Justification by Faith

stunnedbygrace · May 26, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
ah well maybe like Job was pious, is what might be meant by "righteous," at times, "self-righteous"

and bigger kids justify their behavior, like that

I dont exactly know what pious means...but Job was a righteous man. God said so. He feared God and, judging by Jobs own words, he cared about others at least as much as he cared about himself. And that's what righteousness is - to fear God and to care about others as much as you care about yourself.

I have been taken with your previous post though ever since I read it. At what point does righteousness maybe become not good...

bbyrd009 · May 26, 2020

stunnedbygrace said:
I dont exactly know what pious means...but Job was a righteous man. God said so. He feared God and, judging by Jobs own words, he cared about others at least as much as he cared about himself. And that's what righteousness is - to fear God and to care about others as much as you care about yourself.

I have been taken with your previous post though ever since I read it. At what point does righteousness maybe become not good...

well, Job went so far as to offer sacrifice for possible sins, and there are commentaries you might consult for a fuller picture. Some even portray Job as a sinner i guess

stunnedbygrace · May 26, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
well, Job went so far as to offer sacrifice for possible sins, and there are commentaries you might consult for a fuller picture. Some even portray Job as a sinner i guess

Of course Job was a sinner. To be righteous does not mean to not be a sinner, otherwise, the sinner who asked God to have mercy on him would not have walked away deemed righteous.

As for offering sacrifice for possible sins, I think thats... smart. Even when I'm not aware of offending God, I pretty much think I must do many things to grieve or offend Him that I'm not yet aware of.

bbyrd009 · May 27, 2020

stunnedbygrace said:
Of course Job was a sinner. To be righteous does not mean to not be a sinner, otherwise, the sinner who asked God to have mercy on him would not have walked away deemed righteous.

ok, but a point is that we get a fairly diff characterization of Job generally speaking in Prot 101 yeh

stunnedbygrace said:
As for offering sacrifice for possible sins, I think thats... smart. Even when I'm not aware of offending God, I pretty much think I must do many things to grieve or offend Him that I'm not yet aware of.

ok but theres probs with that, you are talking about your sins, not others, and "sacrifice" is pagan anyway, at least i'm pretty sure, so imo anyway the whole concept is kinda warped, which im sure is prolly explained in Job's confessions, but danged if i can figure out what he even confessed to myself lol; Job confesses, and Yah comes back with statements that seem to immediately moot his confessions? Basically "I'm sorry i spoke like _____" and then Yah "Job spoke truly" or whatever? And i forget the other confession entirely. Something i've been meaning to spend some time on actually, def a puzzle in there imo. Might even be a lesson in "awareness"

theophilus · May 27, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
your Q tells me that you believe you might go up to heaven after you have died, to become an immortal, yes? I wish you the best of luck in your quest ok

Are you saying you don't believe this? What do you believe does happen to Christians when they die?

bbyrd009 · May 27, 2020

theophilus said:
Are you saying you don't believe this? What do you believe does happen to Christians when they die?

well, i did for about 20-30 years, but then i started reading the Bible without an intermediary, like from scratch, and changed my mind there, i mean No one has ever gone up to heaven, There is only One Immortal, you and your sons will be here with me, even I came that you might have life so to me the evidence just got overwhelming. As to Q2 We do not yet know what we will become, and imo any attempt to improve on that would be divining, and -mancy, stuff fortune-tellers do? Forecasting the future?

bbyrd009 · May 27, 2020

stunnedbygrace said:
I dont exactly know what pious means

outside of the cup squeaky clean, maybe, some false humility maybe involved, just wish Job was a little shorter, there's like 20 chapters there in the middle that just seem to go on and on and i cant discern the point myself. Been meaning to identify all the players symbolically, i know one reps the priesthood, etc, "Job" means "enemy?" or "he who returns?" and the other guys names kinda sorta place them in whatever schools, but i dont get all the seemingly pointless philosophizing in the middle myself

FollowHim · May 27, 2020

charity said:
'But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested,
.. being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
.... Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ
...... unto all and upon all them that believe:
for there is no difference:
.. For all have sinned,
.... and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by His grace
.. through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Whom God hath set forth
.. to be a propitiation through faith in His blood,
.... to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,
...... through the forbearance of God;
To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness:
.. that He might be just,
.... and the justifier of Him which believeth in Jesus.'
(Rom 3:21-26)

Hello there,

The believer is justified 'freely' by God's grace (unmerited favour) through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

David spoke of it: as Paul tells us in Romans 4:6-8:-

'For what saith the scripture?
Abraham believed God,
and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly,
his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man,
unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying,
"Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."'
(Rom 4:3)

It was necessary that sin should be righteously dealt with, and that has been done, in Christ Jesus; but it is the glory of the gospel that the same love that prompted our redemption and our deliverance can provide gratuitously, freely and without cause (except in the great love of God Himself) 'a righteousness of God apart from law.'

