Salvation Through Baptism ???

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Behold

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Is it even talking about "water" baptism? Why could it not be speaking of spiritual baptism?

Some people have water on the brain! They add water where the word "baptizo" does not have any water in it!

The Catholic bible, that was ruined by Jerome, teaches that we are "born again of/by water".
That is why they believe the water is their "redeemer" and that is washes away their sin.
Its their Catholic Bible that is the poison.

Douay Rheims = version

This is the verse in their corrupted "bible" that has caused so many of them to be obsessed with water, including their Pope.

" unless a man be born again of water"

did you notice 'BORN AGAIN = OF WATER.

See that?
That verse has caused the Catholic Church to teach a LIE concerning how to be born again.
 
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mailmandan

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Everyone prior to Jesus' Death, Burial and bodily Resurrection, entered into the Kingdom through Old Testament dispensation, including the thief on the cross because although Jesus was close to death, he was not yet dead...

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

God Bless!
In an attempt to “get around” the thief on the cross being saved through faith “apart from water baptism,” some will make your same argument above while others will argue that we don’t know for sure if the thief on the cross was already previously baptized.

So before the death of Jesus in Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3, we read - "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.” We read that similar message in Acts 2:38 after the death of Jesus.

Now was this baptism for “in order to obtain” remission of sins or was it for “in regards to/on the basis of” remission of sins?” In Matthew 3:11, John said "I baptize you with water FOR repentance.." Is this baptism FOR "in order to obtain" repentance or FOR "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance?

You can’t have it both ways.
 
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Candidus

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After we are born again, (SAVED), we are to be water baptized.
This is a public recognition/witness/proclamation of the FACT that we have already been saved and are following Christ.
If you are not water baptized, then you should be... but, with the knowledge that its BECAUSE you are already saved you are doing it..

I was WB 11 yrs after i was born again.
Ironically, many people have been water baptized and are still waiting to be born again!

You are correct! Just because water does not save you, is no reason to defy the command to do so!
 
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user

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Thank you for proving that one does not have to be baptized in order to be saved in the New Covenant! John 19:32 says that the other two criminals on the cross had their legs broken to expedite their deaths... and that when they came to Jesus, He was already dead, fulfilling the prophecy "Not a bone of Him shall be broken." Therefore, the irrefutable argument you made from Hebrews 9:16 proves that the Thief on the cross died under the New Testament!
It only takes one example of someone being saved without water baptism to prove that it is not essential to anyone's salvation!

Yes Jesus first had to die, but the New Testament plan of salvation did not come into effect until after the death, burial, resurrection.

Jesus ascending gave the command...

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Then, this picks up in the Book of Acts...

Acts 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:Acts
1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Whereby being assembled together...

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

This is the birth of the New Testament church, which continues to this day.

God Bless!
 

mailmandan

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Is it even talking about "water" baptism? Why could it not be speaking of spiritual baptism?

Some people have water on the brain! They add water where the word "baptizo" does not have any water in it!
Some would argue for Spirit baptism, yet regardless, either way, Mark 16:16 does not teach that whoever is not water baptized will not be saved.
 
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Candidus

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In an attempt to “get around” the thief on the cross being saved through faith “apart from water baptism,” some will make your same argument above while others will argue that we don’t know for sure if the thief on the cross was already previously baptized.

So before the death of Jesus in Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3, we read - "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.” We read that similar message in Acts 2:38 after the death of Jesus.

Now was this baptism for “in order to obtain” remission of sins or was it for “in regards to/on the basis of” remission of sins?” In Matthew 3:11, John said "I baptize you with water FOR repentance.." Is this baptism FOR "in order to obtain" repentance or FOR "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance?

You can’t have it both ways.

Just as English translation does not lock us into the idea that baptism is a prerequisite for salvation, the English does not assert or demand which of the meanings of "eis" we should choose in Acts 2:38. “On account of the remission of sins is the only Scripturally consistent translation to consider when the Greek is examined.

You are correct in pointing out that even in English, the word "for" is not as definite as people want to make it in this verse.

