'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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God sent his Only Begotten Son to the world, that's what I believe is what's written down, too. Yet you don't believe God sent / gave His only, the God-only-begotten Son, God the Son?! What son was Jesus of God then, if He wasn't God's God-only-begotten Son, GOD the Son? Or can the olive tree bear figs, or the fig tree, olives? God-begotten is God, after born of a woman or before born of a woman.

As I said I believe what's written down, and what's written down in the scriptures is that God sent his, "Only Begotten Son" to the world, or the scriptures have written down, "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God." The scriptures nowhere say, "God the Son." In all the manuscripts which go back thousands of years, nowhere when speaking of Jesus Christ do these manuscripts invert the phrase, "Son of God" to "God the Son." I'm not going to agree with inverting the phrase, "Son of God" to "God the Son." I honestly believe people to be changing Scripture when they do that and it seems to me they're doing it to try to prove their belief in the Trinity.
 
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Davy

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Hello @Davy,

Thank you for your response,

The 1,000 years is only a part of the reign of Christ though isn't it? The 1,000 years mark the length of time that the Overcomers and all who are found worthy will reign with Him. In Revelation 20:4-6, we are told of two resurrections, one which take place before the 1,000 years and one which comes after it.

'And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded
for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,
neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
on such the second death hath no power,

but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,
and shall reign with him a thousand years.,'
(Revelations 20:4)

It's a popular Church tradition to treat those "dead" of Rev.20:5 as being a second resurrection at the end of the 1,000 years to stand Judgment. However, Jesus showed us the wicked dead are raised on the same day the "resurrection of life" happens, per John 5:28-29. So where is the John 5 "resurrection of damnation" accounted for in that Rev.20 Scripture?

If we say those are resurrected at the end of the 1,000 years, then it goes directly against what our Lord Jesus said in John 5:28-29 about their resurrection happening also on the day of His 2nd coming. Thus the popular doctrine that the wicked dead aren't raised until the end of the 1,000 years, shows disagreement with God's Word.

* I know that there will be a resurrection of the just and of the unjust, but I believe that the Lord will first of all come back for His own, as promised by Him, in such verses as John 6:38-40.

Yes, that's true. But I'm pointing to the "resurrection of damnation" for the 'unjust' that Jesus showed in John 5:28-29 occurs on the day of His 2nd coming, along with the "resurrection of life".

* As the verses quoted above show there is more that one resurrection, and I am not sure where they all fit in (see reply #425).

Which is why you are posting on this thread, to possibly find out, I assume.
 

Davy

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Davy, go back and read the situation of Thomas. Jesus was resurrected into/with NEW Life!!
Are you saying that He lied, when He said that His body was flesh and bone?? I hope not!
Of course His body was thus, but without blood.

So I ask you, since blood is that which keeps our mortal flesh alive, what now was giving Life to Jesus, who HAD NO BLOOD?
Ans. The Spirit of God!!

In His NEW resurrection body, He is now both Flesh and Bone, PLUS God's Spirit, allowing Himself to appear physically, and at will, to also have the ability to be invisible, and walk through walls.

Mortal flesh and blood cannot inherit the KoG!
But, what is not said, andis shown, is that his Immortal flesh and bone plus God's Spirit DOES inherit the KoG.

Sorry, there is NO WAY in Scripture to prove that the resurrection is to another flesh and bone body. This is why Apostle Paul told us that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Apostle Paul would not go against our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Cor 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

KJV

If you say the resurrection is a new flesh and bone body, then you are saying the resurrection is equal to corruption.
 

Davy

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We all, who are "from beneath", are born as a living soul, breathing the oxygenated air for life, aka "the natural man". All of such are born without the Spirit of God, and therefore DO NOT have eternal existence of any kind.

The Genesis 2 idea that God breathed into Adam's flesh the 'breath of life' and Adam became a living soul is not all God's Word has to say about how God created us.

