Toward Death More Abundantly Instead... of Life?

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Addy

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and fwiw marks i dont think i have ever trashed anyone's beliefs; it's when the "you have to believe exactly like i do or you are going to hell" jazz starts that i usually comment

AND... he likes to TANGO... LOL I am still laughing at your comments on my thread.
 

bbyrd009

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You've mentioned "Death more abundantly" as something that can be in the Born Again Christian's life, something they seek after, and that being the ways of the flesh, and that by doing so, they bring upon themselves spiritual death. Do I have the right idea?
word
Esau have I hated
 

bbyrd009

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Satan knows in order for him to deceive the world he must first deceive the Christians ...and he's using the word of God to do it.

How? By twisting the meaning of words so that it serves mankind and the kingdom of the devil, rather than God and His kingdom.
i mean what is "the fruit of the tree of knowledge" after all? Dont we speak in facts now, in the western, wise world? I suggests that (speaking in tongues) "facts" are the father of lies
 
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amadeus

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i mean what is "the fruit of the tree of knowledge" after all? Dont we speak in facts now, in the western, wise world? I suggests that (speaking in tongues) "facts" are the father of lies
The Interpreter is needed to really understand and separate truth from fiction. People have learned things from studies and from listening to preachers and from science and other supposedly secular areas and applied them to their walk with God. It is very mixed up but when no one ever provokes them to consider their ways they too often simply move on ahead toward the ditch. That ditch may well be a bottomless pit.

"Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways." Haggai 1:5
 

marks

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One moves up high when he meets the Lord and begins to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness [Matt 6:33]. Moving up is growing closer to God. The actual individual pathway is somewhat varied according to the part of the Body of Christ the person is to be, where the person already is in relation to God and how willing the person is to really surrender completely to the lead of the Holy Spirit. This is off the top of my head so I may have missed something. Details are all, or mostly all, in the written scriptures when we are able to find them and if we understand what we read when and if we do. Can a person come to God without the written scriptures? Yes, but go slow on that one if you have a Bible already. We really need to use everything that God has given us... which often these days in so-called western countries would include a Bible.

Jesus says "come unto me..." This begins when we first hear it. How closely we approach is up to us. There is no limit with God. Any limits are on our part. God is at the top and we are at the bottom when and if we start. I am not speaking of a physical location. Does this help with your question?

You are a Bible student and probably you would know all of the scriptures I could cite, but I don't remember them and I am no longer able to quote them verbatim. I lost that ability years ago. Now when God sees that I need a verse for a situation He shows me where it is and I use copy and paste on the computer. In the flesh it would work differently.
Amen!
 

marks

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The Bible is effectively as I see it a book of parables for it is the uninterpreted word of God.
I've been giving some thought to this.

While the Bible certainly contains parables, it is more than that. It is also a book of history. In fact, in the Bible, we have the only true history of the earth, and of the nations, and of God's dealings with man. At least so far in the portion it covers.

That history is a history of God declaring to His creation Who He Is, and then showing His creation that reality. And there may be many lessons about God that we can learn from these seemingly insignificant details, where did Jesus spend His childhood, or what was the name of the man who cast the pillars for the temple, so much is included in these things as you well know, just the same, I cannot escape the fact that the Biblical history is as true about it as everything else.

There really was a man who cast 2 bronze pillars, because the Creator of the Universe commanded this be done. And Jesus of Nazareth really isn't "John Doe from Nowhere", as I've heard it put, as if none of this is real, instead, His is the Last Man, who is the Lord of Heaven.

I'm not saying the natural man can understand the things of God. But the natural man is certainly able to verify whether Quinirius really was a ruler at the time, or whether there really was an island Patmos. For years people didn't think the Hittites were real. Then that was discovered.

Does it matter in the modern day between man and God whether there was a Hittite kingdom? I don't know! But I do know it matters whether we can, as God's children, read Scripture without the filter of first questioning whether the things we read about really happened or not. I think we can receive the Word of God in the same way we normally receive language.

If we are looking at whether we in our Christian walk are moving more towards life or death, well, as we both know, I believe that we have passed from death into life. I think you believe we are in a process of doing that, or that we hope we will one day pass from death into life.

But in terms of what is the way of life, and what is the way of death, of course we have to have a roadmap, and that roadmap, the one that doesn't get us lost, like the maps in our minds do, the true roadmap is that Bible.

So if the Bible is a book of riddles, or a book of parables, that's a much different sort of map that the one I'm looking at.

I would say that the difference in how we see the Bible is foundational to the differences in our different understandings.

But at the end of the day, I don't have any question that you are looking to Jesus, and we are brothers. And I appreciate the time you spend with me, and I truly do apologize that my manner has offended, I truly want to not trouble you!

Much love!
 

marks

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The Interpreter is needed to really understand and separate truth from fiction. People have learned things from studies and from listening to preachers and from science and other supposedly secular areas and applied them to their walk with God. It is very mixed up but when no one ever provokes them to consider their ways they too often simply move on ahead toward the ditch. That ditch may well be a bottomless pit.

"Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways." Haggai 1:5

This reminds me . . .

Jeremiah 6:16 "Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls."
 

amadeus

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I've been giving some thought to this.

While the Bible certainly contains parables, it is more than that. It is also a book of history. In fact, in the Bible, we have the only true history of the earth, and of the nations, and of God's dealings with man. At least so far in the portion it covers.
We are in agreement here. Parables and more than parables. A history, yet not a comprehensive history. The history is there to set the scene for God's message in way to which men may relate.

That history is a history of God declaring to His creation Who He Is, and then showing His creation that reality. And there may be many lessons about God that we can learn from these seemingly insignificant details, where did Jesus spend His childhood, or what was the name of the man who cast the pillars for the temple, so much is included in these things as you well know, just the same, I cannot escape the fact that the Biblical history is as true about it as everything else.

There really was a man who cast 2 bronze pillars, because the Creator of the Universe commanded this be done. And Jesus of Nazareth really isn't "John Doe from Nowhere", as I've heard it put, as if none of this is real, instead, His is the Last Man, who is the Lord of Heaven.

I'm not saying the natural man can understand the things of God. But the natural man is certainly able to verify whether Quinirius really was a ruler at the time, or whether there really was an island Patmos. For years people didn't think the Hittites were real. Then that was discovered.

Does it matter in the modern day between man and God whether there was a Hittite kingdom? I don't know! But I do know it matters whether we can, as God's children, read Scripture without the filter of first questioning whether the things we read about really happened or not. I think we can receive the Word of God in the same way we normally receive language.

If we are looking at whether we in our Christian walk are moving more towards life or death, well, as we both know, I believe that we have passed from death into life. I think you believe we are in a process of doing that, or that we hope we will one day pass from death into life.

But in terms of what is the way of life, and what is the way of death, of course we have to have a roadmap, and that roadmap, the one that doesn't get us lost, like the maps in our minds do, the true roadmap is that Bible.

So if the Bible is a book of riddles, or a book of parables, that's a much different sort of map that the one I'm looking at.

I would say that the difference in how we see the Bible is foundational to the differences in our different understandings.

But at the end of the day, I don't have any question that you are looking to Jesus, and we are brothers. And I appreciate the time you spend with me, and I truly do apologize that my manner has offended, I truly want to not trouble you!

Much love!
Offended? No, my problem in part anyway comes with my age. I am tired in my flesh. Last night I woke up at a little after 3AM and got up for the day. I don't thrive on 4 hours of sleep. I know that it is God that keeps me going because He is not finished with me yet. I will remain hopefully always His humble servant. I apologize for allowing my crankiness to show.

As to our view of the Bible? Although it may be different so long as we are striving to keep first things first according to Him it will come out good for each of us that loves Him... even as it is written. Just always remember that we want to end up as much like Him as possible. The possibilities are really limitless for our God has no limits that we don't put on Him. He gave us the authority to choose Him or other things. When we choose Him not even the sky is the limit.

Give God the glory
!
 
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amadeus

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This reminds me . . .

Jeremiah 6:16 "Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls."
I have always enjoyed reading Jeremiah. He stood strong in the Lord in the face of the people's deaf ears. He spoke God's Word, but the people would not hear nor repent. My little complaints are nothing next to that. Maybe with what is happening around us today some men will find themselves in Jeremiah's kind of place. You or me? God knows! Let us not tempt God! Let us simply look upon His face and walk ever closer to Him as He leads us onward.
 
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marks

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I have always enjoyed reading Jeremiah. He stood strong in the Lord in the face of the people's deaf ears. He spoke God's Word, but the people would not hear nor repent. My little complaints are nothing next to that. Maybe with what is happening around us today some men will find themselves in Jeremiah's kind of place. You or me? God knows! Let us not tempt God! Let us simply look upon His face and walk ever closer to Him as He leads us onward.
There is a lot about Jeremiah I find comforting and encouraging! I often remember Jeremiah's first vision . . .

11 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree.
12 Then said the Lord unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.

What a safety net!! But I don't envy these ancient prophets! You're right! My troubles are nothing in comparison. Light, momentary afflictions is all!

Much love!
 

marks

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Last night I woke up at a little after 3AM and got up for the day. I don't thrive on 4 hours of sleep.
I don't either, and that's what I get a lot of the time also. It doesn't matter what time I go to bed. I'll wake up in 4-5 hours.

Although it may be different so long as we are striving to keep first things first according to Him it will come out good for each of us that loves Him... even as it is written. Just always remember that we want to end up as much like Him as possible. The possibilities are really limitless for our God has no limits that we don't put on Him. He gave us the authority to choose Him or other things. When we choose Him not even the sky is the limit.

Give God the glory
!


Have you ever read Mere Christianity? I've just finished it again. I love the way he talks about God's designs on us. He says something like we may be satisfied if God builds us into a nice little cottage, but that's not what He's doing, He building a palace for a King.

I believe that He Will have His way in the true child of God. But I know we both believe we hasten or impede our progress with our choices.

I wish to grow in patience and gentleness!

