Helen
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okay why?
I know we are all born in the old nature , but until Christ is purposely rejected, I believe we are "in" until a time of sin or rejection of God.
Creation of All People Except Adam and Eve
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okay why?
I know we are all born in the old nature , but until Christ is purposely rejected, I believe we are "in" until a time of sin or rejection of God.
101G
Well-Known Member
101G
Well-Known Member
Helen, if we was already in the book, why have the book? what is there to remember for? that's if it's a done deal already. what God is saying, "And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels" SHALL is a future tense word, if his Jewels, us, are already made up then it's a done deal. but it is not, because the book is written so that they "SHALL" be his, not his now. we have a choice to come to God, Hearing the Gospel. Romans 10:11 "For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."
Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."
Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"
Romans 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?"
Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
PICJAG.
Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."
Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"
Romans 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?"
Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
PICJAG.
Genesis 1 tells us that God created the human race. Genesis 2 identifies the humans he created in Genesis 1.
Helen
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I guess we see it differently
I see many levels in the kingdom. "Making up My jewels " means one thing to you and another thing to me.
We are not all one glob of Christians ...all His children are not the same.
The ministry of Moses was different to that of Aaron.
There was the order of priests that served in the outercourt , and the order of priest that attended in the Holy Place.
And then outside the outercourt was the general assembly.
Not all twelve went up the Mount with Jesus, just Peter James and John. And so on...
After our initial salvation there are degrees of commitment to God's calling among His people....not all have the same. Just as there are cherubims , serifims , Angels and Archangels ....
But that is for another thread.
I don't think we can build a doctrine on a verse on Malachi ..
One day we will know and understand all things ..right now we know in part and see in part.
Many blessings...H
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BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
I'm not in any dilemma, just because you say I am. Remember, like me you're just an imperfect human. You certainly have a right to your belief of how you choose to reason on the scriptures. That in itself doesn't mean you're right and that you can't possibly be wrong. Also just because I disagree with you doesn't necessarily make me right or wrong. It just means I disagree with you and you nor anyone else has convinced me I'm wrong. I'm not just going to start believing another way when someone hasn't convinced me I'm wrong or that they're right.
Repeatedly the Scriptures refer to God as Savior. At Isaiah 43:11 God even says: “Besides me there is no savior.” Since Jesus is also referred to as Savior, are God and Jesus the same? Not at all. Titus 1:3, 4 speaks of “God our Savior,” and then of both “God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.” So, both persons are saviors. Jude 25 shows the relationship, saying: “God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Italics added.) (See also Acts 13:23.) At Judges 3:9, the same Hebrew word (moh·shiʹa‛, rendered “savior” or “deliverer”) that is used at Isaiah 43:11 is applied to Othniel, a judge in Israel, but that certainly did not make Othniel Jehovah or Jesus, does it? A reading of Isaiah 43:1-12 shows that verse 11 means that Jehovah alone was the One who provided salvation, or deliverance, for Israel; that salvation did not come from any of the gods of the surrounding nations.
Jude 25 in various Bibles basically says:
To the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen. NIV; NLT; ASV; CSB; DBY; NAS; this is just a few translations that say this, there are many more.
The point is, The True God Jehovah. Is working through his Only Begotten Son to save mankind.
So Johovah God has made his Only Begotten Son a saviour . So both Jehovah God and his Only Begotten Son are Saviours.
I said, 2 Corinthians 5:14.
If Jesus is merely "a god" then He is a false god according to John 17:3.
Note that in that verse, the word and is the Greek word kai, which can be translated even.
We are born dead in trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2:1, 2 Corinthians 5:14).
Our names get written in the Book of Life the day that we become spiritually alive.
Once written in, God promises to certain people that their names will never be blotted out.
This does not mean that everyone's name is written in the Book from before they are born.
While I do believe in the doctrine of the age of accountability. Children who have at least one Christian parent are covered until they become accountable through knowledge of the law and the gospel.
There is only one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6). And that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). Yet no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3); even the Spirit of truth.
Therefore I say to you truly by the Holy Ghost that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the Lord; even the Father.
Therefore I say to you truly by the Holy Ghost that Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the Lord; even the Father.
101G
Well-Known Member
first thanks for the reply, not all had out of body experiences nor did all 12 cast out demons nor did all had the same amount of faith. that's not the criteria but holiness, "be ye holy". Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."I guess we see it differently
I see many levels in the kingdom. "Making up My jewels " means one thing to you and another thing to me.
We are not all one glob of Christians ...all His children are not the same.
The ministry of Moses was different to that of Aaron.
There was the order of priests that served in the outercourt , and the order of priest that attended in the Holy Place.
And then outside the outercourt was the general assembly.