1. I phoned the Dentist for (in order to) some pain killers.

2. I phoned the Dentist for (in behalf of) my child who has a toothache.

3. I phoned the Dentist for (on account of) my toothache.

4. I phoned the Dentist for (with respect to) the bill that I got from my visit.
 
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user

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In an attempt to “get around” the thief on the cross being saved through faith “apart from water baptism,” some will make your same argument above while others will argue that we don’t know for sure if the thief on the cross was already previously baptized.

So before the death of Jesus in Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3, we read - "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.” We read that similar message in Acts 2:38 after the death of Jesus.

Now was this baptism for “in order to obtain” remission of sins or was it for “in regards to/on the basis of” remission of sins?” In Matthew 3:11, John said "I baptize you with water FOR repentance.." Is this baptism FOR "in order to obtain" repentance or FOR "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance?

You can’t have it both ways.


You do a pretty good hat dance. But that's all it is.

I pointed out that the thief was saved under O.T. dispensation. The word of God did not tell us if the thief was baptized. Feel free to do the gymnastics to prove weather he was or not.

God Bless!
 
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mailmandan

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You do a pretty good hat dance. But that's all it is.

I pointed out that the thief was saved under O.T. dispensation. The word of God did not tell us if the thief was baptized. Feel free to do the gymnastics to prove weather he was or not.

God Bless!
It’s not gymnastics and I prefer to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine instead of hanging my hat on a handful of pet verses taken out of context.
 

Marymog

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Show me one verse in the Bible that says, "whoever is not water baptized will be condemned." The Bible says whoever does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18)
Scripture says:

Acts 5:29: But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men".

John 14:15: “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

1 John 2:3: And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.

Luke 11:28: But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Jesus
final commandment before he ascended into heaven was "go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,..."

Peter said to "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Will we be condemned if we refuse to do what they said?
 
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GISMYS_7

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You could be baptized everyday of your life and die and go to hell.

How to be saved (born again) and join the family of God!! Romans: Chapter 10 verse 9-10-13
God says==That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in your heart that God hath raised him
from the dead, thou shalt be Saved. For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto Salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the
name of the Lord shall be Saved..........

----------

Here is an "example prayer" if you have never talked to God..........
Heavenly Father:.........
I come to you in prayer asking for the forgiveness of
my Sins. I confess with my mouth and believe with my
heart that Jesus is your Son, And that he died on the
Cross at Calvary that I might be forgiven and have
Eternal Life in the Kingdom of Heaven. Father, I believe
that Jesus rose from the dead and I ask you right now
to come in to my life and be my personal Lord and
Savior. I repent of my Sins and will Worship you all the
day's of my Life!. Because your word is truth, I confess
with my mouth that I am Born Again and Cleansed
by the Blood of Jesus! In Jesus Name, Amen
 

Marymog

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After we are born again, (SAVED), we are to be water baptized.
This is a public recognition/witness/proclamation of the FACT that we have already been saved and are following Christ.
If you are not water baptized, then you should be... but, with the knowledge that its BECAUSE you are already saved you are doing it..

I was WB 11 yrs after i was born again.
You feel comfortable ignoring these passages?
Acts 2:38---------baptize>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>remission of sins
1 Pet 3:21--------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
 

Candidus

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Some would argue for Spirit baptism, yet regardless, either way, Mark 16:16 does not teach that whoever is not water baptized will not be saved.

You are correct, the passage puts the "cause" of not being saved on a lack of belief, not a lack of water!

I have very little faith that the last 12 verses in Mark are Scripture. If the only "proof" one has it's foundation on a passage that most scholars question whether it is really Scripture, I would see a problem. Such specious passages should never be one's foundation, and at best, the last thing I would use in support.

To say that Mark 16:16 is used as proof that Baptism in water is essential to salvation, then I have several issues I cannot reconcile:

1). Verse 17-18 says that those that believed WILL (not maybe, not optionally) pick up serpents, and drink poison! Please don't tell me that the only REAL Christians are in Appalachian Churches that handle snakes! Yet, according to Mark 16: 17-18, they have a better Theology than the so-called "scholars" and all Christian history! THEY are the REAL BELIEVERS! THEY are the only one's that are saved!