2 Cor 5:1-4
5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
KJV

1. What is... that "earthly house of this tabernacle"?

and...

2. What is that "building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens?

 

Davy

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As I said I believe what's written down, and what's written down in the scriptures is that God sent his, "Only Begotten Son" to the world, or the scriptures have written down, "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God." The scriptures nowhere say, "God the Son." In all the manuscripts which go back thousands of years, nowhere when speaking of Jesus Christ do these manuscripts invert the phrase, "Son of God" to "God the Son." I'm not going to agree with inverting the phrase, "Son of God" to "God the Son." I honestly believe people to be changing Scripture when they do that and it seems to me they're doing it to try to prove their belief in the Trinity.

Excuse me for butting in but...

God made it plain enough in His Word showing that Jesus Christ is also God. The 'begotten' idea is merely an application about Jesus as God being born in the flesh through woman's womb.

Heb 1:1-8
1:1 God, Who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, Whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by Whom also He made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;


4 Being made so much better than the angels, as He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Jesus as God was not made (created), that above idea is about Jesus' flesh birth in this world to die on the cross for the forgiveness of sins of those who believe. That Father didn't do that. Only The Son did that.


5 For unto which of the angels said He at any time, "Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten thee?" And again, "I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son?

6 And again, when He bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him."

7 And of the angels he saith, "Who maketh His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire."

8 But unto the Son He saith, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom."

KJV

That last verse is The Father calling The Son "O God".

Another one of Jesus' titles is Immanuel per Isaiah, which means 'God with us', even as defined in the Matthew 1:23 Scripture.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Davy says
Hebrews 1:3-Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;[/QUOTE\]

The first part of this Scripture says: who(meaning Jesus)being the brightness of his glory. Who is the words "his glory" referring to, God right? Well since this part of the scripture is saying, who is the brightness of his glory, that part of the scripture is telling me that Jesus is reflecting that brightness of God glory. That doesn't mean Jesus is that glory but he is reflecting the brightness of God glory.
Another part of that Scripture in Hebrews 1:3 says Jesus being express image of His person, again expressing the image of a person doesn't make you that person.



Davy said
Hebrews 1:8-But unto the Son He saith, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom."[/QUOTE\]
I notice in Hebrews 1:9 it says-
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.kjv
Am I suppose to ignore verse 9 of Hebrews chapter 1 that shows the one called God in verse 8 has a God over him. I'm not going to do that.

Following his resurrection, Jesus informed his disciples, “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth,” isn't it true that the Only True God has always had all authority? Also how can anyone believe that anyone would give God authority when he has always had all authority. This scripture is showing however that because Jesus is given all authority he heads a government of universal domain. (Mt 28:18) The apostle Paul made clear that Jesus’ Father has “left nothing that is not subject to him [Jesus],” with the evident exception of “the one who subjected all things to him,” that is, Jehovah, the Sovereign God. (1Co 15:27; Heb 1:1-14; 2:8) Jesus Christ’s “name,” therefore, is more excellent than that of God’s angels, in that his name embraces or stands for the vast executive authority that Jehovah God has placed in him. (Heb 1:3, 4) Only those who willingly recognize that “name” and bow to it, subjecting themselves to the authority it represents, will gain life eternal. (Ac 4:12; Eph 1:19-23; Php 2:9-11) They must, sincerely and without hypocrisy, line up with the standards Jesus exemplified and, in faith, obey the commands he gave.—Mt 7:21-23; Ro 1:5; 1Jo 3:23.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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I go by what's written down in the Bible, not by anyone's interpretation. If the scriptures say God sent his Only Begotten Son to the world, that's what I believe it's what's written down.

