There is no rapture

gumby · Sep 14, 2009

Hi there fellow christians i want to warn yall guys if a little fly away myth known as the rapture. Dont waste your time with it because its not in the bible, never has been never will be. God is against fly away theroies Ezekiel 13:20. I dont mean to cause any christian to stumble but dont waste your time with mens false traditions. I love all of yall and so does god thats why gods against the rapture is because he loves each and evry one of you and doest want one single sheep to be mislead from the shepherd. God bless

mjrhealth · Sep 14, 2009

Glad you spoke up, how will they be ready if they dont know.In His LOve

Martin W. · Sep 14, 2009

gumby;72820]Hi there fellow christians i want to warn yall guys if a little fly away myth known as the rapture. Dont waste your time with it because its not in the bible said:
Gumby.The bible clearly tells us of a future rapture of living christians.It is the timing of it that is uncertain.I have never heard the term "fly away theories" except when used by a couple of people here.Using the phrases "doctrines of men" "or "men's false traditions" is not a good theological argument. We are much better to learn and employ systematic theology before we men begin to form our own doctrines.Martin W.

mjrhealth · Sep 14, 2009

The rapture is false doctrine , but the stroy of the vrigins at the wedding should be understood. Many christians that have empty lamps.In His Love

gumby · Sep 14, 2009

Martin W.;72824 said:
Gumby. The bible clearly tells us of a future rapture of living christians. It is the timing of it that is uncertain. I have never heard the term "fly away theories" except when used by a couple of people here. Using the phrases "doctrines of men" "or "men's false traditions" is not a good theological argument. We are much better to learn and employ systematic theology before we men begin to form our own doctrines. Martin W.

Its not my word being spoken here, i use the bible as my basis for evidence. Psalm 91:3 and Psalm 124:7. Name me one verse that mentions the word rapture in the bible, also where do you think that satins little children fly to......well in satins eyes they fly up to heaven along with gods other children but infact they just want to take gods seat just like the old king of pride himself. Im glad that others here realize the truth and i love you all. God bless

WhiteKnuckle · Sep 14, 2009

I certainly don't see any scripture that says we'll be taken out before. There's a bunch of holes in the Rapture doctrine. If people never ever heard of this idea and read the bible, they would see no rapture. Now, I'm not against the Lord revealing "new" things in latter days. As there are prophecy or word that is still sealed up. But, I believe the "new" things are explainations of what's going on. Admittedly there are a couple scriptures that sometimes make me wonder if there is going to be a rapture. But, all in all, Scripture interprets scripture, precept upon precept, here a little there a little. That means we can take God's words and the things that happened all together in one solitary word. If there was a rapture, then Jesus would've warned about it. The Lord repeats his warnings of the end so many times, Even from the OT, and several times in the NT. Each and every one of them say the exact same thing! It is a good fuzzy feeling to think,, When all hell breaks loose we'll just be zapped out of here. It's a good fuzzy feeling to think the Lord wont ever put hardship on his followers. But, fact of the matter is,, We are promised suffering, but only for a time, we are promised to be tested through fire. The only thing, We are not appointed to God's wrath, because of the sacrifice Jesus made for us! Going "through" tribulations is not the same as recieving God's wrath. What get's me most is, Jesus said, "It will be like the days of Noah" Well, Noah had to work and build a boat, while everyone laughed at him, and rediculed him. No doubt He tried to reach people to get them to repent, and appeal to the Lord for their salvation. But, right up to the flood, they were eating and drinking, and doing what ever, thinking nothing is going to happen. Then the flood came. But, noah wasn't whisked away so He wouldn't see people being whiped out. He was still on the earth, but protected in a vessel designed by God, and bult buy work, and suffering.

Deadwheat1224 · Sep 14, 2009

Thank you for this thread! This is something that people become more aware of. "Rapture" comes from the Latin "Rapio" which literally means to be"caught up". I believe most people get it from the passage in Matthew where it says one person will be taken up and one will be left behind. In mainstream Theological Fiction it is most ardently shown in the "Left Behind" series.Its interesting to note that this term didn't come into wide usage until the early 1700's (Quite a while after Christ

). I also know it can take many forms such as dispensationalism and amillenialism....The point is its a very complex and alive theory, but really has very little biblical and systematical theological evidence...For the record, the Bible talks of the "Parousia" never the Rapture.

watchman · Sep 14, 2009

gumby;72820]Hi there fellow christians i want to warn yall guys if a little fly away myth known as the rapture. Dont waste your time with it because its not in the bible said:
I agree and disagree with you. You are right the pretrib rapture is a myth and we need to let them no this so that they can prepare themselves for the tribulation period. However the even called the rapture will take place (when the living are changed into their heavenly bodies at the return of Christ) but this happen at the post trib 2nd coming not before the tribulation starts.

