Toward Death More Abundantly Instead... of Life?

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amadeus

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he said, with complete confidence look, what you are doing, right now, see? No, they almost certainly did not "have knowledge" in the Scriptural sense wadr
Indeed what they had was man's knowledge as when a person studies the Encyclopedia Britannica thoroughly until his brain contains all of the information it contained, but what does he "know" really about anything? Does he have more than superficial knowledge according to men? Do people not sometimes [often?] do the same thing with the written Bible and still not know God at all?

What is the difference between a faithful believer in God and a devil?

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19


ha you just dont even realize what you are doing there i guess. Yes, Yah speaks in facts of a kind--i would say "truth"--but He is Yah and you are not, so wadr knowledge brings sorrow and he who says he knows, does not applies to you in a way that it does not, to Him, imo
imo

Like a devil, a man [Is man perhaps then, The devil?] can know exactly what the Bible says, but have no idea what God is saying. He has man's knowledge of good and evil, but he is really blind and deaf! How does he differ from a devil... if he does?

"And [the devil] saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone." Matt 4:6


But then...

"Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matt 4:7


"its like this and
like that and
like this, and uh"

ok prof ty, and have a nice day sir

And then...?

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt 7:22-23

So again what is the difference between a devil and one who is called, and chosen and faithful?

"...for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful." Rev 17:14
 

marks

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Indeed what they had was man's knowledge as when a person studies the Encyclopedia Britannica thoroughly until his brain contains all of the information it contained, but what does he "know" really about anything? Does he have more than superficial knowledge according to men?

On this part, I'd say that yes, there is a significant difference in what knowledge you may gather on your own, and what God speaks directly to you. I think these are like night and day.

Much love!
 
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amadeus

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I had the pleasure of seeing her speak in my 8th grade year at my school. I've never forgotten her!
I never had the pleasure. Probably by the first time I read her book she had already passed from this life. But... I still recall when I read it the first time. I knew really almost nothing about scripture and God, but her words and experiences overwhelmed me. I was thinking she was so much and then her sister made her as nothing when she prayed not for the victimized inmates of the concentration camp... but for the cruel guards who would kill her body. Then in the sequel, "Tramping for the Lord" she explains the reason why the lice infesting their quarters were a blessing. Give God the glory!
 

marks

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I never had the pleasure. Probably by the first time I read her book she had already passed from this life. But... I still recall when I read it the first time. I knew really almost nothing about scripture and God, but her words and experiences overwhelmed me. I was thinking she was so much and then her sister made her as nothing when she prayed not for the victimized inmates of the concentration camp... but for the cruel guards who would kill her body. Then in the sequel, "Tramping for the Lord" she explains the reason why the lice infesting their quarters were a blessing. Give God the glory!
She was very descriptive of the horrors she lived through. But I've seldom seen the conviction when she came to her conclusion, what she felt was the reason for all that to happen to her, to proclaim that is no pit so deep, so dark, that God is not there.

Much love!
 

amadeus

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She was very descriptive of the horrors she lived through. But I've seldom seen the conviction when she came to her conclusion, what she felt was the reason for all that to happen to her, to proclaim that is no pit so deep, so dark, that God is not there.

Much love!
She describes the horrors, but she also acknowledges her dependence on God and His being there all of the time that made the difference!
 
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Helen

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On this part, I'd say that yes, there is a significant difference in what knowledge you may gather on your own, and what God speaks directly to you. I think these are like night and day.

Much love!

Amen to that.
I’ve been reading along.
I know @bbyrd009 is a thorn in so many sides , as it were...but for those who do not “get him” or understand him , it is their loss. I’m not saying that I always get it..(.sometimes it flies over my head ,) but he’s brave enough to challenge those who he (and most of us) recognize having dead knowledge without the depth of wisdom and grace to go with it. ie “I and I only have it right, so you are wrong.”
Thankfully they don’t stay around here very long when they find that we don’t swoon at their feet and swallow what they dish out.
I see Mark as a challenger to the mainstream traditional teaching ...he tries to shake things up and make people THINK , weight, and sift , and as you say - divide what is ‘collected knowledge’ and what is the life ...the quickened word which God has spoken into our life. Big difference .

I understand ‘death more abundantly’ as those who always look for what God will do in the future..always future , never today , never now.
Yet...Jesus clearly showed us that the kingdom is here , not some future thing ...the fullness and completion is future , but it is within us , around us NOW...His life is now, here ...Life more abundantly ...which He GAVE
...not when we are dead , as in passed-over. “In Him we live and move and have our being.” NOW.

