WHAT ABOUT CORNELIUS ?

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Doug

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Acts 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

It is significant that Cornelius was a Gentile, devout to the Lord. Cornelius was not just any Gentile, he was devout, just, feared God and he blessed Israel (Acts 10:22). God said he would bless those who blessed the nation of Israel in Genesis 12:3. His prayers and alms came up to God as a memorial (Acts 10:4).

10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

Peter had a vision of the Lord and was told that what the Lord had said was clean should not be seen as otherwise. The Lord was talking of Gentiles, no longer being deemed as unclean.

10:24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.

It could be assumed his kinsmen and friends were Gentiles.

10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Peter was not dispensing new revelation here, he was speaking what was in the law and prophets, he was speaking prophecy. Prophecy is not limited to foretelling the future, it also communicates revelations of the purposes and knowledge of God. Prophecy is not hidden knowledge, but can be searched within the law and the prophets.

It was already revealed in the prophetic scriptures that God was not a respecter of persons as can be read in Deuteronomy 1:17 Deuteronomy 10:17 and Proverbs 24:23.

10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

This was also according to prophecy as we can find this knowledge in Ecclesiastes 12:13 Psalm 147:11 and Luke 1:50.

10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all: )

Jesus is Lord of all, but he went first, to the house of Israel.

10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

Here Peter is accusing Israel in slaying Jesus just as he did in Acts 2:23.

10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Peter is not preaching the cross here, he is preaching faith in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins. Peter is not preaching mystery as Paul, but prophecy. Prophecy preached that Jesus would justify and forgive the sins of Israel as seen in Isaiah 53:11 Jeremiah 31:34 Daniel 9:24 Micah 7:18.

10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter's message was interrupted as the believing Gentiles received the Holy Ghost, just as the Jews had.

10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

These Gentiles spoke with tongues as a sign. Jesus said those who believed on the name of Jesus and the gospel of the kingdom on earth would speak with tongues in Mark 16:17. According to 1 Corinthians 14:21-22 tongues were to speak unto unbelieving Israel as a sign; Paul in this verse was manifesting Isaiah 28:11. Tongues was an evidence that Peter was still dealing with prophecy and not the mystery revealed to Paul.

10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Peter, preaching the gospel of the Circumcision, commanded baptism under the commandments given to Israel to believe and be baptized as seen in Luke 3:21 Luke 7:29 Acts 2:38 Acts 8:12 and Mark 16:16. Cornelius and the Gentiles were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus as prescribed for believing Israel, who believed on the name of Jesus. Israel was saved by believing on the name of the Lord Jesus, that he is Christ, the Son of God, as seen in John 20:31. Peter was not preaching the full revelation of the cross given to Paul, and Cornelius was not the first Gentile in the church, the body of Christ. Cornelius was a Gentile grafted into the good olive tree of believing Israel of Romans 11:24, to provoke Israel to jealousy as seen in Romans 11:11.

The book of Acts is a transitional book; it moves from the old economy of the law to the dispensation of Grace; it moves from the diminishing of Israel, toward the Gentiles. It moves from Peter to Paul.

To Peter it was revealed that God was moving in a new way with the Gentiles, however, Peter was not preaching the mystery, but rather prophecy, as witnessed by the law and the prophets. Peter was preaching the same message that he preached in Acts 2. Paul preached both mystery and Christ from the law and the prophets (Romans 16:25-26). Paul fully manifested the law and the prophets that witnessed Christ.
 
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justbyfaith

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Tongues was an evidence that Peter was still dealing with prophecy and not the dispensation of grace.

Tongues are a part of the dispensation of grace.

Peter was not preaching the full revelation of the cross given to Paul, and Cornelius was not the first Gentile in the church, the body of Christ. Cornelius was a Gentile grafted into Israel, to provoke Israel to jealousy as seen in Romans 11:11.

The olive tree is in fact Israel; but the branches on it are all members of the church.

Those who are graffed in are all believers in Christ and therefore members of the body of Christ.

It doesn't fail. You continue to seek to dispense a message that is contrary to Ephesians 3:6.
 

101G

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Addressing the OP, only one thing. you said,
Cornelius was a Gentile grafted into Israel, to provoke Israel to jealousy as seen in Romans 11:11.
well Cornelius was grafted into the TRUE VINE, which is Christ as was with Israel. Salvation was just offered to Israel first. but all must come by the One Spirit.

the Vine is Christ.

