Can God sin?

naomi · Sep 7, 2009

I was having a conversation with a non Christian friend and she was asking about whether God could sin or not. and if God could sin whether that would mean he was not all powerful.I didn't really know what to say to her as I wasn';t sure on the issue myself so I wanted to ask what people's ideas were on this?Thanks for the help!!

GBNaomix

Brother Mike · Sep 7, 2009

naomi. God gives us things that he considers sin. Murdering someone is a sin, stealing is a sin. These are listed as sins in the Bible.A very large portion of Christians believe that God does sin by his own standards.For example, I heard a Someone say that God used a tornado to crush their house, so that they can learn to appreciate what they have and trust God more. One time at Church, a good family that attended Church had died in a car crash. Our Pastor said that the Lord took them home early, and that we can always understand why. What the Pastor, really meant to say is that God murdered them in Cold blood, and if we don't like it, to bad!!! God can murder who he feels like. So, naomi. It's a hard question to answer, and most won't answer honestly. The Pastor that told me that God murdered that family with a car crash, would never, never admit that God breaks his own word and commits sin. "Thou shalt do no Murder." IN other words, they would lie to you and think it's OK to blame God for something God told us not to do. God is a hypocrite according to thier doctrine.The Truth is, God is not the murderer, but Satan is, and God is not sending Satan to murder good Christians, despit how some misread Job. It's the thief that came to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10) Not God. Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. God has never sinned, and has never done wrong to anyone. If you don't know God, then your in the hands of the devil, and He is the one that kills, steals and destroy. So I would tell you friend, that they need God. Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Not having God on your side in this World, is not good. Just look around you.Jesus Is Lord

gumby · Sep 7, 2009

God is perfect therfor he has not can not and will not sin. Matthew 5:48 documents that god is perfect.

Benoni · Sep 7, 2009

Sin is a human issue; not a divine issue. God is God. Death came by God and the curse be it spiritual or literal. God is sovereign over all things. Nothing happens out side of the will of God.

Tombstone · Sep 7, 2009

"Can God sin?"This is what this board is reduced to? Can God sin?Like the guy who asked me if God was able to create a rock that even he couldn't lift.Fluff and distraction.Jesus is returning soon. S-O-O-N.Surely there are more pressing issues Christians should be discussing than this.

Benoni · Sep 7, 2009

Agreed to a point. But then again this may not be a pressing issue to you but it was to namnoi. In my Father's house our many mansions.

Tombstone;72551 said:
"Can God sin?"This is what this board is reduced to? Can God sin?Like the guy who asked me if God was able to create a rock that even he couldn't lift.Fluff and distraction.Jesus is returning soon. S-O-O-N.Surely there are more pressing issues Christians should be discussing than this.

Brother Mike · Sep 7, 2009

Tombstone

Surely there are more pressing issues Christians should be discussing than this.

As Benoni said. This was a issue with someone that does not know God thatnaomi knows.Tombstone, you know how silly the unsaved can be when it comes to spiritual things. So Naomi was wanting help to answer the question.

Tombstone · Sep 7, 2009

Fair enough, but I would wonder about the motive of the question.The answer isn't really isn't a difficult one, regardless of the place you are at as a Christian.God is perfect, yes?If He is perfect then by his very nature he cannot sin.If sin is evil and God could sin, the implication is that our God is capable of evil. If our God is capable of evil, how could He EVER be fully trusted?The simple answer? God cannot go against who He is. Period.

Benoni · Sep 7, 2009

This is true, and I agree God is not evil... But God controls all evil.

Tombstone · Sep 7, 2009

Benoni;72564]This is true said:
Okay, I'll bite.What has that got to do with the topic at hand?Or let me put it another way:What has that got to do with the fact that God is perfect and by that very definition he is incapable of sinning?Translations: What has that point got to do with the price of tea in China?

Benoni · Sep 7, 2009

You speak of God's nature being only good?My point is God is sovereign over evil. Evil, calamity same thing.Exodus 4:21And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.Amos 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (KJV)1 Sam 16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.(KJV)1 Sam 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the (KJV)

Tombstone · Sep 7, 2009

Understood the point.Still waiting to hear what it has to do with the question, "Does God sin?"

Deadwheat1224 · Sep 7, 2009

Well obviously sin is evil, and any discussion of sin should necessarily discuss evil as in many ways they are synonomous. Therefore, if God controls evil... God controls sin does he not? Please correct me if I'm wrong... but it sounds as though this goes back to the question about whether or not God can lead one to sin.For the record... I believe God cannot sin and cannot lead any to sin, but allows sin to happen for a greater good (which in some sense is controlling, but not in the strict sense). IMHO.Good Luck,

Tombstone · Sep 7, 2009

"For the record... I believe God cannot sin and cannot lead any to sin, but allows sin to happen for a greater good " - Deadwheat- I would say that sums it up nicely.Is God perfect? Yes.Is God pure? Yes.Both of those preclude the ability to sin.

