How Christianity was the catalyst of the Holocaust:

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limbo

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geordie72 First, thank you for the Hitler research and Hitler quotes. satan uses the Lord's churches to the best of it's ability--Hitler's only a sophisticated Dracula (a real man). But knowing that the devil only gets wiser and people more insnared by it(the devil and satan), as the Lord's Coming gets closer, it's not a wonder that Hitler would rise above a battered, back-slidden people and instigate the Holocaust. My question to you is: Isn't it a possibility that the churches of that time were a bit back-slidden? And that the leaders of these churches had only one goal in mind, survival? i could go about the compromise to survival, but you get the idea.All said, it is right to know what Hitler said. i am sure his "convincing ideas" will become more sophisticated and have been and will be more swallowed by people today and tomorrow. "Sleeping Christians" who do not or want to know the wiles satan and are content to listen to their "pastors", never reading in the Spirit what Jesus christ said.And no, dear geordie 72, Christianity was not the catalyst to the Holocaust. An angry God,who saw His Church, like His Isrealites, backslidden and gone, saw all that was happening and saved some. There were many heroic Christians who died in those concentration camps, along side the Jews. And many Jews turned to their true Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. Many are called, few are Chosen.The walk with Christ is one on one. Chose Him and He'll chose you.In Him,limbo
 

limbo

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geordie72 First, thank you for the Hitler research and Hitler quotes. satan uses the Lord's churches to the best of it's ability--Hitler's only a sophisticated Dracula (a real man). But knowing that the devil only gets wiser and people more insnared by it(the devil and satan), as the Lord's Coming gets closer, it's not a wonder that Hitler would rise above a battered, back-slidden people and instigate the Holocaust. My question to you is: Isn't it a possibility that the churches of that time were a bit back-slidden? And that the leaders of these churches had only one goal in mind, survival? i could go about the compromise to survival, but you get the idea.All said, it is right to know what Hitler said. i am sure his "convincing ideas" will become more sophisticated and have been and will be more swallowed by people today and tomorrow. "Sleeping Christians" who do not or want to know the wiles satan and are content to listen to their "pastors", never reading in the Spirit what Jesus christ said.And no, dear geordie 72, Christianity was not the catalyst to the Holocaust. An angry God,who saw His Church, like His Isrealites, backslidden and gone, saw all that was happening and saved some. There were many heroic Christians who died in those concentration camps, along side the Jews. And many Jews turned to their true Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. Many are called, few are Chosen.The walk with Christ is one on one. Chose Him and He'll chose you.In Him,limbo
 

Dad of 3

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Sir Knight;73856][list type=decimal][*]Actually said:
The "office of Pope" is based on the actions of the Apostles where they picked a replacement for Judas granting him FULL Apostalic authority -- showing that the authority given to them WAS transferrable to others.[/LIST] [list type=decimal][*]Where does it say in the bible that everything regarding the faith is to be found in it's pages? It doesn't! As a matter of fact, it specifically instructs us to observe all that is handed down to us BOTH in writing and ORALLY. [*]Recall the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Many falsely conclude that the Rich Man is in hell but notice that he expresses concern for his brothers so that they do no end up in the same place that he is. Compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are forever cut off from God's graces. Therefore, the Rich Man can not be in hell and since he is obviously not in heaven, he is in some third place where he is beging purified of his sins. For nearly two thousand years, "this other place" has been referred to as Purgatory by the Catholic Church. [*]In Matthew 12, Jesus tells us that “Anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” -- showing that there is forgiveness in the next life. Where does this forgiveness happen? Not in heaven because those that are in heaven are in no need of forgiveness and certainly not in hell where no forgiveness is possible. Again, showing that there is some "other place" where forgiveness IS given -- fitting in perfectly with the Catholic Church teaching of Purgatory. [*]In 2 Tim. 1:16-18, Paul asks for mercy for Onesiphorus who is dead. There is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.[/LIST] [list type=decimal][*]Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus for we read in Ezek. 44:2 that no man shall pass through the gate by which the Lord entered the world — this is a prophecy of Mary’s perpetual virginity. Mary remained a virgin before, during and after the birth of Jesus. [*]Additionally, we read in Mark 6:3 that Jesus was always referred to as “the” son of Mary, not “a” son of Mary. Furthermore, when searching for Jesus in Luke 2:41-51 and finding Him in the temple, there is never any mention of other siblings. [*]Finally, it would have been unthinkable for Jesus to commit the care of his mother to a friend in John 19:26-27 if he had brothers. [*]The fact of the matter is that in Hebrew and Aramaic, “brother” is often referred to as “kinsmen” or even a close friend (see 2 Sam. 1:26; 1 Kings 9:13, 20:32). In Gen. 29:15, Laban calls Jacob his “brother” even though Jacob is his nephew. [*]Gen. 13:8 & 14:14,16 tells us that Lot is Abraham’s brother (adelphos”) but Gen. 11:26-28 tells us that Lot is Abraham’s nephew (”anepsios”). [*]In Acts 1:12-15 we read about the gathering of Jesus’ “brothers” amounting to about 120 — that’s a lot of children for one woman to have. Mary would have had to give birth to triplets every 9 months straight for three decades![/LIST] In John 3:5,11; Matt. 16:11-12 we see some examples of Jesus correcting wrong impressions of His teaching. In the Eucharistic discourse, Jesus does not correct the "misunderstanding" about eating His flesh and drinking His blood. Why? because they understood correctly. Let's look at it piece by piece ... [list type=decimal][*]John 6:51-52 = Jesus says that the bread He is referring to is His flesh. The Jews take Him literally and immediately question such a teaching. How can this man give us His flesh to eat? [*]John 6:53 - 58 = Jesus does not correct their literal interpretation like He did in John 3:5,11; Matt. 16:11-12 when His followers misunderstood Him. Instead, Jesus eliminates any metaphorical interpretations by swearing an oath and being even more literal about eating His flesh. In fact, Jesus says four times we must eat His flesh and drink His blood. Catholics thus believe that Jesus makes present His body and blood in the sacrifice of the Mass. Protestants, if they are not going to become Catholic, can only argue that Jesus was somehow speaking symbolically. [*]John 6:23-53 = however, a symbolic interpretation is not plausible. Throughout these verses, the Greek text uses the word "phago". "Phago" literally means "to eat" or "physically consume." Like the Protestants of our day, the disciples take issue with Jesus' literal usage of "eat." So Jesus does what? [*]John 6:54, 56, 57, 58 = He uses an even more literal verb, translated as "trogo," which means to gnaw or chew or crunch. He increases the literalness and drives his message home. Jesus will literally give us His flesh and blood to eat. The word “trogo” is only used two other times in the New Testament (in Matt. 24:38 and John 13:18) and it always means to literally gnaw or chew meat. While “phago” might also have a spiritual application, "trogo" is never used metaphorically in Greek. So Protestants cannot find one verse in Scripture where "trogo" is used symbolically, and yet this must be their argument if they are going to deny the Catholic understanding of Jesus' words. Moreover, the Jews already knew Jesus was speaking literally even before Jesus used the word “trogo” when they said “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” (John 6:52). [*]John 6:55 = to clarify further, Jesus says "For My Flesh is food indeed, and My Blood is drink indeed." This phrase can only be understood as being responsive to those who do not believe that Jesus' flesh is food indeed, and His blood is drink indeed. Further, Jesus uses the word which is translated as "sarx." "Sarx" means flesh (not "soma" which means body). See, for example, John 1:13,14; 3:6; 8:15; 17:2; Matt. 16:17; 19:5; 24:22; 26:41; Mark 10:8; 13:20; 14:38; and Luke 3:6; 24:39 which provides other examples in Scripture where "sarx" means flesh. It is always literal. [*]John 6:55 = further, the phrases "real" food and "real" drink use the word "alethes." "Alethes" means "really" or "truly," and would only be used if there were doubts concerning the reality of Jesus' flesh and blood as being food and drink. Thus, Jesus is emphasizing the miracle of His body and blood being actual food and drink. [*]John 6:60 = as are many anti-Catholics today, Jesus' disciples are scandalized by these words. They even ask, "Who can 'listen' to it (much less understand it)?" To the unillumined mind, it seems grotesque. [*]John 6:61-63 = Jesus acknowledges their disgust. Jesus' use of the phrase "the spirit gives life" means the disciples need supernatural faith, not logic, to understand His words.[/LIST] And why is this a problem? One either believes in the sacred truths or one doesn't.
I call BS on your responses because they're not even your opinions, but come straight from Catholic catechism 1 What makes you think that this refers to the office of Pope?2 There's no indication of the office of savior and apostles being needed all through time. Since Jesus told Peter that he was the rock upon which the church would be built, he didn't mean it literally, to build a church on top of him, but rather his faith and the demonstrations thereof being a lesson to all future Christians. Neither the current Pope nor any to follow will be better than me because we're all of the same human fecal matter, unworthy of salvation in the eyes of God, but free to receive it for the grace of God. 1 If I'm not mistaken, Revelation says that nothing is to be added or taken away from the Bible, so this precludes the Book of Mormon, Catholic texts, the writings of Ellen G White, etc are nonsensical.2 You've built an entire doctrine around a maybe, a very dangerous ground to walk.3 You're making a big leap here, assuming that just because there's no forgiveness for those who speak against the Holy Spirit in this world or the next means that there's any at all after death, a leap not supported by the text.4 God can do whatever he wants, up to and including changing his mind. If he decides to forgive someone their sins at the altar of judgement, are you gonna tell him that's against the rules? Since monogamy is the Biblical ideal and we know that prophets who practiced polygamy are going to be in Heaven, does that mean that God was just okay with it? Of course not. It means that there's more to their righteousness than polygamy alone, isn't there? 1 Garbage. Mark 6:3 clearly states that Jesus had four brothers: James, Joses, Juda, and Simon, as well as two unnamed sisters. That makes seven, a mystical number in ancient cultures. Reference then Matthew 1:24-25 and we see that Joseph goes to his wife and he didn't know her (have sex with, also used by the Sodomites who wanted to "know" the two strangers in Lot's house) till she had brought forth her firstborn son. If Jesus was her only son, the text would probably note that, but instead, it makes a point of specifically stating her firstborn, as in the first of at least two. Catholic catchism states that they were his cousins or some such nonsense, but that's not the case because the Greek word, adelphos, I believe, means brother, not cousin. You take Ezekiel 44:2 to be more crude than it's meant; since it probably doesn't mean Mary's vagina, it must mean a spiritual passage, like a one-way door, and you thus can't sneak into Heaven that way. Luke 2:41-52 doesn't confirm or deny the existance of siblings so it means nothing to this point. John 19:26-27 speaks of a disciple, but never defines that disciple. It's probably not one of her sons, but if they were all killed or left the country prior to the Crucifixion, the point would be moot, wouldn't it? You're deliberately misinterpreting Acts 1:12-15. First, you have two groups of people, the Apostles and Mary with Jesus' bretheren, though they are not named. The 120 you mentioned are disciples, not his brothers. The Apostles may or may not be counted in that number. Really? Have you seen the Host and wine become Jesus' flesh and blood? Me neither. I took communion for some 14 years and never once had blood or flesh in my mouth. This is a sham and blatantly untrue. Of course it's symbolic because the altar isn't a table for butchering meat. And since Jesus isn't dead, he can't be cut up and served as cold cuts. This is a concept that man can never fully understand, other than while it's symbolic, it's the closest mere man can come to grasping such a concept.
 

