'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

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bbyrd009

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I was more interested in what you might say, but that's OK.
Yes, that's right. The wording there is a little ambiguous whether it means being caught up into the sky to find ourselves in a cloud, or that clouds of us will be caught up.

Just a small thing.

Much love!

ha
contemplate "clouds" as things that obscure a clear view tho maybe :)

turns into a big thing though, if that is all of your choices...
the kingdom does not come by observation
Galileans ("circuit riders," perhaps) why do you stand there looking up into the sky?
ok so you observed two possibilities, right; but what if there are three? Four? And dont both of your current choices violate the vv Quoted?
Because it comes down to this. How do you know this? It may seem a simple or light question, but it's not.
i know this bc that is a direct Quote from Jesus, your god, right?
the kingdom does not come by observation
or i mean am i missing something?
 

prism

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Thread Title:
"Death is swallowed up in victory-When?"

Ans.
See the word "when", written TWO times in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10- KJV.
I believe 'the when' is answered here ...

1 Corinthians 15:54 NKJV
[54] So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

Rather than here...

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 NKJV
[7] and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [8] in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [10] when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
 
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Earburner

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I believe 'the when' is answered here ...

1 Corinthians 15:54 NKJV
[54] So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

Rather than here...

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 NKJV
[7] and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [8] in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [10] when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
You don't understand! The totality of death, and every remnant of it, graves (hell) included, will be engulfed in His flaming and consuming fire, resulting in the lake of fire, over the entire earth's surface, that there will be NO TRACE of death, that it ever happened!
 

Earburner

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^ it is apparent to me, that you are filtering your thinking through one of two, if not both false doctrines of "man received an Eternal soul", and/or the "Pre-millennial concept" of an earth remoldeled/repaired and made over!
 

Helen

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Yes, it is used in that way too, (figuratively) I agree: of the faithful witnesses spoken of in Hebrews 11, who had been faithful unto death; but whose witness remained as a spur for those Hebrew believers who then lived, to do as they had done, and run the race set before them; looking, as they had, to the Author and Finisher of their Faith, who had also endured; despising the shame, for the joy that was set before Him.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

But when are Gods people going to have eyes to SEE that the spiritual realm is the TRUE , and all this is nothing more than the shadow . In Adams fall , everything got turned upside down , he was top heavy , as are we ...(if we don’t live and move and have or bring In Him or know who we are) Adam was no longer firstly spiritually aware , he was of the flesh not the Spirit.

We must “come up higher”.
 
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Davy

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as far as you are concerned anyway maybe?

but wadr its obvious for anyone who is now an heir that this is a perfect world, we live in a miracle, and you cant Quote "Christ, returning" for a berry good reason, ok?

Christ is right here, right now, and may you find Him today sir

Christ's coming is written to be a 'literal' bodily return, not an imaginary one. It's the men who don't want Him... to literally return that want His return to just mean a spiritual symbol, that so those men can stay in their tom-foolery over their congregations.

Jesus is going to return literally, back to this earth, and His judgment will begin first upon His Church, like Apostle Peter said.
 

Davy

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It is very obvious and sad there are people who believe what you say. But Reformed Protestants - the only Protestants - and all <<the 1st century Church Fathers>> are solidly united Amillennialists.

I have to laugh at that attempt at absolutism. My French ancestors were among the very first Protestants in France, called huguenots. They fled persecution by the Catholic Church, which is how they got to the Americas. They were NOT Amillennialists.

The FIRST century Church fathers all believed Christ's Millennium reign begins at His 2nd coming. That included Christ's Apostles who they got The Gospel from. Amillennialism began in the 2-3rd century among a certain faction, like Origen of the Alexandria school. It did NOT happen as a result of the Protestant rebellion.