Much love!
 
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amadeus

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Have you ever read Mere Christianity? I've just finished it again. I love the way he talks about God's designs on us. He says something like we may be satisfied if God builds us into a nice little cottage, but that's not what He's doing, He building a palace for a King.

I believe that He Will have His way in the true child of God. But I know we both believe we hasten or impede our progress with our choices.

I wish to grow in patience and gentleness!

Much love!
It has been many years since I last opened that book, Mere Christianity. I still have my old copy, but in my most recent rereading of old books I chose Corrie Ten Boom's "The Hiding Place". It seems like even though I don't work at a secular job any more I have less time available than previously to do all that I wish or need to do.
Sleep well my friend and give God the glory!
 
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marks

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i mean what is "the fruit of the tree of knowledge" after all? Dont we speak in facts now, in the western, wise world? I suggests that (speaking in tongues) "facts" are the father of lies
Personally I think the point is, The Knowledge of Good and Evil, not just knowledge itself. God imparted knowledge to Adam as He instructed Adam about the garden. Fruit from all trees are good for eating, except the one tree in the middle, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

So they had knowledge, and were innocent.

God spoke with facts right from the start. And that's a fact! ;)

The fruit of eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was that man became like God, knowing good and evil. But it proved to be deadly, and corrupting. Not that they had knowledge. Knowing that they were not to eat from that tree is knowledge. But now they have knowledge God had not intended, knowing what it would do to them.

If you condemn the speaking of facts, you are defacto condemning God, as He speaks facts.

But in fact, it's not "The Tree of Knowledge", it is the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil". So the passage clarifies the matter.

Much love!
 

bbyrd009

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So they had knowledge, and were innocent.
he said, with complete confidence look, what you are doing, right now, see? No, they almost certainly did not "have knowledge" in the Scriptural sense wadr
God spoke with facts right from the start. And that's a fact! ;)
ha you just dont even realize what you are doing there i guess. Yes, Yah speaks in facts of a kind--i would say "truth"--but He is Yah and you are not, so wadr knowledge brings sorrow and he who says he knows, does not applies to you in a way that it does not, to Him, imo
imo
.
The fruit of eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was that man became like God, knowing good and evil. But it proved to be deadly, and corrupting. Not that they had knowledge. Knowing that they were not to eat from that tree is knowledge. But now they have knowledge God had not intended, knowing what it would do to them.

If you condemn the speaking of facts, you are defacto condemning God, as He speaks facts.

But in fact, it's not "The Tree of Knowledge", it is the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil". So the passage clarifies the matter.
"its like this and
like that and
like this, and uh"

ok prof ty, and have a nice day sir
 
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bbyrd009

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growing up is hard, huh
we eat from the tree of knowledge, and decide to believe pretty much everything we think, and we seek to learn more "facts" when really the way to go is surely backward, from our pov anyway,
become like a little child

and i guess that doesnt mean the little kids we have trained to speak in the hegelian dialectic, but rather those still using the Naive
helps to be retarded i guess, ty Yah!
:D
 
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bbyrd009

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Personally I think the point is, The Knowledge of Good and Evil, not just knowledge itself. God imparted knowledge to Adam as He instructed Adam about the garden. Fruit from all trees are good for eating, except the one tree in the middle, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

So they had knowledge, and were innocent.

God spoke with facts right from the start. And that's a fact! ;)

The fruit of eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was that man became like God, knowing good and evil. But it proved to be deadly, and corrupting. Not that they had knowledge. Knowing that they were not to eat from that tree is knowledge. But now they have knowledge God had not intended, knowing what it would do to them.

If you condemn the speaking of facts, you are defacto condemning God, as He speaks facts.

But in fact, it's not "The Tree of Knowledge", it is the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil". So the passage clarifies the matter.

Much love!
so look im really not meaning to be mean or whatever, honest; so is there some way you could just forget everything your Right Eye has told you, up there?
 
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marks

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so look im really not meaning to be mean or whatever, honest; so is there some way you could just forget everything your Right Eye has told you, up there?
The Right Eye thing, I really think you've got the wrong idea.

Maybe I'm misunderstand something . . . I hope so . . . because it seems that you like to speak quite knowledgeably about the repudiation of all knowledge.

But I'm not really interested in throwing out everything I've learned because some guy (no offense!) because some guy on the internet tells me we're not supposed to know anything.

If your right eye offends you, pluck it out. Does your right eye offend you? Was Jesus advocating gouging out your eyeball? OR cutting off the true source of sin, the flesh?

Truly, do you "know" I've got it all wrong?
 
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marks

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he said, with complete confidence look, what you are doing, right now, see? No, they almost certainly did not "have knowledge" in the Scriptural sense wadr
Do you mean sex? Do you really think that's what I meant?
?
 

Philip James

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What qualification does a church minister need? None. Any person could get a minister of religion certificate

Perhaps in the land of confusion..

Rather,

' Let no man do aught of things pertaining to the Church
apart from the bishop.'

- St Ignatius bishop of Antioch (circa 100 AD)

Peace be with you!