Jesus Is God Of OT -- God Is (.......) and Jesus Is (......) BUT THERE'S ONLY ONE (......)

101G · Jul 20, 2020

Phoneman777 said:
God demonstrated His great love for Israel in perhaps one of the greatest expressions of that in Hosea, when He said by the example of the prophet taking back his shameful, unfaithful wife, what seemed to be the words, "Return unto Me, O Israel, for I love you and am married unto you!"

And, of course, Jesus Himself warns those who refuse to repent that they will hear Him say, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." I mean, could Jesus's words be any more cutting, could He be any more judgmental than that?

GINOLJC, to all,
thanks for the reply, second, this is what GRACE is all about, God is still demonstrating His great love for all peoples. God, JESUS, have lead the way, and we should follow, Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" that's it in a nutshell.

what a GREAT LOVE.

PICJAG.

101G · Jul 20, 2020

@Phoneman777. here is another set of scriptures that clearly shows the Lord Jesus as the ordinal First, God, "FATHER", the LORD in the OT.
when Saul, going towards Damascus, meets Jesus. Acts 9:3 "And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:"
Acts 9:4 "And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?"
Acts 9:5 "And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."

so Saul, later Paul meets Jesus on the road to Damascus, now this,

Acts 9:10 "And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord."
Acts 9:11 "And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,"
Acts 9:12 "And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight."
Acts 9:13 "Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:"
Acts 9:14 "And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name."
Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"

many scholars say it was God the Father who choose Saul for his Son? well let's see. for Saul, now Paul recount the same incident at Jerusalem to the Jews, Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,"
Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him."
Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

well this is where many scholars, NOT ALL, say, see it was God the Father who choose Saul for his Son. well NO, because Paul when he appealed his conviction to king Agrippa before going to Rome, he had this testomony before the king of the same incident on the road to Damascus. let's hear the Revelation. remember many say it was God the Father who choose Paul, then Saul, Listen,

Acts 26:12 "Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,"
Acts 26:13 "At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me."
Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
Acts 26:15 "And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest."
Acts 26:16 "But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"

here is the Revelation, it was Jesus who "MADE" Paul, then Saul his minister. the Revelastion is in the word "MAKE" it is the Greek word,
G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make
Root(s): G4253, G5495

"Choose" which is the SAME EXACT word used of Ananias in Acts 22:14 when he said who "Choose" him, "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

this word G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizoma, is used only in both Acts 22:14, and Acts 26:16. so when Ananias said, "The God of our fathers hath chosen thee", the God of our fathers is the God of the OT. and in Acts 26:16 , JESUS said he had MADE/Chosen him to be his minister. which means that JESUS is the God of the OT, who is Father.

that right there clearly without a doubt shows that JESUS is both LORD/Father, and Lord/Son. again our Brother Thomas got it right , "My Lord and my God". Jesus is both GOD (Spirit), and Christ, (as a Man, in likeness). he is Lord and God.

PICJAG.

Truther · Jul 20, 2020

Phoneman777 said:
BIBLICAL PROOF THAT JESUS IS THE GOD OF THE OT:

GOD IS GOD:
"I Am the God of thy father." (Exodus 3:6 KJV)

JESUS IS GOD:
"And Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord and my God." (John 20:28 KJV)

ONLY ONE GOD:
"To us there is but one God." (1 Corinthians 8:6 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD THE "I AM":
"Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent Me unto you." (Exodus 3:14 KJV)

JESUS THE "I AM":
"Before Abraham was, I AM." (John 8:50 KJV)

ONLY ONE "I AM":
"I AM the first and I AM the last and beside Me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD IS THE MIGHTY GOD:
"The Mighty God, even the Lord..." (Psalms 50:1 KJV)

JESUS IS THE MIGHTY GOD:
"His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God..." (Isaiah 9:6 KJV)

ONLY ONE GOD, ALMIGHTY:
"The Lord appeard unto Abram, and said unto him, I AM the Almighty God..." (Genesis 17:1 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD IS THE FATHER:
"But now, O Lord, Thou art our Father." (Isaiah 64:8 KJV)

JESUS IS THE FATHER:
"His name shall be called...the Everlasting Father..." (Isaiah 9:6 KJV)