As a matter of fact, the Church fathers of the school at Alexandria, Egypt has been one of main centers of confusion among the history of Christianity. Much of their writings were of a liberal nature, treating God's Word more in a philosophical sense than a literal sense like the first Christians at Antioch. The rarer Alexandrian Greek texts pushed by Westcott & Hort in the 1880s in contrast to the Majority Texts which represents the majority of New Testament Greek texts is another proof of this.
 
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prism

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You don't understand! The totality of death, and every remnant of it, graves (hell) included, will be engulfed in His flaming and consuming fire, resulting in the lake of fire, over the entire earth's surface, that there will be NO TRACE of death, that it ever happened!
^ it is apparent to me, that you are filtering your thinking through one of two, if not both false doctrines of "man received an Eternal soul", and/or the "Pre-millennial concept" of an earth remoldeled/repaired and made over!
The question is 'when' is death swallowed up in victory. I gave you the Scripture that specifically states 'when', and then you say 'I don't understand'.
Gee, now I can see why this thread has dragged on for 30 pages.
Good-bye.
 

charity

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But when are Gods people going to have eyes to SEE that the spiritual realm is the TRUE , and all this is nothing more than the shadow . In Adams fall , everything got turned upside down , he was top heavy , as are we ...(if we don’t live and move and have or bring In Him or know who we are) Adam was no longer firstly spiritually aware , he was of the flesh not the Spirit.

We must “come up higher”.
Hello Helen,

Thank you for coming back to me on this. Yes, Adam was of the earth, not spiritual but natural. That was how he was made though wasn't it (1 Corinthians 47-49) ? That was not as a result of the fall? God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and Adam became a living soul. So are we born natural and not spiritual as he was. This earthly body has to be exchanged for the heavenly, and that will take place for the believer at the resurrection.

Would you please explain yourself further, Helen, for I know that I have not answered you in a way that will satisfy you, because I feel I need more input from you to fully understand what you are truly saying.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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I have to laugh at that attempt at absolutism. My French ancestors were among the very first Protestants in France, called huguenots. They fled persecution by the Catholic Church, which is how they got to the Americas. They were NOT Amillennialists.

The FIRST century Church fathers all believed Christ's Millennium reign begins at His 2nd coming. That included Christ's Apostles who they got The Gospel from. Amillennialism began in the 2-3rd century among a certain faction, like Origen of the Alexandria school. It did NOT happen as a result of the Protestant rebellion.

As a matter of fact, the Church fathers of the school at Alexandria, Egypt has been one of main centers of confusion among the history of Christianity. Much of their writings were of a liberal nature, treating God's Word more in a philosophical sense than a literal sense like the first Christians at Antioch. The rarer Alexandrian Greek texts pushed by Westcott & Hort in the 1880s in contrast to the Majority Texts which represents the majority of New Testament Greek texts is another proof of this.

No Scripture. All you can actually DO, is, <<laugh>>. So obviously you don't want me to take you seriously.
 

marks

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True...
..and spiritually meaning group..."encompassed about with so great a cloud/group of witlessness .. "
Which has a lot to do with the appeal to me of this passaged describing clouds of us being caught up.

Much love!
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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I believe 'the when' is answered here ...

1 Corinthians 15:54 NKJV
[54] So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."

Rather than here...

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 NKJV
[7] and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [8] in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [10] when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

Stand fast! God be with you

YES! 1Corinthians 15 is Paul's greatest SERMON - on the Resurrection of Jesus Christ without which no resurrection of the Elect will ever take place. If Jesus by Resurrecting from the grave in the earth did not "DESTROY THE LAST ENEMY, DEATH" THEN AND THERE, AND FOREVERMORE, HE NEVER WILL and we all will die eternal for our sins. Ban the thought!
 
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marks

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ok so you observed two possibilities, right; but what if there are three? Four? And dont both of your current choices violate the vv Quoted?
There are as many possibilities as there are imaginations. That's my point. Each has their own imagination, or, it means a certain thing.

