Why the pope could not possibly be the Antichrist

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Timtofly

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It will be Satan himself. Jesus says they will have a choice between the Christ and Satan.

Current Israel has already accepted the spirit of Satan, those who are athiest. They also do not accept God. Not even the God of their fathers. Is that not what most here testify to already? They claim God and Jesus should have nothing to do with Israel, because Israelis are ungodly and uncaring. Now that seems to me a blanket judgment on the state of affairs. There are hundreds if not thousands of the body of Christ in Israel. But soon all these will be removed when the 6th seal is opened. Then it will be Jesus and Satan as a choice in view of all humanity.

Why do we refuse to heed and rightly divide the truth of Revelation? If what we have been taught contradicts John's record and testimony, why is the contradiction allowed to remain?
 

Hidden In Him

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Let me say this, however. One thing that would clear up the entire issue is if Daniel 11 is not actually related to the end-time Antichrist at all like Daniel 7 is, despite Daniel 11:36 suggesting it might be. If the entire Chapter is actually in reference to Antiochus Epiphanes IV, then it need not even be fulfilled by the Antichrist that is coming.

Barnes gave the following commentary on this, and it fits well. I underlined the key paragraphs:

Barnes's Daniel 11:38 Bible Commentary...

See this link for an interpretation of the entire Chapter in light of history, as having been fulfilled by Antiochus during his time:
Daniel 11 - Prophecy Fulfilled


My apologies, guys. I didn't fully read through the link I provided at the bottom of this post. After reading through it just awhile ago, I don't put stock in it. Barnes' commentary is the one I find credible. Additional commentary from Barnes on the rest of the Chapter as referring to Antiochus Epiphanes IV can be read here:
Daniel 11 Barnes' Notes

Another brief synopsis favoring Antiochus IV throughout:
A Comparison of the Prophecy of Daniel 11 with the History of the Greek World
 

friend of

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I too believe the Antichrist will be a Jewish man. That's the only way the Jews would ever deign to recognize him as their messiah. Isaiah 14:19 says that he will be cast out of the grave like an abominable branch. Branch of what? The olive tree representing the physical Jewish remnant.
 
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friend of

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I also believe that he will make a covenant of sorts with Islam and utilize Islam to destroy Israel when the time comes for that great betrayal.
 

friend of

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I do also believe that the False Prophet could be a pope who will convince Catholics to worship the beast. This makes sense because the pope is said to be infallible and so that is how he will, by virtue of the powers resting within such a position, convince "the world" to follow the AC.
 

Truther

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For some strange reason, all the Protestant reformers decided that the pope (or nowadays the papacy) was this Antichrist. The Seventh Day Adventist Church followed suit. While this may have helped them to separate from the Catholic Church, this was not something which they derived from a study of the Scriptures. But there are multiple biblical reasons why the pope – the bishop of Rome and the head of the Catholic church – cannot possibly be the Antichrist.

Prophecies pertaining to the Antichrist are found primarily in the books of Daniel and Revelation, with some references in the Prophets and the Gospels and Epistles. The Antichrist (also called “the Little Horn”, “the Man of Sin, “the Son of Perdition” , “the Beast”, and several other names and titles
must be a renegade Jew who has full access to the future temple at Jerusalem, where he will literally sit claiming to be God (2 Thess 2:4). He must also present himself to Orthodox Jews as their long-awaited Jewish Messiah. The Greek word antichristos means one who is both against Christ and come in place of Christ.

None of the characteristics of the Antichrist fit any popes, particularly the fact that he is the supreme dictator and controller of the world. The popes had controlled Europe at one time, but they were never dictators over the whole world of humanity. And that in itself should have been sufficient to refute the false idea that the pope (or papacy) is the Antichrist.

God has provided us with an overview of the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist in Revelation 13 (13 being a very fitting number for him because of its evil connotation).

THE BLASPHEMOUS KINGDOM OF THE ANTICHRIST WILL ARISE IN THE FUTURE
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw
a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

THE ANTICHRIST IS BEASTLY, VICIOUS, AND PREDATORY
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto
a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:...

