Why divorce is not an option for Christians?

Diana · Nov 7, 2009

Christina;74439]You can claim whatever you like to defend your religion However its still just what men have convinced you is true ... Any person who thinks a man has the right to forgive sin or can tell another when they can or cannot have communion with God is under a mis conception/delusiuon. Your priest is only a man appointed by men taught by men. He is but a sinner like all the rest of us. [FONT=Arial]John 20:23[/FONT][I][FONT=Arial] "Whose soever sins ye remit said:
[/I] This is misunderstood by many people. No man can forgive another man's sins, for only God can forgive sin, and then only in Jesus name.To claim other wise is a sin and borders on blasheme The Holy Spirit was in them, and it was the Holy Spirit from within that would give the conviction to the other person's spirit. The Spirit of God would move on the other man's spirit, not from the spirit of that Apostles.

Yes, Jesus gave them the Holy Spirit, and the Apostles went out to forgive sins or to retain them. So, why is it so difficult for you to believe that God has also sent the Holy Spirit to our priests, our bishops, and even to us?. Do you not know that the Holy Spirit was also sent to the people of Samaria (See Acts 8:14-17). Why is it so difficult for you to believe that the Holy Spirit can live in you? I already know that the Holy Spirit lives in me.My sister, we did not follow man. It was you who followed man when you stated that "man cannot forgive sins." It was Jesus who commanded us to forgive the sins of others (See Matthew 6:14-15), and you say that "NO MAN can forgive sins??????"We know that God can forgive sins, but Jesus also sent His Holy Spirit to our priests and bishops to also forgive sins just as He did to the Apostles. It was the Pharisees who teach that "man cannot forgive sins," and this is a teaching rejected by Christ. We followed Christ.

we are to pray for one another, after you have confessed your sins to our Heavenly Father, and prayed for forgiveness for yourself. When you are right with God, then He will seek to answer your prayers within His will.

That is not what St. James stated in scripture, my sister. The part of the scripture that I bolded is the part that you deliberately ignored. James 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much

Christina · Nov 7, 2009

I didnt address it because it unimportant, so what it also says admonish each other, but that doesnt mean we can decide each others final judgement. it also says pray together but we cant answers each other prayerss only God can telling you or your priest my sins doesnt forgive them and the person/priest doesnt replace Christ and its not a command

Diana · Nov 7, 2009

Christina;74453]I didnt address it because it unimportant said:
You didn't address it because it proved that your statement "No man can forgive sins" goes against the Word of God. I never said that our priest replaced Christ. Where in my post did I ever say that?????? The Apostles never replaced Christ. It was Christ who gave them the authority to forgive sins through the Holy Spirit that was given to them. It is the same way with our priests and bishops. When Christ told the Apostles to baptize the nations and that whatever sins they forgive will be forgiven and sins that they retain will be retain.....that was indeed a command coming from Christ. And the Apostles did exactly what they were commanded to do. The Holy Spirit that lives inside us also tells us to forgive one another, and this is what we follow. Unlike you, we never take the stand that "no man can forgive." I also never said that the church decides the final judgement. Where in my post did I ever say that?????? We have always known that Christ is the only one who judges. When a person forgives another person, that is not judging. Christ told us to always forgive. Every priest that I know have always forgiven the sins of the confessors. As a matter of fact, even the Apostles themselves have always forgiven despite the fact that Christ gave them the authority to retain sins. Why? Because they are also called not to judge.

mjrhealth · Nov 7, 2009

No one but Christ can forgive sins, as God gave Him the authority, we can only forgive those who offend, sin against us. Forgiveness of sin by a priest is wrong, came about through religion, we are supposed to Go to Jesus, but sadly He holds second place to priests and vicars and the such. Oh how religion has undone the wonderful work That Christ did on the cross, always requiring us to do something ( penance), where Jesus just said," your sins are forgiven".In His Love

Christina · Nov 7, 2009

Catholics never say priest replace Christ . They just put them between Christ and men ... God appointed the apostels and gave them the full knowledge of God men appoint priests, Priest are not apostels nor do they have the authority from God. They are just sinful men I didnt say you said anything about judgement. Its just another examlpe of what scripture says, but its not to be taken literally over the top anymore than James statement. It makes little differance to me what religion you believe ..But this is a Bible study site and the bible says no one can forgive sins but God in the name of Jesus Christ .. So if you want to confess to priest be my guest but the sin is not forgiven. And requiring someone to confess to a priest before they can take communion is putting a man between the sinner and God is a sin in itself. Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.1Ti 2:5For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

mjrhealth · Nov 7, 2009

Agree Christina, men put men between them and Christ, ther is but only one High priest. Jesus. why are people so afraid of going to Him.In His lOve

