Irrefutable proof that Jesus is God.

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."

Here Jesus is describe by God himself the Holy Spirit as a "MAN", but also as HIS, HIS, HIS, fellow..... meaning God.

PICJAG.

while I agree this is a prophecy referring to Jesus Christ, nowhere in this scripture is Jesus said to be God.
 

101G

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Jesus was born before Adam and any living thing.(Col 1).
ERROR, Jesus is never born. what was born was flesh
Jesus resurrected before Lazarus etc.(Col 1).
ERROR, Lazarus was never resurrected, only restored.
God made all things by, through and for Jesus(Col 1).
ERROR, God, who is Jesus Made all things by himself, ALONE. he didn't go through anyone. Isaiah 44:24.
Jesus was made per conception, beginning microscopic(Matt 1),
ERROR, the body was concieved, meaning was prepared, see Hebrews 10:5
He was resurrected by his God(John 20 etc).
ERROR, he rose his body up, meaning he the Spirit. John 2:19
All of his God fully indwells his quickening spirit body, meaning God is "housed" in the bodily omnipresent temple of His quickening spirit son.(Col 2:9).
ERROR, not his God, but his Spirit... (spirit), indwells not only that body but heaven and Earth... :eek:
esus still has a God today.(Rev 3:12).
ERROR, he is God.
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
ERROR Jesus is the LAMB, because the Lamb of God is no more.
Simply put, God is the electricity that powers His son(lamb) to light the world.
ERROR JESUS is the power and the Light.

PICJAG.
 
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101G

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while I agree this is a prophecy referring to Jesus Christ, nowhere in this scripture is Jesus said to be God.
glad you agree so far, now is this the same person in John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24?

your answer please.

PICJAG.
 
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Nancy

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while I agree this is a prophecy referring to Jesus Christ, nowhere in this scripture is Jesus said to be God.

Funny how Christ forgave sins...I thought that only belonged to God Himself. He existed with God all along, He was not "created" or "born" as...He always was and always will be. you can keep your beliefs and I hope you will one day be softened enough to at least look into other things and have an attitude of being teachable otherwise, if what you believe is in error you will blindly follow that error and will be held accountable, as we all will. I've learned much on this site and even through those I do not agree with, and that would be most on here as I do not believe everything I read or hear on here BUT...I will still check out the posts to see if God shows me something through them.
God Bless
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Then you disagree with Col 2:9.

It says clearly that every bit of what God consists of is inside the body of Jesus Christ.

This is why a person cannot go around the omnipresent Jesus, and somehow bypass him and get to the Father.

Every word you speak to God, you must speak to Jesus now.

He is the mediator, so he will petition God for you in your every prayer.

Never bypass the mediator for anything, because his God will not honor bypassing him....


First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.



Colossians 2:9:

KJ reads: “In him [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead [Greek, the·oʹte·tos] bodily.” (A similar thought is conveyed by the renderings in NE, RS, JB, NAB, Dy.) However, NW reads: “It is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.” (AT, We, and CKW read “God’s nature,” instead of “Godhead.” Compare 2 Peter 1:4.)

Admittedly, not everyone offers the same interpretation of Colossians 2:9. But what is in agreement with the rest of the inspired letter to the Colossians? Did Christ have in himself something that is his because he is God, part of a Trinity? Or is “the fullness” that dwells in him something that became his because of the decision of someone else? Colossians 1:19 (KJ, Dy) says that all fullness dwelt in Christ because it “pleased the Father” for this to be the case. NE says it was “by God’s own choice.”

Consider the immediate context of Colossians 2:9: In verse 8, readers are warned against being misled by those who advocate philosophy and human traditions. They are also told that in Christ “are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” and are urged to “live in him” and to be “rooted and built up in him and established in the faith.” (Verses 3, 6, 7) It is in him, and not in the originators or the teachers of human philosophy, that a certain precious “fulness” dwells. Was the apostle Paul there saying that the “fulness” that was in Christ made Christ God himself? Not according to Colossians 3:1, where Christ is said to be “seated at the right hand of God.”—See KJ, Dy, TEV, NAB.