Diana

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Adstar;74035]That Authority was given to Peter and Peter alone. Jesus never established a transferable authority. Jesus revealed that when He left the Helper the holy Spirit would come and tell them all things.[/QUOTE] Hello Adstar said:
The Apostles where selecting an equal they where not selecting a Leader. This in no way gives authority for anyone to later establish a pope anywhere.
You are correct that they were not selecting a leader because St. Peter was already the leader. They were selecting someone to replace Judas Iscariot, and it was St. Peter who instructed this to happen (Acts 1:15-26). Because St. Peter was the leader of the Apostles, his successor would also be the leader of the Apostles. Jesus told St. Peter and only St. Peter to take care of his flock, and He said this to him three times (John 21:15-18). St. Peter died in Rome along with St. Paul. The person who became Pope after the Apostle Peter was St. Linus, who was the same "Linus" mentioned in the Bible ( 2 Timothy 4:21).
Adstar;74035]Anything given Orally must never be in conflict with the Words of Jesus. Peter handed down the scriptures to the body of christ. Never did he order anyone to pray in propitious prayers in rebellion against the word of Jesus. [/QUOTE] I agree. What is said and the traditions handed down from the Apostles does not contradict the Bible. The Bible is indeed the Word of God said:
2 Thes. 2:15[/COLOR] Therefore, brothers stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.
Adstar;74035][*] In 2 Tim. 1:16-18 said:
Where? 2 Timothy 116 The Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain; 17 but when he arrived in Rome, he sought me out very zealously and found me. 18 The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day—and you know very well how many ways he ministered to me at Ephesus.Paul was not praying to God here He was expressing a hope that Onesiphorus would be saved. You cannot pray dead people into eternity with God.
My sister, St. Paul was a Jew, and even until today the Jewish people still pray for the dead. The Jewish people have always prayed for the dead. St. Paul was indeed praying for Onesiphorus who was already dead.
Adstar;74035]Clear as Day: It is amazing how the catholic church could put forward the big lie said:
The Catholic Church is the oldest Christian denomination. It can trace its heritage all the way back to the Apostle Peter and it can trace its roots to Judaism. After all, Christianity was a branch from Judaism. It is sad to see that our brothers and sisters on the Protestant side has such view of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church did not lock up the Word of God. In fact, it was the Catholic Church that first put together and cannonized that Holy Bible that you hold so dear.Peace be with you, Diana
 

soulja boy

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The Catholic Church is the oldest Christian denomination. It can trace its heritage all the way back to the Apostle Peter and it can trace its roots to Judaism. After all, Christianity was a branch from Judaism. It is sad to see that our brothers and sisters on the Protestant side has such view of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church did not lock up the Word of God. In fact, it was the Catholic Church that first put together and cannonized that Holy Bible that you hold so dear.
Being the oldest denomination is not something to be proud of. Paul condemned factions (denominations) in Corinthians and Jesus does as well because in John he prayed that we might be one as he and the father was.It cannot trace its heritage back to Peter. The first pope was the bishop of Rome several hundred years after Peter. He took on the title pope, meaning "pappa" because he saw himself as the senior bishop. God had nothing to do with it as to do so would contravene his word as he said if you want to be great you have to be a servant, not the top dog living in a palace. The word servant means "waiting on tables". Has the pope done this lately. Another thing that God does not sanction is all the paraphernalia that he wears. That is a sign of superiorhood not servanthood. It is delusional to say that the RC church didn't lock up the bible. Wycliffe was burnt at the stake because he printed the bible and made it avilable to the common man. Why did Vatican 2 say it wanted to encourage the common man to read the bible if they were already doing it?Hitler got encouragment from the RC church because they did not oppose what he was doing which is not surprising as the RC hedges its bets and usually comes down on the side of what they will get the most benefit from.I have only one thing to commend the RC church for and that is its stand against abortion. Shame on the protestant churches who by and large don't seem to want to do anything about the wholesale slaughter of innocent little babies.
 