THE ANTICHRIST RECEIVES HIS POWER AND AUTHORITY FROM SATAN
...and
the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

THE WORLD IS ENAMOURED WITH THE ANTICHRIST
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed:
and all the world wondered after the beast.

THE WORLD WORSHIPS SATAN AND THE ANTICHRIST FOR 42 MONTHS
4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

THE ANTICHRIST IS THE ARCH BLASPHEMER OF GOD AND CHRIST
6
And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

THE ANTICHRIST IS THE ENEMY OF THE TRIBULATION SAINTS
7 And it was given unto him
to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:...

THE ANTICHRIST WILL RULE OVER ALL THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD

...and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

THE WHOLE UNBELIEVING AND UNGODLY WORLD WORSHIPS HIM

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

THE SAINTS MUST BE PREPARED FOR PERSECUTION AND MARTYRDOM
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

THE FALSE PROPHET IS ALLIED WITH THE ANTICHRIST TO DAZZLE THE WORLD
11 And I beheld
another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION IS AN ANIMATED IDOL OF THE ANTICHRIST
15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

THE MARK OF THE BEAST WILL CONTROL THE WHOLE WORLD AT THAT TIME
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
The Pope is not the antichrist but the representative for the great harlot of Rev.
 

Hidden In Him

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I too believe the Antichrist will be a Jewish man. That's the only way the Jews would ever deign to recognize him as their messiah. Isaiah 14:19 says that he will be cast out of the grave like an abominable branch. Branch of what? The olive tree representing the physical Jewish remnant.


Hey, bud. If you don't mind my interacting with you here, the entirety of Isaiah 14:19b is addressed to the King of Babylon, so applying v.19 to a Jewish "branch" (as interpreting it to be a Messianic prophecy) seems out of context to me. Granted, the Lord used the king of Babylon to draw a parallel to the things Satan did before the fall, but the context in general is of what would happen to the Babylon king.
I do also believe that the False Prophet could be a pope who will convince Catholics to worship the beast. This makes sense because the pope is said to be infallible and so that is how he will, by virtue of the powers resting within such a position, convince "the world" to follow the AC.

This is possible, but I still favor the Islamic Jesus, the reason being that the ten kings who comprise the leadership of the Islamic Caliphate will hate the whore and burn her with fire, meaning Rome. If they despise the Catholic Church, it would be unlikely that they would honor its leader as a true prophet of Allah.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Man of Lawlessness:

An expression used by the apostle Paul at 2 Thessalonians 2:2, 3 in warning of the great anti-Christian apostasy that would develop before “the day of Jehovah.” The Greek word for “apostasy” here used, a·po·sta·siʹa, denotes more than a mere falling away, an indifferent sliding back. It means a defection, a revolt, a planned, deliberate rebellion. In ancient papyrus documents a·po·sta·siʹa was used politically of rebels.

A Religious Revolt.
This rebellion, however, is not a political one. It is a religious one, a revolt against Jehovah God and Jesus Christ and therefore against the Christian congregation.

Foretold.
Other forecasts of this apostasy were made by the apostles Paul and Peter both verbally and in writing, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself warned of its coming. In his illustration of the wheat and the weeds (Mt 13), Jesus said that the Devil would sow “weeds,” imitation Christians, “sons of the wicked one,” among the “wheat,” the “sons of the kingdom.” These would exist until the conclusion of the system of things, when they would be identified and ‘burned up.’

Paul warned the Christian overseers of Ephesus that after his going away “oppressive wolves” would enter in among true Christians and would not treat the flock with tenderness but would try to draw away “the disciples” after themselves (not just making disciples for themselves but trying to draw away the disciples, Christ’s disciples). (Ac 20:29, 30) He wrote, at 1 Timothy 4:1-3: “However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron [feelingless, seared, so that they do not feel any twinges of conscience because of hypocritically speaking lies]; forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving.”

Paul later wrote to Timothy that “there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; and they will turn their ears away from the truth.”—2Ti 4:3, 4.