Not all twelve went up the Mount with Jesus, just Peter James and John. And so on...
After our initial salvation there are degrees of commitment to God's calling among His people....not all have the same. Just as there are cherubims , serifims , Angels and Archangels ....
But that is for another thread.
I don't think we can build a doctrine on a verse on Malachi ..
One day we will know and understand all things ..right now we know in part and see in part.
Many blessings...H
and there is no levels, of crowns, one size fit all...... (smile).
when christ died on the cross, we became like the first Adam in the garden, innocent, we must answer his call, Romans 10:21 "But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people." God is not going to come down here and throw one on the floor and force the Spirit in them... no, we must answer his call. Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."
and how can they answer id they don't have a preacher. that's why he preached to the spirits in prison.
PICJAG
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
There is a 1000 year separation between Genesis 1 and a man without a name was placed in the Garden. Adam was created on day 6 and was a son of God along with many sons of God who were both male and female like Adam was, because the Female Eve was taken out of Adam. But this happened 1000 years later. The Generations of Genesis 2:4 went on for 1000 years before God planted a Garden.
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth, when they were created, in the day, that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,"
Genesis 2:3
"God blessed the seventh day and separated it as holy; because on that day God rested from all his work which he had created, so that it itself could produce."
So the sons of God created on the 6th day multiplied and filled the earth for 1000 years before the Garden of Eden.
Genesis 2:18-20
18 Adonai, God, said, “It isn’t good that the person should be alone. I will make for him a companion suitable for helping him.”
19 So from the ground Adonai, God, formed every wild animal and every bird that flies in the air, and he brought them to the person to see what he would call them. Whatever the person would call each living creature, that was to be its name.
20 So the person gave names to all the livestock, to the birds in the air and to every wild animal. But for Adam there was not found a companion suitable for helping him.
Adam was called a person without a name until after this person named the animals. Then God called him Adam.
Adam was in the Garden for 30 years. Eve was taken out of Adam, only after 1000 years, after a Garden was planted, after God filled the Garden with plants, trees, and animals, and after a man named the animals, and after God named this man Adam, then Eve was formed from Adam. They both were 30, and they both lived in the Garden for 30 years. Only Cain and Abel were born in the Garden. Cain was probably around 20, and Abel was 15, when Adam and Eve DISOBEYED. There was no dna from the tree. God just literally changed how the earth would now react to only Adam and Eve, in a perfect world, Satan now sin filled humans.
Both Adam and Eve had to wait 100 years. They were 130 years old when they had Seth. They were 30 years old when sin happened, and they had to wait 100 years, making them 130, when Seth was born. Seth was born in the image of fallen Adam, and was not a son of God.
Cain and Abel may have hung out for another 5 to 10 years, and Cain got jealous. God warned him that sin was waiting outside of the Garden, at the door. The angel could not let it in. But then Cain killed Abel and he to had to leave God's presence, and no one remained in the homestead of a perfect Eden.
Cain was cast out into the middle of a world populated by the sons of God. They would have judged and killed him, and the earth would not give him any food. He was cursed with a mark.
This would identify him even in a son of God body. His biology was not changed like Adam and Eve. His wife was a son of God, and their children were workers in bronze, and they had a city and trade to support Cain who was cursed.
Eventually the sons of God married into the fallen genealogy of Adam. Until Noah was more righteous than even the sons of God.
God destroyed them all and the perfect world in the Flood and only Noah, and his 3 sons populated the 3 types of mankind. Caucasian, Dark skinned, and in between. The nations were condensed around Mesopotamia, until God confounded English, and created Indo-European tongues. It has taken about 4500 years to get all humanity speaking English as one again.
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth, when they were created, in the day, that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,"
Genesis 2:3
"God blessed the seventh day and separated it as holy; because on that day God rested from all his work which he had created, so that it itself could produce."
So the sons of God created on the 6th day multiplied and filled the earth for 1000 years before the Garden of Eden.
Genesis 2:18-20
18 Adonai, God, said, “It isn’t good that the person should be alone. I will make for him a companion suitable for helping him.”
19 So from the ground Adonai, God, formed every wild animal and every bird that flies in the air, and he brought them to the person to see what he would call them. Whatever the person would call each living creature, that was to be its name.
20 So the person gave names to all the livestock, to the birds in the air and to every wild animal. But for Adam there was not found a companion suitable for helping him.
Adam was called a person without a name until after this person named the animals. Then God called him Adam.
