Not according to (Mark 16:16).
Believe + Baptism = Saved (Mar 16:16)
1. Believe
2. Baptism
3. Saved
I do not know of anyone who teaches water washes away sins.
Who teaches that?
Salvation Through Baptism ???
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Not according to (Mark 16:16).
Believe + Baptism = Saved (Mar 16:16)
1. Believe
2. Baptism
3. Saved
I do not know of anyone who teaches water washes away sins.
Who teaches that?
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Do you define "Spirit baptism" as merely receiving "spiritual gifts" (1 Corinthians 12) in addition to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit? (Acts 10:43-47) That might explain your misunderstanding.
*There is only ONE baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is SPIRIT baptism, not water baptism.
Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
What is your point about Acts 8:38-39 being a recorded example of an "individual" being baptized in water? There are many people in scripture who have received water baptism, but it still does not prove that water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation/we are saved by water baptism. Have you read everything in my multiple posts that I shared with you or are you just glossing over what I shared with you?
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Now go back and read post #402. You are building your doctrine on one half of one verse here.
What about Mark 16:16(b)? Who is said to be condemned? Those who are not baptized or those who do not believe?
What happened to baptism in John 3:15,16,18, 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26?
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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A.T. Robertson the Baptist?
If memory serves me correctly the Baptist Faith and Message (a creed book) says that water baptism once was the door into the Church and afforded one all the blessings of Christ but now it has changed.
Question - Who changed it?
Question - Did they have the authority to change Gods Holy Word?
(Deut.4:2) (Rev.22:18,19) (1Cor.4:6)
All you gotta do is show me one recorded example of how AN INDIVIDUAL is Spirit baptized in the scriptures.
I got the name of Simon who was baptized in water for the remission of sins (Acts 8)
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Straw man argument. I see that you continue to ignore my questions and the heart of my posts and are only interested in promoting your biased agenda.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Simon was a false conversion, as I already explained in post #424 (if you even bothered to read it). Why is it important that it’s an “individual” and not a group of individuals? Multiple Gentiles were baptized with the Holy Spirit in (Acts 10:43-47; 11:16-18)
Subject to verification of course, but looking right as posted, yes immersion in Jesus' Name today is still a cause of being excommunicated, hated, punished, beaten, and mocked
by those
religious authorities who changed it
who did not have authority to do so
and who are not abiding today in Jesus nor is His Word found in nor from them.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
What was Noah saved from? Noah was saved from the water. Saved his and his families lives.
What was Naaman saved from? Saved from Leprosy.
What were the Ephesians saved from? Saved from Satan.
No salvation in the Old Testament.
Rather lots and lots of salvation in the Torah, Prophets, Psalms, Tanakh, and New Testament, as written.
Or,
how are UYOU defining "salvation" different from the Bible ?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
You so funny! I define salvation as Christ. No salvation before him. God did not threaten the Israelites with hell. He did not offer them heaven as a reward. And the Jews do not believe in a devil. God nor the prophets spoke to anyone about Satan, nor did they warn them about him, nor did the Old Testament show him tempting anyone. The Israelites except for one or two, when they died went to one place, they gathered with their fathers in Sheol. The religion of the Israelites...
Judaism is not part of Christianity. The Mosaic Law does not pertain to Christianity!
http://www.menorah.org/yeshname.html
"In Psalm 91:14-16 God says, Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high [raise him above circumstances], because he hath known my name. He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him and honor him. With long life [eternal life] will I satisfy him, and show him my [YESHUA (Jesus)] salvation. Of course. That promise is realized in Revelation 22:3, 4: And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it: and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see HIS face.
In Isaiah 12:2, 3 we have something wonderful. Here SALVATION is mentioned three times. The reader will be much blessed by reading these glorious verses in his Bible, but let me give them as they actually read in the original Hebrew with Jesus as the embodiment and personification of the word SALVATION: Behold, might (or, God the mighty One) is my YESHUA (Jesus-in His pre-incarnation and eternal existence); I will trust and not be afraid:, for JAH-JAHOVAH is my strength and my song; He also is become my YESHUA (Jesus).... And the WORD (Jesus incarnate) became flesh, and dwelt among us. (John 1: 14). ... Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of YESHUA [Jesus - waters of salvation flowing forth from Golgotha].""
===================================================
Those who gave up seeking for truth never find out, especially if they constantly reject God's Word, especially if they sin a sin that leads to death....
Without some knowledge of Hebrew, it is nearly impossible to appreciate how many times Yahshua's Name and Person is Written from Bereshit thru Malachi, from Matther thru the Apocalypse
"In Psalm 91:14-16 God says, Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high [raise him above circumstances], because he hath known my name. He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him and honor him. With long life [eternal life] will I satisfy him, and show him my [YESHUA (Jesus)] salvation. Of course. That promise is realized in Revelation 22:3, 4: And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it: and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see HIS face.
In Isaiah 12:2, 3 we have something wonderful. Here SALVATION is mentioned three times. The reader will be much blessed by reading these glorious verses in his Bible, but let me give them as they actually read in the original Hebrew with Jesus as the embodiment and personification of the word SALVATION: Behold, might (or, God the mighty One) is my YESHUA (Jesus-in His pre-incarnation and eternal existence); I will trust and not be afraid:, for JAH-JAHOVAH is my strength and my song; He also is become my YESHUA (Jesus).... And the WORD (Jesus incarnate) became flesh, and dwelt among us. (John 1: 14). ... Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of YESHUA [Jesus - waters of salvation flowing forth from Golgotha].""