Deadwheat1224 · Sep 14, 2009

watchman;72855 said:
I agree and disagree with you. You are right the pretrib rapture is a myth and we need to let them no this so that they can prepare themselves for the tribulation period. However the even called the rapture will take place (when the living are changed into their heavenly bodies at the return of Christ) but this happen at the post trib 2nd coming not before the tribulation starts.

True... but the term "rapture" itself is incorrect. Rather the terms "parousia" or even "2nd coming" should be used (in my opinion).

gumby · Sep 14, 2009

watchman;72855 said:
I agree and disagree with you. You are right the pretrib rapture is a myth and we need to let them no this so that they can prepare themselves for the tribulation period. However the even called the rapture will take place (when the living are changed into their heavenly bodies at the return of Christ) but this happen at the post trib 2nd coming not before the tribulation starts.

You are reffering to 1st Thessalonians 4:17, now that verse is 100% true concerning people who are still alive when christ returns. But focus here on 1st Thessalonians 4:13 concerning where the dead are.

Christina · Sep 14, 2009

One of My favorite study's on Eze. 13:20 ................>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; 'Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly." Have you ever wondered what God thinks of your fly-away doctrine? Here it is. God said, Behold, wake up, I am against your false doctrines [pillows], wherewith ye hunt the souls to make them fly.Did you get that, God is against it when you go out to teach the souls of men and women and tell they they are going to fly out of here. Those that you have hunted with your whitewashed religion, and told them that they will fly out and not see the time of the end. You have told them not to prepare for the Antichrist, and that the signs of the times of the entire Bible were not important. IT IS A LIE, brother, and God will judge you severely for that lie. wake up. Jesus in the parable, from the mount of Olives, in Matthew 24; woe to that woman that is first take. Then He commands us, "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come" [verse 42]. We are to pay attention to the times we are in, there is no excuse to rely on fairy-tales, when we can know the times and signs.the fly away doctrine never came into existence until 1830, and then by a mental ill woman, Margaret McDonald. You would think that most people would be intelligent enough that they could see through these fairy-tales. Jesus didn't teach it, John, Paul, nor Peter taught it. If you are relying on the Books of Thessalonians, you had better get back to the original text.When you rely on I Thessalonians 4:15 to the end, and rely on that to back up the fly away doctrine, you have missed the entire meaning of the book. For in 4:13 it tells you what Paul is explaining to the Christians at the Thessalonians Church. the whole chapter is talking about where are the dead, those who died and are buried in the ground.I Thessalonians 4:13; "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep [dead], that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."I Thessalonians 4:14; "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep [die physical death] in Jesus will God bring with him." If you are a Christian, you had better believe that Christ rose from the dead, or you are no better then the heathen that believe that when a person dies they are still out there in a hole in the ground. It is real sad that what is taught through is divination. God told us in Ezekiel 13:17; "Set thy face against the daughters [suppose to be the bride of Christ] of they people, ...and prophesy thou against them," are we to keep quiet and let them go unanswered? no. For those who think their can be a compromise with them, and becoming as they are, playing with eternal death.Do you really think God meant something else when He made His hatred of this so strong?If you are so bound up in this fly-away doctrine that you can't see past it, then you are in danger of taking the Mark of the beast already. That mark of the beast is not just some electronic gadget, but also what is fixed in your mind, your knowledge, your imaginations, and what you place your eternal soul in.As you must take a pledge to Antichrist that you belive he is the christ What God is saying is that part of Mark of the Beast is this rapture doctrine. Why? If you have been trained to believe that the first "Messiah", and you haven't been trained that the first Messiah is the false Messiah, then you are prepared to receive the first Christ as Jesus Christ. With all the wonders and deceptions Satan will bring with him, you will bow to him immediately. This doctrine of the rapture is taught more in the houses of America, then in any other land, and god doesn't like it.Ezekiel 13:21 "Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My People out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord."Why does God keep saying, "and ye shall know that I am the Lord."? Because you keep mixing up the false Messiah with Him. Ezekiel 13:22 "Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:"Because of the lies of the rapture doctrine that was started by a mentally disturbed woman in 1830, it is sad when you think of those souls of people that are placing their eternal soul in the very doctrine that will in the end condemn their soul. Friend, that is sad. Through this fly away doctrine, you are strengthening the hands of the wicked one, and he is Satan. You promise those souls that there is a fly-away, an easy way out; you don't need to pay attention to the signs of the times, you will be taken away anyway; that is how you condemn him, "by promising him life", when there is only death. Ezekiel 13:23 "Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver My People out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the Lord."During the Millennium age, that crowd will teach no more. Though they call themselves minister, teachers, and priests, God will remove them from the assemble. God is telling you and I to teach against those that teach people to fly to save their souls. How much clearer can you get. The word Rapture is not in the Bible, but the diviners of this demonic doctrine have coined this word to give you a crutch for these end times. It is time to get back to the basics of our Fathers Word, and learn it for yourselves. Then when these diviners come along, and say peace peace, and their fly-away doctrine, and other doctrines of demons you can stand your ground on the foundation of God's holy Word.......................

