Becoming a perfect Disciple of Christ

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Behold

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The misunderstanding that often occurs when we describe a born again person as "perfect" or "righteous", is because we have to see this in light of GOD's viewpoint.....ONLY.

How does God see you, if you are born again, and you have His Righteousness?.. = "the born again ARE the Righteousness OF GOD...= In Christ".

The mans, you are....."as Christ IS......so are the BORN AGAIN.....in THIS WORLD"...

So, THAT is how God see's the real you.
The REAL YOU< as GOD sees you always.. is your born again Spirit that is born again INTO SPIRITUAL UNION with God and Christ, that has been perfected by the Blood of Jesus, the Blood Atonement.

Look at Hebrews 10:14. "For by one offering GOD hath perfected forever them that are sanctified." That is ALL the Born Again.

And sanctified how?

This is how. = 1 Corinthians 1:30. ... ""But of Him you (the Born again) are in Christ Jesus, WHO BECAME FOR US = wisdom from God—and Righteousness and SANCTIFICATION and REDEMPTION".
Now see that? See how the verses show you that you are MADE ALL this, by God?= So, that is your Born Again Spirit that is BECOME ALL THAT.
You dont work for that, you are already "abiding" there. .. Your born again INNER MAN, that is "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST" RIGHT NOW>...>and tomorrow...is FINISHED.

So, when i say we the born again have no sin, im talking about all THAT ... As that is the REAL ME and YOU..the born again "new creation in CHRIST " REAL ME and YOU. = AS GOD sees US at all times.
If you are born again....You are Perfected, Sanctified, Justified, Redeemed and have Eternal Life, AS the "new Creation" in Christ. = the REAL You.

So, NOW. Once you see that...lets talk about living Holy.
You can only live HOLY because you SEE that the REAL YOU is already ALL THAT.. "in Christ" as the "new Creation".
Could you live holy enough to ever become all that if you were never MADE Righteous by the Blood of JESUS?

A.) NO.

So, its in the knowledge of who you are in Christ, that you go about your discipleship, knowing you are already RIGHTEOUS>. Perfected. Sanctified.. "IN CHRIST".
And when you SEE THIS... when you truly SEE YOURSELF as GOD has MADE YOU TO BE... the "new Creation".... Then your discipleship will have true spiritual power and true influence.
THIS IS "WALKING IN THE SPIRIT". Its what i have shown you in many previous Threads .
Its walking in that Knowledge.. as That is God's GRACE. And you walk in that. You live in that...always , as your "mind of Christ", which IS to "walk in the Spirit", as Right Believing.

Saint, as long as you can't SEE WHO YOU ARE , As God has caused you to be, "In Christ".... then you will fling and flail and fail, trying to "Be good" and "do right", and sin and repent.
You will fight sin and you will lose. You will worry about losing your salvation. You will think you have to work to stay saved. You will "walk in the FLESH".
But once you SEE who you truly are as GOD has MADE You to be..through His GRACE...as a "new CREATION in Christ"...then all that useless self effort will stop and you will begin to walk in the Spirit with power and Victory over your flesh.

But you have to SEE IT . You have to Get this LIGHT, to become that perfect Disciple of Christ.
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Listen, You are not perfect in YOUR eyes.
But you are in God's eyes, and you have to learn to BELIEVE THIS, or you will exist in wrong believing and you will sin and fail and confess and fail, and repent, and fail again.

Saint....How could the blood of Jesus make you less then perfect, in God's eyes?
Meditate on the question, until God gives you the Light.

So, the REAL YOU <is not your body......understand? Its not your will, and its not your behavior.
The REAL YOU< is the BORN AGAIN You, and that YOU is Made PERFECT.....made so by the Blood Atonement and KEPT so by the Blood Atonement, proven by being Born again.
Were this not true then God would not have you, as He certainly wont take you because of your works...as they are ALL the "filthy rags" of self righteousness.

So, ALWAYS SEE YOURSELF as God sees you.
And following this revelation, you will be able to begin to live that holy life, and grow in Grace.
 