I know that you already know all this .... :)
I just wanted to get a word into this thread haha!

My heart broke when we lost Willie T that left a whole in my heart ...He was one I connected with , even when not always agreeing with. I would feel the same about you if you weren’t here ...I’ve always felt some connection...even though on somethings we differ ...for years bbyrd has been the same for me...he was one of the first people I connected with on this site ...him and a guy called “Job” on here , who’s real name was actually Gary ...to this day I miss him...

Now why I said all that ...no idea ..it’s late here and I should be asleep...ha!
Sweet dreams one and all...x


Hugs...H
 

Addy

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growing up is hard, huh
we eat from the tree of knowledge, and decide to believe pretty much everything we think, and we seek to learn more "facts" when really the way to go is surely backward, from our pov anyway,
become like a little child

and i guess that doesnt mean the little kids we have trained to speak in the hegelian dialectic, but rather those still using the Naive
helps to be retarded i guess, ty Yah!
:D

I actually kind of .. sort of... UNDERSTOOD THIS.... LOL
 

Addy

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Amen to that.
I’ve been reading along.
I know @bbyrd009 is a thorn in so many sides , as it were...but for those who do not “get him” or understand him , it is their loss. I’m not saying that I always get it..(.sometimes it flies over my head ,) but he’s brave enough to challenge those who he (and most of us) recognize having dead knowledge without the depth of wisdom and grace to go with it. ie “I and I only have it right, so you are wrong.”
Thankfully they don’t stay around here very long when they find that we don’t swoon at their feet and swallow what they dish out.
I see Mark as a challenger to the mainstream traditional teaching ...he tries to shake things up and make people THINK , weight, and sift , and as you say - divide what is ‘collected knowledge’ and what is the life ...the quickened word which God has spoken into our life. Big difference .

I understand ‘death more abundantly’ as those who always look for what God will do in the future..always future , never today , never now.
Yet...Jesus clearly showed us that the kingdom is here , not some future thing ...the fullness and completion is future , but it is within us , around us NOW...His life is now, here ...Life more abundantly ...which He GAVE
...not when we are dead , as in passed-over. “In Him we live and move and have our being.” NOW.

I know that you already know all this .... :)
I just wanted to get a word into this thread haha!

My heart broke when we lost Willie T that left a whole in my heart ...He was one I connected with , even when not always agreeing with. I would feel the same about you if you weren’t here ...I’ve always felt some connection...even though on somethings we differ ...for years bbyrd has been the same for me...he was one of the first people I connected with on this site ...him and a guy called “Job” on here , who’s real name was actually Gary ...to this day I miss him...

Now why I said all that ...no idea ..it’s late here and I should be asleep...ha!
Sweet dreams one and all...x


Hugs...H


I have so ENJOYED your early morning sharings/rants... unfiltered... uncensored and raw... BEAUTIFUL... and BRILLIANT!
I am just getting to know this bbyrd009 of which you speak of ... ( and whom I am talking about as though he is not here... but wait... he isn't here... LOL )... I have had the DELIGHTFUL treat of being TOLD off bbyrd style... and told I am NOT the arbitrator of his words.... AND oh my goodness... that does put a smile on my face... especially after I threw it back at him on my own thread... telling him NOT to be rude... only to discover he was ACTUALLY quoting scripture.... HAHAHAHAHA.... I think it was LOVE from that point on... HAHAHAHA.... and still HAHAHA.
ah, that was just a Bible Quote tho A :)
 
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2 Chr. 34:19

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Perhaps in the land of confusion..

Rather,

' Let no man do aught of things pertaining to the Church
apart from the bishop.'

- St Ignatius bishop of Antioch (circa 100 AD)

Peace be with you!
Yes. Anyone can get a ‘minister of religion’ certificate. ‘Borrow’ a church building (there’s plenty of them standing empty) and preach on tithing. They’re called con artists :)
 

bbyrd009

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The Right Eye thing, I really think you've got the wrong idea.

Maybe I'm misunderstand something . . . I hope so . . . because it seems that you like to speak quite knowledgeably about the repudiation of all knowledge.

But I'm not really interested in throwing out everything I've learned because some guy (no offense!) because some guy on the internet tells me we're not supposed to know anything.

If your right eye offends you, pluck it out. Does your right eye offend you? Was Jesus advocating gouging out your eyeball? OR cutting off the true source of sin, the flesh?