ONLY ONE FATHER:
"...for One is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD THE JUDGE:
"For God is Judge Himself." (Psalms 50:6 KJV)

JESUS THE JUDGE:
"For we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." (2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV)

ONLY ONE JUDGE:
"There is One that seeketh and judgeth." (John 8:50 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD THE ROCK:
"The Lord is my Rock." (Psalms 18:2 KJV)

JESUS THE ROCK:
"...and that Rock was Christ." (1 Corinthians 10:4 KJV)

ONLY ONE ROCK:
"He only is my Rock." (Psalms 62:2 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD THE SHEPHERD:
"The Lord is my Shepherd." (Psalms 23:1 KLV)

JESUS THE SHEPHERD:
"I am the Good Shepherd." (John 10:11 KJV)

ONLY ONE SHEPHERD:
"...there shall be one fold and One Shepherd." (John 10:16 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD IS LORD OF LORDS:
"For the Lord your God is...Lord of lords." (Deuteronomy 10:17 KJV)

JESUS IS LORD OF LORDS:
"...and on His thigh a name written King of kings and Lord of lords." (Revelation 19:16 KJV)

ONLY ONE LORD OF LORDS:
"...the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of Lords." (1 Timothy 6:16 KJV)

-----------------------------------------------------------
GOD'S WAY PREPARED:
"Behold, I will send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me: and the Lord, Whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Messenger of the Covenant, Whom ye delight in: behold, He shall come, saith the Lord of hosts." (Malachi 3:1 KJV)

JESUS' WAY PREPARED:
"He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord (Jesus), as said the prophet Esaias. " (John 1:23 KJV)

ONLY ONE FOR WHICH THE WAY IS PREPARED:
"The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord." (Isaiah 40:3 KJV)

Jesus was made God via the Col 2:9 effect on his resurrected, quickening spirit body.

Prior to being resurrected, he was only a mortal.

Phoneman777 · Jul 20, 2020

Cooper said:
The only 'work' we need do is to repent of our sins, and then we shall be paid in full.
.

Amen...I been telling people for years that our duty to choose repentance is not "work", it's "thought", but many insist that choice is work so that they can keep on choosing sin and still go to heaven - because "we're saved by grace, not by 'choice'..." LOL

Phoneman777 · Jul 20, 2020

101G said:
@Phoneman777. here is another set of scriptures that clearly shows the Lord Jesus as the ordinal First, God, "FATHER", the LORD in the OT.
when Saul, going towards Damascus, meets Jesus. Acts 9:3 "And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:"
Acts 9:4 "And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?"
Acts 9:5 "And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."

so Saul, later Paul meets Jesus on the road to Damascus, now this,

Acts 9:10 "And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord."
Acts 9:11 "And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,"
Acts 9:12 "And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight."
Acts 9:13 "Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:"
Acts 9:14 "And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name."
Acts 9:15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:"

many scholars say it was God the Father who choose Saul for his Son? well let's see. for Saul, now Paul recount the same incident at Jerusalem to the Jews, Acts 22:12 "And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,"
Acts 22:13 "Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him."
Acts 22:14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

well this is where many scholars, NOT ALL, say, see it was God the Father who choose Saul for his Son. well NO, because Paul when he appealed his conviction to king Agrippa before going to Rome, he had this testomony before the king of the same incident on the road to Damascus. let's hear the Revelation. remember many say it was God the Father who choose Paul, then Saul, Listen,

Acts 26:12 "Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests,"
Acts 26:13 "At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me."
Acts 26:14 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
Acts 26:15 "And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest."
Acts 26:16 "But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;"

here is the Revelation, it was Jesus who "MADE" Paul, then Saul his minister. the Revelastion is in the word "MAKE" it is the Greek word,
G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
[middle voice from G4253 and a derivative of G5495]
KJV: choose, make
Root(s): G4253, G5495

"Choose" which is the SAME EXACT word used of Ananias in Acts 22:14 when he said who "Choose" him, "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth."

this word G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizoma, is used only in both Acts 22:14, and Acts 26:16. so when Ananias said, "The God of our fathers hath chosen thee", the God of our fathers is the God of the OT. and in Acts 26:16 , JESUS said he had MADE/Chosen him to be his minister. which means that JESUS is the God of the OT, who is Father.

that right there clearly without a doubt shows that JESUS is both LORD/Father, and Lord/Son. again our Brother Thomas got it right , "My Lord and my God". Jesus is both GOD (Spirit), and Christ, (as a Man, in likeness). he is Lord and God.

