The Calling of the 144,000

Christina · Jan 12, 2010

guysmith said:
Christ suggest that there will be Christian individuals that will physically escape the coming tribulation period. He further clarifies that they will be found standing with Him..

Luke 21: 36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

In the end, the only ones found “standing” with Christ are the 144K. John states that they will “redeemed from the earth” and be found with Christ on Mount Zion.

Revelation 14: 1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

The prophet Joel confirms this by stating that there will be Christian “survivors” on Mount Zion in Jerusalem.

Joel 2:32And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

This is the calling of the 144,000 and the daughters of Zion

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Well if thats what you believe then guess you can do what you think is right, But going to Jersusalem wont save you.
we are chosen and judged by our heart not location.

There isnt any scripture that say any of what you stated.
I know thats your belive and thats your choice
(I make this statement as a wittness not to you personally but for others reading so as they are not mislead)

Everyone must go through the tribulation thats what you need to overcome to be a over comer and only the over comers will reign and rule with Christ.
All others that are deserving that do not overcome will have to be taught in the millennium and retested when Satan is loosed again for a short time after the 1000 years ..Then comes final White throne judgement

These verse's in Isa. are describing the Millieum
Isa.54
13And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

guysmith · Jan 19, 2010

The most important thing can be summed up in the following verses

John 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Whether you are alive or have died in Christ, it makes no difference. However, Christ did say:

Luke 21:36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

....which suggest that there will be Christian individuals that will be alive at Christ's advent and that we should pray that we are found worthy to be alive at this monumental event. If this is the case, one might ask if there are more scriptures which provide us with details about Christian individuals which will be alive at Christ's advent?

In Revelation, John states in the parable of "the woman and the manchild" that the woman will flee to "a place" (not many places) prepared by God where she will be fed and protected for the 1260 day duration of the Great Tribulation.

Revelation 12: 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days....
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

The question now is: who is the woman? For discussion sake, let's go with Israel as many believe. So, are there any scriptures which describe representatives of Israel together with Christ? John provides us with some insight.

Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

...and the place is Mount Zion in Jerusalem.

This is the calling of the 144,000 and the daughters of Zion.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Christina · Jan 19, 2010

Of course ther are people left alive Your scripture is correct be careful you are not leaving out key puzzel pieces.
I also feel you need to be cautious you are not reading what you want to see,....instead of whats actually said.

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
At Christ return we are all changed to incorruptible bodies

And you are right God does protect his own but no matter where they are do you not remember Eygpt ? The angel of death came did the God not protect his children ..There is nothing new under the sun ...The 144,000 were already protected from the time of the sealing in Rev. 7
Satan can not hurt them where ever they are only the unsealed .....

Rev. 14 is after Christ Returns the 144,000 were all those that were sealed by God before the tribulation even started ....
They are all alive in incorruptable bodies in Rev. 14 read 1 Cor. All are changed
careful that you rightly divide .... If one is of the 144.000 they are put under the seal of Gods protection before the first trumpet sounds Rev 14 is after the trumpts are done ..
.Dont forget God has sent his angels out to gather 144,000 from the four corners of the earth

Tombstone · Jan 23, 2010

Benoni said:
This is not what scripture declares, there are two types of people in the Book of Revelation. Those who overcame and those who do not. All of us have the mark of the beast, it is our beastly nature, what we need do is get rid of it.

Who are the elect? The Overcomers. There are two types of people in the Book of Revelation; the Overcomer and everyone else.

Just because you are heir to salvation does not make you the elect.

Notice there is a distinction between the great multitudes BEFORE the throne which are not overcomers (Rev. 7:9) in comparison to the overcomer who Christ will grant to sit with me on my throne (Rev. 3:21) .

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev. 3: 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

.

Weren't you the one who said:
"The Book of Revelation is not a literal book, it is not even a partial literal, and no where in its pages is there any mention of this yet God’s people do there best to literalize the most spiritual book in the whole Bible. "

You started a whole thread just to make that point.

guysmith · Jan 27, 2010

Zechariah 14:1 A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided among you.
2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Those individuals that Christ is coming to fight for in Jerusalem are:

1. Christian.
Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

2. They do not possess the-mark-of-the-beast.
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Mount Zion in Jerusalem is the-place-of-safety where God has called his "elect" to gather for the duration of the Great Tribulation.

In Yehoshua,
GuySmith

Christina · Jan 27, 2010

Guy
You miss one vital fact here the Day of the Lord is the seventh trump the tribulation is over
the seventh trump is not the tribulation its God wrath upon Satan and his
it has nothing to do with Christians/believers
thats why they are with him he sends his Angels out to gather them from the four corners of the earth that all the earth
he never says you must come here...