Diana

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soulja boy;74248]Being the oldest denomination is not something to be proud of. Paul condemned factions (denominations) in Corinthians and Jesus does as well because in John he prayed that we might be one as he and the father was.It cannot trace its heritage back to Peter. The first pope was the bishop of Rome several hundred years after Peter. He took on the title pope said:
Hello soulja boy, You are mistaken. The Catholic Church can trace its history all the way back to the Apostle Peter because it is an "Apostolic church." The successor of the Apostle Peter after he was executed was St. Linus. Below is a weblink showing all the list of Popes and the dates they became Pope all the way back to the Apostle Peter. This is on record even on an Almanac. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm As you can see from the Bible that even the Jewish people can trace their heritage to Abraham. In the Bible, even Jesus' heritage was traced all the way back to Abraham. In the same way, the Catholic Church has not lost its Jewish roots. It also traced its heritage to the Apostles.
soulja boy;74248 said:
It is delusional to say that the RC church didn't lock up the bible. Wycliffe was burnt at the stake because he printed the bible and made it avilable to the common man. Why did Vatican 2 say it wanted to encourage the common man to read the bible if they were already doing it?Hitler got encouragment from the RC church because they did not oppose what he was doing which is not surprising as the RC hedges its bets and usually comes down on the side of what they will get the most benefit from.I have only one thing to commend the RC church for and that is its stand against abortion. Shame on the protestant churches who by and large don't seem to want to do anything about the wholesale slaughter of innocent little babies.
Yes, I am very much aware of the sins that the Catholic Church has committed in the past. Of course, we were not a perfect people just as the chosen people of Israel was not perfect. Despite the sins, the teachings of the church has remained the same. As you can see from the Bible, the chosen people of Israel has sinned against God and humanity, but God has never abandoned His people. Despite our sins, God also does not abandon His church - the church that He established. My brother, God has always chosen the poor, the weak, the lowly, the humble, and the greatest sinner as His chosen one. He never choose the strong or the wealthest person. God always chooses the weak, the lowly, the humble, and the greatest sinner as His chosen ones and through them, His power is shown. Abraham was chosen because he was very old and his wife was barren. God's power made Abraham the father of many nations. David was also chosen, and he was only a shepherd boy, but it was this shepherd boy who had no military skills that defeated Goliath. This shepherd boy also became a king because only God had the power to turn a shepherd boy into a king. If David had been a warrior and a strong man, it would be easy for anyone to believe that David himself can become king on his own power. But a poor shepherd boy with no military skill to defeat a giant and later become king can only be a power coming from God. St. Paul was a grea sinner as he murdered Christians, but he was God's chosen. The Hebrew people were chosen because they were slaves, and slaves are the poorest of the poor. However, this chosen race became a nation (Ex. 19:6). Moses told this group of people that they are God's chosen people, his priesthood, and a consecrated nation. St. Peter made a similar speech to the Christians. St. Peter told the Christians that they are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, and a consecrated nation (1 Peter 2:9). Of all the Christian denomination, ony the Catholic Church became a nation with the Pope as "Head of State." God's chosen people became a nation in time. God's chosen church also became a nation. Vatican City is a country just like Israel and the Pope is a "Head of State" just like the Prime Minister of Israel. History shows that the Catholic Church was not perfect. But, history also shows that God's chosen people (the Hebrews) were also not perfect, but out Israel came our Savior Jesus Christ. And out of God's chosen church came many saints. Peace be with you, Diana
 

Adstar

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Diana;74222]Hello Adstar said:
Hello DianaI hope you are freed from the deceptions that bind you also.You quote two scriptures let us read them in context also including the preceding verse to add clarity.1 Corinthians 151 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,Note firstly the Word brethren Paul is talking to all those saints who received the letter to the Corinthians, the whole congregation, Not a singular person.Note again at the end as He defines what it is he was passing onto them. "that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,"It is only by selecting isolated verses in scriptures and delivering them to a biblically unread audience, that deceivers can lead others into deception but when scriptures are read in context by those guided by the Holy Spirit the deception can be exposed. Cor. 15:3-4 in no way justifies the claim on transferred infallible papal authority. Actually when the deception and the false interpretation is clearly shown ( as has been done here) it acts to undermine it. 1 Corinthians 103 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,Your next Quoted scripture was:(1 Cor. 11:23) But once again let us place this verse in its context. Let us reveal what the true subject was that Paul was talking about.1 Corinthians 1120 Therefore when you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. 21 For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you. 23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes. 27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.So Paul was referring to the Lords supper This is what He was talking about, he was correcting them in the proper way the Lords supper should be carried out. I thank God that the scriptures are no longer under the restricted control of the abominable harlot church of Rome that we who believe Jesus can read all of scriptures and can grow in the knowledge of salvation and be made wise to clearly see deception.
You are correct that they were not selecting a leader because St. Peter was already the leader. They were selecting someone to replace Judas Iscariot, and it was St. Peter who instructed this to happen (Acts 1:15-26). Because St. Peter was the leader of the Apostles, his successor would also be the leader of the Apostles.
Once again there is No Biblical support for this conclusion. Time and time again in the scripture where true Authority within the body of Christ was referenced it talks about the Elders Not the Elder.
Jesus told St. Peter and only St. Peter to take care of his flock, and He said this to him three times (John 21:15-18). St. Peter died in Rome along with St. Paul. The person who became Pope after the Apostle Peter was St. Linus, who was the same "Linus" mentioned in the Bible ( 2 Timothy 4:21)
. Peter finalised the Word of God. the scriptures. That was the Authority that Jesus gave to him and to him only. The church was finished, build on Peter, Not on 20 ,30, 40 supposed successors.
I agree. What is said and the traditions handed down from the Apostles does not contradict the Bible. The Bible is indeed the Word of God, but the Catholics understand that the "Word of God" is much bigger than the Bible.
The Word of God is the Word of God and when ever it comes it will not go against the Word that God has established in the Bible. So all doctrine that comes our way can be measured against the template of the Bible to show it's validity or otherwise. The catholic churches false teachings are shown to be otherwise by the measure of the true Scriptures.
As a matter of fact, the "Word of God" has a name. His name is Jesus Christ. And Jesus Christ (who is the "Word of God") is the head of the Church. Therefore, the Catholics adhere to both the teachings of the Bible and the teachings of the Church.
Clearly Not. The teaching and practice of the prayer the hail Mary is in clear rebellion against the Word of God, Jesus. for Jesus said:Matthew 66 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. Who is the head of the catholic church? the Messiah Jesus or another jesus?Who do you believe the Word of God or the traditions of men who are in rebellion against the Word of God. For me, i believe the Messiah Jesus, He is my Lord and i will believe His Word and His Word Clearly states that repetitious prayers are Not for His followers. Clearly the hail Mary that has been set up to be prayed repetitiously in 10 sets of 10 decads is nothing more than a catholic version of a tibetan spinning prayer wheel. The thinking is vain, that one will be heard by chanting the same prayer over and over again.
The Apostles did not just hand down their letters and books, but they also handed down their traditions. The Catholics called this the "Apostolic tradition."
The Apostles never passed down false traditions of men who mixed the truth with pagan lies to form a spiritual harlot of a religion. The "Apostolic tradition." is not Apostolic at all but a grafting on of paganism and the thinking of unguided corrupt men.
My sister, St. Paul was a Jew, and even until today the Jewish people still pray for the dead. The Jewish people have always prayed for the dead. St. Paul was indeed praying for Onesiphorus who was already dead.
I am a man. And i am no brother in Jesus of yours at this current time. Hopefully through the convicting power of the Holy Spirit this will change soon. The bible clearly states that the Jewish people had fallen away from the Spirit of scriptures and fallen down because of the traditions of man. Jesus clearly pointed this out time and time again. So for the catholic church to base it's doctrine on the traditions of the corrupted Jewish cultural traditions is like building ones foundations in quicksand. Your point here does not solidify the traditions your church places above the Word of God it actually undermines them.
The Catholic Church is the oldest Christian denomination.
No. The Body of Christ existed before the catholic church.
It can trace its heritage all the way back to the Apostle Peter and it can trace its roots to Judaism.
No it can only place its heritage back to the act of Spiritual harlotry that occurred between false christians and the liar or deceived Constantine who used them to gain worldly power. When they accepted the lie of Constantine they, like the Jews before them sought to have a worldly king over them. The day the Jews demanded to have a king over them was the darkest day in their history. Likewise the day that these joined with Constantine.
After all, Christianity was a branch from Judaism. It is sad to see that our brothers and sisters on the Protestant side has such view of the Catholic Church.
i am a Christian i do not identify myself as a "protestant". The protestant movement did serve God in one way and that was to free the Word of God from the false authorities of the catholic church. The bible was first mass printed and distributed to the common people by protestants to show the world the corruption and falseness of the catholic church and praise be to God it does do just that. But many protestant churches still carry false traditions and vain thinking of men. The break form vain traditions is still an ongoing struggle within the churches, whatever be their tag.
The Catholic Church did not lock up the Word of God. In fact, it was the Catholic Church that first put together and cannonized that Holy Bible that you hold so dear.
For deception to reach it's full blossoming it takes many generations of patient twisting of scriptures. They could not do all their damage in the first generation. They had to include all the true scriptures, But that did not stop them adding uninspired books that where not originally added and later placing the false seal of authenticity on them. And of course it did not stop them slowly but surely building up layer upon layer of false doctrines that where and are in rebellion against The Word of the Messiah Jesus.
Peace be with you, Diana
May Salvation be with you and may you know the True Peace that comes from knowing Jesus without the bondage of false religion Diana.All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 