PICJAG.
 

quietthinker

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,..... Peter was not preaching the mystery, but rather prophecy, as witnessed by the law and the prophets. Peter was preaching the same message that he preached in Acts 2. Paul preached both mystery and Christ from the law and the prophets (Romans 16:25-26). Paul fully manifested the law and the prophets that witnessed Christ.
This is dividing the scriptures and splicing into them a view that distorts the message.
Peter and Paul had the same message. To Paul its implications were revealed at one time, to Peter at another.
'The mystery' was not about jews and gentiles now having access equally to forgiveness but rather 'the mystery' is the reconciliation of Justice and Mercy.
It was Justice and Mercy from all appearances that stood irreconcilably opposed to each other; how could God be just and merciful at the same time?....this was the issue that the living Universe was presented with. This question was answered in the Christ event.
The unfolding/the implications ie, the height and depth and breadth of this came to each apostle in his own time....no doubt, all within short space of each other with the fundamental message the same.

Peter not having the same experience as Paul doesn't mean he had a different thrust. His words recorded with his interaction with Cornelius were appropriate for the circumstances.
 
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Doug

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Tongues are a part of the dispensation of grace.
Tongues were a sign of believers of the gospel of the kingdom, not the body of Christ, as seen in Mark 16:17
Paul, in the dispensation of grace (unto who it was revealed in fact), says tongues are a sign to unbelieving Israel in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22. In 1 Corinthians 14:21 Paul is referring to Isaiah 28:11.
 
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Doug

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The olive tree is in fact Israel; but the branches on it are all members of the church.

Those who are grafted in are all believers in Christ and therefore members of the body of Christ.

Those grafted in were Gentiles just like Cornelius who believed on the name of Jesus as preached by Peter and the disciples and are not in the body of Christ, but are in the remnant of Israel.
 
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Doug

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Addressing the OP, only one thing. you said,

well Cornelius was grafted into the TRUE VINE, which is Christ as was with Israel. Salvation was just offered to Israel first. but all must come by the One Spirit.

the Vine is Christ.

PICJAG.
Paul never says the body of Christ is in the vine
 
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Doug

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This is dividing the scriptures and splicing into them a view that distorts the message.
Peter and Paul had the same message. To Paul its implications were revealed at one time, to Peter at another.
'The mystery' was not about jews and gentiles now having access equally to forgiveness but rather 'the mystery' is the reconciliation of Justice and Mercy.
It was Justice and Mercy from all appearances that stood irreconcilably opposed to each other; how could God be just and merciful at the same time?....this was the issue that the living Universe was presented with. This question was answered in the Christ event.
The unfolding/the implications ie, the height and depth and breadth of this came to each apostle in his own time....no doubt, all within short space of each other with the fundamental message the same.

Peter not having the same experience as Paul doesn't mean he had a different thrust. His words recorded with his interaction with Cornelius were appropriate for the circumstances.

Here are differences in preaching between the twelve apostles and the apostle Paul:
1) The name of Jesus
The twelve preached whosoever believed in the name of Jesus was saved (John 1:12 John 3:16-18 John 20:31 Acts 10:43). There was no mention of reconciliation by the cross (Colossians 1:20), and in fact the understanding of the death and resurrection was hid from the twelve (Luke 18:34).
Paul preached salvation in the name of Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:2 1 Corinthians 6:11 Ephesians 5:20) and by the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 Colossians 1:20 Galatians 6:14 Ephesians 2:16).
2) Baptism
The twelve preached salvation upon baptism (Acts 2:38 Mark 16:16)
Paul was not sent to baptize (1 Corinthians 1:17)
3) The Holy Ghost
The twelve preached the receiving of the Holy Ghost upon baptism (Acts 2:38).
Paul preached that the Holy Ghost was received upon belief (Ephesians 1:13).
4) The kingdom
The twelve preached the kingdom gospel of the earthly Davidic kingdom (Luke 9:2 Luke 9:6).
Paul spoke of a heavenly kingdom (2 Timothy 4:18).
5) The resurrection
The twelve preached Jesus raised from the dead to sit upon the throne of David (Acts 2:30).
Paul preached that Jesus was raised for our justification unto eternal life (Romans 4:25).
6) Salvation
The twelve preached salvation at the coming of Christ (Acts 3:19 1 Peter 1:5 1 Peter 1:7).
Paul preached salvation now (Ephesians 2:8).
7) Forgiveness
The twelve preached forgiveness at the coming of Christ (Acts 3:19).
Paul preached forgiveness now in Christ (Colossians 1:14).
8) Destination
The twelve were appointed to judge the twelve tribes in the Davidic kingdom on earth (Luke 22:30). The twelve preached that believing Israel would be given the earthly kingdom (Luke 12:32).
Paul preached the heavenly places for the body of Christ (Ephesians 2:6).

