What is "Amazing Grace"?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't see you being called to do that. I think you are learning doctrine...very slowly...because a humble person learns faster than one who thinks he's been specially appointed by God before he fully understands what the bible is testifying of.

And of course, since you aren't the one who called me to do that, I don't need your approval.

I find that in reading many of your posts, you have an appearance of righteousness in what you post; however there is a hint of salvation by works in all of what you say to people. Therefore, I believe that you are the one who doesn't fully understand what the Bible is testifying of. And I believe that you are also coming against me now because I previously mentioned that some of what you say is slightly off-base.

Vs 10 says, (paraphrase)...... the one who entered into the REST, has stopped working.....

vs 11 says, to labor to enter into the rest....... and to fail to do this "labor" is = "unbelief".

So, how do you rest, yet labor, and the labor if failed..... is unbelief?

Its found in the idea, the context of the verse which is to understand the WORK that is the LABOR.

Most self savors, read this verse as...>>"i get to heaven by enduring to the end, (labor) and by keeping commandments, etc".
This means they are trying to do THEIR WORK...to get into Heaven. THEIR LABOR.
But this fails, because the verse defines the actual failure of the "labor" as UNBELIEF.

So, that is easily understood if you know what the verse is that is the missing link that allows you to understand why its a certain TYPE of Labor....that is not a person's self effort, that achieves= the "REST" from labor..

So, what work do we do, that is BELIEF based, that attains the REST, that is eternal life.?

Its this.....

We are to do the work or LABOR that GOD requires to achieve the "REST", as the end result. = SALVATION.

Its This verse..

"The WORK OF GOD< is that YOU BELIEVE (labor) on the ONE WHOM HE SENT".


So, there you see the WORK or the Labor, that GOD is talking about, which it to BELIEVE ON JESUS.

That is the (Spiritual) LABOR that Hebrews 4:11 is talking about that achieves the "REST", (Born Again). (Salvation).

The labour that we labour in is to be certain that no one in the body of Christ falls short of entering into His rest. In this, those of us who "labour in the word and doctrine" seek to work towards bringing sound doctrine into the fray so that believers will not bedeceived by the devil and so that they might find salvation in the grace of Christ.

We RECEIVE IT.....we don't do it. JESUS DID IT.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

This obedience is, on the one hand, Christ's obedience to the Father in succeeding to go to the Cross. Because He was obedient in this, our sins are forgiven through His shed blood.

But there is another sense in which the obedience of one makes us righteous. And that is this:

Gal 2:20, I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Christ is obedient in us as we walk with Him by faith. And this translates into a walk that is free and victorious over sin.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,249
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Christ is obedient in us as we walk with Him by faith. And this translates into a walk that is free and victorious over sin.

But it has not yet translated to you.

And you've been saved a great many years, and on this forum you've committed iniquity against me, and you've told me that you have "indwelling sin" issues.
So, you write as a person who wants to be perceived as deeply theological, and you just wrote that Christ's obedience is your victory over sin, yet you are still sinning, and repenting your entire Christianity, including sinning recently on this forum.
See yourself yet?
Ok, give us your excuses and your damage control, as i know you'll try it.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But it has not yet translated to you.

And you've been saved a great many years, and on this forum you've committed iniquity against me, and you've told me that you have "indwelling sin" issues.
So, you write as a person who wants to be perceived as deeply theological, and you just wrote that Christ's obedience is your victory over sin, yet you are still sinning, and repenting your entire Christianity, including sinning recently on this forum.
See yourself yet?
Ok, give us your excuses and your damage control, as i know you'll try it.
Yet you claim that you are without sin...which is in denial of many verses of holy scripture.

I did sin even last night; and I confessed it, and am forgiven; for 1 John 1:9 is a faithful promise of holy scripture.

The reality is that as long as we abide in Christ we do not sin; but when we fail to abide we can indeed sin; for sin indwells us all.

And for you to say that you have no sin puts you on the level of the Pharisees that Jesus spoke of in His parable of Luke 18:9-14.

You would be justified if you came before the Lord and said, "I acknowledge my transgressions; and my sin is ever before me. God be merciful to me a sinner." (Psalms 51:3, Luke 18:13-14).

But instead you pray thus within yourself: God I thank thee that I am not like other men...I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess, and I am not like @jusybyfaith over here who claims to have indwelling sin.

And I would say to you, that because you deny indwelling sin, you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you.

But those who are of the world will listen to you according to 1 John 4:5; because people in their pride do not want to believe what the Lord says about them; that they are sinners in need of a Saviour.