You asked; receive from the mouth of I-AM Jesus of Nazareth, AND BEHOLD THE EFFECT without which not even Barney Bright shall believe .... With his nose up high in the air the fool says, Jesus is not God. Fall Barney Bright from being the bright and morning star, flat on your back and at His Mercy thou shalt receive!
John 18:6
ὡς οὖν εἶπεν αὐτοῖς (ὅτι) Ἐγώ εἰμι,
As soon then as he had said unto them, I-am I-am

ἀπῆλθαν εἰς τὰ ὀπίσω καὶ ἔπεσαν χαμαί.
they went backward and fell to the ground.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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106449861_10208048452245351_7616883541604990857_n.jpg
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Imperfect men/women can say they have God Holy Spirit and they can honestly believe that to be true, but that doesn't mean it is true.

AMEN! In fact when imperfect men/women claim-say they have God the Holy Spirit in them and that they honestly believe that to be true, it means for sure it is not the Holy Spirit of God, in them or God the Son was lying when He declared the Spirit SHALL NOT TESTIFY / WITNESS OF HIMSELF BUT SHALL CONVINCE whoever of HIS SINS and sinfulness and of the utter depravity of his own heart. And what is more, that Jesus said that this shall be the benefit and advantage of the Holy Spirit of God ALWAYS, without exception, until the very end and through the very end of every unsaved sinner. In fact the Holy Spirit shall torment the lost in hell and gnaw at their conscience, what their flesh, forever! FOR WHAT? For not having believed GOD THE SON. At least that is what the Son said and swore!
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Your interpretation is really a 'fleshy' thinking about the resurrection. We don't get new flesh bodies, so the resurrection really is not about a literal dead in the ground waiting to be raised idea. That idea is from the old Jewish traditions of men.

Thanks for saving me the futile trouble of further reading anything from you.
 
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mjrhealth

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AMEN! In fact when imperfect men/women claim-say they have God the Holy Spirit in them and that they honestly believe that to be true, it means for sure it is not the Holy Spirit of God, in them or God the Son was lying when He declared the Spirit SHALL NOT TESTIFY / WITNESS OF HIMSELF BUT SHALL CONVINCE whoever of HIS SINS and sinfulness and of the utter depravity of his own heart. And what is more, that Jesus said that this shall be the benefit and advantage of the Holy Spirit of God ALWAYS, without exception, until the very end and through the very end of every unsaved sinner. In fact the Holy Spirit shall torment the lost in hell and gnaw at their conscience, what their flesh, forever! FOR WHAT? For not having believed GOD THE SON. At least that is what the Son said and swore!

You really do make a mockery of God and all that HE is do you not. God is Love Love does not torment that is the realms of satan and His cohorts you do not know what spirit you speak.

Mat_16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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You really do make a mockery of God and all that HE is do you not. God is Love Love does not torment that is the realms of satan and His cohorts you do not know what spirit you speak.

Mat_16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Hell is hell not because God is not there, but because God is there in the fullness of his wrath. Paul Washer
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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He who does not kill sin in his way takes no steps towards his journey’s end. John Owen.

In truth John Owen is actually speaking of the Holy Spirit in one's life. Indeed yes IN HIS LIFE if not in hell after life as well. "The Spirit speaks / testifies of JUDGEMENT", said Jesus Christ, Mjr Health!
 

mjrhealth

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He who does not kill sin in his way takes no steps towards his journey’s end. John Owen.

In truth John Owen is actually speaking of the Holy Spirit in one's life. Indeed yes IN HIS LIFE if not in hell after life as well. "The Spirit speaks / testifies of JUDGEMENT", said Jesus Christ, Mjr Health!
Oh so now down to mockery you really do despise the truth. Nothin gto say.
 

Earburner

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There are two judgments that were ordained of God:
1. The judgment of death through Adam, of which we all inherited. Genesis 2:17
2. The judgment for the Gift of Eternal Life, through faith in Jesus. John 3:18.