n2thelight · Nov 7, 2009

DianaMy sister, the Bible does say that a man can confess to a priest. Jesus gave the authority to the Apostles (who were men) to go out and forgive sins or even retain sins (See John 20:22-23). In order for the Apostles to forgive sins, they need to hear confessions and Jesus gave them this authority. This is what we call the Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation, and it was instituted by Christ. So yes, Jesus did put a man between the offender and God. Furthermore, Scripture also says that it is okay to confess our sins to one another (See James 5:16). Therefore, we are still in line with the Bible. John 20:22-23 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.James 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Luke 23:45 "And the sun was darkened, and the vail of the Temple was rent in the midst." That vail that separated the holy of holies from the people in the temple was very heavy and thick. It ripped in two, when the darkness came over the earth. It was ripped from the top to the bottom, the very vail that covered the holy of holies. This meant that after the crucifixion, anyone could enter the presence of Almighty God, and His Son, Jesus Christ. You can enter the presence of the Holy Spirit and be lead by our Father. The holy of holies is open now for all souls, Israel and Gentile alike to approach the Father in repentance. The price was paid at the instant that our Lord gave up His Spirit, and went to paradise to preach to the lost souls that died before that time. We need confess our sins only to God...Period...

jerryjohnson · Nov 7, 2009

n2thelight;74463][SIZE=3][/SIZE][SIZE=3][/SIZE] [B][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/B][SIZE=3][FONT=Arial]Luke 23:45[/FONT][I][FONT=Arial] "And the sun was darkened said:
[/I][/SIZE] That vail that separated the holy of holies from the people in the temple was very heavy and thick. It ripped in two, when the darkness came over the earth. It was ripped from the top to the bottom, the very vail that covered the holy of holies. This meant that after the crucifixion, anyone could enter the presence of Almighty God, and His Son, Jesus Christ. You can enter the presence of the Holy Spirit and be lead by our Father. The holy of holies is open now for all souls, Israel and Gentile alike to approach the Father in repentance. The price was paid at the instant that our Lord gave up His Spirit, and went to paradise to preach to the lost souls that died before that time. We need confess our sins only to God...Period...

Amen! We need confess our sins only to God!

Diana · Nov 7, 2009

Christina;74460]Catholics never say priest replace Christ . They just put them between Christ and men ... God appointed the apostels and gave them the full knowledge of God men appoint priests said:
My sister, once again, you went against the Word of God. The Bible does say that the Apostles were priests. St. Paul stated that he was a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher (See 2 Timothy 1:11). A preacher is a priest. Therefore, a priest was NEVER created by men. The office of the priesthood was created by God since the time of Moses. (See Ex. 29:44). You went against the Bible again. So yes, since the Apostles were priests and were given the Holy Spirit to forgive sins, so too are our priests and bishop given this same Holy Spirit to forgive sins. Why is it so difficult for you to believe that the Holy Spirit can live in a person? You went against the teachings of the Bible.

It makes little differance to me what religion you believe ..But this is a Bible study site and the bible says no one can forgive sins but God in the name of Jesus Christ ..

Click to expand...

Saying that no one can forgive sins but God is against the Bible. It is against the Scriptures found in James 5:16 and Matthew 6:14-15 and I have been able to use scripture to support my side. You went against those scriptures. The Catholic Church did not go against any scripture because we already knew that the office of the priesthood was established by God since the days of Moses, and this priesthood still lived on. Rev. 1:5-6.....To Him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by His blood, who made us into a kingdom, priests for His God and Father, to Him be glroy and poewr forever and ever. Amen.

Christina · Nov 7, 2009

Diana;74469]My sister said:
The office of the priesthood was created by God since the time of Moses.[/B] (See Ex. 29:44). You went against the Bible again. So yes, since the Apostles were priests and were given the Holy Spirit to forgive sins, so too are our priests and bishop given this same Holy Spirit to forgive sins. Why is it so difficult for you to believe that the Holy Spirit can live in a person? You went against the teachings of the Bible.

Are you joking me ? what a twist on words and scripture I only said the aspostels were chosen by Christ/God that is personally hand picked by the Lord ...They were given the full knowledge of God through the holy ghost now if you understood this you would understand ... That though everyone who professes to belive upon Christ has his spirit awakened and becomes a new man in Christ ...That is not the same things as having the holy Ghost come on you and be given the full knowledge of God this occured on Penecost day was a miracle only repeated ome other time in scripture and thats future ... and your priests were not there on Penecost day they did not receive the miracle ....they are but men chosen by men no differnt than confessing to the person in church next to you ...so its you who fails to follow scripture and add your own religious spin of men. Of course I realize they dont teach you this stuff or they would have to admit their error. for that I am sorry Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.1Ti 2:5For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Diana · Nov 7, 2009

Diana;74469] Rev. 1:5-6.....To Him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by His blood said:
who made us into a kingdom, priests for His God and Father[/B], to Him be glroy and poewr forever and ever. Amen.