Praise God for His wondrous grace!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Amen, it is faith that saves us.

I built a heirarchy of realities

4 Persistence in doing good, following the moral law
3 Circumcision of the heart, a seal of righteousness
2 Faith
1 Christs work, the cross

Christ is our foundation and the cross that brings us forgiveness of sins.
Access to this work is faith, that opens the door to our hearts.
In our hearts the Holy Spirit is deposited and we walk in Christs cleansing and purification as we repent and believe.
The fruit of this work is our persistence in doing good and following the moral law.

We have to see Jesus and what He is saying about us, as we are, sinners lost without direction. Through His work He is prepared to justify us before the Lord so that we can begin to walk in His ways, plugged into His heart and life in the Holy Spirit.

For me the first question is do we have to confess and understand each and every sin in our lives? No.
Jesus forgives it all. It is in this cleansing and purity we can begin to learn His walk as new born children of God.
As all children we will fall over, get hurt, find somethings hard, somethings easy. Because our hearts are changed it is not a burden, it flows from within. It is this question when we find we block of our walk we need to ask why? And then we need Jesus to change our hearts.
I have had my heart changed like this from hurt and retaliation to humbleness and praying in love.
This is where repentance and faith continually is part of everything.

If one thinks there is ever an arriving, even in heaven, you have not grasped the difference between the creator and the created. We will always be limited before the creator, always needing His love and grace. Jesus described the Kingdom of heaven like a vine. We are part of the whole, but it is the flow of His life and His reality that we are part of. In a sense we are an individual expression of the whole, separate yet also part.

Sin always asks the question as the serpent said,

4 You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:4-5

Can we know a way separate from God? God knows the answer eternally is no.
It is the nature of knowledge, without God we are corrupted. We work well within limits, boundaries.
God simply declares honour me and the boundaries and you will prosper. Not that hard, but sinful man wants another way......

17 For it is time for judgement to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
18 And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
19 So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
1 Peter 4:17-19

FollowHim · May 27, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
outside of the cup squeaky clean, maybe, some false humility maybe involved, just wish Job was a little shorter, there's like 20 chapters there in the middle that just seem to go on and on and i cant discern the point myself. Been meaning to identify all the players symbolically, i know one reps the priesthood, etc, "Job" means "enemy?" or "he who returns?" and the other guys names kinda sorta place them in whatever schools, but i dont get all the seemingly pointless philosophizing in the middle myself

Job is a long discussion as to righteousness, blessing and justice.
Job made one mistake. He took his situation as unjust and unfair, that God should deliver him because he was righteous.
Jobs friends said simply Jobs situation was proof he had sinned so should plead to God for forgiveness, because his self justification was evil of itself when they did not find anything else wrong.

Job said if he spoke to God, he would be proved right and God wrong. It was this mistake Job made. Job assumed he understood the situation, and his life demanded blessing rather than Gods grace was to bless not because it was earnt.

When Job realised he had gone too far and not trusted the Lord, he repented.

12 He does not answer when men cry out because of the arrogance of the wicked.
Job 35:12

6 Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes.
Job 42:6

Job talks about his righteous walk, how he abides by good and avoids evil behaviour. He appeals that this is Gods heart, which are all true, and the whole book is about proving Jobs faith in God, which does no waiver, just his sense of injustice.
The book appears so long, because it is trying to cover every argument to suggest why Job is a sinner and his state is because of sin and failure.
This argument is not dissimilar to those who argue believers cannot walk righteously.

The Lord does not rebuke Jobs assertion he was righteous, the whole book is based on God showing Job was righteous and this stood despite being given a distressing illness. In Christ equally we should not expect to know why trouble and persecution come, just that the world is evil and we are called to be lights despite lifes troubles and difficulties.

stunnedbygrace · May 27, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
, but a point is that we get a fairly diff characterization of Job generally speaking in Prot 101 yeh

Yeah, Job is difficult. I have recently spent some time in it myself.