2). Saving people with water takes the power of salvation out of the hands of God and puts it into the hands of a mediator, i.e. a preacher, or some other “man” as the administrator. A man beached alone on an island could not become saved according to this!

3). It reduces the efficacy of the blood of Christ to the physical element of water. (Those in the frozen north, or arid desert where there is barely enough water for survival, would be denied salvation because of lack of water). Surely, the Gospel of Jesus Christ reaches to every person anywhere on the globe! It is a universal Gospel, not one reduced to water!
 
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Candidus

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You do a pretty good hat dance. But that's all it is.

I pointed out that the thief was saved under O.T. dispensation. The word of God did not tell us if the thief was baptized. Feel free to do the gymnastics to prove weather he was or not.

God Bless!
Your weather forecast has already been proven wrong by Scripture itself! It required no gymnastics at all.... unlike your position requires!
 
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Candidus

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Yes Jesus first had to die, but the New Testament plan of salvation did not come into effect until after the death, burial, resurrection.

Jesus ascending gave the command...

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Then, this picks up in the Book of Acts...

Acts 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:Acts
1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Whereby being assembled together...

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

This is the birth of the New Testament church, which continues to this day.

God Bless!

A lot of writing just to try to avoid the facts! Jesus died BEFORE the Thief on the cross! That is a BIBLICAL FACT! Now you are trying to deny the very proof-text you used! Hebrews 9:16-17, "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."

Chasing red-herrings will not undo the facts!
 
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mailmandan

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Scripture says:

Acts 5:29: But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men".

John 14:15: “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

1 John 2:3: And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.

Luke 11:28: But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Jesus
final commandment before he ascended into heaven was "go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,..."

Peter said to "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Will we be condemned if we refuse to do what they said?
See post #178.

Salvation Through Baptism ???
 

mailmandan

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In post 178 it seems you are suggesting that it is necessary to obey Him and the Apostles to be saved?

If it is necessary to obey them then baptism is necessary!
You still don’t get it and continue to confuse acts of obedience “in order to become saved” with acts of obedience “after we have been saved.”

If you wish to trust in works for salvation, that is your choice, but count me out. I trust in Jesus Christ and Him alone by faith as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
 

Marymog

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The Catholic bible, that was ruined by Jerome, teaches that we are "born again of/by water".
That is why they believe the water is their "redeemer" and that is washes away their sin.
Its their Catholic Bible that is the poison.

Douay Rheims = version

This is the verse in their corrupted "bible" that has caused so many of them to be obsessed with water, including their Pope.

" unless a man be born again of water"

did you notice 'BORN AGAIN = OF WATER.

See that?
That verse has caused the Catholic Church to teach a LIE concerning how to be born again.
I guess if you throw out 200 years of Christian teaching BEFORE Jerome you would be right:

ST. JUSTIN MARTYR (inter A.D. 148-155)

Whoever is convinced and believes that what they are taught and told by us is the truth, and professes to be able to live accordingly, is instructed to pray and to beseech God in fasting for the remission of their former sins, while we pray and fast with them. Then they are led by us to a place where there is water; and there they are reborn in the same kind of rebirth in which we ourselves were reborn: In the name of God, the Lord and Father of all, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they receive the washing with water. For Christ said, "Unless you be reborn, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." ...The reason for doing this, we have learned from the Apostles. (The First Apology 61)


ST. THEOPHILUS OF ANTIOCH (c. A.D. 181)

Moreover, those things which were created from the waters were blessed by God, so that this might also be a sign that men would at a future time receive repentance and remission of sins through water and the bath of regeneration -- all who proceed to the truth and are born again and receive a blessing from God. (To Autolycus 2:16)


ST. IRENAEUS (c. A.D. 190)

"And [Naaman] dipped himself...seven times in the Jordan" [2 Kings 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: "Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Fragment 34)


TERTULLIAN (inter A.D. 200-206)