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Episkopos

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God sees us as we really are. There is no "fresh white snow covering the dungheap" as taught by false teachers like "Lex" Luther.

Making yourself out to be as God and seeing a fictional righteousness in yourself just brings the wrath of God...not salvation.

Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord...and fear His name.

There may yet be hope for you.
 

Randy Kluth

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The misunderstanding that often occurs when we describe a born again person as "perfect" or "righteous", is because we have to see this in light of GOD's viewpoint.....ONLY.

This formula for success as a Christian really only amounts to an encouragement. There is no real "perspective" that guarantees victory in life. We have to do it one day at a time.

Looking at ourselves a certain way is no better than current psychology methods of "visualization." See yourself as "in Christ" and you will not sin? Not! There is no shortcut to daily learning to overcome the sin nature, the sin propensity. We simply choose, every day, to do the right thing.

Thinking of ourselves as "perfect in Christ" may be true, but it certainly isn't a methodology to ensure we remain perfect. By "perfect" I'm referring only to living a righteous life, and not being sinlessly perfect, which I believe is impossible. Seeing ourselves in Christ certainly doesn't make us perfect!

When the Bible speaks in these terms, it is not actually suggesting we are either perfect or should see ourselves as perfect. Rather, "perfect" just refers to righteous living, even with an imperfect sin nature. For example, take the idea, "If you would be "perfect," you must master sin." This would not mean that we can be sinless, but that we need to live "in righteousness," and not just do right things occasionally. We must be "mature." "Perfection" really suggests "maturity," and not sinlessness.

We see ourselves as sinless only in the *legal sense.* We have to know we're forgiven--not sinless. If we thought we were truly sinless, we wouldn't even worry about sinning. But knowing we still have a sin nature, we are constantly on the guard against our own propensity to sin.
 

Joseph77

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Listen, You are not perfect in YOUR eyes.
But you are in God's eyes, and you have to learn to BELIEVE THIS, or you will exist in wrong believing and you will sin and fail and confess and fail, and repent, and fail again.
Do you therefore believe as you say here : "You are not perfect in YOUR eyes." ?
 
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Cristo Rei

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The misunderstanding that often occurs when we describe a born again person as "perfect" or "righteous", is because we have to see this in light of GOD's viewpoint.....ONLY.

How does God see you, if you are born again, and you have His Righteousness?.. = "the born again ARE the Righteousness OF GOD...= In Christ".

The mans, you are....."as Christ IS......so are the BORN AGAIN.....in THIS WORLD"...

So, THAT is how God see's the real you.
The REAL YOU< as GOD sees you always.. is your born again Spirit that is born again INTO SPIRITUAL UNION with God and Christ, that has been perfected by the Blood of Jesus, the Blood Atonement.

Look at Hebrews 10:14. "For by one offering GOD hath perfected forever them that are sanctified." That is ALL the Born Again.

And sanctified how?

This is how. = 1 Corinthians 1:30. ... ""But of Him you (the Born again) are in Christ Jesus, WHO BECAME FOR US = wisdom from God—and Righteousness and SANCTIFICATION and REDEMPTION".
Now see that? See how the verses show you that you are MADE ALL this, by God?= So, that is your Born Again Spirit that is BECOME ALL THAT.
You dont work for that, you are already "abiding" there. .. Your born again INNER MAN, that is "seated in heavenly places IN CHRIST" RIGHT NOW>...>and tomorrow...is FINISHED.

So, when i say we the born again have no sin, im talking about all THAT ... As that is the REAL ME and YOU..the born again "new creation in CHRIST " REAL ME and YOU. = AS GOD sees US at all times.
If you are born again....You are Perfected, Sanctified, Justified, Redeemed and have Eternal Life, AS the "new Creation" in Christ. = the REAL You.

So, NOW. Once you see that...lets talk about living Holy.
You can only live HOLY because you SEE that the REAL YOU is already ALL THAT.. "in Christ" as the "new Creation".
Could you live holy enough to ever become all that if you were never MADE Righteous by the Blood of JESUS?

A.) NO.