PICJAG.

It's rare to read such deep exegesis that is hermeneutically correct, but that is spot on, brother! The Godhead is comprised of Three Persons, One God, and as much as proponents of the "better MSS" howl and yell, the fact is that 1 John 5:7 IS IN FACT Biblical and right where the KJV says it ought to be, and declares "For there are Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these Three are One".

When will these understand and accept that their "older means better" argument regarding MSS falls flat when that which is even older than these -- namely, letters written between the ECFs -- contain verses which are found in the Textus Receptus but are missing in the corrupted Critical Texts! It is not that the Textus Receptus added 1 John 5:7 KJV or any of the others, but that the corrupted Western Family and the Alexandrian Family MSS REMOVED TEXTS WHICH CONFIRM THE DIVINITY OF JESUS!

101G · Jul 20, 2020

Phoneman777 said:
It's rare to read such deep exegesis that is hermeneutically correct, but that is spot on, brother! The Godhead is comprised of Three Persons, One God, and as much as proponents of the "better MSS" howl and yell, the fact is that 1 John 5:7 IS IN FACT Biblical and right where the KJV says it ought to be, and declares "For there are Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these Three are One".

First thanks for the reply, second, Maybe you must have misunderstood me. I don't support three person as one God, I support one PERSON who is God as the diversity of himself, or the ANOTHER of himself in a plurality of ONE as the Hebrew word H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') describe in Deuteronomy 6:4.

and 1 John 5:7 describe the TITLES of the ONE person diversified in flesh and bone in heaven. for "THESE" are titles only. if 1 John 5:7 would have said, "THEY" are one then you would have a trinity of "person(s). but 1 John 5:7 clearly states, "THESE", which are not person(s), but TITLES of ONE person, the Lord Jesus. so yes, 1 John 5:7 is correct in that it describes the Lord Jesus TITLES in heaven. the KJV is correct, concering the TITLE of one person in Heaven, the Lord Jesus.

PICJAG.

Phoneman777 · Jul 20, 2020

Truther said:
Jesus was made God via the Col 2:9 effect on his resurrected, quickening spirit body.

Prior to being resurrected, he was only a mortal.

Here's a 10 Megaton truth bomb for you: (Warning: the collateral damage is going to be devastating)

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (which being interpreted is "God With Us"). Isaiah 7:14 KJV

Unless people back in the day waited until their kids were 33 years old before naming them, the name "God With Us" was given to the baby Jesus decades before His resurrection.

DPMartin · Jul 20, 2020

Phoneman777 said:
BIBLICAL PROOF THAT JESUS IS THE GOD OF THE OT:

GOD IS GOD:
"I Am the God of thy father." (Exodus 3:6 KJV)

JESUS IS GOD:
"And Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord and my God." (John 20:28 KJV)

ONLY ONE GOD:
"To us there is but one God." (1 Corinthians 8:6 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD THE "I AM":
"Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent Me unto you." (Exodus 3:14 KJV)

JESUS THE "I AM":
"Before Abraham was, I AM." (John 8:50 KJV)

ONLY ONE "I AM":
"I AM the first and I AM the last and beside Me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD IS THE MIGHTY GOD:
"The Mighty God, even the Lord..." (Psalms 50:1 KJV)

JESUS IS THE MIGHTY GOD:
"His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God..." (Isaiah 9:6 KJV)

ONLY ONE GOD, ALMIGHTY:
"The Lord appeard unto Abram, and said unto him, I AM the Almighty God..." (Genesis 17:1 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD IS THE FATHER:
"But now, O Lord, Thou art our Father." (Isaiah 64:8 KJV)

JESUS IS THE FATHER:
"His name shall be called...the Everlasting Father..." (Isaiah 9:6 KJV)

ONLY ONE FATHER:
"...for One is your Father, which is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD THE JUDGE:
"For God is Judge Himself." (Psalms 50:6 KJV)

