My theory about the "Word" in John 1:1

brian100 said:

How could he be God Man before Mary?

He became real physical man. . the one you can touch. Words must mean physical world.

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More verses that affirm the Divine and therefore Eternal Nature of Christ:

Joh 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (2) The same was in the beginning with God. (3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (4) In him was life; and the life was the light of men. (5) And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 1:17-18 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: (18) I am he that lives, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things says the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things says the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Where does it say God was Jesus before Mary.

janc said:

I think that the Word in John 1:1 is the speech of God, which means that God created the world by speaking. If you look at Genesis 1 you will see that every time before God created something it says "and God spoke". Also in Psalm 33:6 it is written "By the word of the Lord the heavens were created,for he spoke and it was". If this theory is true, if the Word is the spoken word of God, then the "Word" is the expression of the spirit that expresses the thoughts of a person. This then means that the Word of God in John 1:1 is actually God the father himself. The Word is, so to speak, the spirit of a person. It is written that the Holy Spirit came to Mary, and then the Son of God was begotten, the Holy Spirit is accordingly the Word who became flesh, God himself became flesh, his spirit manifested in the flesh.
So there was no "Son of God" before the Incarnation, and so no Trinity either.

What's your opinion on that?

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Jesus is the Word. This at first seems absurd, how can words make a person. But words or intention described in words, concepts, summaries, are how we communicate, describe our world, think about things, define our very existence and create contextual meaning. A word is more than a word, it has intention, emotion, expectation, cause and effect. It also has content, some profound, some mundane and simple. Everything we do socially is based on words, interactions, rules, definitions, descriptions. We rely for safety of our lives on words and their importance.

We often confuse the truth and otherwise of the description used by words, to devalue the means of communication.
When Gods word dwells in us, it changes us, because its meaning and impact is profound. God loves us, and lays a path before us that leads to life. Now in any society we have highly respected people whose utterances are taken as truth itself, without a filter, because we know they are trustworthy. God falls into this category. So when He says He loves us, this should shake us and change us. There is real hope here, real significance, something more precious than Gold.

We also confuse meaning with spiritual significance. So people will talk about heavenly experiences like these define reality or truth, above Gods reality in the cross. But when we see absolute love expressed, the King of All dying for us, that should change us if we can see it. But it takes faith to see it, and to know how profound this is. The ruler of all will listen to our very words, cares for the hairs on our heads, so we need to listen to Him. People are so used to emotionally expressing profound truths of the christian faith, they do not hear the meaning of the words, just a service where such speech is spoken but seems to go no deeper. My parents both fall into this category, and never found it possible to talk about faith or what it meant to them. It was just something you did, that was all.

God bless you

janc said:

I think that the Word in John 1:1 is the speech of God, which means that God created the world by speaking. If you look at Genesis 1 you will see that every time before God created something it says "and God spoke". Also in Psalm 33:6 it is written "By the word of the Lord the heavens were created,for he spoke and it was". If this theory is true, if the Word is the spoken word of God, then the "Word" is the expression of the spirit that expresses the thoughts of a person. This then means that the Word of God in John 1:1 is actually God the father himself. The Word is, so to speak, the spirit of a person. It is written that the Holy Spirit came to Mary, and then the Son of God was begotten, the Holy Spirit is accordingly the Word who became flesh, God himself became flesh, his spirit manifested in the flesh.
So there was no "Son of God" before the Incarnation, and so no Trinity either.

What's your opinion on that?

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Hello @janc,

If that were the case the word, 'Word', would not have required a capital letter.
Have you considered such verses as Revelation 19:13, 1 John 1:1 and 1 John 5:7?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

brian100 said:

Where does it say God was Jesus before Mary.

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Asked and answered.

More to the point, brian100, where in the Bible does it say to idolize Mary, or even pray to her?

brian100 said:

Where does it say God was Jesus before Mary.

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God is a Spirit according to John 4:24a correct. now this, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

where was the the Spirit of Christ? in the prophet of old, the OLD TESTAMENT PROPHET. and they was before Mary. and Christ the Spirit was in them, them who? them prophets of the OT.

BINGO. that's where the bible say Jesus was before Mary.