Diana

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Adstar;74272]You quote two scriptures let us read them in context also including the preceding verse to add clarity.[B]1 Corinthians 15[/B]1 Moreover said:
brethren[/B], I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,Note firstly the Word brethren Paul is talking to all those saints who received the letter to the Corinthians, the whole congregation, Not a singular person.
Hello Adstar, My brother, it is not the word "brethren" nor the "Lord's supper" that is in contention here. The fact remains that St. Paul did hand over authority over just as Jesus did and that is what I pointed out. Note also that Jesus handed over authority to more than 1 person. The Catholic Church recognized 14 Apostles altogether, which included St. Paul and St. Barnabus. St. Peter, however, was the leader of the Apostles, and he also had the authority to hand over his authority as the rest of the other Apostles.
Peter finalised the Word of God. the scriptures. That was the Authority that Jesus gave to him and to him only. The church was finished, build on Peter, Not on 20 ,30, 40 supposed successors.
The church was finished? Christ promised that He would be with His Church until the end of world (See Matthew 28:20), and Christ is the Head of that Church. So, how can He be with the Church until the end of the world if His Church ended in the first century? We know that Christ would not lie to us because He is the Truth; therefore, when He says that He will be with us until the end of the world, then that means His church still exists today. It isn't the end of the world yet. :)
Once again there is No Biblical support for this conclusion. Time and time again in the scripture where true Authority within the body of Christ was referenced it talks about the Elders Not the Elder.
There is a lot of biblical support showing that St. Peter was the leader of the Apostles. 1. Peter is ALWAYS named first when the Apostles are listed (See Mk. 3:16-19; Mat. 10:1-4; Lk. 6:12-16; and Acts 1:13). 2. Sometimes the Apostles are simply referred to as "Peter and his companions. (See Mk. 1:36; Lk. 9:32; Mk. 16:7)3. In John's Gospel, John waits for Peter before entering Jesus' tomb and allows him to go in first, a sign of honor and respect (See John 20:3-8). 4. In John's Gospel, Jesus singled out Peter as a shepherd of God's people by telling him three times to take care of His flock (See Jn. 21:15-17). 5. In the Acts of the Apostles, Peter's leadership is acknowledged in many ways: He was the first to proclaim the Gospel publically on the day of Pentecost (See Acts 2:14-20). He was the one who decided to allow an election of an Apostle to replace Judas (See Acts 1:15-20). He was the one who gave many of the major speeches in Acts (See Acts 3:12-26; 4:8-12; 5:3-9, 29-32; 8:20-23; 10:34-43; 11:4-18; 15:7-11). He was the one who commande the baptism of the Gentiles (See Acts 10:46-48). These are the evidences showing St. Peter's leadership. So, how can you deny what is written in the Holy Bible?
The Word of God is the Word of God and when ever it comes it will not go against the Word that God has established in the Bible. So all doctrine that comes our way can be measured against the template of the Bible to show it's validity or otherwise. The catholic churches false teachings are shown to be otherwise by the measure of the true Scriptures.
My brother, the Word of God does have a name. His name is Jesus Christ. He is a real person and He exists. The Bible is not the only Word of God. Jesus Christ is also the Word of God, and even your Holy Bible says so. The Word of God that came down in the flesh and dwelt among us was Jesus Christ (See Jn. 1:14). This Word of God is also the Head of the Church.
The bible clearly states that the Jewish people had fallen away from the Spirit of scriptures and fallen down because of the traditions of man. Jesus clearly pointed this out time and time again. So for the catholic church to base it's doctrine on the traditions of the corrupted Jewish cultural traditions is like building ones foundations in quicksand. Your point here does not solidify the traditions your church places above the Word of God it actually undermines them.
Yes, the Jewish people have sinned and you are correct that the Jews have fallen because they did not believe that Jesus is God. But we are also sinners. We have also fallen because we also sinned against God. However, despite that we are sinners, God does not abandon us. It's usually man who abandons God. God loves all sinners including the Jewish people. God said that the Jews are His chosen people, and today we Catholics still believe this because we know that God is Truth and He does not go back on His promises and word. Only man lies and breaks promises. If you think that the Jewish people are no longer His chosen, then that goes against the teachings of the Bible. No where in the Bible does it say that God takes back His promises. In fact, the Bible says that God's promises are irrevocable (See Romans 11:29). Jesus also built a church, but He built only one church. And the church He established is the church that fulfilled the prophecy spoken about in the Bible. My brother, God has always chosen the poor, the weak, the lowly, the humble, and the greatest sinner as His chosen one. He never choose the strong or the wealthest person. God always chooses the weak, the lowly, the humble, and the greatest sinner as His chosen ones and through them, His power is shown. Abraham was chosen because he was very old and his wife was barren. God's power made Abraham the father of many nations. David was also chosen, and he was only a shepherd boy, but it was this shepherd boy who had no military skills that defeated Goliath. This shepherd boy also became a king because only God had the power to turn a shepherd boy into a king. If David had been a warrior and a strong man, it would be easy for anyone to believe that David himself can become king on his own power. But a poor shepherd boy with no military skill to defeat a giant and later become king can only be a power coming from God. St. Paul was a great sinner as he murdered Christians, but he was God's chosen. The Hebrew people were chosen because they were slaves, and slaves are the poorest of the poor. However, this chosen race became a nation (Ex. 19:6). Moses told this group of people that they are God's chosen people, his priesthood, and a consecrated nation. St. Peter made a similar speech to the Christians. St. Peter told the Christians that they are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, and a consecrated nation (1 Peter 2:9). Of all the Christian denomination, ony the Catholic Church became a nation with the Pope as "Head of State." God's chosen people became a nation in time. God's chosen church also became a nation. Vatican City is a country just like Israel and the Pope is a "Head of State" just like the Prime Minister of Israel. History shows that the Catholic Church was not perfect. But, history also shows that God's chosen people (the Hebrews) were also not perfect, but out Israel came our Savior Jesus Christ. And out of God's chosen church came many saints. It was the Catholic Church that fulfilled the words spoken by St. Peter and even the prophecy spoken by our Blessed Mother. In the Bible, Mary predicted that all generations will call her "blessed." (Luke 1:48). We Catholics call her the "Blessed" Mother; therefore, even we fulfilled this prophecy. You, on the other hand, cannot fulfill this simple prophecy spoken of in the Holy Bible. However despite that we are of different Christian denominations, you are still my brother in Christ only because you believe in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as the Son of God who rose from the dead.
