God is faithful

amadeus said:

Are you saying then that @mjrhealth has an empty box but the box of @FollowHim is full of the good things of God? I don't know you, but I've known mjr for several years on forums. You are wrong about him.

Is God limited to talking to a person or moving with a person in only one way? That is what some on this forum and many in other places calling themselves Christian insist is the case. God spoke to Elijah in a still small voice, but I suspect he has also spoken to people through winds and earthquakes and fire even He wasn't in them for Elijah. He has likely spoken to people in other ways, which we cannot imagine. When you limit @mjrhealth don't you also thereby limit God... unless of course you are able to read all of mjr's heart?

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You are wrong about him

An empty box is a message with no content. So the gospel is a box, it has a fantastic wrapping in the bible, and history, the church, people who share and die for its message. Open the box and it has structure, layers, a gate, a path, a destination, a solution.

Someone comes with a new gospel which they say overthrows the biblical box. But they refuse to detail what this is or even how it overthrows scripture. I am told I am an idolator of scripture, that I worship scripture and not God and Jesus. I hope you understand the seriousness of such an accusation. If it is true I am deceived and lost. Unfortunately this is just an extension of Jesus's argument regarding the teachers of the law having no love of God in their hearts, only self indulgence and greed, missing justice, faithfulness and mercy (forgiveness). I do respect the criticism of the teachers of the law, but this is not what is being proposed here, because the person sharing this argument does not understand Jesus's meaning.
God bless you

amadeus said:

Sorry I have not read all of this thread. I read only the post of yours to which I replied directly. When I was younger I tried to read all posts, but I haven't done that in quite a while. I understand somewhat where he is however with regard to the written scripture. The problem with written scripture alone is seen when two people come together to discuss based on the Bible and each one draws different conclusions from the same verses, sometimes even from the very same translation. The solution of course lies with God. When each person claims to be following the lead of the Holy Spirit you have yet another problem. What I see is that everyone or nearly everyone presuming they have received the Holy Spirit quenches the Spirit when it comes to essentials they have already decided are unchangeable absolutes from God. So each person who does believe is also a mixture of what he considers essential and of what the Holy Spirit is revealing to him. Such beliefs between person often overlap in places but seldom coincide. For them to always coincide they both would always in every moment hear what thus saith the Lord via the Holy Spirit and then hearing obeyng what they hear. This does not happen too much so we have disagreements between believers and eventually more denominations added.


I cannot testify further in more detail on his behalf. Perhaps my understanding of the Bible is closer to his than to yours so I will explain. What is written in scripture came through the inspiration of God to individuals who wrote it. Other individuals perhaps copied or translated from the original manuscripts to what ever common language being used. All of them may have inserted what may appear to some people to be errors, but God being in control of the situation kept His message intact.

The problem comes with the student or reader of the Bible who sometimes or always reads for the wrong purpose or without the direction of the Holy Spirit. An avowed atheist can be an expert on the written Bible without knowing or believing God at all. Wrong spirit or a mixture of one's own old carnal man and the Holy Spirit result in conclusions sometimes partially or completely in error.


My only advice is to keep an open mind and an open heart to God and go where the Lord leads you. I cannot be an final arbiter between you and him. I may be wrong in part as well. When I am led by God I am right. When I have included something not from God them I am wrong. Then again there is a time to speak and a time to remain silent. This also may only be correctly determined when you are led by the Holy Spirit. I have my own solution given to me as to how to assure that I hear from the Holy Spirit daily given to me I believe by God but I won't detail that unless you are interested.

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Unfortunately the discussion became quite simple. There was a claim that a revelation experience was more important than Gods word.

Now in the end this is the start of all heresies, and where you find people accept and reject different parts of scripture depending on their theological model.

I centre my life on Jesus's commands and walking in His ways as the Spirit gives power.