Unless you are following Satan you have nothing to fear from Gods Wrath at the 7th trump
the day of the Lord Ends the tribulation not the begins it ..

guysmith · Jan 27, 2010

Hello Christina,

You stated: You miss one vital fact here the Day of the Lord is the seventh trump the tribulation is over
the seventh trump is not the tribulation its God wrath upon Satan....

My response: No, i did not miss this point, in fact I agree with you whole hardedly.

You stated:...it has nothing to do with Christians/believers

My response: I get the impression that you feel that the individuals (which will be in Jerusalem at that time) are not Christian and will possess the-mark-of -the-beast.

Guy

Christina · Jan 27, 2010

guysmith said:
Hello Christina,

You stated: You miss one vital fact here the Day of the Lord is the seventh trump the tribulation is over
the seventh trump is not the tribulation its God wrath upon Satan....

My response: No, i did not miss this point, in fact I agree with you whole hardedly.

You stated:...it has nothing to do with Christians/believers

My response: I get the impression that you feel that the individuals (which will be in Jerusalem at that time) are not Christian and will possess the-mark-of -the-beast.

Guy

Hi Guy

Not at all I dont think it matters if the overcomers or Elect are in Jerusalem or a cave in Bangladesh
God knows the number of hairs on our very head ..Surley he knows where they all are ..as I pointed out he sends his Angels to 4 corners of the earth to gather them ...

He then pours his wrath out on Satan and his and his world system .....
Now a little common sense thinking here tells me.

At this point We have overcome the tribulation of Satan we have not taken the mark we have become
those who reign and rule with Christ in the millieum just as God had intended and as we told by him ..

. Now after all this God is going to let me die in his wrath on Satan because I couldnt make it to Jerusalem when he never says we are to go there in the first place?

.. If I dont have more faith than that in my God and his Words Im not going to make through the millieum in the first place ...He says he will send his Angels out to gather his Elect and the overcomers from all over the earth

I simply take him at his word ...

I also dont think that one of Satans can hide from either no matter where they are ..
Its God we are talking about here not some little General somewhere that if we do not run to town we left behind ....

As I have told you if you feel lead to go to Jerusalem its not my place to tell differnt
but if your going because you think thats only safe place ...
You are sorely mistaken

the seal of God is in your mind/heart and its that seal that prorects you ...not your location .... God puts that seal in your mind before the first trump sounds, and tells Satan he can only hurt those without his seal. Going to Jerusalem isnt going to get you sealed or not sealed. Whats in your mind and heart is ....

God will gather us all to his side before his wrath on Satan .. I just have faith he knows where we will be

jerryjohnson · Jan 27, 2010

Seems to me we are told to "flee Judea," not all run over there.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

mjrhealth · Jan 28, 2010

Benoni, you speak in goobly gook How can some of the 144 000 be non believers, they are Gods Elect, the ones He has chosen, for them not to believe they cant be a part of the group. That is just foolish thinking. Maybe you are a little confused.

In His Love

guysmith · Jan 29, 2010

Hello JJ,

You stated: Seems to me we are told to "flee Judea," not all run over there.

My response: That is what the preterist want you to think. If you read the passage carefully you will see that Christ's instructions are not to "flee Jerusalem," but rather for those in Judea to flee to the mountains. If you look at the topography of the area you will see to the west of Jerusalem (at sea level) is the Mediterranian Sea. To the east of Jerusalem (below sea level) is the Dead Sea. If you start at either body of water and go toward Jerusalem you will see that it is an uphill trek making Jerusalem the highest point in the area.

Also, I would like to point out that Jerusalem is built on three mountains, two of which are Mount Zion and Mount Moriah. So, in effect, the only mountains in the area are the mountains which Jerusalem is built upon.

Guy

jerryjohnson · Jan 29, 2010

guysmith

You go where ever you want, ok.

Christina · Jan 29, 2010

guysmith said:
Hello JJ,

You stated: Seems to me we are told to "flee Judea," not all run over there.

My response: That is what the preterist want you to think. If you read the passage carefully you will see that Christ's instructions are not to "flee Jerusalem," but rather for those in Judea to flee to the mountains. If you look at the topography of the area you will see to the west of Jerusalem (at sea level) is the Mediterranian Sea. To the east of Jerusalem (below sea level) is the Dead Sea. If you start at either body of water and go toward Jerusalem you will see that it is an uphill trek making Jerusalem the highest point in the area.