===================================================
Those who gave up seeking for truth never find out, especially if they constantly reject God's Word, especially if they sin a sin that leads to death....
Without some knowledge of Hebrew, it is nearly impossible to appreciate how many times Yahshua's Name and Person is Written from Bereshit thru Malachi, from Matther thru the Apocalypse
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Aww did I stomp on your false religion! So sad....how long have you had this BS in your head? The words saved and salvation appear in the OT and the NT but they mean different things. Only one name can be called upon for salvation. Oh by the way the letter J came out 1400 years after Christ and they replaced the names of persons places and thing that had Y's with J's. Around 30,000 alterations to get that done. Yeshua, Yahweh, Yob, Yacob, Yoseph. The only way for Christ's mother to hear the word Jesus is if someone sneezed!
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I assume you are speaking of water baptism? Well the only entity that I know that teaches water baptism saves is the Catholic Church, which is never taught in Scripture.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
It is more correct to say that baptism is part of the process....the "Way"
Does faith alone save? If nothing else happens are you saved? Just the thought that Christ is real does not save you.
At no point in the scriptures is baptism said to be an option. Christ and the Apostle said to believe and be baptized but I have already told you all this. So believe what you want. From here on you are only going to get cut and paste from me so you and your master cannot deceive those reading.
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?
Matthew 7:21-25
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; be he that believeth not shall be damned.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyer rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of Him.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
The topic of how to achieve salvation is well defined in the Bible. For you to have such a strong desire and intent to pervert the truth and stand against Christ, there has to be something evil within you….past drug use? Dabble in the occult?
God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak. A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly meaning.
Circumcision in the Old Testament is equivalent to baptism today. National Israel fell into the snare, even as Israel today did, that people must be circumcised to gain the kingdom of heaven which is a ritual and therefore a work that man performs as with baptism. And both are contrary to Ephesians 2:8-9.
Christ spoke in parables and most are easy to understand if you have the Spirit of Christ.
Circumcision in Christianity was an effort of the Judaizers. Circumcision nor the Mosaic Laws have anything to do with Christianity. But circumcision was the act of becoming a member of Israelite religion, as is Baptism is the event, visual and spiritual of becoming Christian.
Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
To answer the original question : Baptism of itself doesn't give you salvation; first you need to come to Jesus and repent and then be baptised as a sign. Some wrongly believe that infant 'baptism' gives you salvation and there have been countless discussions/arguments on this subject on every Christian forum I've been part of.
Scripture and I say water baptism is not important.
Jesus never baptized anyone.
Paul did but a few.
To God Be The Glory
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?
Matthew 7:21-25
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; be he that believeth not shall be damned.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyer rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of Him.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
Act 8:26-40
But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, “Get up and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a desert road.) So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship, and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this: “He was led as a sheep to slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He does not open His mouth. “In humiliation His judgment was taken away; Who will relate His generation? For His life is removed from the earth.” The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus.
Acts 10:48
And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.
Acts 16:33
And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.
Acts 18:8
Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.
Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 22:12-16
“A certain Ananias, a man who was devout by the standard of the Law, and well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, came to me, and standing near said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight!’ And at that very time I looked up at him. And he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth. For you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard. Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’
John 3:22-23 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. Can you imagine what it would be like to be baptized under the watchful eye of Christ Himself?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
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Note the verse explicitly demands that the three thousand were already saved when they were baptized..."who had received his word."
To God Be The Glory
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Take this Tonto!
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?
Matthew 7:21-25
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; be he that believeth not shall be damned.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyer rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of Him.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
Act 8:26-40
But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, “Get up and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a desert road.) So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship, and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this: “He was led as a sheep to slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He does not open His mouth. “In humiliation His judgment was taken away; Who will relate His generation? For His life is removed from the earth.” The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus.
Acts 10:48
And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.
Acts 16:33
And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.
Acts 18:8
Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.
Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 22:12-16
“A certain Ananias, a man who was devout by the standard of the Law, and well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, came to me, and standing near said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight!’ And at that very time I looked up at him. And he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth. For you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard. Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’
John 3:22-23 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. Can you imagine what it would be like to be baptized under the watchful eye of Christ Himself?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?
Matthew 7:21-25
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness. Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; be he that believeth not shall be damned.
Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyer rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of Him.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Galatians 1:8-9
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, men and women alike.
Act 8:26-40
But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, “Get up and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza.” (This is a desert road.) So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship, and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go up and join this chariot.” Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” And he said, “Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this: “He was led as a sheep to slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He does not open His mouth. “In humiliation His judgment was taken away; Who will relate His generation? For His life is removed from the earth.” The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus.
Acts 10:48
And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.
Acts 16:33
And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.
Acts 18:8
Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized.
Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 22:12-16
“A certain Ananias, a man who was devout by the standard of the Law, and well spoken of by all the Jews who lived there, came to me, and standing near said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight!’ And at that very time I looked up at him. And he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear an utterance from His mouth. For you will be a witness for Him to all men of what you have seen and heard. Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’
John 3:22-23 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized. Can you imagine what it would be like to be baptized under the watchful eye of Christ Himself?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
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