I saw how his friends kept trying to convince him that he must have sinned for God to allow this all to befall him. (That men sin is a given.) And then I recalled, why was this man born blind, because of HIS sins or the sins of his parents? So it's like his friends were saying (not wondering over, not asking) but SAYING as fact, that Job had sinned and God was punishing him. And they spoke wrongly about God, because God was getting Jobs attention and teaching Job. We learn the obedience of trust from the things we suffer.

Job was already WAY more aware than his friends because he knew people could sin in their hearts and not be aware of it. But...it seems to me as if he was egged on by the bad advice and insistence of his friends, combined with so much suffering, to where he began to question God rather than continue to trust God that He was doing and allowing what would prove to be for Jobs good.

Job questioned God in his sufferings, just as we do. Of course we dont see or recognize His care for us until later. We see it only after we come through the trial. And dont get me wrong. I'm pretty sure I would have said worse than Job. Suffering is hard and his suffering came from EVERY direction at once.

We dont choose what we will will suffer in order to learn the obedience of trust. God decides exactly what trials we will meet with. But our trust is precious and He will not withhold from us what is precious.

charity · May 27, 2020

FollowHim said:
Amen, it is faith that saves us.

I built a heirarchy of realities

4 Persistence in doing good, following the moral law
3 Circumcision of the heart, a seal of righteousness
2 Faith
1 Christs work, the cross

Christ is our foundation and the cross that brings us forgiveness of sins.
Access to this work is faith, that opens the door to our hearts.
In our hearts the Holy Spirit is deposited and we walk in Christs cleansing and purification as we repent and believe.
The fruit of this work is our persistence in doing good and following the moral law.

We have to see Jesus and what He is saying about us, as we are, sinners lost without direction. Through His work He is prepared to justify us before the Lord so that we can begin to walk in His ways, plugged into His heart and life in the Holy Spirit.

For me the first question is do we have to confess and understand each and every sin in our lives? No.
Jesus forgives it all. It is in this cleansing and purity we can begin to learn His walk as new born children of God.
As all children we will fall over, get hurt, find somethings hard, somethings easy. Because our hearts are changed it is not a burden, it flows from within. It is this question when we find we block of our walk we need to ask why? And then we need Jesus to change our hearts.
I have had my heart changed like this from hurt and retaliation to humbleness and praying in love.
This is where repentance and faith continually is part of everything.

If one thinks there is ever an arriving, even in heaven, you have not grasped the difference between the creator and the created. We will always be limited before the creator, always needing His love and grace. Jesus described the Kingdom of heaven like a vine. We are part of the whole, but it is the flow of His life and His reality that we are part of. In a sense we are an individual expression of the whole, separate yet also part.

Sin always asks the question as the serpent said,

4 You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.
5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:4-5

Can we know a way separate from God? God knows the answer eternally is no.
It is the nature of knowledge, without God we are corrupted. We work well within limits, boundaries.
God simply declares honour me and the boundaries and you will prosper. Not that hard, but sinful man wants another way......

17 For it is time for judgement to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
18 And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
19 So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
1 Peter 4:17-19

Hello FollowHim,

Thank you for responding. However this thread is about justification by faith. We are justified freely by God's grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. I just want to rejoice in that glorious fact.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Behold · May 27, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
work to make your calling and election sure though, so maybe hold on to the one and dont let go of the other or something?

We don't make anything sure. We don't complete anything. Salvation is a Gift.
Are you on the Cross? Are you able to pay for your sin? If you are, then you can make your election sure....But unless you are Jesus, then give up trying to be the One who is in charge of your redemption.
Stay away from that type of self righteousness.

"God who began salvation in the BORN AGAIN, will HIMSELF be Faithful to COMPLETE IT".

There is your "election"... there is your "Grace"...... Its all of God. He is The One who came down here, and died on a Cross to bring you back in to His family.
So, dont make the mistake of trying to insert YOURSELF into that, or you are actually denying God and Christ the full credit do them for what they did for you.

amadeus · May 27, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
ok, but a point is that we get a fairly diff characterization of Job generally speaking in Prot 101 yeh
ok but theres probs with that, you are talking about your sins, not others, and "sacrifice" is pagan anyway, at least i'm pretty sure, so imo anyway the whole concept is kinda warped, which im sure is prolly explained in Job's confessions, but danged if i can figure out what he even confessed to myself lol; Job confesses, and Yah comes back with statements that seem to immediately moot his confessions? Basically "I'm sorry i spoke like _____" and then Yah "Job spoke truly" or whatever? And i forget the other confession entirely. Something i've been meaning to spend some time on actually, def a puzzle in there imo. Might even be a lesson in "awareness"