Yet everyone knows deep down that this is what they are; because the Holy Ghost does not fail to testify to them of this fact.

You even know that you are a sinner; even though you are in denial of the truth. You know deep down that this is what you are. But because you do not want to need to be forgiven you deny the sin nature and therefore you will not be forgiven; because in order to be forgiven of your sin you must confess your sin (1 John 1:9).
 

Renniks

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2020
4,308
1,392
113
56
Pennsylvania
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What is "Amazing Grace"?

Why did this person write this incredible song?

Its because they completely understood: The Cross.

Its like this...

God completed the entire process of Salvation, for each of the born again.... by doing it Himself.
= God's Grace.

"God who began salvation in the born again, will HIMSELF be Faithful to Complete it".

What is that?
That is God starting Salvation on the Cross by Blood and Death, and then giving it to us as the "gift of Righteousness", when we BELIEVE.
"Faith is counted as Salvation, (Righteousness), as to be Righteous= is to be saved.

But it gets BETTER.
Its GETS AMAZING..

Christ then completes our FAITH....for us also.
Even this part, that we gave God, that He accepted, is finished by God.

"Jesus is the Author and FINISHER of "our" Faith". Hebrews 12:2
He does it, Himself.

Salvation is ALL OF GOD......from the Cross , to the giving of Righteousness, and finally Jesus even confirms and "authors" and "finishes" our FAITH.

THAT IS =AMAZING GRACE.
That is God doing it all, and we RECEIVE IT ALL, as a "GIFT".
"The GIfT of Salvation".
If we have to believe to become saved, we have to continue to believe to remain saved. This doesn't negate amazing grace. But a gift like grace has to be accepted over and over again in our lives. It's not a one time and done deal. We can start to refuse his grace and move away from him if we quit seek him altogether.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,249
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
You would be justified if you came before the Lord and said,

I was justified before my GOD, when God accepted my Faith and through the Blood of Jesus, "justified me by my FAITH".. "justification by faith".
This is ETERNAL.... redemption.
This is why im born again.

You repented of sinning last night, because you have faith that if you do that, God will Keep you, and if you don't God will get rid of you.
So, your repenting, is your savior, as this is what you are TRUSTING to get you into heaven.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,249
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
If we have to believe to become saved, we have to continue to believe to remain saved.

No.

You continue to be saved because GOD saved you by accepting your FAITH, one time. = "justification by faith". "without works"
Once God accepted it, you are BORN AGAIN.
Believing didnt save you....but rather GOD ACCEPTED YOUR "believing" to SAVE YOU.
God is the Savior.
You are trying to stay saved by BELIEVING.....so, Believing to you, is your Savior.
It is not.
Do not put your Faith in Faith.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,249
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
I did sin even last night; and I confessed it, and am forgiven;.


You were forgiven for your sin 2000 Yrs ago on The Cross.
Once you understand this, if you ever are able, you will begin to see the Grace of God in Truth.
From THAT, you can come to my Threads and they will take you all the way to Victory over Sin.
But not until you learn how to Believe Right.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You were forgiven for your sin 2000 Yrs ago on The Cross.
Once you understand this, if you ever are able, you will begin to see the Grace of God in Truth.
From THAT, you can come to my Threads and they will take you all the way to Victory over Sin.
But not until you learn how to Believe Right.
Do you deny what it says in 1 John 1:9? That we are forgiven of our sins as a direct reult of confessing them?

What is your interpretation of the verse in question?

Do you accept it literally or do you put some kind of spin on it so that it does not mean what it says?

Here it is:

1Jo 1:9, If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Expound, please.

Because you said that I do not really understand what it means.

I tend to take verses like this literally because of what the scripture says here:

2Co 3:12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You repented of sinning last night, because you have faith that if you do that, God will Keep you, and if you don't God will get rid of you.
Actually, I know that my position stands firm in Christ whether I confess to Him or not.

But my relationship / fellowship / connectedness to Christ is in jeopardy if I have unconfessed sin in my life.

That's why we need the Holy Spirit.

When we mess up, He is able to pinpoint our sin to us so that we can confess it and put it under the blood.

Because in context, confessing our sins is what we do to stay walking in the light.
 

