Discernment vs Critisism

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Scoot

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Just wondering - at what point do you believe discernment crosses the line into criticism, and how do you check yourselves to make sure that you walk in discernment, but not take on a critical spirit?
 
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CharismaticLady

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Just wondering - at what point do you believe discernment crosses the line into criticism, and how do you check yourselves to make sure that you walk in discernment, but not take on a critical spirit?

Cultivate the fruit of the Spirit. Post scriptures that plainly state your case. More than one would be best, as scripture explains and confirms scripture.
 

justbyfaith

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Don't accuse someone of lying who was merely misinformed on the subject at hand and repeated what they were told.
 

justbyfaith

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Yes, but try to cultivate immediate forgiveness if someone accuses you falsely. They are trespasses. Try to reconcile with your brother or sister. Matthew 6:14-15.
If the accusation is false, forgiveness is not needed except for the person who did the accusing...they need to be forgiven.

Luk 17:3, Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

What if they don't repent? I believe that the scripture is saying here not to forgive them.

See also Isaiah 54:17.
 
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Randy Kluth

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Just wondering - at what point do you believe discernment crosses the line into criticism, and how do you check yourselves to make sure that you walk in discernment, but not take on a critical spirit?

We're supposed to follow the Spirit in season and out of season. Out of season means we go through times when it is particularly difficult not to be grumpy and critical. We have to wade into these troubled waters, and still testify to the grace and power of God. Just persist, and keep a loving attitude up front. Do all things for the purpose of edification. Consider others better than yourselves. The servant is the greatest. The last shall be the first. You know the verses. The Spirit will help you. Practice it every day. You'll never be perfect, but you'll become the measure against which others will judge themselves, as well.
 
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bbyrd009

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Just wondering - at what point do you believe discernment crosses the line into criticism, and how do you check yourselves to make sure that you walk in discernment, but not take on a critical spirit?
irl i would say that one discerns for themselves, right? Not others, iow?
 

CharismaticLady

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If the accusation is false, forgiveness is not needed except for the person who did the accusing...they need to be forgiven.

Luk 17:3, Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

What if they don't repent? I believe that the scripture is saying here not to forgive them.

See also Isaiah 54:17.

Having a false accusation said against you is their trespass, but we need to do the forgiving so our own trespasses will be forgiven. In other words, don't hold it against them. They probably believe what they are saying. When both parties disagree and they both think they are right, who is to repent? God wants us to reconcile. This is only regarding trespasses.

If your wife commits adultery, that is NOT a trespass. It is willful lawlessness. We are not commanded to forgive them, unless they repent and turn away from their lover. If that wife divorces you and marries the lover, and tells you they are sorry for hurting you, that is NOT repentance. What God forgives, we must forgive. But what God doesn't forgive, unrepentant willful lawlessness, He doesn't ask us to do more than He will. That goes for murders and thieves. But do not allow a root of bitterness to take hold. Turn your grief over to Jesus.
 
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DNB

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Just wondering - at what point do you believe discernment crosses the line into criticism, and how do you check yourselves to make sure that you walk in discernment, but not take on a critical spirit?
It depends on the intent of your scrutiny. If you're discerning in order to protect yourself or others, or even to correct, I would strongly believe that that's acceptable, and highly advised. But, if your solely attempting to perceive a flaw in order to make an accusation, or for self-righteous reasons, then you've perverted the principle of wisdom and insight.
 

marksman

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Just wondering - at what point do you believe discernment crosses the line into criticism, and how do you check yourselves to make sure that you walk in discernment, but not take on a critical spirit?
Discernment can involve criticism. If a person is preaching blasphemy, you don't say to them, "There there, be a good boy and forget that idea." You speak the truth and correct the mistake.

When Jesus got angry about the money changers in the temple, (yes he did get angry) he didn't go to each one of them and say "Be a good boy and take your money changing elsewhere. This is not the place for it." He took a whip and told them to bu***er off in no uncertain terms.
I do realize that some people here could not contemplate such action because it wasn't loving, but without truth, there is no love.
 

justbyfaith

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Having a false accusation said against you is their trespass, but we need to do the forgiving so our own trespasses will be forgiven. In other words, don't hold it against them. They probably believe what they are saying. When both parties disagree and they both think they are right, who is to repent? God wants us to reconcile. This is only regarding trespasses.

If your wife commits adultery, that is NOT a trespass. It is willful lawlessness. We are not commanded to forgive them, unless they repent and turn away from their lover. If that wife divorces you and marries the lover, and tells you they are sorry for hurting you, that is NOT repentance. What God forgives, we must forgive. But what God doesn't forgive, unrepentant willful lawlessness, He doesn't ask us to do more than He will. That goes for murders and thieves. But do not allow a root of bitterness to take hold. Turn your grief over to Jesus.
I will forgive them when they repent. That's what the Bible tells me to do.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Just wondering - at what point do you believe discernment crosses the line into criticism, and how do you check yourselves to make sure that you walk in discernment, but not take on a critical spirit?
While be discerning, a person can and should be rational and respectful when learning about another. Bashing and other irrational behavior is the opposite of that.
 