One thing that struck me and stuck with me a long time ago about Job was this verse:

"Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him." Job 13:15

On the one hand he is trusting in God but in that same verse he intends to maintain his own ways. Maintaining our own way, even ways developed through our Bible studies and learned from our anointed preachers can get us in trouble. They can be equivalent to that problem with Nehushtan. Jesus clarifies that He is the Way. In the OT Job may not have known the name, Jesus, but He did know God in a measure... yet this standing in his own ways is, or should be, a problem for anyone in the OT [like David who certainly followed his own ways after Bethsheba] or in the NT [like Peter who assured Jesus he would die rather than deny].

Getting away from our own ways and into His Way is vital to any man truly seeking what?

At the end Job came to understand that he would be better off if he kept his mouth shut:

"Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further." Job 40:4-5

FollowHim · May 27, 2020

Behold said:
We don't make anything sure. We don't complete anything. Salvation is a Gift.
Are you on the Cross? Are you able to pay for your sin? If you are, then you can make your election sure....But unless you are Jesus, then give up trying to be the One who is in charge of your redemption.
Stay away from that type of self righteousness.

"God who began salvation in the BORN AGAIN, will HIMSELF be Faithful to COMPLETE IT".

There is your "election"... there is your "Grace"...... Its all of God. He is The One who came down here, and died on a Cross to bring you back in to His family.
So, dont make the mistake of trying to insert YOURSELF into that, or you are actually denying God and Christ the full credit do them for what they did for you.

A groom desires intimacy, oneness with their bride. The job Christ started was the purchase of a people for His own.
The privilege of this is becoming like Jesus, because it is Jesus who has placed us in this place and asked us to follow.
To not follow is to deny all He has done, to undo the gift of grace and love, to trample on the cross and say it does not open the gates of heaven so we can walk in as His Holy redeemed people.

Job knew he was righteous and God did not deny this. God questioned whether Job understood his situation, the reason for his suffering. So you have got it wrong about righteousness, it is our calling, our inheritence, our redemption, washed and cleansed, filled with the Spirit to learn to walk in His ways, to put on the full armour of God and to fight the enemy and the spiritual powers and principalities that stand in our way.

Praise the Lord, He gives us the victory, Amen.

Behold · May 27, 2020

FollowHim said:
A groom desires intimacy, oneness with their bride. The job Christ started was the purchase of a people for His own.
The privilege of this is becoming like Jesus, because it is Jesus who has placed us in this place and asked us to follow.
To not follow is to deny all He has done, to undo the gift of grace and love, to trample on the cross
Job knew he was righteous and God did not deny this. God questioned whether Job understood his situation, the reason for his suffering. So you have got it wrong about righteousness, it is our calling, our inheritence, our redemption, washed and cleansed
.

Listen....you are quoting Hebrews Chapter 4 & 6 and misrepresenting the verses. Those verses that talk about "crucifying the Lord afresh", and "sinning willfully", and "trodding underfoot the blood of Jesus", (KJV) that you are trying to swap out here in your effort to teach the gospel of works are not going to work.

Here is what you are not understanding, FollowHim.

Listen carefully, as you're not going to learn this in your church or from your set of commentaries...ok?
Listen.
Salvation.....whereby we are REDEEMED, .... starts finished.
Salvation STARTS....Finished.
Ok? Let me explain...... Salvation is not what we DO.....Its what we RECEIVED. Salvation is only one work... Its This... "Its the FINISHED WORK of Jesus on the Cross"... You do not do that.....HE did that.. He gets all the credit for His shed blood, death, and resurrection. You get none. ZERO.
So, what you are caught up in, is the misunderstanding of this verse....>"Work out your salvation in awe and reverence".
You are reading that verse to mean to you...>"keep yourself saved by your self effort, by your abiding, by your obedience, by your repenting".
Thats your theology... and its nothing but bondage. Total bondage.