Also, I would like to point out that Jerusalem is built on three mountains, two of which are Mount Zion and Mount Moriah. So, in effect, the only mountains in the area are the mountains which Jerusalem is built upon.

Guy

I dont see you reasoning here at all ..
If I tell you to get out of town because Im about to destroy it ..
How on earth does that mean everyone is to run into town first .....so I can tell you to get out of town ?????????

guysmith · Jan 31, 2010

A better question would be: Why would Christ tell Christians to flee from Jerusalem, after God (through the OT prophets) has previously stated that HE will "call" a group of "survivors" which HE promises to "defend" on Mount Zion in Jerusalem?

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Isaiah 31: 4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof. 5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

Isaiah 4:2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire. 5 Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over all the glory will be a canopy. 6 It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain.

Christina · Jan 31, 2010

guysmith said:
A better question would be: Why would Christ tell Christians to flee from Jerusalem, after God (through the OT prophets) has previously stated that HE will "call" a group of "survivors" which HE promises to "defend" on Mount Zion in Jerusalem?

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Isaiah 31: 4 For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof. 5 As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

Isaiah 4:2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem. 4 The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire. 5 Then the LORD will create over all of Mount Zion and over those who assemble there a cloud of smoke by day and a glow of flaming fire by night; over all the glory will be a canopy. 6 It will be a shelter and shade from the heat of the day, and a refuge and hiding place from the storm and rain.

As I have explained many times you are correct but he never says we must travel to Jerusalem
he says he sends his angels to gather us from the four corners of the earth beliving that and trusting it is a matter of faith.
seconly when Christ arrives we are changed to a non flesh and blood body 1 Cor.15
So its not that you are not right on the parts of scripture you see ..Your just not getting the whole picture
you are putting/adding your own thoughts into it and not understanding the whole of whats being said.

You only hear we are with him in Jersalem ... then you seem to close off to the rest... of how and when
Dont you think it shows rather a lack of faith that you think you must do it yourself when God says he will gather you?
Dont you think this is your flesh man speaking that you must do something to save yourself because your afraid to trust Gods promise?
Perhaps these are questions you need to ask of yourself no one knows the answer but you ..Are you being called there or are you trying to give yourself somekind of insurance policy that you think will make a differance ... if so there is no insurance policy that replaces faith
faith by defention is believe in things not seen ...

guysmith · Feb 7, 2010

Christina,

You stated:As I have explained many times you are correct but he never says we must travel to Jerusalem

My response: You are correct. Not everyone is called to this calling. However, there are plenty of passages which suggest traveling to Jerusalem.

Isaiah 2: 2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

I guess the only ones going are those which hear the call.

Guy

Christina · Feb 7, 2010

guysmith said:
Christina,

You stated:As I have explained many times you are correct but he never says we must travel to Jerusalem

My response: You are correct. Not everyone is called to this calling. However, there are plenty of passages which suggest traveling to Jerusalem.

Isaiah 2: 2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

I guess the only ones going are those which hear the call.

Guy

That doesnt even make sense to me ... your logic only seems to see half the story without thinking the entire thought through ... Lets look at the entire thought
obviously this can not occur until Christ returns at the 7th trump which is at the End
Anti christ sets up camp in Jerusalem FIRST ..YOU BEST BETTER FIX THAT THOUGHT IN YOUR MIND LEST YOU FOOLED BY THE FAKE ..
Once christ is here all will bow a knee to Christ we are not even in flesh bodies (1 Cor15 )at this time ... So be careful what you read into Gods Words. Rev.7:9 -17

Samuel Pickens · Feb 10, 2010

guysmith, The versus you posted are not scripture: unsure where you got that text.

The 10 Lost Tribes are no longer lost. They have been found and noted by the Jewish community and documented and video taped and the whole ball of wax. So you can use the 12 tribes now.

Notice in the scripture that it is the name of God the Father and not Jesus that it said as being in their foreheads. I think Guy that you said both. names.

Opps; dinner bell ringing............. later

guysmith · Feb 11, 2010

Hello Samuel,

You stated: The versus you posted are not scripture: unsure where you got that text.

My response: You are going to have to explain yourself. Which versus did I post that are not scripture?

Guy

Samuel Pickens · Feb 12, 2010

Probably can count as a 'mis-read' on my part................

As you can tell; too many iron in the fire at that time with conversations going on and multiple topics. Personal conversations on the side.

So; count it as a mistake on my part. :unsure:

The Calling of the 144,000

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