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CharismaticLady

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I will forgive them when they repent. That's what the Bible tells me to do.

I'll go the extra mile, just in case the forgiveness of my own trespasses depends on it. Heaven is nothing to play chance with. Besides, unforgiveness of a trespass may be a trespass held against me! Trespasses may be small, but they are big enough to prevent me from being perfect as Jesus told us to be.
 
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Hidden In Him

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Just wondering - at what point do you believe discernment crosses the line into criticism, and how do you check yourselves to make sure that you walk in discernment, but not take on a critical spirit?


Interesting question: I think the point where you know you have crossed a line is where you succumb to being offended, and speak out in anger rather than out of concern for the other person. I am normally fairly patient with others, and I try to minister out of consideration even when they are being insulting and offensive to me. But there comes a time when I often discern they are only hurting themselves by remaining obstinate, and refusing to listen to reason but holding doggedly to some doctrine or view point regardless of what anyone else or even scripture is saying. It is usually at that point that the Spirit will have me change course and issue some sort of rebuke. But so long as I'm not doing it in anger, I believe myself to still be operating in discernment, and speaking and acting as the Lord would have me. So this is how I would describe the potential "change" that might make it seem like I am becoming critical, but I'm actually not. Just following a different leading.

The Spirit Himself doesn't get "critical" really. He just gives the believer a sense of needing to correct, in love.
 
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Joseph77

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Just wondering - at what point do you believe discernment crosses the line into criticism, and how do you check yourselves to make sure that you walk in discernment, but not take on a critical spirit?
Notice in Scripture:
the permanent disciples of Jesus learn from Him and from the Father, by Revelation, the Truth, and speak the Words as from the Father, and DO as the Father Directs not on their own initiative at all, nor for themselves, but selflessly (dead to self and dead to the world and the world dead to us)... obediently, not driven nor led by feelings, emotions, or evil spirits or false teachers.
 

Giuliano

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Just wondering - at what point do you believe discernment crosses the line into criticism, and how do you check yourselves to make sure that you walk in discernment, but not take on a critical spirit?
I believe that if the Holy Spirit is behind an effort to correct me or anyone else, there must always be an idea about how to improve the situation.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

If a sheep falls down a cliff and can't get out, the shepherd finds it and provides a way of escape. If we see flaws in others, we should also be able to imagine how their lives could be better. I seldom criticize anyone outright. I tend to make suggestions about how they could get better results in their lives.

I knew a woman who used to go drinking in bars. When she was drunk, she picked up men and had sex with them. Then when they ditched her after using her for sex, her feelings were hurt. I thought I knew her well enough to tell her, "You're not going to get what you want doing that. If you want a man to love you, that's not going to work. It hasn't worked in the past. What makes you think it will work in the future? Stop thinking men who only want sex are going to love you if you give them sex." I said it in a way that she knew I cared about her. I wanted her to be happy. She was trying to find love -- I saw the good in it, her goal was right -- but she was going about it in a way that didn't get her the love she wanted.

I could have preached about the evils of fornication, I guess, but I could see how "sin" had harmed her and was still harming her. I didn't need to condemn her. I wanted her to stop being harmed. I was trying to show her a better way to live. She didn't listen to me right then; and I haven't seen her in a long time, but the last time I asked her brother, he said she had stopped the crazy drinking and was better off.
 

Joseph77

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I believe that if the Holy Spirit is behind an effort to correct me or anyone else, there must always be an idea about how to improve the situation.

This is in agreement with the four Gospel accounts (all accounts really) of Jesus -

He did not "pull His punches" in words, when speaking to the sons of the devil, did He? He spoke directly , always, what the Father in Heaven Said/ Directed Him to Say, clearly. It was ALWAYS for the best - as God is Perfect, and He Alone Knows what is best. Yes, even for the wicked - the only chance they have, the only chance the bringers of the false teachers here on the forum have, the only chance anyone who believed one of the false gospels has, is to come to Jesus, stop what they are doing, stop what they are posting/ talking/ living, and pray /ask/ Jesus (not one of the idoals) , for help and for forgiveness, willingly repenting, willing to follow Jesus, abandoning all else as Jesus directs .....

"how to improve the situation" - how to be healed, how to be saved - even for the most wicked (perhaps?) (the ones not given over already to believe their own delusions; the ones who did not yet trample underfoot the grace of God and are left with no sacrifice for their sins as written) , Jesus brings the solution, when there is one, to sinners.
 