According to Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, the·oʹtes (the nominative form, from which the·oʹte·tos is derived) means “divinity, divine nature.” (Oxford, 1968, p. 792) Being true “divinity,” or of “divine nature,” does not make Jesus as the Son of God coequal and coeternal with the Father, especially since this divine nature or divinity that dwells in Jesus Christ became his because his father and God decided this to be so. Noone decided that The True God would have Divine nature or have true divinity.
 

Randy Kluth

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Randy. You said in #45 and I quoted you, "One Person of the Trinity is not another Person of the Trinity. That is Modalism!"

It is not modalism Randy. It is Trinitarism. According to Trinitarism one person of the Trinity is NOT another parson of the Trinity.
You have it the wrong way round.

The Father is NOT the Son and the Son is NOT the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is NOT the Father, but they are One God. That is Trinitarism, and not Modalism.

Did you not see it in the diagram. Please stop and think before making yourself look silly.
.

You really seem confused? Yes, I said, "one Person of the Trinity is not another Person of the Trinity." That is, for a fact, Modalism!

But here's where the confusing part comes in. You deny what I said, and then repeat exactly what I said, that Trinitarianism is not Modalism, and does not teach what Modalism teaches, that "one Person of the Trinity is not another Person of the Trinity."

What am I missing here?
 

Joseph77

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Funny how Christ forgave sins...I thought that only belonged to God Himself. He existed with God all along, He was not "created" or "born" as...He always was and always will be. you can keep your beliefs and I hope you will one day be softened enough to at least look into other things and have an attitude of being teachable otherwise, if what you believe is in error you will blindly follow that error and will be held accountable, as we all will. I've learned much on this site and even through those I do not agree with, and that would be most on here as I do not believe everything I read or hear on here BUT...I will still check out the posts to see if God shows me something through them.
God Bless
Simon barjona recognized Jesus is God, and Jesus said Blessed art thou to Simon.

Jesus does not say blessed are thou to those other people who deny Jesus is God.

Jesus does not say Simon barjona learned that Jesus is God by looking into it/ not by study/ not by his own doing/ not by anything he did. Flesh and blood did not reveal it, nor can it.
 
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Cooper

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You really seem confused? Yes, I said, "one Person of the Trinity is not another Person of the Trinity." That is, for a fact, Modalism!

But here's where the confusing part comes in. You deny what I said, and then repeat exactly what I said, that Trinitarianism is not Modalism, and does not teach what Modalism teaches, that "one Person of the Trinity is not another Person of the Trinity."

What am I missing here?
I repeated what you said to show you your error, but obviously you haven't picked up on it.

Anyway, it obviously hasn't registered, so don't go telling people who believe in three distinct co/existing persons of the Trinity that they are Modalists otherwise they will be upset, and maybe even angry.
.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Funny how Christ forgave sins...I thought that only belonged to God Himself. He existed with God all along, He was not "created" or "born" as...He always was and always will be. you can keep your beliefs and I hope you will one day be softened enough to at least look into other things and have an attitude of being teachable otherwise, if what you believe is in error you will blindly follow that error and will be held accountable, as we all will. I've learned much on this site and even through those I do not agree with, and that would be most on here as I do not believe everything I read or hear on here BUT...I will still check out the posts to see if God shows me something through them.
God Bless

All that means to me is that you and others who agree with you, don't have faith that The Father and God of Jesus has given His Only Begotten Son the authority to forgive sins.
I'm not going to ignore scriptures that show Jesus has a God and Father and I'm not just talking about when Jesus was a perfect human on Earth. In the New Testament, Jesus is said to have a God and Father. Even in Revelations.
 

justbyfaith

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Who believes in Tritheism?

Those who hold that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate rather than distinct.

The Father is NOT the Son and the Son is NOT the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is NOT the Father, but they are One God.

They are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

GINOLJC to all.
first thanks for the reply, second, justbyfaith, justbyfaith, justbyfaith, are you listing to yourself? the term "Father" is a title, do you get it yet? the term "Father" is NOT, is NOT a person, but a title. My God. Jesus is that Spirit, the Holy Spirit who diversified himself in flesh. are you now seeing the picture? the terms "Father" and "Son" are TITLES of the ONE person Jesus who is the Holy Spirit.

