Are we our brothers keeper?

Anthony D'Arienzo · May 25, 2020

in Genesis 4:9 we read;
Then the Lord said to Cain,where is Abel your brother?
He said,I do not know.
AM I MY BROTHERS KEEPER?

1] are we our brothers keeper?

2] in what way are we?

3] is this a duty or an option?

4] how much or to what extent do we do this?

5]are there any boundaries to this?

6] do we risk losing fellowship over this issue?

Taken · May 25, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
in Genesis 4:9 we read;
Then the Lord said to Cain,where is Abel your brother?
He said,I do not know.
AM I MY BROTHERS KEEPER?

This remark "brothers keeper" was made early on in Scripture...
Regarding "Siblings" (brothers).

Later we find "Brethren", the ARE Spiritual "Brothers", (sons of God), regardless of Natural parents.

A Natural brother will always be a natural brother, regardless of what either chooses to do.

Jesus Christ is in the business of "keeping" what belongs to Him.

That which Belongs to Him, is those converted IN Christ.

Those IN Christ...have become "MADE" Spiritual "brethren".

Spiritual "brethren" do "keep" one another through love, encouragement, helping hand, comfort, valid admonishments...etc.

Glory to God,
Taken

Anthony D'Arienzo · May 25, 2020

Taken said:
This remark "brothers keeper" was made early on in Scripture...
Regarding "Siblings" (brothers).

Later we find "Brethren", the ARE Spiritual "Brothers", (sons of God), regardless of Natural parents.

A Natural brother will always be a natural brother, regardless of what either chooses to do.

Jesus Christ is in the business of "keeping" what belongs to Him.

That which Belongs to Him, is those converted IN Christ.

Those IN Christ...have become "MADE" Spiritual "brethren".

Spiritual "brethren" do "keep" one another through love, encouragement, helping hand, comfort, valid admonishments...etc.

Glory to God,
Taken

Good input and well said. I think a picture will start to emerge as more people contribute and think on this

Anthony D'Arienzo · May 25, 2020

Galatians 6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

To obey this a judgment would have to be made that a fault has taken place with a view to restoration.many shy away from such a judgment because they are confused between 2 verses;
Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

and
jn7;24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

What do you see as the difference?

Anthony D'Arienzo · May 25, 2020

You can have professed believers who go off course because they focus on personal experiences and are not grounded and settled in the word.
from A Baptist Catechism with Commentary, by W.R.Downing;

Experience can be counterfeited easily, but not Scripture. It is once-for-all delivered!

God’s sure Word makes the simple wise (v. 7). The Hebrew word translated “simple” comes from an expression meaning “an open door.” It evokes the image of a naive person who does not know when to shut his mind to false or impure teaching. He is undiscerning, ignorant, and gullible. But God’s Word makes him wise. “Wise” speaks of one who not merely knows some fact, but of one who is skilled in the art of godly living. He submits to Scripture and knows how to apply it to his circumstances. The Word of God thus takes a simple mind with no discernment and makes it skilled in all the issues of life. This, too, is in contrast to the wisdom of men, which in reality is foolishness (1 Cor 1:20).

, Peter looked to Scripture as a higher and more trustworthy authority than even such a dramatic experience. Commentator Samuel Cox has written, Peter knew a sounder basis for faith than that of signs and wonders. He had seen our Lord Jesus Christ receive honor and glory from God the Father in the holy mount; he had been dazzled and carried out of himself by visions and voices from heaven; but, nevertheless, even when his memory and heart are throbbing with recollections of that sublime scene, he says, “we have something surer still in the prophetic word.” . . .

It was not the miracles of Christ by which he came to know Jesus, but the word of Christ as interpreted by the spirit of Christ.3 Scripture is the product of God’s Spirit moving upon its human authors to produce His Word in written form (2 Pet 1:20-21). As such, it supersedes even apostolic experiences with Jesus Himself.

Perhaps that is why Jesus prevented the disciples on the Emmaus Road from recognizing Him as He “explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures” (Luke 24:27).

He wanted their faith and preaching to be based on Scripture, not merely on their own personal experience—no matter how moving or memorable that experience might be. If that was true of the apostles, how much more should believers today seek to know God’s Word rather than seeking supernatural or ecstatic experiences.

Anthony D'Arienzo · May 25, 2020

Romans 15 King James Version (KJV)
15 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

Helen · May 25, 2020

Yes, we are...