Giuliano

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Interesting question: I think the point where you know you have crossed a line is where you succumb to being offended, and speak out in anger rather than out of concern for the other person. I am normally fairly patient with others, and I try to minister out of consideration even when they are being insulting and offensive to me. But there comes a time when I often discern they are only hurting themselves by remaining obstinate, and refusing to listen to reason but holding doggedly to some doctrine or view point regardless of what anyone else or even scripture is saying. It is usually at that point that the Spirit will have me change course and issue some sort of rebuke. But so long as I'm not doing it in anger, I believe myself to still be operating in discernment, and speaking and acting as the Lord would have me. So this is how I would describe the potential "change" that might make it seem like I am becoming critical, but I'm actually not. Just following a different leading.

The Spirit Himself doesn't get "critical" really. He just gives the believer a sense of needing to correct, in love.
I think sometimes when people get angry, the best course is to leave them alone. If they are mistaking your compassion for negative criticism, odds are you won't succeed with them, at least not then. I'm apt to say something like, "I don't want to argue about this; and if you think I'm trying to put you down, I'll just shut up and mind my own business. I'm not your boss."

Odds are that someone who confuses compass with negative criticism has a history of being around people who pretended to care. Maybe they had a father who enjoyed beating them while saying, "I'm doing this for your good." Perhaps they had manipulative spouses who oozed fake compassion. If you fight with them, it convinces them that they were right: You really didn't care about them -- you just wanted to put them down. Walking away can surprise them. In some cases, it can wake them up and bring them to their senses if you opt to walk away. They say, "I wonder why he gave up so easily? What did he want from me by criticizing me?" It can dawn on them finally that you didn't want anything from them -- so you left them to do whatever they wanted. Then they may finally wonder if you had true compassion? Is such a thing really possible?
 

Hidden In Him

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I think sometimes when people get angry, the best course is to leave them alone. If they are mistaking your compassion for negative criticism, odds are you won't succeed with them, at least not then. I'm apt to say something like, "I don't want to argue about this; and if you think I'm trying to put you down, I'll just shut up and mind my own business. I'm not your boss."

Thanks for sharing. I used to take this approach, but something changed awhile back. I noticed I was starting to be more persistent, and push through more. I'm finding that if I am kind enough with my words, it has a way of calming them down. That's not to say it is some kind of debating trick. I tend to despise that sort of a thing. I believe it to be the Spirit of God in me simply becoming stronger than the spirit in others, and overcoming evil with good. I find that in many cases it leaves a man running from you. The Spirit will crawl up into their mind and heart, and suddenly the conversation is getting more personal than they had planned.

Again, it's not a trick. It's simply what the Spirit has me doing more now, and it is amazing how the Spirit of God can disarm people when what you say and are led to say is spoken in love.
Odds are that someone who confuses compassion with negative criticism has a history of being around people who pretended to care. Maybe they had a father who enjoyed beating them while saying, "I'm doing this for your good." Perhaps they had manipulative spouses who oozed fake compassion. If you fight with them, it convinces them that they were right: You really didn't care about them -- you just wanted to put them down. Walking away can surprise them. In some cases, it can wake them up and bring them to their senses if you opt to walk away. They say, "I wonder why he gave up so easily? What did he want from me by criticizing me?" It can dawn on them finally that you didn't want anything from them -- so you left them to do whatever they wanted. Then they may finally wonder if you had true compassion? Is such a thing really possible?

Yes, and that is why I do favor it. Only I think taking the approach I usually take now is even more effective. Both are manifestations of compassion, with the later being even more aggressive.

Enjoyed your post.
 

Giuliano

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Thanks for sharing. I used to take this approach, but something changed awhile back. I noticed I was starting to be more persistent, and push through more. I'm finding that if I am kind enough with my words, it has a way of calming them down. That's not to say it is some kind of debating trick. I tend to despise that sort of a thing. I believe it to be the Spirit of God in me simply becoming stronger than the spirit in others, and overcoming evil with good. I find that in many cases it leaves a man running from you. The Spirit will crawl up into their mind and heart, and suddenly the conversation is getting more personal than they had planned.

Again, it's not a trick. It's simply what the Spirit has me doing more now, and it is amazing how the Spirit of God can disarm people when what you say and are led to say is spoken in love.


Yes, and that is why I do favor it. Only I think taking the approach I usually take now is even more effective. Both are manifestations of compassion, with the later being even more aggressive.

Enjoyed your post.
As Solomon said a soft word turns away anger. Very often if people get angry when you're trying to hold a reasonable conversation, they calm down if you don't respond with anger back. Very often they like you -- they don't really want to be angry with you. They think they need to attack so they get angry; but if you stay calm, they realize they don't need to be angry.

I think that by itself is an accomplishment since I see the "anger" as a facade, not real -- it's something they put up when they think someone is attacking them. Remove that false face and you are helping bring the "real person" out -- the person who is in the image and likeness of God. You're right. It's not a trick. You are removing darkness from them and bringing them closer to what God wants them to be.

I had someone get angry with me last year. I had no idea why. I said, "What's going on? Tell me what's wrong." He calmed down. It turned out someone told him a lie about me, said I said something about him. I said I had no idea what he was talking about. I hadn't said that. He said, "You know, that didn't sound like something you'd say." We wound up laughing about it.
 
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