PICJAG.

janc said:

that has nothing to do with my question

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It has everything to do with all of your posts. .....

janc said:

I think that the Word in John 1:1 is the speech of God, which means that God created the world by speaking. If you look at Genesis 1 you will see that every time before God created something it says "and God spoke". Also in Psalm 33:6 it is written "By the word of the Lord the heavens were created,for he spoke and it was". If this theory is true, if the Word is the spoken word of God, then the "Word" is the expression of the spirit that expresses the thoughts of a person. This then means that the Word of God in John 1:1 is actually God the father himself. The Word is, so to speak, the spirit of a person. It is written that the Holy Spirit came to Mary, and then the Son of God was begotten, the Holy Spirit is accordingly the Word who became flesh, God himself became flesh, his spirit manifested in the flesh.
So there was no "Son of God" before the Incarnation, and so no Trinity either.

What's your opinion on that?

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John very clear that God has His Word eternally with Him, and that Word is also God, and became the Lord Jesus!

YeshuaFan1 said:

John very clear that God has His Word eternally with Him, and that Word is also God, and became the Lord Jesus!

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I hope by now most christians know and UNDERSTAND that the Lord Jesus as Son is the "Word" in John 1:1 is a diversified spirit, in flesh from the Spirit the Holy Spirit, who is the ordinal First. as the Word, or ordinal Last, Jesus is the figure of God himself to come, see Roman 5:14b. and in Isaiah 63:5 God told us who his own ARM is. when christian begain to understand Isaiah 63:5 then they will understand the Godhead. it's just that simple.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

now lets look at what John 1:1 is really saying. this is another diverse/ Diversified Oneness scripture in the bible concering the Godhead. as said, Isaiah 63:5 is another key in the understanding of the Godhead. "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

now, who is God's "OWN ARM?" again, answer, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" (STOP, Isaiah by the Spirit is about to tell you who is God's "OWN" ARM IS), listen,

Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." (STOP, God's own ARM is a he, a him? yes, God's own ARM is a Person.

remember Isaiah 63:5....... "MY, MY, MY, own ARM. now lets fast forward to Revelation 3:12, (WATCH THE "I" AND THE "MY". "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

did you see it? if not, here it is, it's the same one person refering to his OWNself, listen,

I will write upon him the name of my God.

ok who name did he write?

I will write upon him my new name.... oh my God, .... "I" here is ME, or MY, for "MY" means belonging to or associated with the speaker. and I means the one who is speaking or writing, NOW QUESTION, "who is speaking here?" yea buddy, you got it, the Lord Jesus. so it is the Lord JESUS nwho is God that is writting "his" name upon us. oh how easy it is when one have the RIGHT TEACHER, the Holy Ghost.

did anyone missed that? when Jesus say MY GOD he is saying MY OWN SPIRIT, WHICH ART IN HEAVEN,... or my Father, who is Spirit, ART IN HEAVEN. BINGO.

Isaiah 63:5 and Isaiah 53:2 nails the Godhead AS TO who is the only person in it......the Lord Jesus.

now get this, Isaiah 53:5 "But he, (God own arm, Isaiah 63:5), was wounded for our transgressions, he, (God own arm, Isaiah 63:5), was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

WHO IS THE "he" HERE? the ONE who was wonded for our transgressions, the Lord Jesus, correct, ....... God's "OWN" ARM, he himself God almigty. so as Isaiah 53:1 states, "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" (DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS GOD'S ARM?). ARE YOU A BELIEVER? ...... or not...
God's own arm, is God himself, the Spirit, in flesh. so Zechariah 12:10 is correct, it was God on the cross..... (smile), listen, "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, (other words who was wounded for our transgressions ) , and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." did you see that? they shall look upon me but they shall mourn for him, (smile). Look upon .. "me" .... but mourn for ... "him". ain't diversified Oneness something else. only when you know.

well, well, well. anothe successful educational sabotage operation that is safe.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

janc said:

I think that the Word in John 1:1 is the speech of God, which means that God created the world by speaking. If you look at Genesis 1 you will see that every time before God created something it says "and God spoke". Also in Psalm 33:6 it is written "By the word of the Lord the heavens were created,for he spoke and it was". If this theory is true, if the Word is the spoken word of God, then the "Word" is the expression of the spirit that expresses the thoughts of a person. This then means that the Word of God in John 1:1 is actually God the father himself. The Word is, so to speak, the spirit of a person. It is written that the Holy Spirit came to Mary, and then the Son of God was begotten, the Holy Spirit is accordingly the Word who became flesh, God himself became flesh, his spirit manifested in the flesh.
So there was no "Son of God" before the Incarnation, and so no Trinity either.

What's your opinion on that?

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According to Biblical Scholarship - there is no "Trinity" in the NT.

That aside - John did not use the term "Word" - and unfortunately the modern Bibles mistranslate this .. and do so intentionally.

The word used was "Logos" .. which can mean"Word" .. but in a religious context means "Emissary between man and God".