By the way, St. John was the one who wrote Revelations and in this Scripture, he even called himself a priest.

n2thelight · Nov 7, 2009

Diana Saying that no one can forgive sins but God is against the Bible. It is against the Scriptures found in James 5:16 and Matthew 6:14-15 and I have been able to use scripture to support my side. You went against those scriptures. The Catholic Church did not go against any scripture because we already knew that the office of the priesthood was established by God since the days of Moses, and this priesthood still lived on.

If man could forgive sins Christ would not have had to die on the cross...

Diana · Nov 7, 2009

Christina;74470]Are you joking me ? what a twist on words and scripture I only said the aspostels were chosen by Christ/God that is [B]personally hand picked by the Lord[/B] ...They were given the full knowledge of God through the holy ghost now if you understood this you would understand ... [/QUOTE] Excuse me.....Below is what you posted said:
Catholics never say priest replace Christ . They just put them between Christ and men ... God appointed the apostels and gave them the full knowledge of God men appoint priests, Priest are not apostels nor do they have the authority from God. They are just sinful men

What I placed in bold goes against the teachings of the Bible. The office of priesthood was established by God since the time of Moses. Priests existed during and AFTER Christ died on the cross. The Apostles were priests. St. John who wrote Revelations also called himself a priest (See Revelations 1:5-6). The office of priesthood from the Apostles was carried on even after Christ died.

and your priests were not there on Penecost day they did not receive the miracle ....they are but men chosen by men no differnt than confessing to the person in church next to you ...

Excuse me....are you now saying that God cannot call people today????? Just because a person is not there at Pentecost does not mean that God did not call them. Tell me.... did you feel God calling you? I know He called me. If He can call you, what makes you think He didn't call our priests, bishops, deacons, and nuns?

Christina · Nov 7, 2009

And again if you were not trying to justify a religion of men you could put this proper context and quote the next verse Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of [mourn over] Him. Even so, A-men."This event is the second advent taking place here, when Jesus Christ will return "with clouds", or "with the masses" of His saints Revelation 1:6 " And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father; to Him be glory, and dominion for ever and ever. A-men."The "priests" are the "elect", while the "kings" are the "ethnos", the saved Gentile people of this earth age. They are not the chosen, but the "overcomers". They read and heard God's word, then they believed and repented, and "overcame" the devil That over come at the End of this age and his coming and sense the end hasnt come yet we do not know who the overcomers are and who will regien and rule with Christ ... these are not mens appointed priests but God overcomersRevelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of [mourn over] Him. Even so, A-men."I notice you choose to ingnore the verses that dont fit your doctrine One can forgive sin and that is not any man but guess you find out when the End comes 1Ti 2:5For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; __________________

Diana · Nov 8, 2009

Christina;74474]And again if you were not trying to justify a religion of men you could put this proper context and quote the next verse [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][B]Revelation 1:7 [/B][I]"Behold said:
Him. Even so, A-men."[/I][/SIZE][/FONT]This event is the second advent taking place here, when Jesus Christ will return "with clouds", or "with the masses" of His saints Revelation 1:6 " And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father; to Him be glory, and dominion for ever and ever. A-men."The "priests" are the "elect", while the "kings" are the "ethnos", the saved Gentile people of this earth age. They are not the chosen, but the "overcomers". They read and heard God's word, then they believed and repented, and "overcame" the devil That over come at the End of this age and his coming and sense the end hasnt come yet we do not know who the overcomers are and who will regien and rule with Christ ... these are not mens appointed priests but God overcomersRevelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of [mourn over] Him. Even so, A-men."I notice you choose to ingnore the verses that dont fit your doctrine One can forgive sin and that is not any man but guess you find out when the End comes 1Ti 2:5For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; __________________

Christina, the beginning sentence of Revelation 1:6 begins in verse 4. This is what it says: Revelations 1:4-5 John, to the 7 churches in Asia: grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the 7 spirits before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful whitness, the firstborn of the dead and ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by His blood, who has made us into a kingdom, priests for His God and Father, to Him be glory and power forever and ever. Amen. The kingdom and priesthood is about us. This is in line with what St. Peter said when he called us to be a royal priesthood and a consecrated nation. (See 1 Peter 2:9).

Diana · Nov 8, 2009

Christina;74474] [I][FONT=Arial]I notice you choose to ingnore the verses that dont fit your doctrine One can forgive sin and that is not any man but guess you find out when the End comes [/FONT][/I][I][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/I] [URL=http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Ti&c=2&v=5&t=KJV#5][COLOR=#0000ff]1Ti 2:5[/COLOR][/URL]For [there is] one God said:
one mediator between God and men[/B], the man Christ Jesus; __________________

I haven't ignored this verse. We still believe that Jesus is the mediator between God and men. And this Mediator (Jesus Christ) is the Head of the Church. The Bible does say that Jesus is the Head of the Church. And the priests are there to serve the Head of the Church. The office of the priesthood from the Apostles still lives on in the Church with Jesus as its Head.