No it can only place its heritage back to the act of Spiritual harlotry that occurred between false christians and the liar or deceived Constantine who used them to gain worldly power. When they accepted the lie of Constantine they, like the Jews before them sought to have a worldly king over them. The day the Jews demanded to have a king over them was the darkest day in their history. Likewise the day that these joined with Constantine.
My brother, I have already provided a weblink in my previous post showing that the Catholic Church can trace its roots all the way back to the first century - to the Apostle Peter. The list of popes are even recorded in an Almanac.
For deception to reach it's full blossoming it takes many generations of patient twisting of scriptures. They could not do all their damage in the first generation. They had to include all the true scriptures, But that did not stop them adding uninspired books that where not originally added and later placing the false seal of authenticity on them. And of course it did not stop them slowly but surely building up layer upon layer of false doctrines that where and are in rebellion against The Word of the Messiah Jesus.
My brother, the early Christians never used the Palestianian Canon, which is what your Bible consist of. Jesus and the Apostles had always used the Alexandrian Canon because this was the Torah that was used before Christ was born. It was until AFTER Christ died when the Jewish Council of Jamnia removed all the books written in Greek from their Torah and Tanach in the year 90 AD. The Apostles and early Christians, on the other hand, never removed it because they did not follow the Jews. Below is a weblink showing the truth about the Jewish Council of Jamnia. I included a quote from that weblink, and you can read the entire weblink. By the 4th Century, the Catholic Church put together and cannonized only the New Testament books. The Old Testaments were left as it was. The Catholics followed the Alexandrian Jews version because that was the Torah and Tanach that Jesus and the Apostles used. And as I said, we are the Church that Christ built and we followed the same Old Testament (Torah and Tanach) that Christ and Apostles used. At the end of the first century, the Jewish council changed their Torah and Tanach by adopting the Palestinian Canon, which is what you followed.
The canon of the Old Testament that Catholics use is based on the text used by Alexandrian Jews, a version known as the "Septuagint" (also called "LXX" or "The Seventy") and which came into being around 280 B.C. as a translation of then existing texts from Hebrew into Greek by 72 Jewish scribes (the Torah was translated first, around 300 B.C., and the rest of Tanach was translated afterward).It was a standard Jewish version of the Old Testament, used by the writers of the New Testament, as is evidenced by the fact that Old Testament references found in the New Testament refer to the Septuagint over other versions of the Old Testament. Let me reiterate: the then 300+ year old Septuagint version of Scripture was good enough for Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul, etc., which is evident in their referencing it over 300 times (out of 350 Old Testament references!) in their New Testament writings -- and the Septuagint includes 7 books and parts of Esther and Daniel that were removed from Protestant Bibles some 1,500 years after the birth of Christ.The Septuagint is the Old Testament referred to in the Didache or "Doctrine of the Apostles" (first century Christian writings) and by Origen, Irenaeus of Lyons, Hippolytus, Tertullian, Cyprian of Carthage, Justin Martyr, St. Augustine and the vast majority of early Christians who referenced Scripture in their writings. The Epistle of Pope Clement, written in the first century, refers to the Books Ecclesiasticus and Wisdom, analyzed the book of Judith, and quotes sections of the book of Esther that were removed from Protestant Bibles.
http://www.fisheaters.com/septuagint.htmlPeace be with you, Diana
 

Diana

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[quote name='Adstar;74272]I am a man. And i am no brother in Jesus of yours at this current time. Hopefully through the convicting power of the Holy Spirit this will change soon.[/QUOTE] How sad. :( It was Jesus and the Catholic Church who preached that we should love our neighbor and our enemies. The Catholic Church even teach us that we are all brothers and sisters because all men were created in the image of God. As a matter of fact' date=' when St. Paul spoke to the pagans in Athens, he called them offsprings of God, indicating that he also considered them his brothers. (See Acts 17:26-29). After all, even the Bible traced Jesus' lineage all the way back to Adam (the first man) to show that he was bonded with the entire human race and not just to Abraham. [QUOTE']May Salvation be with you and may you know the True Peace that comes from knowing Jesus without the bondage of false religion Diana.[/QUOTE]My brother, it was the Catholic Church who preached that all mankind are brothers and sisters because all were created in the image of God. This is the same teaching that St. Paul taught when he addressed the pagans in Athens. In your church, you were taught not to call me your sister. In my church, we were taught that all mankind are brothers and sisters because all were made in God's image. Therefore, I will stay with the Catholic Church because their teaching is the same as the Holy Bible. Nowhere in the Holy Bible did it say that we are supposed to hate our neighbor or even our enemies. I will pray that the Holy Spirit will send a little candle to light your way out of the darkness you put yourself in. Peace be with you, Diana
 

soulja boy

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You are mistaken. The Catholic Church can trace its history all the way back to the Apostle Peter because it is an "Apostolic church." The successor of the Apostle Peter after he was executed was St. Linus. Below is a weblink showing all the list of Popes and the dates they became Pope all the way back to the Apostle Peter. This is on record even on an Almanac.
I have a very simple faith. It goes like this. The bible is the word of God and if the bible says it must be right. Now, having read the bible many times and having a theological degree, I have yet to find that the "pope" is mentioned once.Now that tells me the pope never existed, therefore it must be a fabrication of man.What the bible does talk about is "elders" 17 times, apostles and prophets in terms of leadership of the church. That being the case, a pope is an invention of man's imagination, not a revelation of God. If we conceed the pope is of God's making, we also have to accept the position of archdeacon, reverend, right reverend, curate, priest, father, the very reverend, vicar, senior pastor etc as also of God's making according to scripture.Of course, none of them are supported by scripture so for me the answer is simple. They are all of man's creation, not God's. In scripture it only talks about the priesthood of all believers as in everyone is priest to God and a priest of the New Covenant.In addition, in the original greek, there is no such thing as priest/laity divide. That was invented many years later by an apostate church. By the way, have you noticed that the Roman Catholic church is not mentioned once in scripture. There is only one church and that is his church and it has no name beyond "his church" or the "body of christ" with him as the head, not the pope. Sorry to say there is no hope for the pope. I don't think he would want to go to heaven because there is no palace waiting for him there.
 