Anthony D'Arienzo · May 25, 2020

Helen said:
Yes, we are...

Hello Helen;

2] in what way are we?

3] is this a duty or an option?

4] how much or to what extent do we do this?

5]are there any boundaries to this?

6] do we risk losing fellowship over this issue?

John Caldwell · May 25, 2020

Helen said:
Yes, we are...

Amen. Cain thought not (or that was his reply anyway) when he murdered his brother. But Scripture places us as our "brothers keeper".

Anthony D'Arienzo · May 25, 2020

Romans 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.

11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

Jane_Doe22 · May 25, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
in Genesis 4:9 we read;
Then the Lord said to Cain,where is Abel your brother?
He said,I do not know.
AM I MY BROTHERS KEEPER?

1] are we our brothers keeper?

2] in what way are we?

3] is this a duty or an option?

4] how much or to what extent do we do this?

5]are there any boundaries to this?

6] do we risk losing fellowship over this issue?

1) yes
2) to support each other on our walk through life and especially walk with Christ. Mourn with those that mourn, comfort those that need comforted, help bear each other’s burdens, etc
3) Duty.
4 and 5) there are boundaries in what is helpful/healthy. Obviously you need to keep your own walk healthy to be able to help others. Also we need to respect other people’s choices, including the choice to decline help and “no” means no.
6) I’m not sure what you mean by this one.

John Caldwell · May 26, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
You can have professed believers who go off course because they focus on personal experiences and are not grounded and settled in the word.
from A Baptist Catechism with Commentary, by W.R.Downing;

Experience can be counterfeited easily, but not Scripture. It is once-for-all delivered!

God’s sure Word makes the simple wise (v. 7). The Hebrew word translated “simple” comes from an expression meaning “an open door.” It evokes the image of a naive person who does not know when to shut his mind to false or impure teaching. He is undiscerning, ignorant, and gullible. But God’s Word makes him wise. “Wise” speaks of one who not merely knows some fact, but of one who is skilled in the art of godly living. He submits to Scripture and knows how to apply it to his circumstances. The Word of God thus takes a simple mind with no discernment and makes it skilled in all the issues of life. This, too, is in contrast to the wisdom of men, which in reality is foolishness (1 Cor 1:20).

, Peter looked to Scripture as a higher and more trustworthy authority than even such a dramatic experience. Commentator Samuel Cox has written, Peter knew a sounder basis for faith than that of signs and wonders. He had seen our Lord Jesus Christ receive honor and glory from God the Father in the holy mount; he had been dazzled and carried out of himself by visions and voices from heaven; but, nevertheless, even when his memory and heart are throbbing with recollections of that sublime scene, he says, “we have something surer still in the prophetic word.” . . .

It was not the miracles of Christ by which he came to know Jesus, but the word of Christ as interpreted by the spirit of Christ.3 Scripture is the product of God’s Spirit moving upon its human authors to produce His Word in written form (2 Pet 1:20-21). As such, it supersedes even apostolic experiences with Jesus Himself.

Perhaps that is why Jesus prevented the disciples on the Emmaus Road from recognizing Him as He “explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures” (Luke 24:27).

He wanted their faith and preaching to be based on Scripture, not merely on their own personal experience—no matter how moving or memorable that experience might be. If that was true of the apostles, how much more should believers today seek to know God’s Word rather than seeking supernatural or ecstatic experiences.

I think it can go both ways.

Spurgeon several times spoke of hearing God's voice in addition to Scripture. The experience of hearing God speak is no less important than Scripture. Both are essential in the lives of Christians. One without the other simply does not work. Spurgeon insisted that God had a specific purpose for believers and would speak to them to accomplish His goals through them.

"This is the mark, the peculiar mark of those who are Christ’s peculiar people—they hear His voice. Sometimes it truly sounds in the ministry; sometimes it thrills forth from that Book of books, which is often grossly neglected; sometimes it comes in the night watches; His voice may speak to us in the street. Silent as to vocal utterance, but like familiar tones that sometimes greet us in our dreams, the voice of Christ is distinctly audible to the soul." C. H. Spurgeon

John Caldwell · May 26, 2020

I'm re-reading a book by Arthur Hertzberg, Judaism. This is a Jewish, not a Christian, book but I find looking at the Jewish context for Scripture important.