The apostle Peter drew a parallel between the apostasy from Christianity and that which occurred in the natural house of Israel. He said: “However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively.” Peter goes on to point out that these would exploit the congregation but that “the destruction of them is not slumbering.”—2Pe 2:1-3.

A composite “man.”
The “man” of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12is, therefore, not an individual, but a composite “man,” a collective group, as the foregoing scriptures show, and this “man” was to continue after the apostles’ death and exist down until the time of the Lord’s presence.

Treason against God
The “lawlessness” that this composite apostate “man” commits is lawlessness against Jehovah God the Universal Sovereign. This “man” is guilty of treason. He is called “the son of destruction,” as was Judas Iscariot, the traitor who betrayed the Lord Jesus Christ and who was instrumental in bringing about his death. He, like Judas, is to be annihilated, sent into extinction forever. This “man” is not “Babylon the Great,” who also fights against God, for she is a woman, a harlot. However, since he carries on a religious rebellion against God, he is evidently a part of mystic Babylon.—Joh 17:12; Re 17:3, 5.

“The man of lawlessness” sets himself in opposition to God and is therefore a “satan,” which means “resister.” And, indeed, his “presence is according to the operation of Satan.” (2Th 2:9) In the days of the apostle Paul, there was “mystery,” or a religious secret, about the identity of this “man of lawlessness.” To this day mystery shrouds his identity in the minds of many persons, because his wickedness is practiced under the guise of godly devotion. (2Th 2:7) By his lying teachings contrary to or superseding, as it were, the law of God, “the man of lawlessness” sets himself up over Jehovah God and other ‘gods,’ mighty ones of the earth, and also against God’s holy ones, true spiritual brothers of Jesus Christ. (Compare 2Pe 2:10-13.) Since he is a hypocrite, a false teacher claiming to be Christian, he “sits down in the temple of The God,” that is, what such false teachers claim to be that temple.—2Th 2:4.

A restraint
Paul speaks of “the thing that acts as a restraint.” (2Th 2:6) It appears that the apostles constituted this restraint. Paul had told the Ephesian overseers that after his going away wolflike men would enter in. (Ac 20:29) He repeatedly wrote admonitions about such apostasy not only here in Second Thessalonians but in many exhortations to Timothy. And he counseled Timothy to commit the things he had heard from Paul to faithful men who would be qualified to teach others. He spoke of the congregation of the living God as being “a pillar and support of the truth.” He wanted it built up as strongly as possible before the great apostasy blossomed out.—2Ti 2:2; 1Ti 3:15.

Much later, at the command of Christ, the apostle John was told to write, warning against sects, mentioning especially the sect of Nicolaus and speaking of false prophets like Balaam and of the woman Jezebel who called herself a prophetess.—Re 2:6, 14, 15, 20.

At work in apostles’ days
The apostle Paul said that the mystery was “already at work.” (2Th 2:7) There were those trying to teach false doctrine, some of these even disturbing the Thessalonian congregation, prompting, in part, the writing of his second letter to them. There were antichrists when John wrote his letters, and doubtless before that. John spoke of “the last hour” of the apostolic period, and said: “Just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists . . . They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.”—1Jo 2:18, 19

Revealed
Following the apostles’ death, “the man of lawlessness” came out into the open with his religious hypocrisy and false teachings. (2Th 2:3, 6, 8) According to Paul’s words, this “man” would gain great power, operating under Satan’s control, performing “every powerful work and lying signs and portents.” Persons deceived by the operation of the composite “man of lawlessness” are referred to as “those who are perishing [literally, “destroying themselves”], as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved.” The apostle shows that they “get to believing the lie” and they will all “be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2Th 2:9-12; ) The judgment is therefore a condemnatory one.

Destroyed
This composite, hypocritical “man of lawlessness” is to be done away with by the Lord Jesus “by the spirit of his mouth” and brought to nothing “by the manifestation of his presence.” The annihilation of this wicked opposer of God will be visible, concrete proof that the Lord Jesus Christ is sitting and acting as Judge. He will not judge according to his own standards, hence the destruction “by the spirit of his mouth” evidently means in expression of Jehovah’s judgment against this wicked class of persons.—2Th 2:8; compare Re 19:21, as to “the long sword which sword proceeded out of his mouth.”
 