This is the perfect word because that is exactly how Jesus cast himself in Matt/Mark. Jesus spoke "God's Word" through the Holy Spirit .. in this respect Jesus was the physical embodiment of God's word .. a vessel in which God's word could be revealed to man - "through the Holy Spirit"

So in this respect "Jesus was the Word" - the word of God. This does not Turn Jesus into God as many wold like... Not the author of John .. nor anyone hearing these words would take this to mean "Jesus was God"

Everyone in the Audience knew what "The Logos" was .. and the author of John wanted to use language that the people were familiar with to increase the appeal of Christinity ...and better define their religious belief.

No one at the time thought that Jesus was "God" .. Jesus was believe to be divine .. but subordinate to the Father.. by all the Christians at that time (sans the ones that thought he was just a man favored by God) believed that Jesus was subordinate to the Father .. This is what the early Church father's believed.

Paul and the disciples did not think Jesus was "God -The Father" .. and certainly Jesus did not believe this .. referring to God as someone distinct from .. and other than himself .. numerous times.

It was around 200 AD when Tertullian first came up with a Trinity Doctrine similar to the one we have today ... This doctrine was viewed by the Church as heretical.

It was not until 325 AD - due to a directive from a Pagan Emperor Constantine for political purposes - that Jesus was finally transformed into Fully God.

Many of the Bishops at Nicene whet home disgusted - at having been forced to sign under duress. It took another 500 years for the old beliefs to be persecuted and killed away. Charlemange finally finished the Job.

Heyzeus said:

According to Biblical Scholarship - there is no "Trinity" in the NT.

That aside - John did not use the term "Word" - and unfortunately the modern Bibles mistranslate this .. and do so intentionally.

The word used was "Logos" .. which can mean"Word" .. but in a religious context means "Emissary between man and God".

This is the perfect word because that is exactly how Jesus cast himself in Matt/Mark. Jesus spoke "God's Word" through the Holy Spirit .. in this respect Jesus was the physical embodiment of God's word .. a vessel in which God's word could be revealed to man - "through the Holy Spirit"

So in this respect "Jesus was the Word" - the word of God. This does not Turn Jesus into God as many wold like... Not the author of John .. nor anyone hearing these words would take this to mean "Jesus was God"

Everyone in the Audience knew what "The Logos" was .. and the author of John wanted to use language that the people were familiar with to increase the appeal of Christinity ...and better define their religious belief.

No one at the time thought that Jesus was "God" .. Jesus was believe to be divine .. but subordinate to the Father.. by all the Christians at that time (sans the ones that thought he was just a man favored by God) believed that Jesus was subordinate to the Father .. This is what the early Church father's believed.

Paul and the disciples did not think Jesus was "God -The Father" .. and certainly Jesus did not believe this .. referring to God as someone distinct from .. and other than himself .. numerous times.

It was around 200 AD when Tertullian first came up with a Trinity Doctrine similar to the one we have today ... This doctrine was viewed by the Church as heretical.

It was not until 325 AD - due to a directive from a Pagan Emperor Constantine for political purposes - that Jesus was finally transformed into Fully God.

Many of the Bishops at Nicene whet home disgusted - at having been forced to sign under duress. It took another 500 years for the old beliefs to be persecuted and killed away. Charlemange finally finished the Job.

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Jesus said, "If you had known me, you would have known the Father. But from now on, you do know him, and you have seen him."
(John 14:7)

Cooper said:

Jesus said, "If you had known me, you would have known the Father. But from now on, you do know him, and you have seen him."
(John 14:7)

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first thanks for the reply. you're correct. some people just keep on missing it, Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,"
Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"
(notice "his" son, shows possission, again Isaiah 63:5).
who is speaking to us today? the very same God in the OT. understand, in the OT God spoke in vision, dreams, and by the prophets, listen, Hosea 12:10 "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets."

but now God is "directly" speaking to us HIMSELF, as the Ordinal Last, the "Son". listen to what he is saying, Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son". THINK PEOPLE who is the SON? Jesus the Christ the Word of God. did one get that? the "WORD" of God, is the Spirit is Speaking. notice the Prep, "OF", it translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction. the Son is the objective which manifest what is not seen, the subjective, not a similitude in apperance as in a burning bush, or a cloud by day, no, but God himself "Manifested" in flesh. wich support the scripture, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." the term, the Son of God, is not God, the Spirit himself, but the container, or the house, ot the temple that he came in, BECAUSE GOD IS NOT BORN. the term Son of God manifest how God, the Spirit is with us, and how is that? by comeing in a "BODY", just like us, scripture, Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;" so God "took part" in our likeness, but was not a "partaker in it. BINGO.

listen, the letter to the 7 churches, question, "who is speaking to these 7 churches?" answer, the Lord Jesus, right.... but how do each letter ends? lets hear it from the bible, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." now go and see for yourself and see how each letter ends. there you will find your answer as to who the "WORD" is in John 1:1. it all comes bak to Isaiah 63:5.

when one know this, then one can understand why God said, "let us make man in our image" at Genesis 1:26, and one will understand why the Holy Spirit appeared as a dove, desending from heaven and at the same time as a man, (manifested), standing in the water.

