Shroud of Turin: Absolute proof the man seen in it is Jesus Christ

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brian100

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They claim the Shroud was made in the 1300's but yet in 1500 all this Sacred Heart and Immaculate Heart was added by a fire 2 centuries later. Must of been the same God who made it.
 

GodsGrace

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They claim the Shroud was made in the 1300's but yet in 1500 all this Sacred Heart and Immaculate Heart was added by a fire 2 centuries later. Must of been the same God who made it.
Brian,,,
why are you so concerned with the Shroud?
What if it didn't exist..would you still believe in God?

Do you have a spiritual advisor you might be able to speak to?
You know, about why it's so important to you....
I love God and also Mary even if the Shroud is not real,,,but it most probably is.
But we love Jesus because He died for us and we love Mary because she's His mother
and she deserves our love and our honor.
Her heart was pierced, just like Simeon said in
Luke 2:25-35
25And there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him.
26And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
27And he came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to carry out for Him the custom of the Law,
28then he took Him into his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29“Now Lord, You are releasing Your bond-servant to depart in peace,
According to Your word;

30For my eyes have seen Your salvation,

31Which You have prepared in the presence of all peoples,

32A LIGHT OF REVELATION TO THE GENTILES,
And the glory of Your people Israel.”

33And His father and mother were amazed at the things which were being said about Him.
34And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, “Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed—
35and a sword will pierce even your own soul—to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.”
 

brian100

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Not believing is Jesus works is a big sin to him.


This Shroud is the only proof of Jesus and Mary. It proves God added to the Shroud in the 1500's.

And 600 years later I'm first to see it.
 

GodsGrace

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Not believing is Jesus works is a big sin to him.


This Shroud is the only proof of Jesus and Mary. It proves God added to the Shroud in the 1500's.

And 600 years later I'm first to see it.
There are other proofs of Jesus.
The resurrection should be enough for all of us.
This proves that Jesus is God.
It proves we should worship Him.

It's wonderful that you saw Mary and her heart in the image of the Shroud....
But speak to Jesus about your life and tell Him that it's up to the Holy Spirit to convince persons about the Shroud. It's not really your job,,,but it's good that you believe so much in Jesus and in Mary...but we worship only Jesus. Even your priest will tell you this. Even though we could consider Mary as our beloved Mother in Heaven.
 

brian100

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There are other proofs of Jesus.
The resurrection should be enough for all of us.
This proves that Jesus is God.
It proves we should worship Him.


I'm sorry but you can't prove Jesus or Mary with just bibles.. you need miracles to prove them. And you shut up the Kingdom of heaven to others by saying this is all fake, not to be trusted, fraud, or works by the devil.. So this message to Preachers isn't just for them... it applies to anyone who allign themselves against the work of God.

If I'm right, then God will let these people know that they are against him. If not, then you can continue to post messages here and say I'm a fool, a dupe, and blind people for believing it.
 
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GodsGrace

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I'm sorry but you can't prove Jesus or Mary with just bibles.. you need miracles to prove them. And you shut up the Kingdom of heaven to others by saying this is all fake, not to be trusted, fraud, or works by the devil.. So this message to Preachers isn't just for them... it applies to anyone who allign themselves against the work of God.
Jesus did do a lot of miracles.
There was a historian back then by the name of Josephus.
He wrote about Jesus. He stated that there was "a man" who went through Judea and Galilee
and performed many miracles.

The bible can prove Jesus because there were witnesses that saw Him.
The writers wrote about Him. I like what John says.

1 John 1:1-4
1What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life
2and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
3what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.

4These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.


Isn't that beautiful ?

Many millions of persons can believe in Jesus and Mary even without the Shroud.
We can believe they lived because we can trust the Apostles and know that they told us the truth....
just like John wrote and he loved Jesus a lot.
 

brian100

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Book do not prove miracles. It proves faith. But miracles prove your faith is right. Which is what I have done.

I think everyone denied this man in the Shroud was Jesus Christ.. so faith isn't really faith to God. When a man sees and hears truth he believes.

The Shroud is seeing.
The Bible is hearing.
 

GodsGrace

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Book do not prove miracles. It proves faith. But miracles prove your faith is right. Which is what I have done.

I think everyone denied this man in the Shroud was Jesus Christ.. so faith isn't really faith to God. When a man sees and hears truth he believes.

The Shroud is seeing.
The Bible is hearing.
Very good point.

But I don't think everyone denies the man in the Shroud is Jesus.
God forgives us for many mistakes that we make. Even those that do not believe the Shroud is real are forgiven by God.