So, how do you escape this type of self righteous bondage to the idea that your salvation, that the Blood Atonement, is only as good as you are ??
See, thats your faith. Your faith is....>"Im saved as long as i DO That". or "im saved as long as i DONT DO THAT".
This is the error of Legalism.. This is the false gospel of "works to stay saved", and you are preaching it. That is Galatians 1:8

So, here......Think. Salvation, is "the gift of righteousness". Its the reality that the born again start out complete "in Christ". There is no further righteousness that we can achieve, as we never achieved it to begin with... It was given to us as "the gift of Righteousness"... So, we are "the righteousness of God , In Christ"... the moment we are saved as this never changes. The same blood of Jesus that saved us, is the same blood that keeps us saved. The same righteousness of God that we are become, "in Christ" is the same we will be when we get our new body.

So, what is our part? Our part is DISCIPLESHIP.....Our part is learning how to live...= how to exist in the GRACE OF GOD, so that we spiritually inwardly mature in this place of Grace as we discover how to walk in a perfected discipleship. That is our daily walk, our daily Discipleship.
It has no effect on what the Blood Atonement has created us to be from the FIRST...., which is..."ONE" with God and Christ.

Every second of our life, after we are born again, we exist as "the righteousness of God in Christ".
Every second of our born again life, we are this.. """""as Jesus IS, so are the born again IN THIS WORLD"."""

We are always born again... We are always Saved.. We always have peace with God....We are always kept saved by the Blood of Jesus.

Our part is to learn how to exist as "walking in the Spirit"....in the "mind of Christ".
And we do this by Right Believing.
When we believe wrong, we live wrong.
When we believe right, we live right...= righteously.

FollowHim · May 27, 2020

Behold said:
Listen....you are quoting Hebrews Chapter 4 & 6 and misrepresenting the verses. Those verses that talk about "crucifying the Lord afresh", and "sinning willfully", and "trodding underfoot the blood of Jesus", (KJV) that you are trying to swap out here in your effort to teach the gospel of works are not going to work.

Here is what you are not understanding, FollowHim.

Listen carefully, as you're not going to learn this in your church or from your set of commentaries...ok?
Listen.
Salvation.....whereby we are REDEEMED, .... starts finished.
Salvation STARTS....Finished.
Ok? Let me explain...... Salvation is not what we DO.....Its what we RECEIVED. Salvation is only one work... Its This... "Its the FINISHED WORK of Jesus on the Cross"... You do not do that.....HE did that.. He gets all the credit for His shed blood, death, and resurrection. You get none. ZERO.
So, what you are caught up in, is the misunderstanding of this verse....>"Work out your salvation in awe and reverence".
You are reading that verse to mean to you...>"keep yourself saved by your self effort, by your abiding, by your obedience, by your repenting".
Thats your theology... and its nothing but bondage. Total bondage.

So, how do you escape this type of self righteous bondage to the idea that your salvation, that the Blood Atonement, is only as good as you are ??
See, thats your faith. Your faith is....>"Im saved as long as i DO That". or "im saved as long as i DONT DO THAT".
This is the error of Legalism.. This is the false gospel of "works to stay saved", and you are preaching it. That is Galatians 1:8

So, here......Think. Salvation, is "the gift of righteousness". Its the reality that the born again start out complete "in Christ". There is no further righteousness that we can achieve, as we never achieved it to begin with... It was given to us as "the gift of Righteousness"... So, we are "the righteousness of God , In Christ"... the moment we are saved as this never changes. The same blood of Jesus that saved us, is the same blood that keeps us saved. The same righteousness of God that we are become, "in Christ" is the same we will be when we get our new body.

So, what is our part? Our part is DISCIPLESHIP.....Our part is learning how to live...= how to exist in the GRACE OF GOD, so that we spiritually inwardly mature in this place of Grace as we discover how to walk in a perfected discipleship. That is our daily walk, our daily Discipleship.
It has no effect on what the Blood Atonement has created us to be from the FIRST...., which is..."ONE" with God and Christ.

Every second of our life, after we are born again, we exist as "the righteousness of God in Christ".
Every second of our born again life, we are this.. """""as Jesus IS, so are the born again IN THIS WORLD"."""

We are always born again... We are always Saved.. We always have peace with God....We are always kept saved by the Blood of Jesus.

Our part is to learn how to exist as "walking in the Spirit"....in the "mind of Christ".
And we do this by Right Believing.
When we believe wrong, we live wrong.
When we believe right, we live right...= righteously.

I get your belief you are right and others are wrong. Do you actually believe in grace or is it just an idea, and if someone says something you do not like, they are just wrong?