Manifestation and apperance, ..... oh the beauty of Diversified Oneness.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Cooper said:

Jesus said, "If you had known me, you would have known the Father. But from now on, you do know him, and you have seen him."
(John 14:7)

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Not sure what part of my comment you didn't understand .. the Biblical Scholarship disagrees.. There are numerous ways the passage you quote can be interpreted.. especially once one understand what "The Logos" is = emissary between man and God .. who speaks God's word directly through the Holy Spirit - himself being the embodiment of God's Word .. the messenger of God.

So if you have heard Jesus .. you have heard the Father ...
i
Now .. let us say you disagree with my interpretation .. this is fine .. but, you must admit it is a possibility given your new found knowledge of John 1 .. the author of which did not believe that Jesus was God - The Father .. and nor did anyone to which this gospel was intended - and nor did the early Church Fathers who had John believe that Jesus was God - The Father.

When you go to the Jesus of Matt/Mark .. Jesus always refers to himself as someone other than "The Father" .. in numerous places .. not in language that is difficult to interpret .. but in clear terms.

"My God, My God" Why have you forsaken me - So aside from the obvious .. obviously Jesus is not calling out to himself .. lets pretend otherwise and go with the .. Yup .. thats God The Father hanging there and see how this pans out.

So what .. did God - in some kind of masochistic bliss -- forget who he was ? .. and start calling out to himself .. as if God was someone other than him .. and who is This God that Jesus thinks has forsaken him.

When Jesus ask "The Father" take this cup from my hand .. but be it your will .. then let it be done .. This conversation between Jesus and his Father makes no sense if Jesus is God .. Mark would have never included this ..passage if if he thought Jesus was God .. and we know he didnt .. because always in Mark .. and Matt for that matter - Jesus is depicted as someone other than "The Father"

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man"

If Jesus is God .. how can God know things that Jesus doesn't ... once again Mark/Matt is clearly depicting Jesus as separate from the Father.
This happens numerous times.. Nowhere in the first two Gospels ..is Jesus depicted as "The Father" .

How do you balance .. "I think my interpretation of this one vague passage - and interpretation that Biblical Scholarship massively disagrees with - to the point of stating this in Bible Dictionaries" against Matt/Mark - which states over and over an over and over .. in direct non hard to understand terms - not subject to interpretation .. sans pure Gnostism -but we don't believe that - where the Godhead is a series of emanations known as Aeon's -- and that Jesus was one of these - and this is definitely not saying that Jesus is the Godhead .. just one emanation from it.

Heyzeus said:

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man"

If Jesus is God .. how can God know things that Jesus doesn't ... once again Mark/Matt is clearly depicting Jesus as separate from the Father.
This happens numerous times.. Nowhere in the first two Gospels ..is Jesus depicted as "The Father" .

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that is sheer nonesense. LISTEN AND UNDERSTAND the wisdom of God.

the Godly principle of the "will". Matthew 6:3. listen, "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth". question, how can one do something themselves without knowing about it. your right hand, and left hand is a part of you. the answer, because you "will" it not to be known. sound strange? NO, I have done it. when someone come to me in confidentiality, I will myself not to remember as to what have been said unto me, because I will not to remember it. Let’s see how God do it. scripture, Jeremiah 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more". see that? "and I (will) remember their sin no more". HOLD IT, how can almighty, all knowing God not remember? Answer, it's an act of the will. he wills "not" to remember. just as he said in Matthew 6:3b "let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth", "let" is an act of the will. so how do all of this relates to our Lord's not knowing his return date. answer, Revelation chapter 5. our Lord, Jesus is sitting on the throne. what happens? the Spirit, (the Father, the Holy Ghost), comes and takes the book out of his hand, right, question, which hand did he take the book out of?, the right hand. Remember Matthew 6:3 "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth". by the Father, (the Holy Spirit), taking the book out of his "RIGHT" hand he, the Lord Jesus, wills not to KNOW his return DATE. because the book contains all the information of what's to come. so, only the Father, (the Holy Spirit), knows because the father took the book out of his "RIGHT". by our Lord being in flesh and bone, and as mediator, he fulfills the DAVIDIC PROPHECY, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". The until is written in the book that was in the Lord's right hand, with the seals unbroken. So the Lord Jesus statement is true, no one knows only he who took the book, and that’s the FATHER, his own diversified self. and it is the Father/Holy Spirit who is now on earth, making his enemy his footstool.
Another mystery cleared up, by knowing diversity.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