Those that believe it is real have an extra blessing.

And with that I'll say good night.
 

brian100

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Did Jesus forgive the Pharasee after the Blind man was cured? They stood right there. What happens here is bible only people act as Pharasses using bible to say this is all fake and they prevent people from finding the True Church to make it. So they don't go in themselves nor will they allow others to find it.

You can see the Gate to Heaven now, and Its a narrow gate between Jesus and Mary. Those candles are the gate!

Matthew 7:13
English Standard Version
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.

Shroud101.jpg


So I just sing a song

 
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brian100

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John 18

Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.”
38Pilate said to him, “What is truth?”

Truth is the Shroud.

The seeing part.
 
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GodsGrace

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John 18

Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.”
38Pilate said to him, “What is truth?”

Truth is the Shroud.

The seeing part.
When Pilate said WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

JESUS was standing right next to him.
JESUS is the truth.

But Pilot did not see Jesus like we do.
 
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brian100

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Pilate recognized Truth in hearing is not truth.

Seeing and hearing is truth.

That's why in court video evidence is conclusive.
 

brian100

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Mary had an Immaculate Heart=unblemished=sinless. I found this info on July 11,2020 at this forum in real time. Proof that God is sending revelation to you.


That string of roses going across her heart! Is the Immaculate Heart of Mary!

God must know I'm in battle here and my foes all fall like apples. To rot away thinking how that could be there!
 
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kcnalp

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Mary can't save anyone from their sins. ONLY the Blood of Jesus can do it.

John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
 
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Tong2020

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So now, any "evidence", whether HISTORICAL, GEOGRAPHIC, ARTIFACTS, -- EVERYTHING is satanically altered? -- Really?

Then if this is LITERALLY TRUE, then burn your Bible because satan is deceiving you in those words.
Bobby Jo
The simple point is that what Satan and demons can do must not be left out of consideration in the investigation on the shroud.

Perhaps, most believers wants the shroud, between being genuine or fake, to be the actual grave clothes of Jesus, which then becomes some kind of evidence to the truth of the suffering and death, and even the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

You started with the belief that the shroud of Turin is "evidence". But should we not start with the belief that it is not until proven otherwise? A claim was made some several hundreds of years ago. For what purpose, I don't know. Do you know? And if not, then I think it should not really be much of a concern for the Christian. Those who are, in my view, only demonstrates what faith they have, who like the Jews at the earthly days of Jesus Christ, looks and demands for signs before they would believe. But faith is not like that.

For me, it was not a good idea that the shroud was put to the investigation by means of science for authenticity. The reason for that is clear as had now been evident. It only result to a divide among Christians.

Some would opine that the shroud, if established to be genuine, will bring many unbelievers to conversion as it presents hard evidence that points to the truth about Jesus Christ's death and resurrection. Well, that is a positive opinion and of good intention. But, if a hard evidence is all that many unbelievers need to be converted, would God not have given more and better hard evidence? We can think of a lot of different ways that God could have done and of a lot of different hard evidence that God could have given to convert man. And would God not know better? But realize what? God did not do that in the past, so why would we think that He would do it today? The best evidence is not the shroud, but Jesus Himself, right? But even while Jesus could show Himself to each man that each might believe like Thomas, Jesus did not do that. Why?

I think for one, we can consider what Jesus said to Thomas, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.Another is that, salvation is afterall through faith. Now scriptures says of faith in Hebrews 11:1, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". Clearly, it speaks of faith that is defined by the unseen.

Tong
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Tong2020

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This is soooo interesting.
You believe that anyone that has an erroneous belief about the gospel he must repent.

First, if a person is reading the gospels,. he has ALREADY repented.
This is why he's reading the gospel.
It's also possible that an unsaved person is reading the bible to find out about God,,,but it's usually the other way around.

AND....if I have a doctrine wrong, I'm lost?

That, my friend, would mean that we are all lost since no one believes 100% what any other person believes.

Must we be baptized to be saved?
Is OSAS correct?

Do we all agree on the above?
So, according to you, many born again believers are going to hell because they got a teaching wrong?

This is WORSE than the CC.
Did God go on vacation and put YOU in charge?

Please rethink your position or Jesus' death was totally uneffectual.
I think you entirely missed the point. Anyone who have an erroneous belief about the gospel must repent, be it because of the shroud or something else. When one makes out of anything, like of the shroud, an erroneous teaching or belief, so that it changes, adds or subtracts to the gospel that the apostles preached, he would be guilty of preaching a different gospel. And Paul said "let him be accursed". So, must he repent or not?