soulja boy

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St. Peter told the Christians that they are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, and a consecrated nation (1 Peter 2:9). Of all the Christian denomination, ony the Catholic Church became a nation with the Pope as "Head of State." God's chosen people became a nation in time. God's chosen church also became a nation. Vatican City is a country just like Israel and the Pope is a "Head of State" just like the Prime Minister of Israel. History shows that the Catholic Church was not perfect. But, history also shows that God's chosen people (the Hebrews) were also not perfect, but out Israel came our Savior Jesus Christ. And out of God's chosen church came many saints.
I know that the RC church has been telling us for years that they are the one true church, but that idea is not supported by scripture as the RC is never mentioned in the scriptures. in fact Paul made it quite clear he did not approve of denominations (factions in the Corinthian church) neither did Jesus because he prayed that we would be one as he and the Father were one. Your statment that the RC church became a nation with the pope as head is again wishful thinking. Peter wrote to God's elect, chosen according to the foreknowledge of God. If you are a born again believer, then you are part of the body of Christ and part of his royal priesthood and part of his holy nation.The roman church has no authority whatsoever to say we are the church and the pope is head of it. There is only one head and that is Jesus Christ himself. No where has he appointed a human to head the church. He doesn't need to because we are all one in Christ and that is possible because he is the head. The pope is nothing more than a figurehead of a religious organisation that has done more damage than good and deceived its followers into thinking that they can earn their salvation, which is the opposite to what scripture says.I worked for a catholic organisation and almost without exception, the committed catholics all said the same thing. They hope that the good they did on earth will one day be sufficient to earn their salvation. Such a concept makes a mockery of the death of Christ on calvary and salvation by grace.They went to mass out of fear that if they didn't they would not be good enough for God. One of them went to mass every day of the week before work and I don't know how many times on the weekend as he was terrified of not making the grade. He could not understand why I didn't do the same and I tried to explain to him that I am already saved by the grace of God and nothing I do can add or make any difference to what God has already done. By the way, I am one of God's saints so you can call me Saint Roger. As a matter of interest, every born again believer is a saint. Once again the idea of a saint as someone special who is cannonised is not in scripture. Another of the RC church's man made ideas.
 

Adstar

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Hello Diana Sadly you are resisting the truth of the Word of God and have placed your faith in the false teachings of men who have twisted the Word of God to conform it to the needs of the kings of this world. For the sake of those who a reading on i will continue to post on this topic to counter the deceptions you wilfully work to spread. You are responsible for your reactions to the revelation of the Word of God. May you come to the truth before you die. May you be forgiven.
Diana;74290]Hello Adstar said:
I did not deny Peter's Leadership at the time of His life. Here again you twist the meaning of my Words in a cheap and unchristianly tactic of debate. The Gospels stance is that Peter was the Leader who would establish the Church. I believe this. This discussion is not about the leadership of Peter it is about the transferability of that leadership. I have already shown that the verse quotes you gave as justification for this false doctrine had nothing to do with the topic to which you falsely claimed they where about. The truth of the Gospel stands. The catholic church cannot fool those who are well read in scriptures. And it was this very reason they sought to prevent the Word of God being read for centuries.
My brother, the Word of God does have a name. His name is Jesus Christ. He is a real person and He exists. The Bible is not the only Word of God. Jesus Christ is also the Word of God, and even your Holy Bible says so. The Word of God that came down in the flesh and dwelt among us was Jesus Christ (See Jn. 1:14). This Word of God is also the Head of the Church.
You are Not my Brother in Jesus. Please stop referring to me as such. As i said before No message that comes can contradict the Word of God in the Bible.
Yes, the Jewish people have sinned and you are correct that the Jews have fallen because they did not believe that Jesus is God.
They fell because they did not trust in the guidance of God but with pride they went down the path to destruction lead by the thoughts and doctrines of men.
But we are also sinners. We have also fallen because we also sinned against God. However, despite that we are sinners, God does not abandon us. It's usually man who abandons God.
Sin does not cause us to fall from grace. Jesus came to save Sinners and we are forgiven all our sins both past and future because we trust in the atoning sacrifice of the Messiah Jesus for our forgiveness.
God loves all sinners including the Jewish people.God said that the Jews are His chosen people, and today we Catholics still believe this because we know that God is Truth and He does not go back on His promises and word. Only man lies and breaks promises. If you think that the Jewish people are no longer His chosen, then that goes against the teachings of the Bible.
Any man who rejects the Messiah Jesus will not have eternity with God. That is what i believe. Apart from that I believe that God will save a remnant of the Jewish people. There is no inconsistency with God. So yes God will save a remnant of the decedents of Abraham 144,000 innocents. But any Jew who rejects the Messiah Jesus as his or her Messiah will not be saved.
No where in the Bible does it say that God takes back His promises. In fact, the Bible says that God's promises are irrevocable (See Romans 11:29). Jesus also built a church, but He built only one church. And the church He established is the church that fulfilled the prophecy spoken about in the Bible.
The one church has existed since the day of Pentecost. it is not a Church of buildings, hierarchy’s, burnings at the stake, crusades and political harlotry with the kings of this world. But it is a Body of believers all guided by the Holy Spirit.
My brother, God has always chosen the poor, the weak, the lowly, the humble, and the greatest sinner as His chosen one. He never choose the strong or the wealthest person. God always chooses the weak, the lowly, the humble, and the greatest sinner as His chosen ones and through them, His power is shown.
God works With the contrite and they can be rich or poor strong or weak, Even a rich man of power can come to the realization that he is a sinner needing the gift of salvation that Jesus gives freely to all that believe Him.
Abraham was chosen because he was very old and his wife was barren.
No. He chose Abraham because Abraham believed and trusted God.Galatian 35 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
God's power made Abraham the father of many nations. David was also chosen, and he was only a shepherd boy, but it was this shepherd boy who had no military skills that defeated Goliath. This shepherd boy also became a king because only God had the power to turn a shepherd boy into a king. If David had been a warrior and a strong man, it would be easy for anyone to believe that David himself can become king on his own power. But a poor shepherd boy with no military skill to defeat a giant and later become king can only be a power coming from God.
Goliath had no chance against David. the scriptures tell of the deadly skill David possessed. ( if you read the scriptures you might have known this)1 Samuel 1734 But David said to Saul, “Your servant used to keep his father’s sheep, and when a lion or a bear came and took a lamb out of the flock, 35 I went out after it and struck it, and delivered the lamb from its mouth; and when it arose against me, I caught it by its beard, and struck and killed it. 36 Your servant has killed both lion and bear; and this uncircumcised Philistine will be like one of them, seeing he has defied the armies of the living God.”Does not sound like a hopeless child in front of Goliath does he. Goliath had no chance against a sing armed David. David was deadly with a sling and the slow moving giant was a sitting duck.Yes David became King and that was both the doing of Saul who did not trust in God and went stray from His guidance and also Gods doing to see to it that David replaced Saul.
St. Paul was a great sinner as he murdered Christians, but he was God's chosen. The Hebrew people were chosen because they were slaves, and slaves are the poorest of the poor.
What is this with the continuous reference to the poor and being poor ? There is no indication that Abraham was poor. The determining factor was not the wealth or otherwise of Abraham. But the Will of God and the trusting of Abraham in following His will. Abraham was known to own a heard of beasts, for all we know He may have been considered a wealthy man compared to most people of his time.
However, this chosen race became a nation (Ex. 19:6). Moses told this group of people that they are God's chosen people, his priesthood, and a consecrated nation. St. Peter made a similar speech to the Christians. St. Peter told the Christians that they are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, and a consecrated nation (1 Peter 2:9). Of all the Christian denomination, ony the Catholic Church became a nation with the Pope as "Head of State." God's chosen people became a nation in time. God's chosen church also became a nation. Vatican City is a country just like Israel and the Pope is a "Head of State" just like the Prime Minister of Israel.
:) Thank be to God.Jesus made it quite clear that His Kingdom was NOT of this world. Why don't you believe Him?John 1836 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”Well... Do you believe Jesus or not?And when will the Kingdoms of this world become under the control of Jesus?Revelation 1115 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” 16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying: “ We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come,[g] Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”This is a Prophecy of the time of the return of the Messiah Jesus. The second coming, That is when Jesus will take control of the kingdoms of the World. Not before.
History shows that the Catholic Church was not perfect. But, history also shows that God's chosen people (the Hebrews) were also not perfect, but out Israel came our Savior Jesus Christ. And out of God's chosen church came many saints.
Jesus was a Product of the Holy Spirit. He was not a man who later became divine, He did not become one of the three during His Physical time on earth. Jesus never sinned because He was from God. And ALL people who believe Jesus and trust in His atoning work are Saints. The teaching that only a few are saints is just another vain thinking of men that have spewed forth from the catholic church for centuries.
It was the Catholic Church that fulfilled the words spoken by St. Peter and even the prophecy spoken by our Blessed Mother. In the Bible, Mary predicted that all generations will call her "blessed." (Luke 1:48). We Catholics call her the "Blessed" Mother; therefore, even we fulfilled this prophecy.You, on the other hand, cannot fulfill this simple prophecy spoken of in the Holy Bible.
Easy. Mary was blessed to be Chosen to be the one who bore the Messiah Jesus. There you go Done. :D And i have never said anything different. The catholic church however has used Mary as a centrepiece of an abominable cult of human worship.
However despite that we are of different Christian denominations, you are still my brother in Christ only because you believe in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as the Son of God who rose from the dead.
Once again i am not your brother in Christ because you are not a follower of Christ.
My brother, I have already provided a weblink in my previous post showing that the Catholic Church can trace its roots all the way back to the first century - to the Apostle Peter. The list of popes are even recorded in an Almanac.
Almanac produced by whom? History written by whom?The Word of God and the Holy Spirit reveals the catholic church as a false religion. A case of spiritual harlotry with the powers that be of this world. They gave up following Jesus for the support and security of the kings of this world.All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 