JESUS THE JUDGE:
"For we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." (2 Corinthians 5:10 KJV)

ONLY ONE JUDGE:
"There is One that seeketh and judgeth." (John 8:50 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD THE ROCK:
"The Lord is my Rock." (Psalms 18:2 KJV)

JESUS THE ROCK:
"...and that Rock was Christ." (1 Corinthians 10:4 KJV)

ONLY ONE ROCK:
"He only is my Rock." (Psalms 62:2 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD THE SHEPHERD:
"The Lord is my Shepherd." (Psalms 23:1 KLV)

JESUS THE SHEPHERD:
"I am the Good Shepherd." (John 10:11 KJV)

ONLY ONE SHEPHERD:
"...there shall be one fold and One Shepherd." (John 10:16 KJV)

------------------------------------------------------------
GOD IS LORD OF LORDS:
"For the Lord your God is...Lord of lords." (Deuteronomy 10:17 KJV)

JESUS IS LORD OF LORDS:
"...and on His thigh a name written King of kings and Lord of lords." (Revelation 19:16 KJV)

ONLY ONE LORD OF LORDS:
"...the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of Lords." (1 Timothy 6:16 KJV)

-----------------------------------------------------------
GOD'S WAY PREPARED:
"Behold, I will send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me: and the Lord, Whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Messenger of the Covenant, Whom ye delight in: behold, He shall come, saith the Lord of hosts." (Malachi 3:1 KJV)

JESUS' WAY PREPARED:
"He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord (Jesus), as said the prophet Esaias. " (John 1:23 KJV)

ONLY ONE FOR WHICH THE WAY IS PREPARED:
"The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord." (Isaiah 40:3 KJV)

ok but why the insistence of "Son of God"?

your presentation is like bricks that are not a building.

Phoneman777 · Jul 20, 2020

101G said:
First thanks for the reply, second, Maybe you must have misunderstood me. I don't support three person as one God, I support one PERSON who is God as the diversity of himself, or the ANOTHER of himself in a plurality of ONE as the Hebrew word H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') describe in Deuteronomy 6:4.

and 1 John 5:7 describe the TITLES of the ONE person diversified in flesh and bone in heaven. for "THESE" are titles only. if 1 John 5:7 would have said, "THEY" are one then you would have a trinity of "person(s). but 1 John 5:7 clearly states, "THESE", which are not person(s), but TITLES of ONE person, the Lord Jesus. so yes, 1 John 5:7 is correct in that it describes the Lord Jesus TITLES in heaven. the KJV is correct, concering the TITLE of one person in Heaven, the Lord Jesus.

PICJAG.

Ah, then we'll have to disagree about that, but I appreciate that upon which we do agree. I just can't see how there are not Three Persons (and not just titles) when that day in the Jordan, the Father was in heaven booming His voice in approval, the Holy Spirit descended as a dove between heaven and Earth, as Jesus was soaked in the waters of baptism. I have a childhood friend that believes as you do.

I'm pretty sure that the danger is only in not believing Jesus as fully God, because that is the point upon which the occult world of false religion and pseudo-Christianity stands. It is the reason for the invention of the corrupt Critical Text MSS and the Total Onslaught against Christ by the occult world. You can check out a Youtube series by that very name, which goes into how the secret societies of the world are the vehicle by which the Antichrist is assuming control.

Joseph77 · Jul 20, 2020

Phoneman777 said:
hermeneutically correct

Clarifying, what does 'hermen' say about the son and the Father being echad, the son's prayer to the Father that all His permanent disciples also be echad with the son and with the Father just as the son and the Father are echad (one).

Along with "in union", as written, the Ekklesia (called out ones, called by God and set apart by God for Himself)
living daily "in union" with Jesus and with the Father ?

Cooper · Jul 20, 2020

Phoneman777 said:
Here's a 10 Megaton truth bomb for you: (Warning: the collateral damage is going to be devastating)

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (which being interpreted is "God With Us"). Isaiah 7:14 KJV

Unless people back in the day waited until their kids were 33 years old before naming them, the name "God With Us" was given to the baby Jesus decades before His resurrection.

JESUS Jehovah's name ON EARTH. One God. Only the name is different.