So, its in the knowledge of who you are in Christ, that you go about your discipleship, knowing you are already RIGHTEOUS>. Perfected. Sanctified.. "IN CHRIST".
And when you SEE THIS... when you truly SEE YOURSELF as GOD has MADE YOU TO BE... the "new Creation".... Then your discipleship will have true spiritual power and true influence.
THIS IS "WALKING IN THE SPIRIT". Its what i have shown you in many previous Threads .
Its walking in that Knowledge.. as That is God's GRACE. And you walk in that. You live in that...always , as your "mind of Christ", which IS to "walk in the Spirit", as Right Believing.

Saint, as long as you can't SEE WHO YOU ARE , As God has caused you to be, "In Christ".... then you will fling and flail and fail, trying to "Be good" and "do right", and sin and repent.
You will fight sin and you will lose. You will worry about losing your salvation. You will think you have to work to stay saved. You will "walk in the FLESH".
But once you SEE who you truly are as GOD has MADE You to be..through His GRACE...as a "new CREATION in Christ"...then all that useless self effort will stop and you will begin to walk in the Spirit with power and Victory over your flesh.

But you have to SEE IT . You have to Get this LIGHT, to become that perfect Disciple of Christ.
-
-
Listen, You are not perfect in YOUR eyes.
But you are in God's eyes, and you have to learn to BELIEVE THIS, or you will exist in wrong believing and you will sin and fail and confess and fail, and repent, and fail again.

Saint....How could the blood of Jesus make you less then perfect, in God's eyes?
Meditate on the question, until God gives you the Light.

So, the REAL YOU <is not your body......understand? Its not your will, and its not your behavior.
The REAL YOU< is the BORN AGAIN You, and that YOU is Made PERFECT.....made so by the Blood Atonement and KEPT so by the Blood Atonement, proven by being Born again.
Were this not true then God would not have you, as He certainly wont take you because of your works...as they are ALL the "filthy rags" of self righteousness.

So, ALWAYS SEE YOURSELF as God sees you.
And following this revelation, you will be able to begin to live that holy life, and grow in Grace.

A real modern day living saint we have here... No anger, or hate, or greed, or envy, or pride, or lust, or discord, or dissent, or the like.
Perfect, sinless, righteous in every way...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:...
 
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Joseph77

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A real modern day living saint we have here... No anger, or hate, or greed, or envy, or pride, or lust, or discord, or dissent, or the like.
Perfect, sinless, righteous in every way..
Consider yourself blessed if you understand God's Word by Revelation in Christ Jesus concerning all that He Says in the NT about all of this ... most people on earth have no union with Jesus, no revelation from the Father, and no understanding of anything spiritual ,
according to the Bible plain and simple.
 

justbyfaith

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Now, in agreement with the OP (most of it), I will give my own teaching on the matter.

Romans 4:5 tells us that we have an identity in Christ (that we are righteous) even when we blow it and do things that are ungodly. This identity cannot be trifled with or undermined by sin, if we have faith in Christ and His shed blood.

But now that you have this identity, go and live like it (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6); for the righteousness that is given to you (Romans 5:17) is practical (1 John 3:17-18).
 

Behold

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This formula for success as a Christian really only amounts to an encouragement. There is no real "perspective" that guarantees victory in life.


If you take the time to read my Threads or any of my posts that are related to my Thread's topics, you'll discover that none of them speak to or are related to anything connected to "success in life".
You can have amazing "success in life" and be a lost hell bound sinner.

My Threads are simply teaching how Paul taught the Born Again to become a successful born again believer as designed by the application of God's Blood Atonement.
This simply means to learn how to live within a perfected discipleship.

How to know if you are not in that place of Grace?
You would be sinning and confessing and repenting, convinced this is "how Christians do it", and more then likely you also believe that you can lose your salvation.
So, my Thread's are designed to only teach Pauline Theology, so that anyone who actually cares to stop living a failed Christianity, after so many years of sinning and confessing and repenting, can be freed from the bondage that is causing them to do this to themselves.
 

Behold

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A real modern day living saint we have here... No anger, or hate, or greed, or envy, or pride, or lust, or discord, or dissent, or the like.
Perfect, sinless, righteous in every way...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:...

