Non-resistance and loving your enemy.

Hello all.This is a message that will be confronting to many, but i believe it must be delivered. I cannot go on without giving it, If i did not then i would not be true to the Holy Spirits conviction and i could not say i have love for the lost.Let me give you some scriptures first and may the Holy Spirit move you with them.Matthew 5:38-3938 "You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. 39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.Matthew 5: 43-4843 "You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.Romans 12:17-2117Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. 20Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.Matthew 5:9Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God. II Corinthians 10:3,4"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds." Ephesians 6:12"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." Ephesians 6:4"And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord." Zechariah 4:6"Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the Lord of Hosts." 1 John 5:19"The whole world lieth in the evil one." Revelation 13:10He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.I hope you have the faith of the Saints.Ever since the Messiah came back to life on the third day after his execution all of humanity has been invited to accept him as the Messiah, to have their sins forgiven through his grace so as to be acceptable to exist in the presence of The Ancient Of Days for eternity. This Invitation is open to all people until the moment of their deaths. When we kill others who haven’t accepted our Messiah we are denying them the chance for redemption that The Ancient Of Days has offered them through the Messiah. We sinners who are saved by grace have no right to kill others for the sins that they do.To defend or avenge ourselves may be our human notion of what is good or just but once the Messiah was raised from the dead The Ancient Of Days provided a route to eternity for sinners that did away with that kind of justice. If The Ancient Of Days used this justice to determine who would enter into eternity with Him would we have any chance of entering it? I can be assured in myself that without the grace of the Messiah I would burn.So if we are followers of The Messiah we shall attempt to overcome evil with good and not allow ourselves to be overcome by evil by joining in their game. Love and the Word are the only weapons our Messiah has given us to use.When we understand these things we then know why we are told to turn thy cheek, love thy enemy, do not avenge yourselves and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you. It no longer sounds like foolishness, for The Ancient Of Days has made the wisdom of man as nothing He reaches out to ALL men. How then can we kill one to whom The Ancient Of Days is reaching out for, in Love? Do we offer a reflection of the message of Jesus if we do this?What I would like deal with is the contention that God uses the nations of this world to carry out His plans. I would like to give to you all a few insights that could bring harmony to this seeming contradiction. Now we see from history that The Ancient of Days has used the evil plans of world rulers to ensnare them. Take a look at nazi Germany and communist Russia. Now did God use nazi Germany as an instrument of His wrath on Communist Russia or did he use communist Russia as an instrument of His wrath on nazi Germany? It is my belief that God used both against each other to weaken the hold of both evil ideologies on their populations. So here we see God using evil worldly systems to weaken their hold on the hearts of the deluded without the use of a “Christian army”. I do not believe there has ever been a Christian army. I believe that Christians should take no part in Carnal warfare. We fight with the Word of God to play our part in the victory over death that all true followers of the Messiah Jesus have.All Praise The Ancient Of Days

forgivenWretch;74810 said:

Then David committed a grave sin for slaying Goliath?

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No. War that the Jews where waging against the philistines at the time was sanctioned by God.They had their orders at the time from God. We have our orders at this time from Jesus. All Praise The Ancient Of Days

forgivenWretch;74821][B][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]In the New Testament said:

[/FONT][/B]Appears to be after He came also?