watchman · Sep 14, 2009

watchman;72855]I agree and disagree with you. You are right the pretrib rapture is a myth and we need to let them no this so that they can prepare themselves for the tribulation period. However the even called the rapture will take place (when the living are changed into their heavenly bodies at the return of Christ) but this happen at the post trib 2nd coming not before the tribulation starts.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=gumby;72860]You are reffering to 1st Thessalonians 4:17 said:
I agree 100%, the point of 1st Thess 4:13-18 is the resurrection of the dead, that is our blessed hope not the rapture or catching away of those that survive the Tribulation, but the fact remains that the living will be caught away when Christ returns after the dead are raised.

watchman · Sep 14, 2009

Deadwheat1224;72857 said:
True... but the term "rapture" itself is incorrect. Rather the terms "parousia" or even "2nd coming" should be used (in my opinion).

The thing is there are many events that occur at the 2nd coming. and one of them is the gathering of the living saints that is called the rapture, among other such as the resurrection of the just, and destruction of the wicked.

Tombstone · Sep 15, 2009

Christina;72863]One of My favorite study said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...[/I]Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; 'Behold' date=' I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly." Have you ever wondered what God thinks of your fly-away doctrine? Here it is. God said, Behold, wake up, I am against your false doctrines [pillows'], wherewith ye hunt the souls to make them fly.Did you get that, God is against it when you go out to teach the souls of men and women and tell they they are going to fly out of here. Those that you have hunted with your whitewashed religion, and told them that they will fly out and not see the time of the end. You have told them not to prepare for the Antichrist, and that the signs of the times of the entire Bible were not important. IT IS A LIE, brother, and God will judge you severely for that lie. wake up. ........................I must say Christina, I am disappointed.Let me ask you, if that tone was taken by someone else towards you, would you be willing to listen to what they have to say? Would you be open to correction? Did someone here strike that tone with you first?Would you even tolerate someone here talking to you that way, warning you that God will judge you severely for a lie that you believe in your heart to be true, using big red letters to make their point?If this is how you speak to other Christians with whom you disagree, I wonder what tone you strike when speaking with non-believers. I again say (respectfully) that I disagree the idea that Ez. 13:20 is specifically about those who speak on the rapture. I see it as a stretch at best. I laid out the specific reasons why and to date no one has said that the facts pointed out are wrong...just the conclusion from those facts. But no one has said why."Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly." -- Ez. 13:20Again, in reading the entire chapter you see that the 'pillows' are more literal than a single selected verse out of that chapter lets on. In verse 18 it talks about, "Woe to the women who so magic charmes on all their wrists and make veils of various lengths for their heads in order to ensnare people."THAT to me implies that what is being said in verse 20 address specifically what was said in verse 18.If you read 18, 19, and 20 together you get: "And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly."-- If you read it in that context, it seems to support your point even less.There were false prophets AT THAT TIME doing this. Making spectacular claims. And the charms/amulets/etc. were what they stated AT THAT TIME gave them the power to do it.Brother Mike spoke in his 11:41am post yesterday about the Hebrew definition of "Pillows" and what they were used for during that specific time in history. In essence, God is talking about an actual event at that time. I have read studies by people who I have seen God's hand on - people who have made a life's work out of studying The Word, and admit that God continues to show them new things even after several decades - say that this verse has nothing to do with the Rapture followers....and these are people that they themselves do not believe in the Rapture! They make the point that there are a number of times in the Old Test. where God has warned against specific behavior because it was the behavior of Israel's enemies at that time. I am not making the case for the Rapture doctrine. I am stating respecfully that, in my humble opinion, that the scripture you wish to use to refute is likely isn't talking about that at all.The last point I would make is this, and it pains me that this even has to be said:I cannot make the leap that some here have made that because someone believes in the Rapture doctrine, that person is intentionally perverting the word of God and causing others to sin. I do not think there is anyone on this BB who is qualified to look into their hearts and make this judgement, let alone scold them for it.If you disagree, do it respectfully. If you feel in your heart that they are wrong, then pray for them. If you are speaking from a position where you want to see the person enlightened, pray for them.If you are speaking, not to win an argument, but to win a convert over to the truth, pray for them.Harsh words and judgemental statements will win no one over to a Christian position, let alone to a better relationship with Jesus....And yes, this absolutely applies to me, as well...When I first came here I was surprised at the limited number of people who post here on a regular basis.When no interesting threads would start for a number of days in a row I chose to read through a number of the old ones.What I saw was a large number of people who have come and then gone, some rather quickly. In reading the tones of several of the threads and seeing how they were responded to when they didn't conform to the 'norms' of this BB, it was easy for me to see why many left. This BB definitely does not seem welcoming in ideas that go in contrast to those that have been here the longest. This is a perfect example:You have told them not to prepare for the Antichrist, and that the signs of the times of the entire Bible were not important. IT IS A LIE, brother, and God will judge you severely for that lie. wake up.How would someone on the receiving end of that think that this person would then be open to reasonable dialog?