Im only as Righteous as the Blood of God has made me.
How righteous, how HOLY is God's Blood (Jesus on the Cross)?
Do you have any idea?
Well, if you can realize that, then you'll understand that all the Born again, (me included) are exactly that like that, for eternity.
Welcome to Salvation.
 

Behold

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This statement reeks of gnosticism.

You have no idea what Gnosis consists of...
You talk, and its the words of opinion, dressed as "teacher".

Let me help you.
"Gnostic" is the mental reality or spiritual perspective of being "gnosis".
Gnosis, or the "gnostic state".... if you want to know how to understand it, you would study the teaching of Valentinus.
Valentinus was a contemporary of Origen and Theudas.
Are you paying attention?
Wake up. !!!

Theudas was Paul's disciple who taught Valentinus, who was his disciple.
Valentinus was a ROMAN who is more or less the Father of Gnostic spirituality..tho that is with exception.
He became a heretic in his Theology as he grew older, and after this happened to him, he almost became a POPE.
Yes, really.
So, when you want to discover gnosticism in practice, then go to the early Catholic "fathers", the early writers, and study very very early Catholicism.

"Gnosticism" teaches that there are 2 main deity's. A female and HER "lesser".
This lesser deity, as taught by gnosticism, is our Yahweh/Jehovah, essentially.

Gnostics teach that our Jehovah is a failed (secondary) deity who is associated with creation but not the actual Creator...sort of a "in control of it" but not the creator of All.
Gnostics teach that because this "lower deity" was a failure, is why the world system, and man, is a spiritual failure.
Gnostics do NOT believe in "sin", and they do NOT believe in "redemption from evil or sin".
They do not believe that a Cross and a Savior is necessary for restoration of all humanity back into God's family.

Do i teach any of that nonsense and heresy?
Only if you are spiritually blind, filled with envy, and are "stuck on stupid", would you think that about my Theology.

I teach that we the Born again, had sin, and we hadmno righteousness, and THAT is why we are separated from GOD, in a "lost" condition, previously facing Judgement, and previously DAMNED... John 3:36
And its only the CROSS and God dying on it which offers us both redemption from SIN, and His very own Righteousness" as our "eternal salvation". "the gift of Righteousness".

So, if you are able to comprehend what i just explained..????????????????, then PM - epsikopos and charismaticlady and cut and paste this post, and put it in their respective PM boxes, so that they can finally have a clue about ME vs "gnostic" teaching as both of these people are lost in space regarding understanding, apparently, anything about my Cross centered Pauline Theology vs Gnosis theology.
 

Cristo Rei

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Im only as Righteous as the Blood of God has made me.
How righteous, how HOLY is God's Blood (Jesus on the Cross)?
Do you have any idea?
Well, if you can realize that, then you'll understand that all the Born again, (me included) are exactly that like that, for eternity.
Welcome to Salvation.

So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!... Romans 7 :21-25

Paul knows my struggles all to well, he speaks openly about his spritual war against the temptations of the evil one.
We don't hear it much from the other apostles but, why is it only really Paul that struggles with sin...

Well he persecuted Christ while all the other apostles were always with Christ. I persecuted Christ in my heart. I took off like the prodigal son and ended up in a dark place, deep behind enemy lines. We didn't follow God's will but the will of the evil one, he learnt our every strength and weakness and build a shelter in us.

I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”... 2 Corinthians 12:7-9

And so this is the cross that people like Paul and myself must carry, dressed in the armour of God to stand in defiant defence against the attacks of the evil one. The war only ends when I die.

Paul knows my path, God knows my path.

We have such polar opposite approaches. I can't imagine what u describe and u probably can't imagine this.
But both of us have scripture to support us...
U know, there are billions of people on earth and we're all different.
Does Christ have only the one path for everyone?
Does everyone have to take my path or that path or your path? If we all took the same path how wide would the path be?
But we are asked to take the narrow path, right? It makes more sense to me that different people have there own narrow path.


Hoping for the best, ready for the worse...
 