101G · Jul 20, 2020

Phoneman777 said:
Ah, then we'll have to disagree about that, but I appreciate that upon which we do agree. I just can't see how there are not Three Persons (and not just titles) when that day in the Jordan, the Father was in heaven booming His voice in approval, the Holy Spirit descended as a dove between heaven and Earth, as Jesus was soaked in the waters of baptism. I have a childhood friend that believes as you do.

I'm pretty sure that the danger is only in not believing Jesus as fully God, because that is the point upon which the occult world of false religion and pseudo-Christianity stands. It is the reason for the invention of the corrupt Critical Text MSS and the Total Onslaught against Christ by the occult world. You can check out a Youtube series by that very name, which goes into how the secret societies of the world are the vehicle by which the Antichrist is assuming control.

thanks for the reply. second, JESUS IS THE ONLY GOD. the bible clearly states JESUS is the only TRUE and Living God, (per 1 Timothy 6:16). and the bible clearly states that there is only ONE "MAKER". supportive scripture, Isaiah 51:13 "And forgettest the LORD thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?"

WHO Laid the foundations of the Earth? Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:" the LORD is the Lord, diversified in flesh and Blood, at John 1:1.

a trinity believing poster said this, "The LORD and the Lord" are interchangable, well if so, then out the door goes separate and distinct persons.

there is only ONE "MAKER of ALL THINGS", per John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24, and he was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF". if there was another person, he could not have been alone, but the bible clearly states he was "Alone", and "By Himself". so that's clear as day. if there was another person, ... who is omnipresent, then HE could not be "alone" and by "himself". but the bible clearly states "HE" was "alone" and by "himself".

PICJAG.

Cooper · Jul 20, 2020

DPMartin said:
ok but why the insistence of "Son of God"?

your presentation is like bricks that are not a building.

If Jesus had said he was a Son of God, then according to Jewish tradition, that would have made Jesus a mere mortal. This is what the Jews of the day tried to do. Jesus never claimed that of himself, although he did speak of God's only begotten Son, leaving Nicodemus to work out who that was. It was other people who said Jesus was the Son of God in an attempt to reduce his status. Here are three examples from scripture:

Mat 4:3 KJV - And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Mat 4:6 KJV - And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 8:29 KJV - And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

What Jesus actually said was that he was the great I AM of the Old Testament, and that he existed before Abraham. No human being could say that. The Jews accused him of saying he was Jehovah, which was sacrilege and was punishable by death, which is what they wanted. The truth of the matter is that Jesus who never told a lie, was telling the people He actually WAS Jehovah on earth, not the Son, which was only the flesh anyway. So please don't say Jesus was not Yahweh, because we have it from the lips of our heavenly God himself, who broadcast it to the assembled people at his baptism. Those who want to deny the Trinity will have to argue it out with two other persons of the Trinity and personally I would not even attempt it, for to deny Jesus is to deny the almighty.
.

Davy · Jul 20, 2020

janc said:
If this is so, then one would have to understand why the Bible clearly separates God and the Messiah.

How can God grow in wisdom and greatness, or why does he speak to himself? It is written that God's mind became flesh, it could be that through this incarnation a new person was created who is separated from the Father, but both are one in spirit. This would mean that God has begotten a real son who is like him.

That faulty thinking is based on the old false Jewish tradition that a person doesn't exist until they are made flesh.

The actual truth of the matter is that we, our person, is not of the flesh at all!

The spirit part returning back to God upon death of the flesh per Eccl.12:5-7 includes our 'person' or soul part too, which Jesus showed this in Matthew 10:28 when He said to not fear those who can kill our flesh, but not our soul, but fear GOD instead Who can destroy both body (spiritual body) and soul in the lake of fire.

The false Jewish tradition on Ecc.12:5-7 is that that "spirit" there is only about some animation of life in a material body, and applies even to plants and animals. It is not limited to that, as Jesus showed in Matthew 10:28, as also shown in Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man, and what Jesus said to the malefactor crucified with Him that believed on Him. Moreover, even Apostle Paul in 2 Corinthians 5 revealed the present existence of our spirit body that is preserved if our flesh were dissolved.

Jesus was God The Son before He was born in the flesh, and also while He was in the flesh, and also after His resurrection. His flesh birth has absolutely nothing to do with His actual Spirit existence as God.