I am interested in how you hear from the Holy Spirit daily, because this is the key area some actually fail. For me it is the peace that passes understanding and a gift of faith. God bless you

mjrhealth said:

Yes Ill never dismiss Jesus Christ The living word, He has so much more value than a book written by men, after all He is our Husband, deserves far more respect than given by men.

I receive no honor from men.

God bless

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Jesus equated His words with accepting Him. He emphasised His words would judge people on the last day. And His words are in the gospels. The words are so significant they are eternal. There can be no compromise with this, we are answerable to them.

If a revelation denies this it is not of God, pure and simple. God bless you

mjrhealth said:

Something like,

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Yes His word the ones that come out of His mouth, have and always will judge men, because they dont believe in Him.

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Amen, God's words are our life, Amen.

Personal revelation can never contradict God's word though, which Paul warns us about. Unfortunately there are many people of God who have had visions etc that turn out to be false, predictions of the future that are not fulfilled but they say are God's gift.

So content is critical, along with direction. One is our foundation always helps, love and the cross. If we end up condemning everyone we have probably got it wrong.

mjrhealth said:

But its ok for the bible to contradict God, thats Idolatry. Man took paper and made it greater than God. We are so inventive are we not. We even demand God and Jesus bow down to a book.

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Let me ask you a simple question. Where does the bible contradict God?
Or are you saying if the bible contradicts God who is right?
Part of the faith in Jesus is this will never happen. Clearly from your contribution you believe this has happened.

Does God change? If something in the past has not contradicted God it will not in the future.
And often the issue in scripture is interpretation. So Jesus is asked has Elijah come?

12 Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
13 But I tell you, Elijah has come, and they have done to him everything they wished, just as it is written about him.
Mark 9:12-13

13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.
14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.
Matt 11:13-14

3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
Matt 7:3

So here we have Jesus saying John the Baptist is Elijah but then he meets Elijah on the mountain when the transfiguration happens.
So clearly John the Baptist is fulfilling the prophecy of Elijahs return, but is not physically Elijah.

Scripture is very much shadows and implications of events and intention, rather than a detailed road map. In some ways this makes it harder because God lays our His heart and intentions which cannot be dodged and are eternal so any "revelation" experience that contradicts this is not from Him.

And looking at human history, there is no shortage of real, in your face experiences people have, but they are not necessarily of God.
The most recurring one is demons torturing people in hell. Scripture declares the lake of fire destroys people and only tortures those who have taken the mark of the beast or worshipped his image, and it is the demons who will also be tortured for all eternity. So any torturing by demons has nothing to do with the Lord. But it has not stopped people listening to these revelations as if they hold real meaning.

Once you honestly accept this reality of human experience, you can put revelations into the right place. God bless you

mjrhealth said:

God is always right mens idols are never right. But since you insist on putting the bible before them. they will always be last, and so you will "never" experience God because you have insisted He cannot talk to you, Not His doing, your choice, you choose to not listen, that is why "christianity" and religion is such a mess and so few will be at His wedding,

He is patiently knocking and you insist on ignoring Him as most christians do.

Luk_13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Just Like it was in the days of Noah, they wouldnt enter in so they got left out. Not His doing.

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Here is the problem my friend. You are saying you know my relationship with God, and that I personally am not listening to Him. You also claim the Lord cannot talk to me. How do you know this? Are you Gods confidant, and He is telling you what to tell me because He has this problem you can help Him out with?

Today I spent time worshipping and praising God for His love and the cross, for His forgiveness and grace, for His blessing of me.
I know Gods will, what is good and what is evil.

12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!
13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.
14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
Heb 5:12-14

It strikes me you have not learnt "the elementary truths of God's word" and are trying to tell me something that clearly is not true.
Thank you for quoting the parable about being prepared.

1 At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them.
4 The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps.
5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
6 At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'
7 Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.
8 The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'
9 'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'
10 But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11 Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'
12 But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'
13 Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
Matt 25:1-13

The parable is about being prepared for a long wait for the Lord, and stay faithful to the task in hand.
I call on all those who love Jesus to do likewise and beware false teachers who attempt to disown the Lord from His word.
God bless you

God is faithful, which is why He gave us scripture to be a light. And the light is faith and the walk, called the way.