A treatise on our sacrament of water, by which the sins of our earlier blindness are washed away and we are released for eternal life will not be superfluous.....taking away death by the washing away of sins. The guilt being removed, the penalty, of course, is also removed.....Baptism is itself a corporal act by which we are plunged in water, while its effect is spiritual, in that we are freed from sins. (On Baptism 1:1; 5:6; 7:2)

...no one can attain salvation without Baptism, especially in view of the declaration of the Lord, who says: "Unless a man shall be born of water, he shall not have life." (On Baptism 12:1)


ST. CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (ante A.D. 202)

When we are baptized, we are enlightened. Being enlightened, we are adopted as sons. Adopted as sons, we are made perfect. Made perfect, we become immortal...."and sons all of the Most High" [Psalm 82:6]. This work is variously called grace, illumination, perfection, and washing. It is a washing by which we are cleansed of sins; a gift of grace by which the punishments due our sins are remitted; an illumination by which we behold that holy light of salvation -- that is, by which we see God clearly; and we call that perfection which leaves nothing lacking. Indeed, if a man know God, what more does he need? Certainly it were out of place to call that which is not complete a true gift of God's grace. Because God is perfect, the gifts He bestows are perfect. (The Instructor of Children 1:6:26:1)


RECOGNITIONS OF CLEMENT (c. A.D. 221)

But you will perhaps say, "What does the baptism of water contribute toward the worship of God?" In the first place, because that which has pleased God is fulfilled. In the second place, because when you are regenerated and born again of water and of God, the frailty of your former birth, which you have through men, is cut off, and so ...you shall be able to attain salvation; but otherwise it is impossible. For thus has the true Prophet [Jesus] testified to us with an oath: "Verily, I say to you, that unless a man is born again of water....he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Recognitions 6:9)


ORIGEN (post A.D. 244)

Formerly there was Baptism, in an obscure way....now, however, in full view, there is regeneration in water and in the Holy Spirit. Formerly, in an obscure way, there was manna for food; now, however, in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God as He Himself says: "My flesh is truly food, and My blood is truly drink" [John 6:55]. (Homilies on Numbers 7:2)

The Church received from the Apostles the tradition of giving Baptism even to infants. For the Apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of divine mysteries, knew that there is in everyone the innate stains of sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit. (Commentaries on Romans 5:9)


ST. CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE (c. 200 - 258 A.D.)

But afterwards, when the stain of my past life had been washed away by means of the water of re-birth, a light from above poured itself upon my chastened and now pure heart; afterwards through the Spirit which is breathed from heaven, a second birth made of me a new man... Thus it had to be acknowledged that what was of the earth and was born of the flesh and had lived submissive to sins, had now begun to be of God, inasmuch as the Holy Spirit was animating it. (To Donatus 4)

[When] they receive also the Baptism of the Church...then finally can they be fully sanctified and be the sons of God...since it is written, "Except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (Letters 71[72]:1)

[It] behooves those to be baptized...so that they are prepared, in the lawful and true and only Baptism of the holy Church, by divine regeneration, for the kingdom of God...because it is written, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (Letters 72[73]:21)



SEVENTH COUNCIL OF CARTHAGE (c. A.D. 256)

And in the gospel our Lord Jesus Christ spoke with his divine voice, saying, "Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." ...Unless therefore they receive saving Baptism in the Catholic Church, which is one, they cannot be saved, but will be condemned with the carnal in the judgment of the Lord Christ.
 

Marymog

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The Catholic bible, that was ruined by Jerome, teaches that we are "born again of/by water".
That is why they believe the water is their "redeemer" and that is washes away their sin.
Its their Catholic Bible that is the poison.

Douay Rheims = version

This is the verse in their corrupted "bible" that has caused so many of them to be obsessed with water, including their Pope.

" unless a man be born again of water"

did you notice 'BORN AGAIN = OF WATER.