Anyway, here is something that Hertzberg offers regarding being our brothers keeper:

"'Then the Lord said to Cain [after the latter killed Abel] 'Where is Abel, your brother?' He answered 'I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?' Cain said: 'You, O Lord, are the Keeper, the one who should watch over all creatures, and yet You ask me concerning Abel.' This situation may be compared to that of a thief who stole at night and was not caught. The following morning, the watchman caught him and asked, 'Why did you steal?' The thief answered, 'I am a thief and I did not abandon my profession. But your profession demands that you watch at the gate. Why did you abandon your profession? And now you ask me why I stole!' Thus, too, did Cain speak to God: 'I killed Abel; but You have created in me the impulse to evil. You are the Keeper of all and yet You permitted me to kill him. You have killed him! If You had accepted my offering as You accepted his, I would not have been jealous of him." (Hertzberg, Judiasm, page 64)

In other words, the question "Am I my brother's keeper" was an attempt to avoid one's responsibility and place blame on God. We are our brother's keeper.

DPMartin · May 26, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
in Genesis 4:9 we read;
Then the Lord said to Cain,where is Abel your brother?
He said,I do not know.
AM I MY BROTHERS KEEPER?

1] are we our brothers keeper?

2] in what way are we?

3] is this a duty or an option?

4] how much or to what extent do we do this?

5]are there any boundaries to this?

6] do we risk losing fellowship over this issue?

who is your brother?

Anthony D'Arienzo · May 26, 2020

DPMartin said:
who is your brother?

The poster Taken did a really good job in post number 2 of offering an answer that works for this.

DPMartin · May 26, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
The poster Taken did a really good job in post number 2 of offering an answer that works for this.

I didn't ask number 2, I asked the OP

John Caldwell · May 26, 2020

Luke 10:30-37 Jesus replied and said, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. "And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. "Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. "But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. "On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.' "Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers' hands?" And he said, "The one who showed mercy toward him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do the same."

Here the word "neighbor" is used rather than "brother", but the concept is the same except here it is accompanied by a command.

The Samaritans were despised by Jews. They were worse than Gentiles because they held a corrupt form of the Jewish religion and a corrupted scripture. But this Samaritan was the neighbor to whom Jesus told His audience to love as they love themselves.

Anthony D'Arienzo · May 26, 2020

james1:
27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

james5:
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

From Geoff Thomas;

So here James describes the sadly familiar spectacle of a professing brother wandering from the truth. It is an enterprise as full of folly as a man wandering from belief in the law of gravity, or in the solar system, or in the chemical composition of water.

It is very interesting how the New Testament writers speak of the truth. It is never just taken for granted or accepted like a mathematical formula which you have picked up on your way to doing something else. In this clamouring world with all its conflicting ideologies you have been given the truth,
and so you love it (2 Thessalonians 2:10),
obey it (Galatians 5:7),
display it in your life (2 Corinthians 4:2),
speak about it in accents of affection (Ephesians 4:14),
witness to it (John 18:37),
and you do it (John 3:21).
This truth liberates men (John 8:32), and it is manifest in a whole life of love (1 John 3:19). Of course the truth is ultimately Jesus Christ: “I am the truth.” People who once were closely following him can wander from him. It is the love of sin that makes them do it. A man can be married to a woman and be the father of her children, but he can wander from that truth. Children can deny the truth that this senile old woman is their mother and dump her. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth – and it is true! On the third day he rose from the dead according to the Scriptures – and it is true! It is appointed unto men once to die and after that the judgment – and it is true! I will take you unto myself that where I am there you may be also – and it is true – to be lived and done and loved and witnessed to and displayed in our loves. But men can wander from that truth!

Judas wandered from it. Demas wandered from it. Diotrephes wandered from it. Hymenaeus and Philetus wandered from it saying the resurrection is past already.

kcnalp · May 26, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
in Genesis 4:9 we read;
Then the Lord said to Cain,where is Abel your brother?
He said,I do not know.
AM I MY BROTHERS KEEPER?

1] are we our brothers keeper?

2] in what way are we?

3] is this a duty or an option?

4] how much or to what extent do we do this?

5]are there any boundaries to this?

6] do we risk losing fellowship over this issue?

The NT tells us all we need to know how to treat others.

Anthony D'Arienzo · May 26, 2020

kcnalp said:
The NT tells us all we need to know how to treat others.

hello kc,
2] in what way are we?

3] is this a duty or an option?

4] how much or to what extent do we do this?

5]are there any boundaries to this?

6] do we risk losing fellowship over this issue?

Are we our brothers keeper?

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