Here are the similarities between the twelve and Paul:
1) The name of Jesus
The twelve preached the name of Jesus (John 1:12).
Paul preached the name of Jesus (Acts 9:29 Romans 1:5 1 Corinthians 1:2).
2) Jesus the Christ, the Son of God
The twelve preached Jesus as Christ, the Son of God (Matthew 16:16).
Paul preached Jesus as Christ, the Son of God (2 Corinthians 1:19).
3) The gospel of Christ
The twelve preached the gospel of Christ (Mark 1:1).
Paul preached the gospel of Christ (Romans 1:16) but with further revelations made known to him by revelations of the Lord Jesus Christ ( 2 Corinthians 12:7 Ephesians 3:2-7).
It can be decided upon comparing scripture as to whether or not the apostles all preached the same thing.
 

justbyfaith

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Tongues were a sign of believers of the gospel of the kingdom, not the body of Christ, as seen in Mark 16:17
Paul, in the dispensation of grace (unto who it was revealed in fact), says tongues are a sign to unbelieving Israel in 1 Corinthians 14:21-22. In 1 Corinthians 14:21 Paul is referring to Isaiah 28:11.

Tongues is a spiritual gift given to New Testament believers.

Those grafted in were Gentiles just like Cornelius who believed on the name of Jesus as preached by Peter and the disciples and are not in the body of Christ, but are in the remnant of Israel.

Those graffed in become members of the body of Christ.

Paul never says the body of Christ is in the vine

It is only a basic given of common sense that those who are branches in the vine, who is Jesus Christ, are members of the body of Christ, the church.

It can be decided upon comparing scripture as to whether or not the apostles all preached the same thing.

Paul was truly the disciple who replaced Judas; it was not Matthias but Paul.

As evidence for this I say that Matthias did not produce anything that we call scripture as an apostle while Paul did.

If the person who produced at least 1/3 of NT scripture is not one of the twelve as a replacement for Judas, I'll be a monkey's uncle.

For this reason I say that Paul was one of the twelve in this regard; and I don't think that the apostles were disunified; especially when Paul himself gave an exhortation to not be disunified with the rest in 1 Corinthians 1:10.
 

Philip James

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All of the verse you quoted was Paul defending his apostleship.

Try again..

For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe's people, that there are rivalries among you.

I mean that each of you is saying, "I belong to Paul," or "I belong to Apollos," or "I belong to Kephas," or "I belong to Christ."



And in case you missed it, he clarifies the point here:

So let no one boast about human beings, for everything belongs to you,

Paul or Apollos or Kephas, or the world or life or death, or the present or the future: all belong to you,

and you to Christ, and Christ to God


Peace be with you!
 

quietthinker

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Here are differences in preaching between the twelve apostles and the apostle Paul:
1) The name of Jesus
The twelve preached whosoever believed in the name of Jesus was saved (John 1:12 John 3:16-18 John 20:31 Acts 10:43). There was no mention of reconciliation by the cross (Colossians 1:20), and in fact the understanding of the death and resurrection was hid from the twelve (Luke 18:34).
Paul preached salvation in the name of Jesus (1 Corinthians 1:2 1 Corinthians 6:11 Ephesians 5:20) and by the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 Colossians 1:20 Galatians 6:14 Ephesians 2:16).
2) Baptism
The twelve preached salvation upon baptism (Acts 2:38 Mark 16:16)
Paul was not sent to baptize (1 Corinthians 1:17)
3) The Holy Ghost
The twelve preached the receiving of the Holy Ghost upon baptism (Acts 2:38).
Paul preached that the Holy Ghost was received upon belief (Ephesians 1:13).
4) The kingdom
The twelve preached the kingdom gospel of the earthly Davidic kingdom (Luke 9:2 Luke 9:6).
Paul spoke of a heavenly kingdom (2 Timothy 4:18).
5) The resurrection
The twelve preached Jesus raised from the dead to sit upon the throne of David (Acts 2:30).
Paul preached that Jesus was raised for our justification unto eternal life (Romans 4:25).
6) Salvation
The twelve preached salvation at the coming of Christ (Acts 3:19 1 Peter 1:5 1 Peter 1:7).
Paul preached salvation now (Ephesians 2:8).
7) Forgiveness
The twelve preached forgiveness at the coming of Christ (Acts 3:19).
Paul preached forgiveness now in Christ (Colossians 1:14).
8) Destination
The twelve were appointed to judge the twelve tribes in the Davidic kingdom on earth (Luke 22:30). The twelve preached that believing Israel would be given the earthly kingdom (Luke 12:32).
Paul preached the heavenly places for the body of Christ (Ephesians 2:6).