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I will explain for you those sayings of Jesus:Luke 1251 Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division. 52 For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two against three. 53 Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”Jesus here was not talking about warfare but only division. This came about when the Word of Jesus was preached to the Jewish people and the gentiles. families where divided by the message of Jesus. And today this dividing continues there are many who have come to Jesus as individuals who have been divided from their family for doing so. I know of a few former muslims who have been under the threat of death form their families for accepting Jesus as their Savoir.Now for your second Quote:The Scripture was the end part of a parable told by Jesus.Luke 1911 Now as they heard these things, He spoke another parable, because He was near Jerusalem and because they thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately. 12 Therefore He said: “A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and to return. 13 So he called ten of his servants, delivered to them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Do business till I come.’ 14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We will not have this man to reign over us.’15 “And so it was that when he returned, having received the kingdom, he then commanded these servants, to whom he had given the money, to be called to him, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned ten minas.’ 17 And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.’ 18 And the second came, saying, ‘Master, your mina has earned five minas.’ 19 Likewise he said to him, ‘You also be over five cities.’20 “Then another came, saying, ‘Master, here is your mina, which I have kept put away in a handkerchief. 21 For I feared you, because you are an austere man. You collect what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 And he said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow. 23 Why then did you not put my money in the bank, that at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’24 “And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to him who has ten minas.’ 25 (But they said to him, ‘Master, he has ten minas.’) 26 ‘For I say to you, that to everyone who has will be given; and from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’”This i believe refers to the return of Jesus, His second coming. He was talking about the judgement that would come upon the false followers. This was in no way a call to warfare for His followers.All Praise The Ancient Of Days

I will now reply to the quoted Minister's righting:

First, getting slapped on the cheek, etc., refers to how to handle personal insults, not criminal actions. As Christians, we are peaceful, gentle, and not "strikers." We ought not to be bellicose, or welcome fights. By all means, let's just turn the other cheek to personal insults or inconveniences, and bear them patiently.Second, our response to criminal activity must be quite different. With regard to situations that we are caught up in unexpectedly, we are authorized to use even deadly force. Jesus told His disciples to buy swords for self-defense (Luke 22:36). (The disciples as a group of traveling men had two swords, and that was enough for their situation and numbers.)

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Lets read Luke 22 and see In Context what it was about.Luke 2234 Then He said, “I tell you, Peter, the rooster shall not crow this day before you will deny three times that you know Me.”35 And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”So they said, “Nothing.”36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’[d] For the things concerning Me have an end.”38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.”And He said to them, “It is enough.”Why where only two swords enough? This happened on the very day that Jesus was arrested. Why did Jesus wait all this time to tell His diciples to get swords? And when told they had two Why did He say that was enough? I believe for His purpose only 1 sword was needed. And that was the one that was used within hours of this to cut the ear of one of the men who came to arrest Jesus. Lets read on. See what happened later that same day and Note Carefully What Jesus said:Matthew 2247 And while He was still speaking, behold, Judas, one of the twelve, with a great multitude with swords and clubs, came from the chief priests and elders of the people. 48 Now His betrayer had given them a sign, saying, “Whomever I kiss, He is the One; seize Him.” 49 Immediately he went up to Jesus and said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed Him. 50 But Jesus said to him, “Friend, why have you come?” Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and took Him. 51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear. 52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?” 55 In that hour Jesus said to the multitudes, “Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs to take Me? I sat daily with you, teaching in the temple, and you did not seize Me. 56 But all this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.”Jesus got them to have the Swords so He could tell them to put them away.

In Exodus 22:2 we are taught that if we kill a thief who breaks into our home in the night, we are NOT GUILTY of murder. We did OK.

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Time before Jesus.

Paul told Timothy that if a man would not provide for his own family he was worse than an infidel (I Timothy 5:8). I take provision to refer to providing safety from criminals as well as providing shelter and food.

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Here Paul identifies an attitude. Of a person who's will is not to provide for his family. This scripture has nothing to do with warfare but it has to do with the material needs of ones family.

In Romans 12 Paul is telling Christians not to be vigilantes against criminals. "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord, I will repay." But Romans 12 must not be read isolated from Romans 13. (The chapter headings were not in the original manuscript, anyway.)

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This has noting to do with vigilantism Romans 12 is clear and reinforces Jesus words on non-resistance.

Romans 13 informs us that the civil authority is God's agent to wreak wrath and terror on evil-doers. The point of Romans 12-13 is NOT to let criminals escape, but to bring in the magistrate to be God's agent of wrath. As a Christian, I am not authorized to look up the burglar who stole from me last week, and now I have discovered his identity, but I should rather turn him into the police, and let them make an arrest, and get him into the justice system.