Jordan · Sep 15, 2009

Tombstone;72923][QUOTE=Christina;72863]One of My favorite study said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...[/I]Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; 'Behold' date=' I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly." Have you ever wondered what God thinks of your fly-away doctrine? Here it is. God said, Behold, wake up, I am against your false doctrines [pillows'], wherewith ye hunt the souls to make them fly.Did you get that, God is against it when you go out to teach the souls of men and women and tell they they are going to fly out of here. Those that you have hunted with your whitewashed religion, and told them that they will fly out and not see the time of the end. You have told them not to prepare for the Antichrist, and that the signs of the times of the entire Bible were not important. IT IS A LIE, brother, and God will judge you severely for that lie. wake up. -- I must say Christina, I am disappointed.Let me ask you, if that tone was taken by someone else towards you, would you be willing to listen to what they have to say? Would you be open to correction? Did someone here strike that tone with you first?Would you even tolerate someone here talking to you that way, warning you that God will judge you severely for a lie that you believe in your heart to be true, using big red letters to make their point?If this is how you speak to other Christians with whom you disagree, I wonder what tone you strike when speaking with non-believers. I again say (respectfully) that I disagree the idea that Ez. 13:20 is specifically about those who speak on the rapture. I see it as a stretch at best. I laid out the specific reasons why and to date no one has said that the facts pointed out are wrong...just the conclusion from those facts. But no one has said why."Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly." -- Ez. 13:20Again, in reading the entire chapter you see that the 'pillows' are more literal than a single selected verse out of that chapter lets on. In verse 18 it talks about, "Woe to the women who so magic charmes on all their wrists and make veils of various lengths for their heads in order to ensnare people."THAT to me implies that what is being said in verse 20 address specifically what was said in verse 18.If you read 18, 19, and 20 together you get: "And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly."-- If you read it in that context, it seems to support your point even less.There were false prophets AT THAT TIME doing this. Making spectacular claims. And the charms/amulets/etc. were what they stated AT THAT TIME gave them the power to do it.Brother Mike spoke in his 11:41am post yesterday about the Hebrew definition of "Pillows" and what they were used for during that specific time in history. In essence, God is talking about an actual event at that time. I have read studies by people who I have seen God's hand on - people who have made a life's work out of studying The Word, and admit that God continues to show them new things even after several decades - say that this verse has nothing to do with the Rapture followers....and these are people that they themselves do not believe in the Rapture! They make the point that there are a number of times in the Old Test. where God has warned against specific behavior because it was the behavior of Israel's enemies at that time. I am not making the case for the Rapture doctrine. I am stating respecfully that, in my humble opinion, that the scripture you wish to use to refute is likely isn't talking about that at all.The last point I would make is this, and it pains me that this even has to be said:I cannot make the leap that some here have made that because someone believes in the Rapture doctrine, that person is intentionally perverting the word of God and causing others to sin. I do not think there is anyone on this BB who is qualified to look into their hearts and make this judgement, let alone scold them for it.If you disagree, do it respectfully. If you feel in your heart that they are wrong, then pray for them. If you are speaking from a position where you want to see the person enlightened, pray for them.If you are speaking, not to win an argument, but to win a convert over to the truth, pray for them.Harsh words and judgemental statements will win no one over to a Christian position, let alone to a better relationship with Jesus....And yes, this absolutely applies to me, as well...When I first came here I was surprised at the limited number of people who post here on a regular basis.When no interesting threads would start for a number of days in a row I chose to read through a number of the old ones.What I saw was a large number of people who have come and then gone, some rather quickly. In reading the tones of several of the threads and seeing how they were responded to when they didn't conform to the 'norms' of this BB, it was easy for me to see why many left. This BB definitely does not seem welcoming in ideas that go in contrast to those that have been here the longest. This is a perfect example:You have told them not to prepare for the Antichrist, and that the signs of the times of the entire Bible were not important. IT IS A LIE, brother, and God will judge you severely for that lie. wake up.How would someone on the receiving end of that think that this person would then be open to reasonable dialog?