Christina · Nov 8, 2009

An apostle is a messenger and ambassador. This would mean that they represent God’s Word. It does not endow them with special supernatural abilities of forgiving another’s sin. That is not written. That would defeat the entire need for Christ to have sacrificed Himself for our sins. Man would have only needed to forgive each other for sins against others. Think of the evil that would prevail if that were true. No one would be held responsible for any evil actions if all they had to do was to tell someone else. Why do you keep going on like Iam saying there is no priests/pastors of God of course there are I am saying that your priest are not special they are just men not endowed with any more ability to forgive sin than I am .. Like is said above if this were so we wouldnt need Christ ...There is only mediator Jesus Christ

Diana · Nov 8, 2009

[quote name='Christina;74477][COLOR=#00008b]An apostle is a messenger and ambassador. This would mean that they represent God’s Word. [B]It does not endow them with special supernatural abilities of forgiving another’s sin. That is not written. That would defeat the entire need for Christ to have sacrificed Himself for our sins. [/B]Man would have only needed to forgive each other for sins against others. Think of the evil that would prevail if that were true. No one would be held responsible for any evil actions if all they had to do was to tell someone else. [/COLOR][/QUOTE] They were not endowed with special supernatural abilities????? My sister' date=' don't you know that the Apostles had the power to heal and cast out devils? (See Acts 5:12-16). This power came from God and given to the Apostles. Do you read the Bible? My sister, the Bible already stated that Jesus gave His Apostles the authority to forgive sins or retain sins through the power of the Holy Spirit that was given them. [QUOTE']Why do you keep going on like Iam saying there is no priests/pastors of God of course there are I am saying that your priest are not special they are just men [/QUOTE] My sister, it was YOU who stated that priests were appointed by men. The office of priesthood was created by God since the time of Moses. And the Apostles also called themselves priests because God made them not just Apostles, but also priests. He gave them the office of the priesthood that continued on today. You are correct in that our priests are just men. They are men, but all power comes from God. In the same way, the Apostles were only men - they were sinful men, but all power comes from God. Christ is indeed the Mediator between God and men. And this Mediator is the Head of the Church. The office of priesthood from the Apostles continues to live on today with Jesus Christ as its Head. The office of the priesthood was established by God, not by man.

n2thelight · Nov 8, 2009

Diana Christ is indeed the Mediator between God and men. And this Mediator is the Head of the Church. The office of priesthood from the Apostles continues to live on today with Jesus Christ as its Head. The office of the priesthood was established by God, not by man.

You are correct,Christ is the mediator so why should one confess there sins to a priest when they can and should confess them directly to God in the name of Christ? And can you please tell me how a sinful man can forgive sins?

Diana · Nov 8, 2009

n2thelight;74480]You are correct said:
Christ, the Mediator, is also the Head of the Church. If you can understand that the very nature of the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ, then you can better appreciate that Jesus lives and acts in His Church through His divine Word in Scripture, the Liturgies, the Mass and Sacraments. Then we see that it is not a mere man, but Jesus Christ, the Son of God and Savior who is forgiving sin through the power of the Holy Spirit that he gave to the priests and bishops just as He had given to the Apostles. Do you not believe that God uses human beings to carry out His Will? After all, He used the Apostles to carry out forgiveness of sins when He told the Apostles to go out and forgive sins. (See John 20:21-23) Here, we have Jesus sending sinful men (the Apostles) out to forgive sins, so why did He sent these men to forgive sins. So, shouldn't you ask why Christ sent sinful men (the Apostles) to forgive sins when people can just go directly to God and ask forgiveness? The answer is because God uses people to communicate with us. For example, the Gospels record that Jesus sent out the twelve and others of his followers with the same power and authority that he possessed. In fact, Jesus even promised his disciples, "he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do (Jn. 14:12). As you can see, Jesus himself established certain ways or "channels" of sharing his life and power with humankind. The Apostles knew that they were not Jesus when they performed miracles (Acts 5:12-16) or when they forgave sins, but they knew that Jesus was present with them and through them when they did those things in his name. The Apostles were mere men who were told to forgive sins. These Apostles were able to forgive sins because they became a channel of the grace and power of Jesus Christ. God communicated His forgiveness and the giving of the Holy Spirit through the Apostles (Acts 8:17). The Apostles were only human channels of God's way of communicating with us. It is the same of our priests and bishops. This is what the Church still continues to do since apostolic times.

Why divorce is not an option for Christians?

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