This way changes us, makes us God's children so we grow and mature. The words of cleansing, purity and holiness are simple. We do not need greater revelation that will make things more real. Clearly the way is not enough for some, they need a further eye popping experience.

What is missed in religion is the heart and being totally emotionally open before the cross. This sets the prisoner free because God heals and answers, He is faithful. Amen

farouk said:

Lamentations 3.23...'Great is Thy faithfulness'....

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Many miss the essential nature of the Lord, to walk in truth and justice. Nothing before Him has value except who the Lord is, yet when you listen to many so many other issues they put before Him. We are insecure, weak and frightened people, yet when you meet the Lord, and significance, taking ones time, doing that which is necessary, it all becomes alot simpler. Praise the Lord we are safe in Him, Amen.

mjrhealth said:

But its ok for the bible to contradict God, thats Idolatry. Man took paper and made it greater than God. We are so inventive are we not. We even demand God and Jesus bow down to a book.

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This is quite a statement, because it is heresy, so unexpected. When I mean heresy, it denies some of the fundamentals of our faith and authority of Jesus.

"But its ok for the bible to contradict God"

Part of the faith is the bible never contradicts God. So therefore if anything contradicts Gods word it is untrue.
To put this into context scripture in interpreted in different ways, as a metaphor, as a parable, as history, as comparison, as a warning, as Gods absolute truth, as guidance. Now different parts hold differing implications and meaning which makes this more complicated. So the fundamentalists say the bible says the world is 6,000 years old, no more, no less.

The problem is the ice layers in the anteartic show it is over 800,000 years old. Now one could argue the layers are not seasonal, but only appear so. So then one has to conclude a day in scripture is not a day as we know a day.

Clearly in creation a day and a night is a view taken from a planet, rotating around a light source. Days and nights are cause by this rotation, yet it could be read as if a day and a night are session of a fixed reality without reference to anything else. And the story of creation is God given, as only He was there at creation.

So as soon as you propose God and scripture are separate, one has left the faith. It is really this simple.
What I always find interesting is why people hold scripture is wrong. If you dig deeper sin lies at the foundation.

God bless you

mjrhealth said:

Yes I know isnyt it, men have placed teh dead letter above the living God and procalimed it a god thing, men have made Jesus God and His Spirit redundant, who need God I have my bible, and so we see this forum filled with people quoting teh bible a gazzilion churches all based on the bibel preaching a diferent unkown God,

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However you want to say what is not God, that is pointless unless you can describe who and what is God.
For me the brilliance of the Lord is the sermon on the mount. A few short passages but like treasure packed into a series of approaches and attitudes, yet this wisdom seems to pass you by. You do not see the treasure reflected through scripture, but rather claim scripture does not reflect the living God and His will. Yet though you put the scorn on the word of God you have no content.

It is like those who say the retelling of Jesus cursing the fig tree is undermined between people noticing it straight away or the next day. The story is Jesus saying fruit is essential to the service of God, and to miss this is to miss who He is.

Equally to think there is a point of arriving is to miss the emotional language of living with God, through the ups and downs of each day, and bringing everything to Him in prayer. That is our walk, our privilege, indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

But then again probably you do not believe we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, or else we do not need this special revelation because we actually already possess it, rather we need to learn how to live it out. I am beginning to see our emotional language of faith, is often just unbelief in what God has already done in our hearts.

It is like the believer who says their faith cannot bring joy to their hearts, where is God. But if they exercise faith, and start to praise God for all the blessing they have been given, the hearts are stirred, the Spirit stirs, and there comes joy and rejoicing in all God has done for us. But how can this be, our emotions determine our existence, except in Christ our faith bring joy to our hearts when we start to exercise it, Praise the Lord, Amen.