So let's say, it means a certain thing, but you have to be "in the know" to know what that is. "The Bible is a book of riddles", I remember reading in a post. So then, one says, I've been given to understand what none of you can, and I'm here to explain it to you.

The more esoteric their explanations, the less verifiable they are, and the greater the risk of false teaching. As we know false teaching is rampant!

So many teach so many things in great disagreement with each other.

There is something I find common in every doctrine which I find at odds with the Bible, and it's just that. There somewhere, some passage, where someone ends up saying, well, yes, it says That, but it really means This.

And in my experience, and what I see taught in the Bible, is to not do that particular thing, but to receive the Word of God - Isn't Jesus your God? - to receive the Word of God whole and unadulterated.

I find so many times, that someone will say, You can't really look at the words used, because I'm telling you what it really means.

But I believe that God gives His Word to all His children, and gives revelation and teaching from His Holy Spirit to us all.

It seems to me that you and I have fundamentally different Ideas about God, the Bible, Jesus, but at the end of the day, if we are not reading the Bible as clear language giving propositional statements as well as all the rest, then how do you tell the true from the false? Is that the same? Nothing you can really point to, you just "know"?

The same way that you "just know" the meaning of the parable of the casting of the bronze pillars?

Much love!
 
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Earburner

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The question is 'when' is death swallowed up in victory. I gave you the Scripture that specifically states 'when', and then you say 'I don't understand'.
Gee, now I can see why this thread has dragged on for 30 pages.
Good-bye.
"Truth makes no enemies, except in the minds of those who attempt to refute it."- Earburner
 

Enoch111

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The question is 'when' is death swallowed up in victory.
1. This is not complicated at all. Death is swallowed up in victory at the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints. Those who died before will all be resurrected, and those who are alive at that time will never die.

2. Later on, death is banished altogether from the earth when Death (personified) and Hades (personified) are cast into the Lake of Fire. This is just prior to the establishment of the New Heavens and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness".
 

prism

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"Truth makes no enemies, except in the minds of those who attempt to refute it."- Earburner
I wonder what bumper sticker saying there is for deception?
Wait, I have one..."Deception makes many friends except in the minds of those who use discernment."
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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But I believe that God gives His Word to all His children, and gives revelation and teaching from His Holy Spirit to us all.

God gives His Word to all His children, and gives revelation and teaching THROUGH His Holy Spirit to us all FROM His Word.

Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones
We must never separate the Spirit and the Word. The Spirit speaks to us through the Word; so we should always doubt and query any supposed revelation that is not entirely consistent with the Word of God. Indeed the essence of wisdom is to reject altogether the term “revelation” as far as we are concerned, and speak only of “illumination.” The revelation has been given once and for all, and what we need and what by the grace of God we can have, and do have, is illumination by the Spirit to understand the Word.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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Yes!! We who are born again of God's Holy Spirit have the Victory over death right now! 1 John 5:13.

No!! You nor I nor <we>, <born again of God's Holy Spirit> or not, EVER <<have the Victory over death>>, less than never <right now>. It's preposterous assuming-- PRIDE-- your's-- Earscreeper's PRIDE!!

...and abuse of Scripture <<1 John 5:13>>.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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1. This is not complicated at all. Death is swallowed up in victory at the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints. Those who died before will all be resurrected, and those who are alive at that time will never die.

2. Later on, death is banished altogether from the earth when Death (personified) and Hades (personified) are cast into the Lake of Fire. This is just prior to the establishment of the New Heavens and the New Earth "wherein dwelleth righteousness".

True EXCEPT <<Later on>>. You had it right, <<Those who died before (Christ's Second Coming) will all be resurrected>>. All alive saved "will be changed". All unsaved are devoured by the Brightness of His Coming which for the lost and the devil and his angels shall be the consuming pit of hell. <<death is banished altogether from the earth when Death (personified) and Hades (personified) are cast into the Lake of Fire>> in the one and only event of Jesus' Coming Again to earth "in the flesh".
 
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