Who are you ?

Behold said:

It will be difficult for you to learn anything, if you feel that because you have much to learn, you should behave badly.
I dont consider your sarcasm to be a learning experience.
You are just one more who isn't here to learn. You just want to argue theology, but you dont really have access.
So, is it possible that you and i could have a discussion?
?
Well, ill be posting a lot more Threads.
Maybe on one of those, you can show up and try to be a legit part of the discussion.
That's really up to you.

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Hello again Behold!

Behold said:

So, is it possible that you and i could have a discussion?

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not as long as youre on the lecture tour i guess, no; but if you would like to go back to the point you already dropped and glossed over i guess we could start from there

Behold said:

You are just one more who isn't here to learn.

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ah, the "im rubber youre glue" defense, yeh

and just another professor, here to "teach," neato
like we dont have enough of those already

Behold said:

The blood of Jesus has already cleansed your sin.
Romans 4:8 says that God does not charge you with your sin, if you are born again.
So, you have the verse, 1Jn 1:9, but you don't understand it, because its always the same, the bible is not a novel.
You don't just read it, and think you know it.
Doing that is why Cults are born, and more FALSE denominations are on the way.

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someday you might stumble across Esau, and recognize yourself in him. Until then i wish you the best of luck in your quest, and with the sun-rising-out-your-anus thing too ok

CharismaticLady said:

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

Did John walk in darkness?

1 John 3:9
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

If that person who has been born of God agrees with John, in chapter 3, is he still lying from chapter one?

Context, context, context!

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there is no truth in us. 9 But if we confess our sins to God, he will keep his promise and do what is right: he will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing.

If purified from all our past sins, are we still a sinner? Is this really so over your head you keep repeating verse 8 out of context? You don't even recognize that John is using "we" as mankind, just as Paul used it that way in Romans 7 with the word, "I". What are you trying to justify? You keep adding to scripture, such as but it doesn't eradicate sin in us. Do you know what 1 John 3:5 means? 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. THAT is a Christian. 1 John 1:8 isn't UNTIL they do verse 9.

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We are a sinner only in that sin dwells in our mortal flesh; but not necessarily in that we continue to sin in the practical sense.

You seem to want to be adamant about denying that you have a sin nature...this is dangerous to say the least. It means that you are deceiving yourself and the truth is not in you.

I am not seeking to justify myself for anything. I know that in my own life I have had perfect victory over sin for a small amount of time; ever since I understood perfectly that I am not under the law and therefore the principle in Romans 7:5 and Romans 7:8 has not been working itself out in my life.

To be purified from all our past sins means that we are forgiven of them. In the practical sense, we obtain victory over sin not by the eradication of the sin nature; but through the fact that the element of sin is rendered dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8). As the result, it no longer has any authority over our behaviour: and therefore we do not sin and cannot sin (1 John 3:9). We "cannot" do the things that we "would" do, Galatians 5:17.

bbyrd009 said:

yeh, and running from the other half. i mean cmon jbf

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What other half of the scriptures is it that you think I'm running from? Can you give a few references so that I can examine them in light of my theology?

Behold said:

Posting verses, is just cutting and pasting, has little effect on the Reader,

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Only for those who don't accept that the holy scriptures are authoritative. For those who do accept the authority of scripture, posting verses can indeed be a fruitful endeavor; in that they stand as the final word in any given situation and are able to prove the point of the one quoting them.

Of course, this will not avail for the one who doesn't hold the scriptures as authoritative.

But if the audience that we are attempting to reach is Christian, the holy scriptures do have a weight to them and can be profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).

Behold said:

Yes, all are under sin, when they are a Christ Rejector.
But once a person is born again, there are not under sin.
They are "Under Grace".

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all includes those who are born again.

Behold said:

I accept the authority of the Bible as my Final authority.
Yet, if a person cuts and pastes a wall of verses, this proves they have good cut and paste skills, and feel that this is proof they are right about something.
But it does not prove anything.
What proves everything, is if someone can rightly divide.... not just cut and paste using different colors.
Know what i mean?

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I tend to give the verses and allow the reader to interpret them in light of each other, utilizing the hermeneutical method found in 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv).

1Co 2:13, Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

justbyfaith said:

I would point out that Romans 3:23 says that all have sinned and come short (present tense) of the glory of the Lord.

In Galatians 3:22 it is clear that the scripture has concluded all under sin.

In 1 John 1:8, therefore, when John says, "we" he is including himself.

Therefore, if anyone says that they have no sin, they are deceiving themselves and the truth is not in them.

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Romans 3:9 For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

Galatians 3:22 But the scriptures shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

I know you are intelligent so why can't you distinguish between mankind before Christ and after Christ? I'm afraid you are just being stubborn as well as willfully blind. Open your eyes and read the whole word of God in context. Read 20 verses before and after one of your pet texts.

Behold said:

I never lecture.
It feels like this to you, and i can understand why.

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ha you dont even see that you are speaking purely in definitives right there, huh, lecturing about not lecturing now

justbyfaith said:

What other half of the scriptures is it that you think I'm running from? Can you give a few references so that I can examine them in light of my theology?

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what, again? No jbf, we have been down that road already, remember? DMA? And i am not here to tell you what you should believe anyway ok, much less have faith in. Just go ahead and keep saying that you know stuff, speaking in Absolutes, etc, with my blessings even ok, its none of my business i guess

Behold said:

Dont teach the lie that the born again can go to hell.
Ok?

Think about this..
Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit, are in a born again Believer.
They are IN them, justbyfaith.
So, if a Born again person, can go to hell, then God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit will go there also...
That is what you are teaching, when you say a child of God can burn in the lake of fire.
Don't Teach that.

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It should be clear that Jesus paid the penalty for our sins on the Cross.

And that therefore, the fact of indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, Galatians 3:22, Romans 3:23) is not going to place a born again believer in hell.

CharismaticLady said:

Galatians 3:22 But the scriptures shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

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The promise by faith of Jesus Christ, being given to us, doesn't change the fact of indwelling sin.

justbyfaith said:

The promise by faith of Jesus Christ, being given to us, doesn't change the fact of indwelling sin.

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Are you referring this verse for present indwelling sin which a dead body doesn't have, Romans 8:

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

CharismaticLady said:

Are you referring this verse for present indwelling sin which a dead body doesn't have, Romans 8:

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

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Does it say there that the body that is dead because of sin does not have indwelling sin?

Behold said:

Dont confuse negative with reality.

And i'm not certain what you means by "the righteousness you claim"?
Are you talking about mine?
My God given Righteousness?
Well that is as sinless as Jesus, and its "the Gift of righteousness".
And if you need me to post a lot of verses, i can do it, but, for the most part that is what people who don't know what they are talking about do..
Im a teacher, so, i teach.....
Posting verses, is just cutting and pasting, has little effect on the Reader, tho the person doing it, feels that this is impressive and proves their point.
It proves nothing.

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I never said the righteousness of your claim. I said the RIGHTNESS of your claim.