You said "First, if a person is reading the gospels,. he has ALREADY repented." Not necessarily Ma'am. There are many unbelievers who reads the gospel for various reasons. You know this, and is somehow implied in your statement, "It's also possible that an unsaved person is reading the bible to find out about God,...."

You said, "AND....if I have a doctrine wrong, I'm lost?" Never said that nor is saying that.

OSAS have nothing to do with the shroud of Turin, nor does baptism with water. So, I would be refraining to address them here, so as not to have multiple topics discussed under this thread and stick to the topic, which is about the shroud.

Tong
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Tong2020

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What about Mary's Immaculate heart being on the Shroud? Immaculate means clean and pure free of Sin. And the Protestant stick a sword in it every day.
What about it? Not because you claim to see it, that it's what is really there. You don't get to force that on all.

You speak of an immaculate heart. And that Mary's heart is immaculate. How'd you know about Mary's heart being immaculate? Unless it is God who said it, no man could say with absoluteness about the heart of any one.

Regarding the Protestant sticking a sword in Mary's heart everyday, I don't know where you got that false teaching.

Tong
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Bobby Jo

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The simple point is that what Satan and demons can do must not be left out of consideration in the investigation on ...

... EVERYTHING in the WORLD, -- including the BIBLE. So QUESTION EVERYTHING, CHALLENGE EVERYTHING, and DOUBT EVERYTHING, because GOD is impotent to exceed the desired interference from satan, so all TRUTH falls on our shoulders to do what GOD isn't doing.

SCOFFING is GOOD.
Bobby Jo
 

Tong2020

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Tong,,,sorry for delay.

Must the video answer ALL questions in order for it to be real?
Do we know EVERYTHING about Mars?
Does this mean it's not real?
The matter about Mars is not analogous. The shroud is a real shroud as, no doubt. But that is not the issue. Rather, the issue is if the shroud was the actual grave clothes of Jesus Christ. Now, my questions are very relevant. In fact, they are one of the questions that must first be asked because scriptures talks about them.

Anyway, yes, I'll be happy to answer your questions.

3. What happened to the Myrrh. Do we know it was hundreds of pounds?
Where is this stated? The woman who took care of Jesus' body were able to carry such a
weight?
John 19:39 And Nicodemus, who at first came to Jesus by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds. 40 Then they took the body of Jesus, and bound it in strips of linen with the spices, as the custom of the Jews is to bury.

God created the universe. He could certainly remove myrrh from the top of His body when He resurrected. I should think that the resurrection would cause one not to worry too much about what happened to the myrrh!
With that kind of reasoning, we should not think that the resurrection would cause one not to worry too much about grave cloths.

4. The video touched on this and, frankly, I don't remember what the speaker stated.
I believe that the face cloth was found neatly folded near Jesus' position on the stone slab.
Here is how John recounts the finding of the cloths:

John 20:1-7
1Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.
2So she ran and came to Simon Peter and to the other disciple whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.”
3So Peter and the other disciple went forth, and they were going to the tomb.
4The two were running together; and the other disciple ran ahead faster than Peter and came to the tomb first;
5and stooping and looking in, he saw the linen wrappings lying there; but he did not go in.
6And so Simon Peter also came, following him, and entered the tomb; and he saw the linen wrappings lying there,
7and the face-cloth which had been on His head, not lying with the linen wrappings, but rolled up in a place by itself.


As you can see from John's account, he got to the tomb first (it is believed that Peter and John went to the tomb and John got there first because he was younger and ran quicker).

Then came Peter and entered the tomb.

And he saw the linen wrappings lying there.

And the FACE CLOTH which HAD BEEN on Jesus' head, NOT LYING WITH THE WRAPPINGS, but rolled up IN A PLACE BY ITSELF.

That would be the explanation. Told by John who was a witness.
Here's the thing about that we read in scriptures concerning the shroud. Notice what we have in John 20: 5-7, speaking of a head or face cloth, the "soudarion" and linen cloths or wrappings, the "othonion". Notice, we have a "soudarion" in the singular as to mean 1 piece. I think in other videos they somehow came up with an explanation to that. But here is where the issue lies, in the "othonion". In John 20: 5-7, the "othonion" is in the plural as to mean at least two pieces, which we also see in John 19:40 to be in the plural. And yet, the shroud of Turin, the supposed "othonion", is just 1 piece. What can you say about that?

Besides the custom of wrapping at that time, could be known in scriptures, as in the wrapping of the dead Lazarus, which used a head cloth and of linen strips. What can you say about that?

Tong
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