Here are the similarities between the twelve and Paul:
1) The name of Jesus
The twelve preached the name of Jesus (John 1:12).
Paul preached the name of Jesus (Acts 9:29 Romans 1:5 1 Corinthians 1:2).
2) Jesus the Christ, the Son of God
The twelve preached Jesus as Christ, the Son of God (Matthew 16:16).
Paul preached Jesus as Christ, the Son of God (2 Corinthians 1:19).
3) The gospel of Christ
The twelve preached the gospel of Christ (Mark 1:1).
Paul preached the gospel of Christ (Romans 1:16) but with further revelations made known to him by revelations of the Lord Jesus Christ ( 2 Corinthians 12:7 Ephesians 3:2-7).
It can be decided upon comparing scripture as to whether or not the apostles all preached the same thing.
Preaching in the name of Jesus and preaching the cross are synonymous. The way each writer expresses the same message is not to be confused as if they were preaching a different message. You are creating the divisions not the scriptures.
 
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101G

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Paul never says the body of Christ is in the vine
GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply, but the body of Christ is a metaphor of the vine, which we are the branches. and as a branch we're to bring fort fruit. listen to the Apostle spoke in the Holy Ghost, Colossians 1:6 "Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:"
now the Lord Jesus, John 15:16 "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."

and that fruit is in the Holy Ghost. see Galatians 5:22 & 23.

Romans 7:4 "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

so clearly in scriptures the vine is a metaphor for the body of Christ.

Hope that helped you.
 

Doug

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Tongues is a spiritual gift given to New Testament believers.
The point is that tongues was a sign to unbelieving Israel 1 Corinthians 1:22. These Gentiles speaking in tongues in Acts 10 were to cause Israel to repent.

By the way I edited the section on tongues and changed making reference on the dispensation of grace since it didn't really convey my thought....thanks
 

Doug

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Those graffed in become members of the body of Christ.
If you care to believe that fine but you can not find scripture to agree. Romans 9 through 11 are dealing with the election of grace (Romans 11:5), the remnant of Israel, not the body of Christ. You can not find a reference to the body of Christ in Romans 9 through 11, only references to Israel Romans 9:3-4 Romans 9:31 Romans 10:1 Romans 10:21 Romans 11:1 Romans 11:26.
 

justbyfaith

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It is only the body of Christ that is saved by grace through faith. (I don't think you can find a scripture that says that Israel is saved by grace through faith apart from induction into the body of Christ through faith in Jesus).
 

Doug

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It is only a basic given of common sense that those who are branches in the vine, who is Jesus Christ, are members of the body of Christ, the church.
Yes common sense based on scripture....there remains no mention from Paul in regard to the vine. Israel had to abide in Christ in order to enter the Davidic earthly kingdom and be given authority to reign; if they did not abide they could not be fruitful (John 15:5) and would be cast out of the kingdom on earth (John 15:6). They would still have eternal life by believing on his name (John 20:31), they just would lose position in the kingdom on earth.
 
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Doug

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Try again..

For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe's people, that there are rivalries among you.

I mean that each of you is saying, "I belong to Paul," or "I belong to Apollos," or "I belong to Kephas," or "I belong to Christ."



And in case you missed it, he clarifies the point here:

So let no one boast about human beings, for everything belongs to you,

Paul or Apollos or Kephas, or the world or life or death, or the present or the future: all belong to you,

and you to Christ, and Christ to God


Peace be with you!

I really cant say I know what your position is but Paul was saying:

For there being no divisions 1 Corinthians 1:10

not to glory in men 1 Corinthians 3:21

that they would account him as a minister of Christ 1 Corinthians 4:1

he was not concerned with them not recognizing him as a minster of Christ 1 Corinthians 4:3

he was saying follow him 1 Corinthians 4:16
 

Doug

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Preaching in the name of Jesus and preaching the cross are synonymous. The way each writer expresses the same message is not to be confused as if they were preaching a different message. You are creating the divisions not the scriptures.

Preaching the name of Christ could in no wise be said to mean Christ died for our sins and rose again. It says what it says....changing it to mean whatever one wants could diffuse all scripture.
Everyone had to have faith...they had to believe the message God gave them at that time.
It is not a problem to say there are different gospels because the Bible is progressive and God has different purposes for the remnant of Israel and the body of Christ, it is one God who in the end will gather all together in Christ.
 
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