Mike Waters

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2020
317
526
93
89
Holt
slideshowart2.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
@Behold
What an amazing revelation....barely one day old and 50 posts already!
Flesh and blood did not reveal it to you , but Christ's Father who is in heaven.
At last, after 2000 or so years, Christ can now begin building his Church as per Matthew 16:18.
 

marksman

My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Feb 27, 2008
5,578
2,446
113
82
Melbourne Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The hymn Amazing Grace seems to be rooted in - for example - Ephesians' portrayal of God's wondrous grace.
The song written by John Newton, a former slave trader and Anglican minister was written to express his own experience.
 

Renniks

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2020
4,308
1,392
113
56
Pennsylvania
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No.

You continue to be saved because GOD saved you by accepting your FAITH, one time. = "justification by faith". "without works"
Once God accepted it, you are BORN AGAIN.
Believing didnt save you....but rather GOD ACCEPTED YOUR "believing" to SAVE YOU.
God is the Savior.
You are trying to stay saved by BELIEVING.....so, Believing to you, is your Savior.
It is not.
Do not put your Faith in Faith.
So if I no longer believe, I'm still saved?
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,249
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
So if I no longer believe, I'm still saved?

For as Long as God lives.

"continuing to believe" is not why a person is Born again.
Rather, is...>"justification by FAITH"< that God accepted ONCE, when you first trusted in CHRIST, that is proven by you being Born again.
You can't undo this because you didn't cause it.
Its GOD who accepted you, ONCE, and forever, = born again.

See, you think that you keep yourself saved..... that this is up to you.
Listen, you can no more keep yourself saved, then you could save yourself to begin with...
Salvation is started and completed ON THE CROSS< and given as a GIFT that is ETERNAL.
Jesus who saved you, will keep you saved.
 

Renniks

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2020
4,308
1,392
113
56
Pennsylvania
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
For as Long as God lives.

"continuing to believe" is not why a person is Born again.
Rather, is...>"justification by FAITH"< that God accepted ONCE, when you first trusted in CHRIST, that is proven by you being Born again.
You can't undo this because you didn't cause it.
Its GOD who accepted you, ONCE, and forever, = born again.

See, you think that you keep yourself saved..... that this is up to you.
Listen, you can no more keep yourself saved, then you could save yourself to begin with...
Salvation is started and completed ON THE CROSS< and given as a GIFT that is ETERNAL.
Jesus who saved you, will keep you saved.
Show me a verse that says unbelievers are ever known as God's children.
The promises about eternal life are for believers.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,249
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Show me a verse that says unbelievers are ever known as God's children.
The promises about eternal life are for believers.

Well a few things..
We are told, to "desire the sincere milk of the word"..
This is regarding a new Christian, and babies need "milk".
we are told ... "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby"". 1st Peter 2:2
And we can't be a babe in Christ, unless we are God's children.

and.. 1st John 3:1. ""
See what an incredible quality of love the Father has shown to us, that we would [be permitted to] be named and called and counted the children of God""

and...

1 John 3:10
""""By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.""
 

Renniks

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2020
4,308
1,392
113
56
Pennsylvania
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well a few things..
We are told, to "desire the sincere milk of the word"..
This is regarding a new Christian, and babies need "milk".
we are told ... "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby"". 1st Peter 2:2
And we can't be a babe in Christ, unless we are God's children.

and.. 1st John 3:1. ""
See what an incredible quality of love the Father has shown to us, that we would [be permitted to] be named and called and counted the children of God""

and...

1 John 3:10
""""By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.""
Those just confirm what I said. Continued salvation isn't automatic. We have to continue to desire God in our lives.
 

justbyfaith

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2018
21,740
4,114
113
51
San Pedro
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
1Pe 1:5, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1Jo 5:18, We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
20,915
3,368
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Those just confirm what I said. Continued salvation isn't automatic. We have to continue to desire God in our lives.
Correct.

God's "amazing grace" requires our cooperation with that grace.
It doesn't just fall from the sky without our response.
1Pe 1:5, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1Jo 5:18, We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
And this is the danger of cherry-picking the Scriptures instead of reading them in their proper CONTEXT.

For example - you plucked 1 Pet. 1:5 out of context.
Here it is in its FULL context:
1 Pet. 1:2-9
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are RECEIVING the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

This is basically saying that those who ENDURE through the trials of faith will be saved. Note the word "RECEIVING" - not "RECEIVED".
Peter uses the same analogy of God as "Refiner" that Paul does in 1 Cor. 3. because that is how He is described throughout the OT (Mal. 3:3, Jer. 6:27-30, Ezek. 22:18, Psalm 119:119, Psalm 37:20, Zech. 13:9, Isa 48:10).

We are "kept" by the power of God through FAITH - but faith requires our cooperation - especially during times of trial.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marymog and Renniks