Truly, do you "know" I've got it all wrong?
there is a Dao story...several Dao stories, i guess, that would serve better for this, imo, whereas in the Bible this has been quite a bit more obscured, i think for a purpose (to hide wisdom from the wise), but no, im sure you are at least almost half right in your absolute observations ok. And i dont mean "throw out everything you have learned," more like "dont allow what you think you know to (clouds) obscure what else might be possible; Scripture puts it like become like a little child, he who says he knows does not, etc, but we have more current terms for this too, Hegelian v Naive dialectic, ego, dunning-kruger syndrome, etc?

When you make an Absolute Statement, you make a Law, basically, and Law can never be adequate, imo bc you cannot make a law that covers every eventuality
Do you mean sex? Do you really think that's what I meant?
?
ha no, i would just argue that A&E did not have any more "knowledge" than a little child, before we ate of the tree of knowledge, although im not sure what def of that term you intended, as you did seem to kind of acknowledge that further down
 
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bbyrd009

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Perhaps in the land of confusion..

Rather,

' Let no man do aught of things pertaining to the Church
apart from the bishop.'

- St Ignatius bishop of Antioch (circa 100 AD)

Peace be with you!
i know the wolves will rush in as soon as i leave, not sparing the flock
then the end will come, after He has destroyed all rulers, powers, and authority
1 Corinthians 15:24
Colossians 2:15
 
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bbyrd009

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Indeed what they had was man's knowledge as when a person studies the Encyclopedia Britannica thoroughly until his brain contains all of the information it contained, but what does he "know" really about anything? Does he have more than superficial knowledge according to men? Do people not sometimes [often?] do the same thing with the written Bible and still not know God at all?
word

furthermore, when we learn to read and write, we...set our brain a certain way, and illiterate people have a certain advantage over us, practically speaking. Imo if you are ever choosing a gang or a crew to undertake some new thing, be sure to include an illiterate old mexican guy!
 

Addy

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there is a Dao story...several Dao stories, i guess, that would serve better for this, imo, whereas in the Bible this has been quite a bit more obscured, i think for a purpose (to hide wisdom from the wise), but no, im sure you are at least almost half right in your absolute observations ok. And i dont mean "throw out everything you have learned," more like "dont allow what you think you know to (clouds) obscure what else might be possible; Scripture puts it like become like a little child, he who says he knows does not, etc, but we have more current terms for this too, Hegelian v Naive dialectic, ego, dunning-kruger syndrome, etc?

When you make an Absolute Statement, you make a Law, basically, and Law can never be adequate, imo bc you cannot make a law that covers every eventuality

ha no, i would just argue that A&E did not have any more "knowledge" than a little child, before we ate of the tree of knowledge, although im not sure what def of that term you intended, as you did seem to kind of acknowledge that further down


This is BRILLIANT... absolutely BRILLIANT... OH my goodness... I have been SO GUILTY of doing this... throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak... ABSOLUTELY REFUSING to listen to ANYTHING because of my ONE little truth...

I don't know who DAO is... I think you might be referring to some sort of mystical statue buddah-type guy... but here is a personal example about what I THINK you have stated here.... I WANT a COOKIE if I am correct... LOL

Ok... so ... I Loathe a few things... Catholicism.. and Calvinism are my two C words... LOL... For a great long time... I was SO filled with loathing for these two doctrines that I would not even CONTEMPLATE listening to someone preach... who I KNEW was a Calvinist.... I would purposely look up anyone before watching any of those Youtube sermons.... and if there was a breath of Calvinism in their description... IN THE GARBAGE... the sermon would go... I was like this for YEARS...( It's that TRUST issue thing... )... Anyways... this covid thing... has hit me differently than a lot of people... I have been given DEEP PEACE... JOY... and an OVERWHELMING sense of Gratitude... I have also been led to learning a bit about end times... in way of prophesies of the past.... this brought me to Carter Conlon... who is/was the pastor of Times Square Church... WAIT for it... LOL
YEP... I listened to his sermon BEFORE finding out that before him... this was the church that David Wilkerson pastored at and HE was CALVINIST.
Let me tell you... I LOVE LOVE LOVE listening to Carter Conlon... His passion and love for CHRIST.. stirs me up in a way that no other pastor has ever been able to do... so... because of this... I have been able to enjoy a few prophesies of David Wilkerson... and been so blessed...

Thinking I have the truth and not allowing the possibility of only having partial truth has been difficult for me because of all the spiritual abuse I received... I come from Catholicism... and the rest of my family were into Legalism. None of these places have been nice... Calvinism is something I also dealt with in the Christian chatroom I belonged to for 4 years... so I am guilty of what you have described... and I am now FREE of the bondage of THINKING I have all the TRUTH... I am now able to leave my heart and mind open...