Diana

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soulja boy;74335]I know that the RC church has been telling us for years that they are the one true church said:
By the way, I am one of God's saints so you can call me Saint Roger. As a matter of interest, every born again believer is a saint.
You see, my brother, this is the difference between what my church teaches me and what your church teaches you. It is so easy for you to say that you are a saint. Me? I am a sinner. My church teaches humility. Even Mother Teresa says that she was a sinner. Peace be with you, Diana
 

Adstar

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Diana;74297]How sad. :( It was Jesus and the Catholic Church who preached that we should love our neighbor and our enemies. The Catholic Church even teach us that we are all brothers and sisters because all men were created in the image of God. As a matter of fact said:
Yes again brothers and sisters in the flesh but not in Jesus.
Nowhere in the Holy Bible did it say that we are supposed to hate our neighbor or even our enemies. I will pray that the Holy Spirit will send a little candle to light your way out of the darkness you put yourself in.
Where have i said that i hate you? Do you think i have spent all this effort to try and reach you because i hate you? Indeed i love you, trully love you because i am willing to walk an extra mile with you. Do not paint me as one who hates you. I love my mother and do you know my mother is a catholic? I was born into a catholic family, i was myself an altar boy and my uncle is a catholic priest. I do not hate them either. i weep for them.Indeed my words reveal a hatred of false teachings and diabolical deception. God said to hate what is evil and love what is good. I hate all lies that have been told in the name of Jesus and the catholic church has told many lies, her cup is full of the abominations of false doctrines.So your attempt to paint me as some kind of hate filled bigot is as unjust and decietful as your attempts to twist what i have said in my post to you before. Step back from yourself. Step back from your pride. Step back from your loyalty to men. We are talking here about the most serious issue of our lives with Eternal ramifications. We must be prepared to forsake anything for Jesus. All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 

Adstar

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By the way, I am one of God's saints so you can call me Saint Roger. As a matter of interest, every born again believer is a saint.
You see, my brother, this is the difference between what my church teaches me and what your church teaches you. It is so easy for you to say that you are a saint. Me? I am a sinner. My church teaches humility. Even Mother Teresa says that she was a sinner.
Where is Roger claiming sinlessness? He is claiming to be a Saint. Saying that one is a Saint is not making a claim to sinlessness. The belief that Saints are sinless is a false and lying tradition of the catholic church. I am a Saint. I believe Jesus and trust in His atoning work for my eternal salvation. i was a sinner yesterday. i am a sinner today. and if God grants me that i will live on tomorrow, i will be a sinner tomorrow also.But i am a Saint along with all those who believe Jesus.All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 

Diana

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Adstar;74348]Where is Roger claiming sinlessness? He is claiming to be a Saint. Saying that one is a Saint is not making a claim to sinlessness. The belief that Saints are sinless is a false and lying tradition of the catholic church. I am a Saint. I believe Jesus and trust in His atoning work for my eternal salvation. i was a sinner yesterday. i am a sinner today. and if God grants me that i will live on tomorrow said:
Adstar, in the Bible, the Greek word of "Saint" is "hagios" according to Strongs biblical definition. It means "most holy thing, a saint." I don't consider myself holy. I am a sinner, and my church teaches humility.
 