Brother Mike · Sep 7, 2009

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. God is not allowing sin for a greater purpose. All sin leads to death, and nothing good comes from sin. NOTHING!!!!If sin was for a greater purpose that works Good, this World would be in great shape!!!God makes a way to escape all temptation. One way is what the next verse describes.1Co 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. Thats it, turn around and run!!!!

epistemaniac · Sep 7, 2009

God's NOT doing something does not mean He is not omnipotent... God cannot lie, He cannot say that a circle is a square... but God's not being able to do something that is contrary to His nature simply does not mitigate against His omnipotence... the same goes for the question "can God make a rock so big He can't lift it?" ... if so, the atheist might say, then it means He is not omnipotent... but this is a linguistic game... and is not a valid objection at all.... and this does not limit God's omnipotence any more than His not being able to lie... God's being omnipotent means that God can do anything that is consistent with the kind of being that He is...from the Christian thinktank:"About the question "Can God make a rock so big he cannot pick it up?" as a problem for a view of God as omnipotent... Couple of points here... First, Omnipotence has historically been understood as the ability to perform any task consistent with His character and essence. (At least that's the classical definition/understanding of it). This would exclude 'things' like... Re his character: It is impossible for God to lie (He actually is the one who told us this in the scriptures).It is impossible for God to break an promise.It is impossible for God to deny his existence and character (tantamount to lying, of course). Re his essence: It is impossible for him to split into two essences (a la cell division).It is impossible for him to will himself out of existence. (These above statements are beyond the scope of this email.)Secondly, there are some things that we can build pseudo-sentences about, that actually don't end up being 'tasks'...some can be quite comical... "Can God make this question into a declarative sentence?""Can God change the subject of this sentence to 'jello'?""Can God make this sentence so long that he cannot read it?""Can God make the slithy toves gyre and gimble in the wabe?"(for any fellow Alice-in-Wonderland-Enthusiasts out there!) These 'sentences' seem odd to us, for they look like regular sentences, but they have what philosophers of language call 'ungrammaticality' (cf.Language and Reality--An Introduction to the Philosophy of Language, by Michael Devitt & Kim Sterelny, MIT Press, pps.89-92). Then there is another class of sentences in which grammaticality is present, but there are improper referents and relations, similar to the linguists' favorite: "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously". These sentences (and any questions based upon them like "Do colorless green ideas sleep furiously?") are said to have no truth value (neither true nor false)--they just don't have any meaning to BE true or false. It is into this category that the following sentences/questions fit: God can make a square circle.(and the Q-version of it: Can God make a square circle?)God can make colorless green ideas sleep furiously.God can make a rock so big it turns into a peach.God can make a rock so invisible that it casts a shadow 2 parsecs long! It is in this category that the famous "God can make a rock so big he cannot lift it" fits. As a 'sentence' it actually has no meaning, and hence is neither true nor false."blessings,ken

Tombstone · Sep 7, 2009

So, getting back to the main topic of this thread: "Can God sin?"The answer is no.

Deadwheat1224 · Sep 7, 2009

Brother Mike;72584][B]1Co 10:13[/B] There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful said:
1Co 10:14[/B] Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. Thats it, turn around and run!!!!

If God doesn't make good come from evil, then why does he allow sin to occur? Free-will? I can agree with that. But wouldn't an almighty, all-loving God bring life from even death?This can, in my opinion, be seen in natural disasters. From floods, Tsunami's, hurricanes, and earthquakes, we see the compassion of human nature. It is unfortunate, but primarily through the struggling of mankind we see the unity and loves that bind us. Yes, sin is evil, but God because in some sense he controls evil, can make Good come from it, even though he is not the cause.Romans 8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Why cannot this not include suffering? Suffering brings us closer to God, and yet it is caused by the evil of another, or sometimes even ourselves. Thus, though it is ideal to never sin, God makes good come from it.... Did not the sin of Judas (though not a good act in any way) bring about the salvation of mankind? I repeat, the sin itself was horrible, but God brought good from the evil.

Brother Mike · Sep 8, 2009

DeathWheat1224

But wouldn't an almighty, all-loving God bring life from even death?

Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions. He does!!! He spends way to much time fixing our mess, and the devils. He is not creating the mess though.

Why cannot this not include suffering? Suffering brings us closer to God

Not to get into much detail. The scripture says draw neigh to God and he will draw nigh to you. It said nothing about having to suffer. Suffering can have the effect of people finding God, but it is out of necessity. Suffering is not a good way to bring people to God though, if it was, then most of this world would be saved. There is a place where Paul turned someone over to Satan because of sin. The man slept with his step mother or real mother. Paul turned him over to Satan so that He would be destroyed, and the Spirit saved. The man latter repented though (Got closer to God because Satan is rough without God's protection.) (1Cor 5:1-)It was not God's Will the man commit the sin. Suffering is not designed to bring anyone closer to God, though the smart ones seek God. Suffering was designed to kill you and is part of the curse of the Law.Deu 28:61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed. Deu 28:22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. So, every sickness, every disease, every swelling, inflammation, mildew, ETC is part of the curse of the Law. It was not designed to teach anyone anything, or bring anyone closer to God. It was designed to KILL............ (READ the whole chapter of Deut 28. Don't worry though...........Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Jesus Is Lord

Stumpmaster · Sep 8, 2009

naomi;72544]I was having a conversation with a non Christian friend and she was asking about whether God could sin or not. and if God could sin whether that would mean he was not all powerful. I didn said:
I hope and pray that your friend comes to know the Lord Jesus Christ as her sinless Saviour' date=' and that she realises the significance of these Scriptures:[COLOR=#008080'][/COLOR] 2Co 6:14-18(14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?(15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?(16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.(17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,(18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. Elsewhere in the Christian Scriptures, Paul and various other authors state unequivocally that Jesus was without sin: 2 Corinthians 5:21: "For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." Hebrews 4:15: "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." 1 Peter 2:21-22: "...because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow His steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth." 1John 3:5: "And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin." Hebrews 7:26-28: The author refers to Jesus: "For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this He did once, when He offered up Himself." Take care.

Can God sin?

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