DO I GET A COOKIE ????????

Please read post 108 for my bbyrd tribute... LOL
 
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amadeus

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Amen to that.
I’ve been reading along.
I know @bbyrd009 is a thorn in so many sides , as it were...but for those who do not “get him” or understand him , it is their loss. I’m not saying that I always get it..(.sometimes it flies over my head ,) but he’s brave enough to challenge those who he (and most of us) recognize having dead knowledge without the depth of wisdom and grace to go with it. ie “I and I only have it right, so you are wrong.”

Thankfully they don’t stay around here very long when they find that we don’t swoon at their feet and swallow what they dish out.
Even some of those when they are here may be used by the 'left' hand of God to accomplish His purpose of stirring people up. Many may disagree with most of these "I and I only have it right" guys, but their presence and words may cause some to dig in a little deeper themselves into just who Jesus is and why He was sent and what our purpose and priority should be as children of the Most High!

I see Mark as a challenger to the mainstream traditional teaching ...he tries to shake things up and make people THINK , weight, and sift , and as you say - divide what is ‘collected knowledge’ and what is the life ...the quickened word which God has spoken into our life. Big difference .
He also for some may seem to be working in that 'left hand' of God, but I believe that when they really begin to see where he [Mark or @bbyrd009 ] is they will change their minds about that... at least I hope that they will.
I understand ‘death more abundantly’ as those who always look for what God will do in the future..always future , never today , never now.
Yet...Jesus clearly showed us that the kingdom is here , not some future thing ...the fullness and completion is future , but it is within us , around us NOW...His life is now, here ...Life more abundantly ...which He GAVE
...not when we are dead , as in passed-over. “In Him we live and move and have our being.” NOW.
Some people in churches, as I see it, are really wallowing in death and don't realize it. All of us born to our natural mothers were then dead to God... but there was a glimmer of Hope. Perhaps some actually moved toward that Hope, but having found a comfortable place for the moment in an assembly of people [called a church] and wearying in well doing instead of continuing to really to walk toward Him, they settled back in their easy chair [their pew?] and have forgotten how to walk.

[I knew a lady in the apartment complex where we live now who was somewhat disabled when we first met, but she could still get around well enough using a walker to maintain her balance. Instead of following the advice of her doctors and being active as she could, she allowed her compliant boy friend to do everything for her. No exercise, no meal preparation, no errand running, etc. She became more of an invalid quicker and finally died a couple of years ago. For her, that was in the physical, but I believe there are a lot of people who do this to themselves spiritually.]


I know that you already know all this .... :)
I just wanted to get a word into this thread haha!

My heart broke when we lost Willie T that left a whole in my heart ...He was one I connected with , even when not always agreeing with. I would feel the same about you if you weren’t here ...I’ve always felt some connection...even though on somethings we differ ...for years bbyrd has been the same for me...he was one of the first people I connected with on this site ...him and a guy called “Job” on here , who’s real name was actually Gary ...to this day I miss him...
We've lost a few in the years on forums. Another recent one, I believe, was Patrick. He along with our @Giuliano was deep into the connections between the biblical and the stars [astrological and astronomical]. I've still only gotten into a little. Those two knew quite a bit. I am not certain about Patrick, but he was on here as @dorian37grey [alphomega3160]. He was in the hospital in critical condition toward the end of 2019. Having no way to contact his family I only presume he is gone since I have heard no more for so long. Remember also Dwayne who I believe was from Alabama.

Now why I said all that ...no idea ..it’s late here and I should be asleep...ha!
Sweet dreams one and all...x


Hugs...H
Carry on and dream good dreams always!
 
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amadeus

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word

furthermore, when we learn to read and write, we...set our brain a certain way, and illiterate people have a certain advantage over us, practically speaking. Imo if you are ever choosing a gang or a crew to undertake some new thing, be sure to include an illiterate old mexican guy!
I thought that I had mentioned on this forum before [months or years ago] the illiterate Central American [probably from Nicaragua] I met at a church service where I along with my recently deceased Mexican friend were visiting. The man spoke no English. His only language was Spanish, but he was also completely illiterate being unable to read or write in Spanish so he had personally never a read a Bible. Yet, he gave us a wonderful testimony regarding his own love of God and where was with God at the moment. He was in trouble, being an illegal alien in the USA at that time, but he was striving to do the right things in spite of his physical shortcomings. We have lots of Bible experts without such a testimony as his.
 