101G · Jul 20, 2020

Phoneman777 said:
Here's a 10 Megaton truth bomb for you: (Warning: the collateral damage is going to be devastating)

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (which being interpreted is "God With Us"). Isaiah 7:14 KJV

Unless people back in the day waited until their kids were 33 years old before naming them, the name "God With Us" was given to the baby Jesus decades before His resurrection.

well here's another bombshell. the name Jesus existed, and was given to Mary before, before, before, the flesh was conceived in her womb Luke 2:21 "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb."

so God had that Name "BEFORE" he came in that flesh.

PICJAG.

Davy · Jul 20, 2020

101G said:
well here's another bombshell. the name Jesus existed, and was given to Mary before, before, before, the flesh was conceived in her womb Luke 2:21 "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb."

so God had that Name "BEFORE" he came in that flesh.

PICJAG.

The name Jesus is an English translation from Greek Iesous which is a Greek translation from Hebrew Yehowshuwa (Strong's no.2424; OT:3091), which is the OT English name Joshua. That Hebrew name is made up of OT:3068 Yehovah (LORD GOD), and OT:3467 yasha' which means to save or preserve or defend.

So when we say our Lord Jesus' name, we are actually saying 'Yehovah saves' pointing directly to The Father also. Thus Jesus Christ means Yehovah Anointed Savior.

101G · Jul 20, 2020

Davy said:
The name Jesus is an English translation from Greek Iesous which is a Greek translation from Hebrew Yehowshuwa (Strong's no.2424; OT:3091), which is the OT English name Joshua. That Hebrew name is made up of OT:3068 Yehovah (LORD GOD), and OT:3467 yasha' which means to save or preserve or defend.

So when we say our Lord Jesus' name, we are actually saying 'Yehovah saves' pointing directly to The Father also. Thus Jesus Christ means Yehovah Anointed Savior.

Hebrew Yeshua, Enflish, transliteration Jesus. Jehovah, AKA Yahweh all false names. "I AM" is what God is not Who he is.

PICJAG

Taken · Jul 20, 2020

janc said:
If this is so, then one would have to understand why the Bible clearly separates God and the Messiah.

God and His Christ Messiah were never "separated".

God IS omnipresent.

How can God grow in wisdom and greatness, or why does he speak to himself? It is written that God's mind became flesh, it could be that through this incarnation a new person was created who is separated from the Father, but both are one in spirit. This would mean that God has begotten a real son who is like him.

How does a Parent, A Teacher, An Example ...
Teach a Babe?
On a Skill "Level" of the Teacher?
Or on the "Level" of the Babe?

People are the Children/ Babes.
Jesus came To Earth "Humbled" in the "Likeness as a man/Babe/Child".

Phil 2:
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Jesus did not Come to the Earth, To Jews, AS the Christ (POWER) of God.
Jesus came to Earth AS Jesus (The True Word of God), AS A Humbled Servant OF God...

Jesus Served Gods Purpose ON Earth, By teaching Little Children/Babes/Earthly men...
Bit by Bit, "humbled and without Reputation"...
From a modest little Town, Laborer of wood-Works, No Fancy Clothing, No Fancy Carriage No Fancy Jewels Adorning Him, No Status of Royality or Famous or Riches.

And Because...He Was Not ^ (those things), and Did Not ^ (have those thing)...Many Others (who Were and Did Have those things),
Thought of Jesus as a "nobody of Importance"
....AT First.

John 1:
[43] The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.
[44] Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
[45] Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
[46] And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

Notice...Jesus went about...Walking, Speaking, Teaching, Exampling Himself..."as" a man Face TO Face TO men...and the men began spreading the word, to come hear this guy JESUS, and the Crowd of Listeners grew.