101G said:

that is sheer nonesense. LISTEN AND UNDERSTAND the wisdom of God.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

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You are welcome to believe that the words of Jesus are sheer nonsense if you wish. Left hand vs Right hand does not help you given.

My God - My God - Why have you forsaken me .. was this a battle in God's mine where one side forsook the other .. God has now compartmentalized is brain because he can't stand being "all knowing"

I wouldn't blame God to be honest .. interesting theory you have .. which explains everything in Matt/Mark .. better call up the Pope and tell him you have finally solved the riddle of the Trinity ...

Heyzeus said:

Not sure what part of my comment you didn't understand .. the Biblical Scholarship disagrees.. There are numerous ways the passage you quote can be interpreted.. especially once one understand what "The Logos" is = emissary between man and God .. who speaks God's word directly through the Holy Spirit - himself being the embodiment of God's Word .. the messenger of God.

So if you have heard Jesus .. you have heard the Father ...
i
Now .. let us say you disagree with my interpretation .. this is fine .. but, you must admit it is a possibility given your new found knowledge of John 1 .. the author of which did not believe that Jesus was God - The Father .. and nor did anyone to which this gospel was intended - and nor did the early Church Fathers who had John believe that Jesus was God - The Father.

When you go to the Jesus of Matt/Mark .. Jesus always refers to himself as someone other than "The Father" .. in numerous places .. not in language that is difficult to interpret .. but in clear terms.

"My God, My God" Why have you forsaken me - So aside from the obvious .. obviously Jesus is not calling out to himself .. lets pretend otherwise and go with the .. Yup .. thats God The Father hanging there and see how this pans out.

So what .. did God - in some kind of masochistic bliss -- forget who he was ? .. and start calling out to himself .. as if God was someone other than him .. and who is This God that Jesus thinks has forsaken him.

When Jesus ask "The Father" take this cup from my hand .. but be it your will .. then let it be done .. This conversation between Jesus and his Father makes no sense if Jesus is God .. Mark would have never included this ..passage if if he thought Jesus was God .. and we know he didnt .. because always in Mark .. and Matt for that matter - Jesus is depicted as someone other than "The Father"

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man"

If Jesus is God .. how can God know things that Jesus doesn't ... once again Mark/Matt is clearly depicting Jesus as separate from the Father.
This happens numerous times.. Nowhere in the first two Gospels ..is Jesus depicted as "The Father" .

How do you balance .. "I think my interpretation of this one vague passage - and interpretation that Biblical Scholarship massively disagrees with - to the point of stating this in Bible Dictionaries" against Matt/Mark - which states over and over an over and over .. in direct non hard to understand terms - not subject to interpretation .. sans pure Gnostism -but we don't believe that - where the Godhead is a series of emanations known as Aeon's -- and that Jesus was one of these - and this is definitely not saying that Jesus is the Godhead .. just one emanation from it.

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If you were writing on paper I would screw it up and throw it in the fire. Jesus and his words mean what they say, nothing more and nothing less
.

Heyzeus said:

You are welcome to believe that the words of Jesus are sheer nonsense if you wish. Left hand vs Right hand does not help you given.

My God - My God - Why have you forsaken me .. was this a battle in God's mine where one side forsook the other .. God has now compartmentalized is brain because he can't stand being "all knowing"

I wouldn't blame God to be honest .. interesting theory you have .. which explains everything in Matt/Mark .. better call up the Pope and tell him you have finally solved the riddle of the Trinity ...

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this is basic bible study, no flesh and BLOOD have ever went into heaven.... that basic bible study. as the Lord Jesus said, John 3:11 "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness."
John 3:12 "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" ... (smile).... lol.

so Heyzeus, if you don't know the basic bible study how can we teach you Spiritual things?

so with that good day to you.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

from reading a few of these posted replies, I can't believe some of the things I'm hearing now, in this day and time. I thought that basic bible study have eliminated these mistake. but I guess I'm in error seeing these types of response.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

janc said:

Sorry but the bible says that there is only one God, not three.

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no "persons" in Yah at all i dont think, yeh