Addy

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I thought that I had mentioned on this forum before [months or years ago] the illiterate Central American [probably from Nicaragua] I met at a church service where I along with my recently deceased Mexican friend were visiting. The man spoke no English. His only language was Spanish, but he was also completely illiterate being unable to read or write in Spanish so he had personally never a read a Bible. Yet, he gave us a wonderful testimony regarding his own love of God and where was with God at the moment. He was in trouble, being an illegal alien in the USA at that time, but he was striving to do the right things in spite of his physical shortcomings. We have lots of Bible experts without such a testimony as his.

This is so very true.... many are living in DEATH....rather than LIFE.
 

Helen

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Even some of those when they are here may be used by the 'left' hand of God to accomplish His purpose of stirring people up. Many may disagree with most of these "I and I only have it right" guys, but their presence and words may cause some to dig in a little deeper themselves into just who Jesus is and why He was sent and what our purpose and priority should be as children of the Most High!


He also for some may seem to be working in that 'left hand' of God, but I believe that when they really begin to see where he [Mark or @bbyrd009 ] is they will change their minds about that... at least I hope that they will.

Some people in churches, as I see it, are really wallowing in death and don't realize it. All of us born to our natural mothers were then dead to God... but there was a glimmer of Hope. Perhaps some actually moved toward that Hope, but having found a comfortable place for the moment in an assembly of people [called a church] and wearing in really continue to walk toward Him, they settled back in their easy chair [their pew?] and have forgotten how to walk.

[I knew a lady in the apartment complex where we live now who was somewhat disabled when we first met, but she could still get around well enough using a walker to maintain her balance. Instead of following the advice of her doctors and being active as she could, she allowed her compliant boy friend to do everything for her. No exercise, no meal preparation, no errand running, etc. She became more of an invalid quicker and finally died a couple of years ago. For her, that was in the physical, but I believe there are a lot of people who do this to themselves spiritually.]



We've lost a few in the years on forums. Another recent one, I believe, was Patrick. He along with our @Giuliano was deep into the connections between the biblical and the stars [astrological and astronomical]. I've still only gotten into a little. Those two knew quite a bit. I am not certain about Patrick, but he was on here as @dorian37grey [alphomega3160]. He was in the hospital in critical condition toward the end of 2019. Having no way to contact his family I only presume he is gone since I have heard no more for so long. Remember also Dwayne who I believe was from Alabama.


Carry on and dream good dreams always!

Thanks John
I loved the ‘picture that you painted’ of the neighbour lady that “did less and less” physical activity against her doctors wise advice . Great picture of the church and “death more abundantly”.

I also see “death more abundantly” in those whose ‘Jesus’ is still on the cross....is still in the agony of death , with no resurrection, victory or glory. The Lamb is no longer walking the earth meek and mild ...but is all glorious as shown in Revelation...His eyes a flame of fire and His voice as a trumpet. etc

Yes our Willie T has joined the great cloud of witnesses...I agree, with no word, I think Patrick has now gone too. Dwayne I still often think of ...when I feel the moving of the Spirit rising up within me , I feel like saying , as he used to post -“ I feel a glory shout coming on.” :)
He’s shouting freely now! ✝️
We too have much to shout about, the older we get our vision of the true realm grows brighter as the old world grows dim. For a “little moment” my vision fell from His face to the stormy waves ...but , praise God , above the waves I heard a Voice saying- “It is I , be not afraid “ ...’and they came safely to the other side ...’
Like the 12, we are not here for the Storm , but to go through the storm to the other side,,,

At the beginning of our walk , when He first said - “Let us go even unto the other side.” We instantly believed ...the waves of life and the dark thunder has threatened us , but His word never fails.
Not one word has fallen to the ground.

Hugs H
 

amadeus

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This is so very true.... many are living in DEATH....rather than LIFE.
Some already being effectively dead are stopping even their church attendance and so our church buildings are at least approaching what I saw a lot of when I was a student in Europe many years ago... big [sometimes physically beautiful] empty church buildings [Cathedrals] with only tourists to partially fill their spaces. Some of them here are emptier even than they appear, because so many people in them seem also to be empty of the things of God.
 
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bbyrd009

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and fwiw marks i dont think i have ever trashed anyone's beliefs; it's when the "you have to believe exactly like i do or you are going to hell" jazz starts that i usually comment
so, to put that another way, Esau is not condemned for eating red stew; Edom is destroyed for not allowing Israel to pass through