Adstar

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[quote name='Diana;74350]Adstar' date=' in the Bible, the Greek word of "Saint" is "hagios" according to Strongs biblical definition. It means "most holy thing, a saint." I don't consider myself holy. I am a sinner, and my church teaches humility.[/QUOTE']Here is Paul again. Read and may you understand.1 Corrinthians 1To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:We are sanctified/holy because we are in Christ. It has nothing to do with pride or humility. Our Sanctity is the sanctity of the blood of Jesus that covers us that believe Him. So that we are to God blameless.If you church teaches one can only have pride if they achieve Sainthood then they are teaching wrong because all Glory and all Honour and All boasting goes to Jesus Chrst in whom we are sanctified. There can be no boasting in men or women like teresa. Remember that all our attempts at righteousness are as filthy rags compared to the righteousness of God.Isaiah 646 But we are all like an unclean thing,And all our righteousness are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 

Diana

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Nov 1, 2009
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Adstar;74358]Here is Paul again. Read and may you understand.[B]1 Corrinthians 1[/B]We are sanctified/holy because we are in Christ. It has nothing to do with pride or humility. Our Sanctity is the sanctity of the blood of Jesus that covers us that believe Him. So that we are to God blameless.If you church teaches one can only have pride if they achieve Sainthood then they are teaching wrong because all Glory and all Honour and All boasting goes to Jesus Chrst in whom we are sanctified. There can be no boasting in men or women like teresa. Remember that all our attempts at righteousness are as filthy rags compared to the righteousness of God.Isaiah 646 But we are all like an unclean thing said:
all our righteousness are like filthy rags[/B]; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away.All Praise The Ancient Of Days
My Christian brother, my church teaches that pride is one of the seven sins of mankind. We are not to have pride even when someone calls us a "saint." This word in Greek, when translated into English means "holy." Pride can do a lot of damage. If a person constantly hear people applauding him and calling him a saint, it would only be a matter of time when he start to think that he is better or even holier than anyone else....and that is pride. That is a sin.Haven't you notice that in all the scriptures, none of the Apostles, including Jesus ever boasted and said, "I am a saint." They either equate or humble themselves before others, even in their own writings, but they never put themselves above anyone. When using the word "saint," St. Paul wrote the words "we" or "our." He never said "I." It is the same with our priests and nuns. My priest would always say "We are called to be saints" or "You are called to be a saint" but he never said "I." Also, Mother Theresa never said that she was a saint. She had always said that she was a sinner. It is always OTHER people calling her "a saint" or "the saint of the gutters." Even the Pope had to remind himself that when the people in his own country of Germany greeted him with such great applause, the Pope wrote in one of his letters that the applause coming from his country is not about him. He had to remind himself of that many times because he is not there to serve his country. He is there to serve God. Peace be with you, Diana
 

soulja boy

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Now, are you going to tell me that your church is full of saints, righteous, and just people?
Yes if you want me to but I would rather let the scriptures speak for themselves.A few verses about saints. Note that there were thousands of them in the NT church; there is no mention of any of them being canonised; no mention of any of them doing two miracles; no mention of them being put on pedestal; no mention of them being dead. In fact their was no pope to cannonise them. If you are rightly dividing the Word of truth there is only one conclusion you can come to. They are not a special class just every day believers who lived their lives as normal people with the exception of being born again and devoted to the kingdom of God. Act 9:32 And it happened, passing through all, Peter also came down to the saints who lived at Lydda.NOTE: How could he? You have to be dead before you are a saint accoridng to the RC church. Act 9:41 And he gave her his hand and lifted her up. And when he had called the saints and widows, he presented her alive. NOTE: How could he call them if they were dead?Act 26:10 which I also did in Jerusalem. And I shut up many of the saints in prisons, having received authority from the chief priests. NOTE: You can't put a dead saint in prison. Rom 1:7 to all those who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.NOTE: No mention of the pope making them saints. Rom 8:27 And He searching the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.NOTE: Intercession for dead people!!! Rom 12:13 distributing to the needs of the saints, pursuing hospitality.NOTE: If they are dead, why do they have needs? Rom 15:25 But now I am going to Jerusalem to minister to the saints.NOTE: How do you minister to a dead person? Rom 15:26 For it has pleased those of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints in Jerusalem. NOTE: How is a dead person poor? A dead person doesn't need anything.Rom 15:31 that I may be delivered from those disbelieving in Judea, and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted by the saints;NOTE: What saints? Rom 16:2 that you receive her in the Lord, as becomes saints, and that you may assist her in whatever business she has need of you. For she has been a helper of many, and of myself also.NOTE: How do dead saints give material provisions? Rom 16:15 Greet Philologus and Julias, Nereus and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints with them.NOTE: All the saints. When were they cannonised? 1Co 6:1 Do any of you dare, when you have a matter against another, to go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? NOTE: How can dead saints judge a case?1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.NOTE: Appears to be that the churches are full of saints. Who cannonised them? 1Co 16:1 And concerning the collection for the saints, as I charged the churches of Galatia, so also you do. NOTE: Why would the saints need money if they are dead?1Co 16:15 But I exhort you, brothers. You know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruit of Achaia, and they appointed themselves to ministry to the saints.NOTE: Ministry to DEAD saints!!!! 2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, to the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in all Achaia. NOTE: To ALL the saints, not a select few.2Co 8:4 with much beseeching, begging us that they might receive of us the grace and the fellowship of the ministry to the saints. 2Co 9:1 For indeed regarding the ministry to the saints, it is not necessary for me to write to you. 2Co 9:12 For the ministry of this service not only supplies the things lacking of the saints, but also multiplying through many thanksgivings to God,NOTE: How can dead saints lack? 2Co 13:13 All the saints greet you.NOTE: Do they talk to us from the grave by a spiritist medium? Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus. NOTE: Who cannonised all these saints?Eph 1:15 Therefore I also, hearing of your faith in the Lord Jesus and love to all the saints, Eph 1:18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened, that you may know what is the hope of His calling, and what is the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, NOTE: Why did he want them to know what inheritance dead saints get?Eph 3:8 This grace is given to me (who am less than the least of all saints) to preach the gospel of the unsearchable riches of Christ among the nations, Note: Who cannonised him?Eph 3:18 may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height, NOTE: None had died so how can they be saints?Eph 4:12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ. NOTE: No use perfecting them after they are dead.Eph 5:3 For let fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness not be once named among you, as becomes saints,NOTE: How does a dead saint fornicate? Eph 6:18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching to this very thing with all perseverance and supplication for all saints. NOTE: According to the roman church the saints pray for you, not you for them.BLAMLESSObviously being blameless was a common concept in the NT church and was expected as a normal part of life for the believer. Php 2:15 so that you may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation. Among these you shine as lights in the world, 1Th 5:23 And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blamelessly at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1Ti 3:2 Then it behooves the overseer to be blameless, husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, well-ordered, hospitable, apt at teaching; 1Ti 3:10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 1Ti 5:7 And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless. Tit 1:6 if anyone is blameless, husband of one wife, having believing children, not accused of loose behavior, or disobedient. Tit 1:7 For an overseer must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not full of passion, not given to wine, not quarrelsome, not greedy for gain;
 

Diana

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Nov 1, 2009
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[quote name='soulja boy;74389]Yes if you want me to but I would rather let the scriptures speak for themselves. [/QUOTE] This also goes to show that you didn't bother to read my post. Yes' date=' I can see from all the Scripture that you provided STILL both St. Luke and St. Paul never came out and bragged that they were a saint. When they used the word "saint," (which is translated to mean "holy") they always used it in the plural tense rather than referring it ONLY to themselves. How easy it is for you to say that YOU are holy. Well, my brother, I will say this for you. You are correct, YOU are indeed holy as you say. :) And yes, I agree with you that your church is indeed full of holy, righteous, and just people just as you say. As for me. my dear brother, I am a sinner. You and your church is better than I am because I am a sinner. [QUOTE']Eph. 3:8 This grace is given to me (who am less than the least of all saints) to preach the gospel of the unsearchable riches of Christ among the nations, Note: Who cannonised him?[/QUOTE] Oh, look at that! I just love this Scripture that you provided! :) As anyone can see, St. Paul says that he is "less than the least of all saints." :) And you asked "who cannonized him? :)
 
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