1. Adam was the FIRST to receive eternal death.
2. Jesus was the FIRST to receive Eternal Life.

1. All we are born "from beneath" through the seed of Adam, as living souls.
John 8:23 1 Corinthians 15:45
2. Jesus was born "from above", through the seed of God, a quickening Spirit.
John 8:23 1 Corinthians 15:45

1. Adam was the firstborn of the dead, eternal death.
2. Jesus was the firstborn from the dead, eternal life.
 

Earburner

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Sorry, there is NO WAY in Scripture to prove that the resurrection is to another flesh and bone body. This is why Apostle Paul told us that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Apostle Paul would not go against our Lord Jesus Christ:
Then, as I did say, you are denying the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ and his own testimony.
Luke 24[39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
 

Davy

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Davy says
Hebrews 1:3-Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;[/QUOTE\]

The first part of this Scripture says: who(meaning Jesus)being the brightness of his glory. Who is the words "his glory" referring to, God right? Well since this part of the scripture is saying, who is the brightness of his glory, that part of the scripture is telling me that Jesus is reflecting that brightness of God glory. That doesn't mean Jesus is that glory but he is reflecting the brightness of God glory.
Another part of that Scripture in Hebrews 1:3 says Jesus being express image of His person, again expressing the image of a person doesn't make you that person.

Davy said
Hebrews 1:8-But unto the Son He saith, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom."[/QUOTE\]
I notice in Hebrews 1:9 it says-
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.kjv
Am I suppose to ignore verse 9 of Hebrews chapter 1 that shows the one called God in verse 8 has a God over him. I'm not going to do that.

Following his resurrection, Jesus informed his disciples, “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth,” isn't it true that the Only True God has always had all authority? Also how can anyone believe that anyone would give God authority when he has always had all authority. This scripture is showing however that because Jesus is given all authority he heads a government of universal domain. (Mt 28:18) The apostle Paul made clear that Jesus’ Father has “left nothing that is not subject to him [Jesus],” with the evident exception of “the one who subjected all things to him,” that is, Jehovah, the Sovereign God. (1Co 15:27; Heb 1:1-14; 2:8) Jesus Christ’s “name,” therefore, is more excellent than that of God’s angels, in that his name embraces or stands for the vast executive authority that Jehovah God has placed in him. (Heb 1:3, 4) Only those who willingly recognize that “name” and bow to it, subjecting themselves to the authority it represents, will gain life eternal. (Ac 4:12; Eph 1:19-23; Php 2:9-11) They must, sincerely and without hypocrisy, line up with the standards Jesus exemplified and, in faith, obey the commands he gave.—Mt 7:21-23; Ro 1:5; 1Jo 3:23.

You're only making excuses to not believe Jesus is God. Hebrews 1:8 is a direct statement of The Father calling Jesus "O God", even talking about Christ's future eternal reign upon His throne. It's unmistakable that He is calling Jesus as God. The Hebrews 1:9 verse in no way modifies or changes that direct statement. Nor does it modify or change the meaning of Christ's name Immanuel...

Matt 1:23
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

KJV

Your unbelief actually puts you in the category of the unbelieving Pharisees, because when Jesus said He existed before Abraham, using the I AM name of GOD given to Moses, the Pharisees picked up stones and tried to stone Jesus, meaning they understood Jesus to be saying that He is God (John 8:56-59).

So not believing that Jesus of Nazareth is The Christ, and thus God come in the flesh, is a dangerous position to be in. No Christian should ever be in that state. Apostle John revealed this too...

1 John 2:22
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

KJV

John's point there is not just about a belief on Jesus of Nazareth as Savior. It's about believing that Jesus is "the Christ", which is pointing to Jesus as Immanuel 'God with us', born in the flesh through woman's womb. Flesh man cannot save us, only God can. This is why God came in the flesh as Jesus Christ to die on the cross so as to offer us remission of sins through Faith. Not believing He is God is like putting faith in flesh, and not in God The Saviour.
 

Davy

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Then, as I did say, you are denying the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ and his own testimony.
Luke 24[39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

No, I am not denying Christ's resurrection. I simply don't agree with your assigning the resurrection body to be a flesh body of corruption, which Apostle Paul made clear in 1 Corinthians 15:50, which you have denied.