See that?
That verse has caused the Catholic Church to teach a LIE concerning how to be born again.
Protestant historians disagree with you:

Philip Schaff --

"This ordinance [Baptism] was regarded in the ancient church as the sacrament of the new birth or regeneration, and as the solemn rite of initiation into the Christian Church, admitting to all her benefits and committing to all her obligations....Its effect consists in the forgiveness of sins and the communication of the Holy Spirit.

"Justin [Martyr] calls baptism 'the water-bath for the forgiveness of sins and regeneration,' and 'the bath of conversion and the knowledge of God.' "It is often called also illumination, spiritual circumcision, anointing, sealing, gift of grace, symbol of redemption, death of sins, etc. Tertullian describes its effect thus: 'When the soul comes to faith, and becomes transformed through regeneration by water and power from above, it discovers, after the veil of the old corruption is taken away, its whole light. It is received into the fellowship of the Holy Spirit; and the soul, which unites itself to the Holy Spirit, is followed by the body.' ...."From John 3:5 and Mark 16:16, Tertullian and other fathers argued the necessity of baptism to salvation....The effect of baptism...was thought to extend only to sins committed before receiving it. Hence the frequent postponement of the sacrament [Procrastinatio baptismi], which Tertullian very earnestly recommends...." (History of the Christian Church, volume 2, page 253ff)

"The views of the ante-Nicene fathers concerning baptism and baptismal regeneration were in this period more copiously embellished in rhetorical style by Basil the Great and the two Gregories, who wrote special treatises on this sacrament, and were more clearly and logically developed by Augustine. The patristic and Roman Catholic view on regeneration, however, differs considerably from the one which now prevails among most Protestant denominations, especially those of the more Puritanic type, in that it signifies not so such a subjective change of heart, which is more properly called conversion, but a change in the objective condition and relation of the sinner, namely, his translation from the kingdom of Satan into the kingdom of Christ....Some modern divines make a distinction between baptismal regeneration and moral regeneration, in order to reconcile the doctrine of the fathers with the fact that the evidences of a new life are wholly wanting in so many who are baptized. But we cannot enter here into a discussion of the difficulties of this doctrine, and must confine ourselves to a historical statement." [patristic quotes follow] "In the doctrine of baptism also we have a much better right to speak of a -consensus patrum-, than in the doctrine of the Holy Supper." (History of the Christian Church, volume 3, page 481ff, 492)

Paul Enns --

"Justin Martyr suggests Isaiah 1:16-20 refers to Christian baptism, apparently suggesting that this rite produces the new birth (1 Apol 61).....Very early in the Christian church, prominence was given to the rite of baptism so that many, in effect, taught baptismal regeneration. Justin Martyr taught that, to obtain the remission of sins, the name of the Father should be invoked over the one being baptized (1 Apol 61)...Although this concept was not as emphatic among the apostolic Fathers, it became increasingly so in the following centuries. Augustine, for instance, taught that original sin and sins committed before baptism were washed away through baptism. For that reason he advocated baptism for infants." (The Moody Handbook of Theology [1989], page 415, 427)

J.N.D. Kelly --

"From the beginning baptism was the universally accepted rite of admission to the Church; only 'those who have been baptized in the Lord's name' may partake of the eucharist [Didache 9:5]....As regards its significance, it was always held to convey the remission of sins....the theory that it mediated the Holy Spirit was fairly general....The Spirit is God Himself dwelling in the believer, and the resulting life is a re-creation...."

"Speculation about baptism in the third century revolves around its function, universally admitted hitherto, as the medium of the bestowal of the Spirit. Infant baptism was now common, and this fact, together with the rapid expansion of the Church's numbers, caused the administration of the sacrament to be increasingly delegated by bishops to presbyters....We observe a tendency to limit the effect of baptism itself to the remission of sins and regeneration, and to link the gift of the Spirit with these other rites [Chrismation, Confirmation, and the laying on of hands -- detailed analysis from the ante-Nicene Fathers on Baptism follows].....