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Now this is an important message about the Authorities of this world. Yes Paul did call on us to bring to the attention of the authorities the evil doers. But read carefully what he says about the Authorities.1 Corrinthians 5 1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named[a] among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.Who is satan? Why the civil authorities of this world that’s who. Again remember what Jesus told His followers about swearing oaths?Matthew 533 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.What do courts require of those who are being judged? Why they require them to swear and Oath on a bible or a quran. And what is one of the first things that new recruits of an army must do before they are accepted into an army as solders? Why they must swear an oath to the king or president or their leaders or their constitution. Jesus not only gave clear orders to His followers to Never swear oaths. He informed them that Oaths like the ones that recruits take are from the evil one.

Third, with regard to preventing someone from having his chance at redemption. Here we have a theological question over which Christians differ. My view is the Calvinistic view, that the number of the saved and the number of the lost is already known by God, and cannot be increased or decreased. God has chosen His elect from before the foundation of the world. My view is not that all men have a chance at redemption, but rather that the salvation of the elect is CERTAIN. The non-elect will NEVER come to Christ, no matter how many chances they receive (John 6:35-66 and many other verses about the elect)

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I am not a calvanist but it is true that God knows who will accept Him and who will not. But we are not God. Irrespective of this. We are still under the clear instruction of Jesus and it is backed up by Paul, That we should not take part in carnal violence. Our weapons are the Words of God, They are not used to destroy men but to destroy the power of evil over men, to lead people to a victory over death that comes from accepting the Messiah Jesus as ones Redeemer.

EDITTED TO SAY: While killing someone before they had a chance to repent and be saved would be most unfortunate, they would be suffering the consequences of their own actions.

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Yes maybe so. But the one who killed them would also be under a grievous consequence, until such time as they repent of their killing and accepted the truth of the Love that Jesus represents.

Fourth, with regard to loving my neighbor. The Bible says that love is not a feeling, it is obedience to the Law. Remember Jesus saying something like "All the Law is bound up in these two statements: love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself."I take this literally. I love my neighbor by keeping the last six of the 10 commandments. I will not murder him, steal from him, lie about him in court, covet his stuff or commit adultery with his wife. Positively, I will do my best to build a neighborhood in which he is protected from evil people who WILL steal his stuff, take his wife, lie about him in court, etc.As far as criminals are concerned, loving them means treating them with justice and mercy. It does not mean allowing them to skate free. They must be held responsible, and imprisoned, or otherwise punished, or I am falling down in my duty to love my neighbor.

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Revenge is the Lords. Punishment and Judgement of God on an evil one is far more terrible than anything humans can do. It is not up to us, followers of Jesus and ambassadors of His Grace to take part in any punishment on men in this world. Leave such things to the authorities of this world.

Finally, about there never being a Christian army. Here it depends on how you define "Christian" and how you define "army."EDITTED TO SAY: The Crusades were a Christian Army.

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The Crusades where not a Christian Army. The crusades where ordered by the catholic pope who was not a Christian.

There are many examples of armies and generals being authorized, sent and blessed by God. Israel was sent into Canaan by God to exterminate the pagan Canaanites. God raised up judges (Gideon, Barak, Ehud, Samson, etc) to lead armed rebellions against foreign oppressive rulers. David was a fighting man, and blessed by God as he led the armies of Israel to fight the Philistines and other surrounding nations. In the book of Esther, the Jews were authorized to take up weapons to defend themselves. In Nehemiah, as they rebuilt the wall of Jerusalem, they worked with a sword in one hand and a trowell in the other. All of this was authorized by God.

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Yes. All of this was authorized by God, indeed. But this was before Jesus, And all these actions where Authorized by God through His representatives on the ground the "judges of Israel" the "Prophets". Whenever the Jews tried to take any unauthorized military actions on their own account they where not blessed in the action by God.We have received the Orders from Jesus, reinforced by the words of His Holy Spirit guided messengers, Not to engage in military actions.All Praise The Ancient Of Days