[/QUOTE]Are you kidding me? She has ALWAYS taught that Satan will come first (Revelation 9:1) before the true Christ comes back. (I Corinthians 15:50-54, I Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 11:15)Truth can not be corrected... Those who knows the Truth by studying the Bible getting past the surface of the text... the Milk... Lastly, LOTS of people mistakes / confuses her confidence with Ego... She cares less about Ego. She cares more about the souls than her own pride if she ever had one but I completely doubt it... Again, people mistakes / confuses her confidence in God's Words with Ego.Blessings

Christina · Sep 16, 2009

Tombstone Sorry if you were offened at the tone of the study while I did not write it ... It does not mince words ... I dont think many realize the gravity of this Rapture doctrine. It not a game many will lose their very soul because of this false doctrine I think it is of the utmost importance ... And have no problem sending out the alarm ..And thats exactly what I felt this study did Now whether you agree or not that Eze.13:20 is about Rapture is not the point ... How many fly away doctrines are there? Do you know where it started? Whether you can see what Eze. 13:20 is basically refering to is what we might call slight of hand today ...The kind of thing a magian might do when pulling the rabbit out of the Hat ..magic a false delusion.. This is what Rapture is ... This doctrine has dire consquences for our christian brothers and sisters ... Its not like us disagreeing on an interptation of certain things ..This doctrine is not written in scripture literally teaches that one does not need to know the Words of God about End times because you will be gone ...Where does God say you do not need to read/learn my Words. Where does God say I wrote 1/3 of the bible about the last days but you dont need to read it ....No No this doctrine of men is the exact oppisite of Gods Words ... Those who do not realize Antichrist comes first as 2 Thess. Rev. ect tell them are in danger of falling for the lies the great delusion that will come ... Reading God Word understanding the sequence of events of the last days so that one can be prepared have their full spirtual armour of God on is of utmost importance ... Believing one doesnt have to worry/learn/read about it because they are going to fly away and be gone is false sense of security slight of hand of men and will cost many their souls ..... It was the gravity of this situation I was trying to show with this study ....Not offend ...

watchman · Sep 16, 2009

Christina;72944 said:
Tombstone Sorry if you were offened at the tone of the study while I did not write it ... It does not mince words ... I dont think many realize the gravity of this Rapture doctrine. It not a game many will lose their very soul because of this false doctrine.

These are the truest words you have ever spoken. When the tribnulation astarts and we are still here the pretribbers are not going to simply say ''well, I guess we were wrong''. No, many will turn on God for not ''delivering them'' as they have been told He has promised to do.

gervais · Sep 16, 2009

[quote name='tombstone;72923]when i first came here i was surprised at the limited number of people who post here on a regular basis.When no interesting threads would start for a number of days in a row i chose to read through a number of the old ones.What i saw was a large number of people who have come and then gone' date=' some rather quickly. In reading the tones of several of the threads and seeing how they were responded to when they didn't conform to the 'norms' of this bb, it was easy for me to see why many left. [/quote']amen!

Jordan · Sep 16, 2009

I can see why people left...1. Rude attitudes, to cause strive in the Body of Christ. (insults, hatred, etc)2. They don't like what they hear because it says opposite of their beliefs, because they think their beliefs are of God and unwillingly to change their mind for corrections, so decided to leave.OR3. They are literally tired of preaching false doctrine to keep trying to mislead one , but always fail... so decided to leave.All of them are right, but the most accuracy is either #2 or #3.Blessings

watchman · Sep 16, 2009

[quote name='Jordan;72947]I can see why people left...1. Rude attitudes' date=' to cause strive in the Body of Christ. (insults, hatred, etc)2. They don't like what they hear because it says opposite of their beliefs, because they think their beliefs are of God and unwillingly to change their mind for corrections, so decided to leave.OR3. They are literally tired of preaching false doctrine to keep trying to mislead one , but always fail... so decided to leave.All of them are right, but the most accuracy is either #2 or #3.Blessings[/QUOTE']Most of them left because they cannot stomach people like you that claim to be christians, but their attitudes towards others say anything but.The two of you tried to run me off, but I refuse to be bullied. You are right about the pretrib rapture, but for the most part it is you who is pushing false doctrines.

There is no rapture

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