Randy Kluth

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If you take the time to read my Threads or any of my posts that are related to my Thread's topics, you'll discover that none of them speak to or are related to anything connected to "success in life".
You can have amazing "success in life" and be a lost hell bound sinner.

My Threads are simply teaching how Paul taught the Born Again to become a successful born again believer as designed by the application of God's Blood Atonement.
This simply means to learn how to live within a perfected discipleship.

How to know if you are not in that place of Grace?
You would be sinning and confessing and repenting, convinced this is "how Christians do it", and more then likely you also believe that you can lose your salvation.
So, my Thread's are designed to only teach Pauline Theology, so that anyone who actually cares to stop living a failed Christianity, after so many years of sinning and confessing and repenting, can be freed from the bondage that is causing them to do this to themselves.

I agree with the sentiment behind your burden here. As Christians we need to live in spiritual victory, and not necessarily be blessed in this world. I don't personally believe I will lose my salvation. I'm a OSAS person. And I don't think we should always be falling into sin.

On the other hand, we continue to have the sin nature even as genuine Christians. The more saintly you are, the more aware you will be of your innate sinfulness.

This doesn't mean we're not overcoming. On the contrary, the more holy we become, the more aware we become of our unworthiness, and of our need to depend on the Lord.
 
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Behold

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So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!...

Paul's struggle here isn't with the world and the devil.
Notice that he has the struggle, then he solves the struggle...>""delivers me".
Paul says this..>"Christ always gives him the VICTORY".

So, what Paul is explaining is the process of coming into the understanding of why a believer fails to live holy and is confessing and repenting, = "oh wretched man that i am".. = THE FLESH.....walking in the flesh....trying to stop sinning by WILL POWER.

then......"thanks be to God"..."Christ always gives me the Victory"......"if you walk in the Spirit you shall not SIN"..

So, we see Paul explaining the process of wrong believing and the eventual right believing that led to perfected discipleship.
This is what most of My Thread's are teaching.
How to do this...how to believe RIGHT.
 

Behold

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I agree with the sentiment behind your burden here. As Christians we need to live in spiritual victory, and not necessarily be blessed in this world. I don't personally believe I will lose my salvation. I'm a OSAS person. And I don't think we should always be falling into sin.

On the other hand, we continue to have the sin nature even as genuine Christians. The more saintly you are, the more aware you will be of your innate sinfulness.

This doesn't mean we're not overcoming. On the contrary, the more holy we become, the more aware we become of our unworthiness, and of our need to depend on the Lord.

I wrote a short teaching Thread for you...

Here :

How to SEE your want out of BONDAGE
 

Behold

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Apparently you have been influenced by the gnostic writings that you have read.

Because you have taught gnostic heresy on these boards.

You are not telling the truth, again.

You would like people here to think that ive done this, and that is why yuo have never ever posted any "gnostic" teaching, that compares to anything i teach.
Not one word, or quote, of "gnostic" teaching have you posted, or even tried to as a "side by side comparison", attempted to show what you are talking about, that you say, im doing.
This is also the case of episkopos and charismaticlady.
All three of you have deeply deceived the other members here, by stating that i teach "gnostic" teaching, yet you 3 deceivers have never posted any gnostic teaching so that the other members here can see for themselves that you are lying.
And that is WHY YOU DONT DO IT.
How could you.????
Thats the reality.
 

justbyfaith

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All three of you have deeply deceived the other members here, by stating that i teach "gnostic" teaching, yet you 3 deceivers have never posted any gnostic teaching so that the other members here can see for themselves that you are lying.

Why don't you post the gnostic teachings since you have access to them?

I am told by Christian pastors what the gnostics taught to their converts.

A big thing in their book was that spirit is good and matter is evil; so that sins of the spirit are non-existent but that sins of the body don't matter.

This is exactly what you imply when you say that the body is not the real "us".

You think your BODY is the real you?
Is your body born again?

So, what "reeks", is your teaching ability and your theology.

I am saved in my spirit and soul and body (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

In my body, in that it is crucified (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24) so that sin is rendered dead (Romans 7:8); in order that I may walk in freedom and victory over it because it doesn't have any control over me.
 
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