THINK for a second. place the Holy Spirit as center, and ONLY in the Godhead, he holds the titles "Father" without flesh, and "Son" with flesh... "diversified". there is no such thing as Father and Son as persons. do you understand that. there is no all 3, there is no all at all. he Jesus is God all in all.

PICJAG.

So you're saying that Jesus Christ, the Father, exists in two different places as the same Person.

1) Inhabiting eternity, outside of time, as an eternal Spirit; and,

2) in the flesh, in the Person of Jesus Christ.

I think I agree with that.

In it, God as He exists in eternity is distinct from God as He dwells in human flesh, however.
 
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101G

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Those who hold that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate rather than distinct.



They are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).



So you're saying that Jesus Christ, the Father, exists in two different places as the same Person.

1) Inhabiting eternity, outside of time, as an eternal Spirit; and,

2) in the flesh, in the Person of Jesus Christ.

I think I agree with that.

In it, God as He exists in eternity is distinct from God as He dwells in human flesh, however.
Thanks for the reply, yes, Good on that point, because your're correct on Inhabiting eternity, and in "Intrinsic Spatia", a body on earth, supportive scripture, John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
at the same time on earth, speaking with Nicodemus, in a flesh body, Jesus was in heaven as the eternal Spirit. this is what "diversity" is all about.

good deductive reasoning, justbyfaith ... ;)

PICJAG.
 
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Cooper

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Those who hold that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate rather than distinct.

They are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

So you're saying that Jesus Christ, the Father, exists in two different places as the same Person.

1) Inhabiting eternity, outside of time, as an eternal Spirit; and,

2) in the flesh, in the Person of Jesus Christ.
I think I agree with that.

In it, God as He exists in eternity is distinct from God as He dwells in human flesh, however.

You put it beautifully. We need to dwell and meditate on those inspired words of yours, reading them several times over, so they shall enter our heart and mind. God bless.

They are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

And they stoned Stephen, who was calling on God and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And kneeling down, he cried with a loud voice, Lord, do not lay this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
(Acts 7:59-60 MKJV)

.
 
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Nancy

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All that means to me is that you and others who agree with you, don't have faith that The Father and God of Jesus has given His Only Begotten Son the authority to forgive sins.
I'm not going to ignore scriptures that show Jesus has a God and Father and I'm not just talking about when Jesus was a perfect human on Earth. In the New Testament, Jesus is said to have a God and Father. Even in Revelations.

So, Thomas was wrong when he said to Jesus: "My Lord and my God!"
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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So, Thomas was wrong when he said to Jesus: "My Lord and my God!"


On the occasion of Jesus’ appearance to Thomas and the other apostles, which had removed Thomas’ doubts of Jesus’ resurrection, the now-convinced Thomas exclaimed to Jesus: “My Lord and my God!" (Joh 20:24-29) Some scholars have viewed this expression as an exclamation of astonishment spoken to Jesus but actually directed to God, his Father. However, others claim the original Greek requires that the words be viewed as being directed to Jesus. Even if this is so, the expression “My Lord and my God” would still have to harmonize with the rest of the inspired Scriptures. Since the record shows that Jesus had previously sent his disciples the message, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God,” so what Jesus was wrong when he said that. John himself, after recounting Thomas’ encounter with the resurrected Jesus, says of this and similar accounts: “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.”—Joh 20:30, 31.
 

Truther

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Colossians 2:9:

KJ reads: “In him [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead [Greek, the·oʹte·tos] bodily.” (A similar thought is conveyed by the renderings in NE, RS, JB, NAB, Dy.) However, NW reads: “It is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.” (AT, We, and CKW read “God’s nature,” instead of “Godhead.” Compare 2 Peter 1:4.)

Admittedly, not everyone offers the same interpretation of Colossians 2:9. But what is in agreement with the rest of the inspired letter to the Colossians? Did Christ have in himself something that is his because he is God, part of a Trinity? Or is “the fullness” that dwells in him something that became his because of the decision of someone else? Colossians 1:19 (KJ, Dy) says that all fullness dwelt in Christ because it “pleased the Father” for this to be the case. NE says it was “by God’s own choice.”