"From these general considerations we turn to the particular sacraments. Cyril of Jerusalem provides a full, if not always coherent, account of the conception of baptism which commended itself to a fourth-century theologian in Palestine. The name he applies to the rite is 'baptism' or 'bath' [Greek provided along with references]. It is 'the bath of regeneration' in which we are washed both with water and with the Holy Spirit. Its effects can be summarized under three main heads. First, the baptized person receives the remission of sins, i.e. all sins committed prior to baptism. He passes from sin to righteousness, from filth to cleanliness; his restoration is total....Secondly, baptism conveys the positive blessing of sanctification, which Cyril describes as the illumination and deification of the believer's soul, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the putting on of the new man, spiritual rebirth and salvation, adoption as God's son by grace, union with Christ in His resurrection as in His suffering and death, the right to a heavenly inheritance....Thirdly, and closely connected with this, baptism impresses a seal [Greek provided] on the believer's soul. Just as the water cleanses the body, the Holy Spirit seals [Greek] the soul. This sealing takes place at the very moment of baptism....and as a result of it the baptized person enjoys the presence of the Holy Spirit....These ideas are fairly representative of Greek and Latin teaching about baptism in the fourth and fifth centuries." [detailed analysis from the post-Nicene Fathers on Baptism follows] (Early Christian Doctrines, page 193ff, 207ff, 428ff)

Jaroslav Pelikan --

"Although references to the doctrine of baptism are scattered throughout the Christian literature of the second and third centuries, only one extant treatise from the period is devoted exclusively to the subject, that of Tertullian. And the most succinct statement by Tertullian on the doctrine of baptism actually came, not in his treatise on baptism, but in his polemic against Marcion....Tertullian argued that none of the four basic gifts of baptism could be granted if that dualism [of Marcion] were maintained. The four gifts were: the remission of sins, deliverance from death, regeneration, and bestowal of the Holy Spirit...It is noteworthy that Tertullian, regardless of how much a Montanist he may have been at this point, was summarizing what the doctrine of the church was at his time -- as well as probably before his time and certainly since his time. Tertullian's enumeration of the gifts of baptism would be difficult to duplicate in so summary a form from other Christian writers, but those who did speak of baptism also spoke of one or more of these gifts. Baptism brought the remission of sins; the doctrine of baptism was in fact the occasion for many of the references to forgiveness of sins in the literature of these centuries [references to Cyprian, Hippolytus, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Justin Martyr, Hermas]."

"With deliverance from death came a new life and regeneration. The phrase 'washing of regeneration' in Titus 3:5 was synonymous with 'the baptism of regeneration.' [references to Methodius of Olympus, Tertullian, Cyprian, and Origen]."

"Tertullian's summary of these four gifts makes it clear 'that by the end of the second century, if not fifty years earlier, the doctrine of baptism (even without the aid of controversy to give it precision) was so fully developed that subsequent ages down to our own have found nothing significant to add to it' [citing Evans]." (The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine, volume 1: The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition 100-600, pages 163ff)

William Webster, a former Catholic turned Evangelical, in his 1995 book The Church of Rome at the Bar of History, freely admits the unanimous position of the Church Fathers as to what is called "baptismal regeneration" :

"The doctrine of baptism is one of the few teachings within Roman Catholicism for which it can be said that there is a universal consent of the Fathers....From the early days of the Church, baptism was universally perceived as the means of receiving four basic gifts: the remission of sins, deliverance from death, regeneration, and the bestowal of the Holy Spirit." (Webster, page 95-96)

Let us take a look at the writings of the earliest Christians on the Sacrament of Baptism, baptismal regeneration, and infant baptism. All the major Church Fathers are covered through the fifth century.
 

Marymog

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You still don’t get it and continue to confuse acts of obedience “in order to become saved” with acts of obedience “after we have been saved.”

If you wish to trust in works for salvation, that is your choice, but count me out. I trust in Jesus Christ and Him alone by faith as the ALL-sufficient means of my salvation. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
No, I get it. If we don't obey His commandments we won't be saved. Having faith is the first step to being saved. Being baptized and keeping His commandments and the teachings of the Apostles (works) are the other steps to being saved. I believe what Scripture says: Faith without works is dead. (James 2:17)

You believe that faith is sufficient. Scripture says otherwise.