: for you are all one in Jesus Christ." It's interesting that the Holy Spirit does not distinguish between male and female when power is given to those who believe! There really is no difference in the realm of the Spirit.

So many Christians plod along in our own power and don't get it that apart from Christ we can do nothing. Apart from the power of the Holy Spirit who indwells us, we are powerless and impotent. Look at the life and ministry of Smith Wigglesworth. He understood this truth, and God blessed him with a very powerful ministry. He healed the sick, cast out demons, and even raised the dead, all by the power of the Holy Spirit!

Here's a short excerpt from one of Wigglesworth's sermons. You can find all of his sermons here: Sermons

The Lord wants all saved people to receive power from on High--power to witness, power to act, power to live, and power to show forth the divine manifestation of God within. The power of God will take you out of your own plans and put you into the plan of God. You will be unmantled and divested of that which is purely of yourself and put into a divine order. The Lord will change you and put His mind where yours was, and thus enable you to have the mind of Christ. Instead of you labouring according to your own plan, it will be God working in you and through you to do His own good pleasure through the power of the Spirit within. Someone has said that you are no good until you have your “I” knocked out. Christ must reign within, and the life in the Holy Ghost means at all times the subjection of your own will to make way for the working out of the good and acceptable and perfect will of God within.

Source: Ye Shall Receive Power

Here's more from Smith Wigglesworth.

In Mark 11:24 we read, “What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.” The previous verse speaks of mountains removed, difficulties cleared away. Veneering won't do. We must have reality, the real working of our God. We must know God. We must be able to go in and hold converse with God. We must also know the mind of God toward us, so that all our petitions are always on the line of His will.

As this like precious faith becomes a part of you, it will make you so that you will dare to do anything. And remember, God wants daring men, men who will dare all, men who will be strong in Him and dare to do exploits. How shall we reach this plane of faith? Let go your own thoughts, and take the thoughts of God, the Word of God. If you build yourself on imaginations you will go wrong. You have the Word of God and it is enough. A man gave this remarkable testimony concerning the Word: “Never compare this Book with other books. Comparisons are dangerous. Never think or never say that this Book contains the Word of God. It is the Word of God. It is supernatural in origin, eternal in duration, inexpressible in value, infinite in scope, regenerative in power, infallible in authority, universal in interest, personal in application, inspired in totality. Read it through. Write it down. Pray it in. Work it out. And then pass it on.”

And truly the Word of God changes a man until he becomes an epistle of God. It transforms his mind, changes his character, moves him on from grace to grace, makes him an inheritor of the very nature of God. God comes in, dwells in, walks in, talks through, and sups with him who opens his being to the Word of God and receives the Spirit who inspired it.

Source: Like Precious Faith

Hidden In Him · May 20, 2020

Hidden In Him said:
No specific reference? Or would it be too much to dig for. I'd like to use a citation for it if possible, but I understand if tracking it back down might be like finding a needle in a haystack.

Ah... 2nd paragraph:
http://www.ptta.pl/pef/haslaen/a/arete.pdf

Hidden In Him · May 20, 2020

Hidden In Him said:
Ah... 2nd paragraph:
http://www.ptta.pl/pef/haslaen/a/arete.pdf

Man, oh man is this opening up. Notice the last sentence:

DIFFERENT TYPES OF ARETÉ— Heroic Arete. In Homer’s poems the Iliad and Odyssey, the desire for areté or the possession of areté is a characteristic of the aristocracy. They lived in eminent families under the leadership of a local oligarchy described as ’αγαθος (good). In Homer the word applied to men capable of fighting—able warriors. They had to possess the best weapons, and their wealth guaranteed the quality of these weapons. The mean capable of effectively defending the group united in themselves strength, courage, good birth, and martial skills. Moral or spiritual values were rarely mentioned. Areté primarily meant the strength and skill of a warrior or wrestler, and especially heroic virtue. It was inseparable from a spirit of competition and pride that involved a feeling of duty and responsibility toward the idea of areté. Over time the concept of areté was extended to prudence and cunning, advantageous traits in war. The desire to win the crown of areté is the essence of heroism.

Now what did Paul also talk about incessantly: Winning the crown, and running the race set before us with endurance, doing so lawfully in order to win it (2 Timothy 2:3-5). He's here tying winning the crown to athletic excellence, and that in turn to enduring hardships like a warrior; like a soldier of God.

Appears to be a continually repeated theme in Paul's teachings doesn't it? Add to that his repeated teachings on putting on the full armor of God, and what you come away with is that Paul's was not a theology for wimps.

I've also often noted that the first Gentile chosen by God to receive the outpouring was a Centurion; a commander of men, and a military leader. And some say it's a religion not for men... but for those who are His, it is actually a religion that proclaims, "we are more than conquerers, through Christ who strengthens us."

Hidden In Him · May 20, 2020

Prayer Warrior said:
Here's more from Smith Wigglesworth... As this like precious faith becomes a part of you, it will make you so that you will dare to do anything. And remember, God wants daring men, men who will dare all, men who will be strong in Him and dare to do exploits. How shall we reach this plane of faith? Let go your own thoughts, and take the thoughts of God, the Word of God.

Love this!

VictoryinJesus · May 20, 2020

Episkopos said:
You know that the very first thing we are to add to our faith (for maturity) according to Peter (2 Pet. 1) is virtue. The Greek word is "arete" which means MANLINESS or fighting spirit.

Add to your Faith Manliness strength? @Hidden In Him quoted it...this strength “power” is added and comes from above of God. Man can’t add squat as Christ said not one can add to his stature. (Matthew 6:27) “and yet I say unto you that even Solomon in all his glory ...was not clothed as one of the lilies in the field. (Ephesians 4:13) the measure and stature and fullness of Christ. (No more tossed to and fro) (double-minded).

Again to add to your Faith strength and power with @Hidden In Him quote
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power (strength)from on high.

Getting congested by what is strength, what is power by mankind’s standard? 1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Doesn’t the word say God’s weakness coupled (with His headship)is stronger than (all)men (combined)in there own strength?

Episkopos said:
The Greeks honoured arete as a man having a warrior spirit i

1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

This displays Him, yeah? As those weaker vessels (of little faith) waited to be endued with power (strength)from on high.

VictoryinJesus · May 20, 2020

Episkopos said:
You know that the very first thing we are to add to our faith (for maturity) according to Peter (2 Pet. 1) is virtue.

1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the (addition, multiplying) increase.
Acts 11:23-24 Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.(as a wife does to her husband) [24] For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.

Luke 12:28-32 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, (Galatians 3:27-29 have put on Christ) O ye of little faith? [29] And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. [30] For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. [31] But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you. [32] Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure (having no pleasure in death)to give you the kingdom.

seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you. 2 Peter 1:5-7 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

James 3:17-18 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of (the Spirit of)righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. (Take Hold of the peace and righteousness of God)

Isaiah 27:5 Or let him take hold of my strength, (masculinity?)that he may make peace with me; and he shall make peace with me.

Luke 20:23-26 But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me? [24] Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's. [25] And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's. [26] And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.

marks · May 20, 2020

Prayer Warrior said:
Interesting thread, but I think you kind of missed it....

The Holy Spirit is neither masculine nor feminine, and this is what so many churches are missing--the power and unction of God's Spirit! This is the impotent church!!!

Amen!!!

Transcendence over our human ideas. Power in God's might. Trust in God's word.

Was it David's "manliness" that squared him off against Goliath?

I think David said something . . .

45 Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.

Seems like David saw Goliath as the warrior, and himself as God's emmisary.

We can take great boldness in that!

Much love!

The Impotent Church

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