Adam was in the Garden for 30 years. Eve was taken out of Adam, only after 1000 years, after a Garden was planted, after God filled the Garden with plants, trees, and animals, and after a man named the animals, and after God named this man Adam, then Eve was formed from Adam. They both were 30, and they both lived in the Garden for 30 years. Only Cain and Abel were born in the Garden. Cain was probably around 20, and Abel was 15, when Adam and Eve DISOBEYED. There was no dna from the tree. God just literally changed how the earth would now react to only Adam and Eve, in a perfect world, Satan now sin filled humans.
Both Adam and Eve had to wait 100 years. They were 130 years old when they had Seth. They were 30 years old when sin happened, and they had to wait 100 years, making them 130, when Seth was born. Seth was born in the image of fallen Adam, and was not a son of God.
Cain and Abel may have hung out for another 5 to 10 years, and Cain got jealous. God warned him that sin was waiting outside of the Garden, at the door. The angel could not let it in. But then Cain killed Abel and he to had to leave God's presence, and no one remained in the homestead of a perfect Eden.
Cain was cast out into the middle of a world populated by the sons of God. They would have judged and killed him, and the earth would not give him any food. He was cursed with a mark.
This would identify him even in a son of God body. His biology was not changed like Adam and Eve. His wife was a son of God, and their children were workers in bronze, and they had a city and trade to support Cain who was cursed.
Eventually the sons of God married into the fallen genealogy of Adam. Until Noah was more righteous than even the sons of God.
God destroyed them all and the perfect world in the Flood and only Noah, and his 3 sons populated the 3 types of mankind. Caucasian, Dark skinned, and in between. The nations were condensed around Mesopotamia, until God confounded English, and created Indo-European tongues. It has taken about 4500 years to get all humanity speaking English as one again.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Justbyfaith said when I posted concerning Romans 5:14 I was posting something he said when I was posting concerning Romans 5:14 but I was posting what 101G said concerning Romans 5:14.[/Quote\]
I said:
There is Only One True God his name is Jehovah, the Father and God of Jesus who is The Only Begotten Son of Jehovah God and The Only Begotten Son is rightly called the only begotten god at John 1:18.[/Quote\]
Justbyfaith said:
If Jesus is merely "a god" then He is a false god according to John 17:3.
Note that in that verse, the word and is the Greek word kai, which can be translated even.[/Quote\]
I know of no translation of the scriptures that translates the Greek word "kai" as "even" so far as I checked they translate "kai" as "and" so that's what I'm going by. I think your stretching it just to stay consistent with your believe, which is your right, but I will acknowledge you're stretching it, which is my right.
In the scriptures men and angels are called God's.
Among the Hebrew words that are translated “God” is ʼEl, probably meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” (Ge 14:18) it is used with reference to Jehovah, to other gods, and to men. In some places ʼEl appears with the definite article (ha·ʼElʹ, literally, “the God”) with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.—Ge 46:3; 2Sa 22:31
At Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is prophetically called ʼEl Gib·bohrʹ, “Mighty God” (not ʼEl Shad·daiʹ [God Almighty], which is applied to Jehovah at Genesis 17:1).
The Hebrew word ʼelo·himʹ (God) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ʼʼElo·himʹ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.
At Psalm 8:5 angels are also referred to as ʼelo·himʹ, as is confirmed by Paul’s quotation of the passage at Hebrews 2:6-8. They are called benehʹ ha·ʼElo·himʹ, “sons of God” (KJ); “sons of the true God” (NW), at Genesis 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1. Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, by Koehler and Baumgartner (1958), page 134, says: “(individual) divine beings, gods.” And page 51 says: “the (single) gods,” and it cites Genesis 6:2; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Hence, at Psalm 8:5 ʼelo·himʹ is rendered “angels” (LXX); “godlike ones” (NW).
At psalm 82:1,6 ʼelo·himʹ is used of men, human judges in Israel. Jesus quoted from this Psalm at John 10:34, 35. They were gods in their capacity as representatives of and spokesmen for Jehovah. Similarly Moses was told that he was to serve as “God” to Aaron and to Pharaoh.—Ex 4:16, ftn; 7:1.
The point I'm making or trying to make is that all these other persons, Angels, men, even Satan is said to be a God, yet you get all bent out of shape that the scriptures do say The Only Begotten Son is a God an Only Begotten god even yet it's ok that Angels and men are clearly called gods, but not The Only Begotten Son of God, interesting.
I think you're just being dogmatic, but I know you will most likely disagree with that. What's true in my case is just because you believe because I believe Jesus to be a mighty God but not Almighty God you believe Jesus to have to be a false God concerning John 17:3 all that means to me is you're judging the scriptures wrong for calling men and Satan God. If that's who you want to be. That's on you.
I said:
There is Only One True God his name is Jehovah, the Father and God of Jesus who is The Only Begotten Son of Jehovah God and The Only Begotten Son is rightly called the only begotten god at John 1:18.[/Quote\]
Justbyfaith said:
If Jesus is merely "a god" then He is a false god according to John 17:3.