Timtofly

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Since Satan is this 2500 year long, composite, human, any mixed up group of governments left after over 4 billion humans die, in a span of 3 years, is possible. There will be so many governments forming and dissolving, that it can only have the name Babylon. Humanity will once again unite as one with Satan in charge. Read the Enuma Elish, and their praise to Satan named Marduk who reigned over Babylon before Abraham was called out of the Nations, and the nation known as the Hebrews was formed.

Satan later known as Pan started to work with the Greeks to start this current deception, saying he was just "another god". Historically, even the Roman church martyred all believers who attempted to expose Pan for who he truly was. His plan all along was to once again control a Babylon (all nations as one). Satan had to wait for God’s timing and God’s plan. Satan could wait forever, if the church, body of Christ would repent and preach a global revival of salvation, instead of teaching and looking for Satan to do as Satan wishes, this so called non-existent human antichrist.
 

Hidden In Him

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Because they are supposed to be representative of diverse locations. The UN wouldn't just abjure their powers to a bunch of arabs.

The UN? LoL. The UN is already in the pocket of Islamic interests as it is. Why do you think they consistently vote against Israel and overlook the crimes Islamic states commit against humanity in the name of Allah? The UN will eventually be a non-entity in comparison with the fourth beast of Daniel and Revelation. It will be like a mouse trying to tell a Gorilla what to do.

But this is such a complex subject that depending on what assumptions we have going in, it can be a great deal of work trying to unravel it all.

No problems. Was just curious about your position.

Hope you're having a good day, btw.
 

friend of

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I'm pretty sure the AC will become leader of the UN as it is constitutes a sort of global body of government. Israel isnt only hated on by the islamic interests of the UN, but by many more nations.
 

friend of

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The UN will eventually be a non-entity in comparison with the fourth beast of Daniel and Revelation. It will be like a mouse trying to tell a Gorilla what to do.

Gonna have to disagree. I dont see a superior governing body to the UN simply springing up in a proverbial night and rendering UN worthless. It will certainly still be relevant when this is all happening
 
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Hidden In Him

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Gonna have to disagree. I dont see a superior governing body to the UN simply springing up in a proverbial night and rendering UN worthless. It will certainly still be relevant when this is all happening

No, no. I'm talking about a military empire unlike this world has ever seen. Imagine the Roman empire at the height of its power, only worse. Some UN-like entity supposed to represent the various nations would be powerless and irrelevant against a military empire that held sway over most of the planet, such that mankind was saying, "Who is like unto the Beast? Who is able to make war with him?"
 

Bobby Jo

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I fully agree the pope can't be the Antichrist. I once heard someone suggest that he could be the false prophet. What do you think of that idea?

The False Prophet is the Anti-Christ. Perhaps you've confused yourself with the "Beast" which is the one-world-government, headed by the False Prophet/AC.

Bobby Jo
 

Bobby Jo

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... Daniel 11 is not actually ...

... what you think it is. But if it were, then you could start at 11:1 and arrive at verse 40 where we stand today in history. But it's not near as much fun obeying SCRIPTURAL CONTEXT, when you could be randomly picking and choosing verses and "fulfillments" as though you knew what you were doing.

You need Four more Blind Guys, -- and an elephant.
Bobby Jo
 

Timtofly

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No, no. I'm talking about a military empire unlike this world has ever seen. Imagine the Roman empire at the height of its power, only worse. Some UN-like entity supposed to represent the various nations would be powerless and irrelevant against a military empire that held sway over most of the planet, such that mankind was saying, "Who is like unto the Beast? Who is able to make war with him?"
How do you work all this out in less than 3 years, and over 4 billion dead in 2 years. There is the saying, Rome was not built in a day. I doubt it will be built in a year either. Satan has his plan, and God did not spoil it in the Bible. If any one knows Satan's plan, who is Satan's whistle blower?

The church is supposed to be repentant and preparing for Christ's return. A global revival is the only way to avoid Satan's plan. Not trying to figure that plan out. The church has been deceived and they better figure that out soon.