I suggested one idea, just one idea, not two or three, not bondage or everything else you have described.
The idea is this

To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 3:21

Now who is the one who overcomes? It is not Jesus, because He has overcome. So the test is will the believer overcome. But in your theology there is no overcoming, we have got it all now. Except that means your lampstand will be taken away and you will be caste out.

So there is your dilemma. If we have to do nothing, why are we called to learn, to listen, to obey, to build, to follow, to work, to change, to be transformed, to put on the full armour of God etc. Scripture is so full of action to follow a passive faith is simply not Christian. It is why christians were known for the protestant work ethic. God expects us to work for Him in all we do, Amen.

Ezra · May 27, 2020

your both arguing about the same thing . some of the wording is different .our righteousness is Jesus Christ what he done for us. the act of justification .he then sanctifies us to be come holy we are to grow in the grace and knowledge . we are a W. I .P

mjrhealth · May 28, 2020

FollowHim said:
get your belief you are right and others are wrong.

Lot of that going around, I read the bible I study, I quote Scripture. I do, good thing Grace is freely given and not a debt imposed on mankind because we could never repay it even if we had eternity to do it. Its a good thing Jesus ensured we understood,

Mar_11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

its enough for Him

Heb_11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

bbyrd009 · May 28, 2020

Behold said:
We don't make anything sure. We don't complete anything.

ah well i guess not according to that Bible verse though eh

Behold said:
Salvation is a Gift.

well dont take this wrong ok but apparently so is common sense

i mean, you feel comfortable just negating a v like that, no Support or anything?

Behold said:
Are you on the Cross?

yup, pick up your cross and follow Me see, although i would prolly never testify of myself in this manner irl, but yes i have some grasp of yielding, surrender, etc i think anyway

Behold said:
Are you able to pay for your sin?

sure, why not, i am not under the law; can i confess my sins might be a better Q, if you wanna dwell on sin though? But ive paid plenty for my sins i guess.

Ppl who are not interested or avoid paying for their sins we consider them to be in denial, right? Wont confess or even admit to a sin? Which i dont know, but anymore i feel like i have failed if i even have to admit to a sin, rather than having confessed it first

Behold said:
If you are, then you can make your election sure....But unless you are Jesus, then give up trying to be the One who is in charge of your redemption.
Stay away from that type of self righteousness.

ok no offense, and i guess you even have a valid point to make in a diff context, but for now ima work to make your calling and election sure

"God who began salvation in the BORN AGAIN, will HIMSELF be Faithful to COMPLETE IT".

ah well maybe thats it, maybe im not born again yet

anyway, i would not disagree with this v, but then i also would not claim to be born again, but tbh i dont think that matters either, bc who knows right? But i certainly accept that while i still make the plans, Yah directs the steps though, sure

There is your "election"... there is your "Grace"...... Its all of God. He is The One who came down here, and died on a Cross to bring you back in to His family.
So, dont make the mistake of trying to insert YOURSELF into that, or you are actually denying God and Christ the full credit do them for what they did for you.

work while it is day, for the night is coming, when no man can work

maybe since we're here and all you could address that one, along with
For all must come before the judgement seat of Christ, to be judged for their works done while...
and we could maybe see where the disconnect is

Matthew 21:28 "But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard."
Matthew 21:29 "He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went."
Matthew 21:30 "And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not."
Matthew 21:31 "Whether of them twain did the will of his father?
pardon the archaic dialect if you would, ripped this off from 101g

bbyrd009 · May 28, 2020

amadeus said:
One thing that struck me and stuck with me a long time ago about Job was this verse:

"Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him." Job 13:15

On the one hand he is trusting in God but in that same verse he intends to maintain his own ways. Maintaining our own way, even ways developed through our Bible studies and learned from our anointed preachers can get us in trouble. They can be equivalent to that problem with Nehushtan. Jesus clarifies that He is the Way. In the OT Job may not have known the name, Jesus, but He did know God in a measure... yet this standing in his own ways is, or should be, a problem for anyone in the OT [like David who certainly followed his own ways after Bethsheba] or in the NT [like Peter who assured Jesus he would die rather than deny].

Getting away from our own ways and into His Way is vital to any man truly seeking what?

At the end Job came to understand that he would be better off if he kept his mouth shut:

"Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further." Job 40:4-5

boy, that is subtle, but i guess that might be a pivotal v there, yeh

i def tried to help Yah quite a bit as a raging Codependent, and i guess it def had to be "my way" then lol. But is it like that for me now? It sure could be, in a heartbeat, not gonna lie

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