Consider the immediate context of Colossians 2:9: In verse 8, readers are warned against being misled by those who advocate philosophy and human traditions. They are also told that in Christ “are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” and are urged to “live in him” and to be “rooted and built up in him and established in the faith.” (Verses 3, 6, 7) It is in him, and not in the originators or the teachers of human philosophy, that a certain precious “fulness” dwells. Was the apostle Paul there saying that the “fulness” that was in Christ made Christ God himself? Not according to Colossians 3:1, where Christ is said to be “seated at the right hand of God.”—See KJ, Dy, TEV, NAB.

According to Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, the·oʹtes (the nominative form, from which the·oʹte·tos is derived) means “divinity, divine nature.” (Oxford, 1968, p. 792) Being true “divinity,” or of “divine nature,” does not make Jesus as the Son of God coequal and coeternal with the Father, especially since this divine nature or divinity that dwells in Jesus Christ became his because his father and God decided this to be so. Noone decided that The True God would have Divine nature or have true divinity.
Congratulations.
You just debunked Col 2:9, Barney.

You just joined the modern seminarians that say only some of God dwells in Jesus bodily...and not all the fullness.

You also demoted Jesus Christ in the process.
 

Truther

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ERROR, Jesus is never born. what was born was flesh

ERROR, Lazarus was never resurrected, only restored.

ERROR, God, who is Jesus Made all things by himself, ALONE. he didn't go through anyone. Isaiah 44:24.

ERROR, the body was concieved, meaning was prepared, see Hebrews 10:5

ERROR, he rose his body up, meaning he the Spirit. John 2:19

ERROR, not his God, but his Spirit... (spirit), indwells not only that body but heaven and Earth... :eek:

ERROR, he is God.

ERROR Jesus is the LAMB, because the Lamb of God is no more.

ERROR JESUS is the power and the Light.

PICJAG.
You just debunked God....


23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

You made it say this....

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it,... AS the Lamb WHICH is the light thereof.
 

Truther

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while I agree this is a prophecy referring to Jesus Christ, nowhere in this scripture is Jesus said to be God.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.


Do you agree with Thomas?
 

Randy Kluth

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Those who hold that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are separate rather than distinct.

Nobody in the Christian world believes that AFAIK!

They are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).
So you're saying that Jesus Christ, the Father, exists in two different places as the same Person.

That statement doesn't make sense. Jesus Christ is *not* the Father. They do not exist in two different places, since the Father is everywhere, and Jesus is in a place where the Father is, as well. They are only the same Person in the sense that they are both God. But one Person of the Trinity is not the same as another Person of the Trinity. Your language seems confused?

1) Inhabiting eternity, outside of time, as an eternal Spirit; and,

2) in the flesh, in the Person of Jesus Christ.

I think I agree with that.

In it, God as He exists in eternity is distinct from God as He dwells in human flesh, however.

Sounds right. God, however, is both inside of and outside of time, as an eternal Spirit. He thus includes in His domain the domain of Christ in time. There is no separation in the Deity of the Father and the Deity of the Son. But I agree--the Persons of the Father and of the Son must be distinguished, since the Persons of the Trinity are defined by their various distinctions.
 

Randy Kluth

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I repeated what you said to show you your error, but obviously you haven't picked up on it.

Anyway, it obviously hasn't registered, so don't go telling people who believe in three distinct co/existing persons of the Trinity that they are Modalists otherwise they will be upset, and maybe even angry.
.

On the contrary, brother, I believe it's you who don't understand. Again, I told you something, and you disagreed with it. Then you proceeded to say exactly what I had said, even providing a diagram to spell it out!

You provided a diagram which I completely agreed with. But you go on claiming I believe something else. What is it you think I believe? If I agreed with your diagram, surely you must think I believe what's right?

Again, all 3 Persons of the Trinity are the one God, but are distinct as Persons. This is orthodox theology. 3 Persons and 1 substance. Why you think this is wrong is beyond me?