The Presence of the Holy Spirit
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Jesus is not a ghost.
Jesus is set apart - holy. So is Yahweh Almighty Creator. So are those who are born again - set apart (holy) by God for Himself.
101G
Well-Known Member
Ghost is an old English term for "Spirit". and "Yahweh" is not the creator name.
all who are born again are holy. and all things are for HIM, Colossians 1:16.
PICJAG.
They do not necessarily remain holy. They do not necessarily remain set apart to God, obeying Him, set apart from the world and its ways. Some go back and become worse than they were to start with.
101G
Well-Known Member
I did not even attempt to state what you said.
I won't get close to your mouth, ever, unless many miracles take place by God's Direction and Doing.
101G
Well-Known Member
@charity,
The Presence of the Holy Spirit is known by the Fruit we bare, John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman."
John 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."
John 15:3 "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you."
John 15:4 "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me."
John 15:5 "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."
abideth in me? John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."
PICJAG.
The Presence of the Holy Spirit is known by the Fruit we bare, John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman."
John 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."
John 15:3 "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you."
John 15:4 "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me."
John 15:5 "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."
abideth in me? John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."
PICJAG.
Hi Charity, I must admit that the clear-cut Scriptures that affirm that one cannot believe without being endowed with the Holy Spirit (either be or after), has often perplexed me. In that, after my conversion, outside of whatever wisdom that one gains once they understand the Gospel, I did not dramatically receive some divine enlightenment, or necessarily experience an increase in fortitude and resolution to confidently proclaim the Word of God. Outside of the strength and wisdom that invariably is gained from reading the Bible, I have yet to witness the experience of the Holy Spirit within me.
But, here's the thing, who can? That is, where is the man or woman with such a supernatural wisdom or power? Definitely not at any Church or Christian forum that I've been on.
Plus, does not the following verses of Scripture imply, in one way or another, that one can acquire saving faith without being empowered with the Spirit?
Acts 19:1-6
19:1. It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2. He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3. And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4. Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, he Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 18:24-28
18:24. Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures. 25. This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John; 26. and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. 27. And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace, 28. for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.
Acts 8:14-17
8:14. Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15. who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:13-19
8:13. Even Simon himself believed; and after being baptized, he continued on with Philip, and as he observed signs and great miracles taking place, he was constantly amazed.
...
8:18. Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, 19. saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
They are not false teachers. They are not teachers full stop. Spouting your opinion doesn't make you a teacher.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Acts 8:14-17
8:14. Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, 15. who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16. For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17. Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
it is not wise to make pronouncements based on one's own experience. "Because you haven't done this, seen this, or experienced this then it cannot happen."
I was not aware that God operates by rote as in your turn today and your turn tomorrow. The Spirit is given severally as HE WILLS. You cannot tell God what he will and will not do and if he hasn't dealt with you a particular way, then no one else has been treated differently.
But I added that I haven't seen it elsewhere either, not to mention the Scriptures that I provided. But, again, I believe that the most indicting testimony are those who so boldly claim to have it, and yet invariably, seem to entirely lack its efficacy.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Again not a wise move to base your walk on those who have or have not. We are told to search the scriptures and my modus operandi is to do just that if I hear or see something foreign or new to me. That way I do not get phased by what others do or not do.
I feel very blessed because God has exposed me to all sorts of things and experiences. Some good and some bad but I am of the opinion that you don't know what the good is until you know what the bad is. In my early days, I was Baptist through and through because that is all I knew. When I got exposed to other streams, I was able to put the Baptist into perspective and see there was life outside the square.
This was all good because I ended up in a church that experienced revival for 30 years. If I had stayed sola Baptist I would have missed all that.
Yes, but I thought the point was can one be saved, without the gift of the Holy Spirit somehow acting upon the convert either before or after their conversion, or both. I was saying that, judging by my own experience, and every other Christian that I have ever known, that yes, one can be saved without the divine endowment of the supernatural Holy Spirit. This is why I resorted to empirical evidence.
I do believe that God bestows such a gift upon a believer, depending on their humility and faith. And, even then, it's not a permanent bestowal. But, again, I have yet to witness in this world the way it was demonstrated throughout the Bible.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Judging by my own experience; empirical evidence; depending on their humility and faith: I have yet to witness; ALL subjective experience of one's own experience. Again I say...what does the scripture teach? That is your yardstick and everything has to line up with that.
Acts 2. Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins and you SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Not maybe or perhaps or if you are good enough. NO repent/baptism/Holy Spirit.
Funny thing
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
no repentance no baptsism yet they received the Holy Spirit, see what happens when you put God in a box.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
As I keep saying over and over and over again, you do NOT make a doctrine out of one verse or one event. That was hammered into me at bible college and I am so glad they did because it has prevented me from saying "This verse says this so there you are."
Until you have imbibed every verse on a subject you do not have a doctrine. All you have is a proof text which you can make say whatever you want.
Yes and hats why so few know Christ, bible college is not even close to anything He can teach you, but God needs empty vessels and so few are willing.
...but, in essence, I have answered as to what do the Scriptures teach. What I've witnessed from others, does not align with the Biblical testimony of being endowed with the Spirit. For, as I told you, I am not a Cessationist, but I think that the gift is rare, and only for the humble and faithful.
Ok, so I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords, and King of Kings. He is the first-born of creation, and the first-born from the dead. There is no salvation outside of faith and submission to Jesus Christ.
First, am I saved, and two, do I have the Holy Spirit, as far as your exegesis of the Bible is concerned?
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Davy
Well-Known Member
Excellent presentation on the matter! Sorry if that makes others angry at me for saying it. The true signs of The Holy Spirit are the good works in Christ Jesus per one's calling. And it certainly is not... about falling down on the floor and barking like a wild animal (warning against some of the things going on in some so-called Churches which are actually Beth-avens).
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