First...THEN...as more gathered and Listened To Jesus...the Jewish Phariseess', the Jewish Sanhedrins became Concerned/ Worried and
First...Tried to Confront Jesus with Challenges they thought would make Jesus look bad...
That Failed.
Then Tried to stone Jesus to Dearh in the Streets.
That Failed.
Then Tried to Convince Roman Authorities Jesus was breaking Roman Law, By inciting a Riot.
That Failed.
Then according to Roman Law, during the Roman Governors Feast day...Jews were Allowed ONE Prisoner Exchange.
The Jews/ Pharisee Leaders, began calling for Prisoner Barabas' Release...AND Jesus TO instead...Be sentenced To Death...BY Crucification.
That Succeeded...on Jesus' Timeframe, As Jesus Himself...announced...He had Accomplish-ed,
(what He was sent Forth (out of Gods Mouth), To Do.

Foretold:
Isaiah 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Came to pass:
John 19:
[28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
[29] Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
[30] When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

"What" Jesus "accomplished", in the humble Likeness AS a man...
"WAS"...Earthly men, Can Hear, Learn, Gods Truth, bit by bit, Believe, bit by bit, and Experience, bit by bit and (without being famous or wealthy) can Teach others Gods Word, so Others may Also, Experience the Blessings of God.

Jesus IS the Word of God.
Jesus' (reputation "Revealed" While Jesus WAS ON Earth)...
IS JESUS IS the Christ of God...
And Christ IS "the Power, the Wisdom & Seed of God.

1 Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Luke 8:
[11] Now the parable is this: The SEED is the word of God.
Gal 3:
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Point is: Jesus specifically came in the "LIKENESS" as a man TO:
Teach and Show All Earthly men..no matter a man's status in this world (famous or not, rich or poor)...Gods Word is for All men, and Any man Can Hear, Learn, Believe, Be Blessed with Gods Gift of FAITH, Experience the Results of Gods Blessing(S), and open their own mouth speaking the Word of God TO other Earthly men....
That Gods Offering...
IS: TO "MAKE" Earthly men...(while still alive "IN their Earthly Flesh"...)
In THE "LIKENESS" of God.

God Does NOT Change.
Mal 3:
[6] For I am the LORD, I change not;

God IS all knowing, all Power.
He CAN and DOES "Appear" in a "Likeness" men can SEE...To Teach Men (who can Not SEE GOD)...
"HOW"...(A WAY)... Earthly men CAN Become MADE in Gods LIKENESS.

LIKENESS-
God can appear in the LIKENESS AS a man, without BEING an Earthly man.

Earthly man can appear in the LIKENESS AS God, without the man BEING God.

Jesus "growth" in Wisdom and Power (to heal and DO miracles and raise the dead)...was Jesus' "Reputation" Being REVEALED".

A Babes human Earthly man's "growth" in Wisdom and Power (to DO miracles to heal and raise the dead...IN the "NAME" of Jesus...Reveals Christ Jesus' Supernatural Power IS "IN" that man.
(And THAT man called "IN" Christ).

Jesus, Christ, The Lord...IS NOT a human Earthly CREATED man.
He IS: the Word, Power, Wisdom, Seed, Spirit, Teacher, Forgiver, Savior, Justifier, Sanctifier, Redeemer of (Mankind)... (WHO)...
Freely Choose To Follow Christ the Lord Jesus' WAY to RECEIVE that Which He Offers.

Glory to God,
Taken

Taken · Jul 20, 2020

101G said:
Hebrew Yeshua, Enflish, transliteration Jesus. Jehovah, AKA Yahweh all false names. "I AM" is what God is not Who he is.

PICJAG

A translation tells you the meaning of words in another language.
A transliteration doesn't tell you the meaning of the words, but it helps you pronounce them.
Transliteration changes the letters from one alphabet or language into the corresponding, similar-sounding characters of another alphabet.

The Spelling and Pronouncing; of the NAME of the Word of God in Any man's Natural Language, Does NOT confuse God or the individual that it IS the Word of God Himself, being identified, referenced and spoken.

Glory to God,
Taken

Davy · Jul 20, 2020

101G said:
Hebrew Yeshua, Enflish, transliteration Jesus. Jehovah, AKA Yahweh all false names. "I AM" is what God is not Who he is.

PICJAG

YHVH, Yah, YaHaVeH, I AM THAT I AM, El, Adhonay, Elohim, Rock, Kadhosh, El Shadday, Abhir, Elyon, Tsaddiq; He has many names.

Jesus Is God Of OT -- God Is (.......) and Jesus Is (......) BUT THERE'S ONLY ONE (......)

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