Note that in that verse, the word and is the Greek word kai, which can be translated even.[/Quote\]
I know of no translation of the scriptures that translates the Greek word "kai" as "even" so far as I checked they translate "kai" as "and" so that's what I'm going by. I think your stretching it just to stay consistent with your believe, which is your right, but I will acknowledge you're stretching it, which is my right.
In the scriptures men and angels are called God's.
Among the Hebrew words that are translated “God” is ʼEl, probably meaning “Mighty One; Strong One.” (Ge 14:18) it is used with reference to Jehovah, to other gods, and to men. In some places ʼEl appears with the definite article (ha·ʼElʹ, literally, “the God”) with reference to Jehovah, thereby distinguishing him from other gods.—Ge 46:3; 2Sa 22:31
At Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is prophetically called ʼEl Gib·bohrʹ, “Mighty God” (not ʼEl Shad·daiʹ [God Almighty], which is applied to Jehovah at Genesis 17:1).
The Hebrew word ʼelo·himʹ (God) appears to be from a root meaning “be strong.” ʼʼElo·himʹ is used in the Scriptures with reference to Jehovah himself, to angels, to idol gods (singular and plural), and to men.
At Psalm 8:5 angels are also referred to as ʼelo·himʹ, as is confirmed by Paul’s quotation of the passage at Hebrews 2:6-8. They are called benehʹ ha·ʼElo·himʹ, “sons of God” (KJ); “sons of the true God” (NW), at Genesis 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; 2:1. Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, by Koehler and Baumgartner (1958), page 134, says: “(individual) divine beings, gods.” And page 51 says: “the (single) gods,” and it cites Genesis 6:2; Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Hence, at Psalm 8:5 ʼelo·himʹ is rendered “angels” (LXX); “godlike ones” (NW).
At psalm 82:1,6 ʼelo·himʹ is used of men, human judges in Israel. Jesus quoted from this Psalm at John 10:34, 35. They were gods in their capacity as representatives of and spokesmen for Jehovah. Similarly Moses was told that he was to serve as “God” to Aaron and to Pharaoh.—Ex 4:16, ftn; 7:1.
The point I'm making or trying to make is that all these other persons, Angels, men, even Satan is said to be a God, yet you get all bent out of shape that the scriptures do say The Only Begotten Son is a God an Only Begotten god even yet it's ok that Angels and men are clearly called gods, but not The Only Begotten Son of God, interesting.
I think you're just being dogmatic, but I know you will most likely disagree with that. What's true in my case is just because you believe because I believe Jesus to be a mighty God but not Almighty God you believe Jesus to have to be a false God concerning John 17:3 all that means to me is you're judging the scriptures wrong for calling men and Satan God. If that's who you want to be. That's on you.
101G
Well-Known Member
thanks for the reply.... (smile), lol, lol, lol, who are you tryin to convince? ... (smile), not me I hope not... yes, you're in a big dilemma. see barney, you missed this one too, Isaiah 60:16 "Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob."
Isaiah 35:4 just eliminates any saviour for you. for while you're in Titus, Titus 1:3 "But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;" so if you want to how that JESUS is a Saviour, then he's God, well what about another from titus, Titus 2:10 "Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things."
Oooop's you forgot those too? how about this one too, Titus 3:4 "But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,"oh the only "WISE" God? get out of here, 1 Timothy 1:16 "Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting." ding, ding, ding, ding. (smile).
1 Timothy 1:17 "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen."
see Jude got it wright, barney your failing is not shecking all the scriptures....
see JESUS the Christ is the "ONLY" wise God..... so the TRUE POINT, only God saves, and watch your dilemma GROW, because you said,
Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." well that just killed that "Both" are saviours....
my, my, my, the scriptures are crystal clear, 2 Timothy 3:7 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." ... oh well......
PICJAG.
101G
Well-Known Member
not saying that you're right or wrong, but an intresting view, but please give scripture where Adam was made on DAY 6. scriptures please/
PICJAG.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Both Genesis 1 and 2. God only had to do it once. I agree that chapter two put Genesis 1:27 into more specific terms. Genesis 2 does not need to be a separate out of dust incident, because Adam was not named but just another unidentified son of God called a general man.
The thing is the first 4 chapters need to be separated and stories in their own right. There is overlap. They are different stories given for a specific purpose. Not neccessarily a step by step history. It would be like writing a book about the Revolutionary War, and the Civil war in the same book and blend the stories into the same landscape without specific identifiers, then expect someone 1000 years from now to figure out that they were hundreds of years apart.
I suggest you pray about what this means:
Rom 5:12, Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13, (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14, Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
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