The Calling of the 144,000

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guysmith

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Here is a novel idea. Is it possible that there might be literally 144,000 (literally) "redeemed" from the earth, found standing with Christ at His advent on (literally) Mount Zion in (literally) Jerusalem?

Revelation 14: 1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 

jerryjohnson

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Here is a novel idea. Is it possible that there might be literally 144,000 (literally) "redeemed" from the earth, found standing with Christ at His advent on (literally) Mount Zion in (literally) Jerusalem?

Revelation 14: 1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith


Just wondering, have you learned that song yet? It is written.
 

guysmith

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Helllo Jerry,

You stated: Just wondering, have you learned that song yet? It is written.

My response: I am not aware of the song yet. I do believe that the 144K will learn this song well into the GT period. Interesting that you brought this out. What are your thoughts on this song?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 

jerryjohnson

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Helllo Jerry,

You stated: Just wondering, have you learned that song yet? It is written.

My response: I am not aware of the song yet. I do believe that the 144K will learn this song well into the GT period. Interesting that you brought this out. What are your thoughts on this song?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

They sing the Song of Moses, take some time and study it.

I was going to post it here but think I will start it under a new topic.
 

guysmith

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Simply stated, the book of Daniel and all Bible prophecy concerns a "people" (Israel) and a "place" (the holy city of Jerusalem).

Daniel 9: 24 "SEVENTY 'SEVENS' ARE DECREED FOR YOUR PEOPLE AND YOUR HOLY CITY to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.

That said, notice how the following two scriptures also concern Israel (the people) and the holy city of Jerusalem / Mount Zion (the place).

Revelation 14: 1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

Zechariah 14: 1 A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided among you. 2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Now notice that Revelation 12 concerns Israel (the woman and the man-child) and "a place" where the woman is PROTECTED FOR THE 1260 DAYS of the GT.

Revelation 12: 1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

Based on the previous passages, where do you think this "place" (where Israel is going to be protected) will be?

This is the calling of the 144,000.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 

Irish

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Hi Guy,

Your right about prophecy concerning Gods people, Jerusalem or the Messiah. But not all are concerning all at the same time. If you believe all of Israel (12 tribes) has gathered and should return to Jerusalem, Then how does that fly in the face of Matthew 24 where it is stated to get out of Judea. ( I'm not saying you believe this, just making a point). Sometimes when a prophecy is concerning Israel the people, it is only talking about the people. If the people of Israel were to receive so many blessings, where would those people be today. If the 13 tribes (as they would be reckoned for a while ) migrated somewhere, where could it possibly be? It makes me think of the 13 colonies, just a thought. If they were to receive the former rain, who would deliver it and how would the seeds be broadcast? I find it humorous that there has been people looking for the lost tribes when quite possibly they are one of the members.


Irish
 

guysmith

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Hello Irish,

You stated: If you believe all of Israel (12 tribes) has gathered and should return to Jerusalem, Then how does that fly in the face of Matthew 24 where it is stated to get out of Judea.

My response: A better question would be: Why would Christ tell Christians to flee Jerusalem when the OT scriptures state that God is going to protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem? And the answer is: He didn't.

Zechariah 14 is a description of a fortress siege which is something not seen for hundreds of years. Ancient fortresses and castles operated as a means of protection from advancing armies. Unfortunatly, produce had to be grown outside the fortress wall where the laborers would work. When an armie would approach the laborers outside the wall would flee for the safety of the fortress. This is what Christ was saying in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24: 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

He is not telling them to flee Jerusalem. He is tell them to flee Judea which is the country side that surrounds Jerusalem (the old city is a fortress). Christ is tell the reader to flee to the mountains which Jerusalem is built on three Mountains (two of which is Mount Zion and Mount Moriah). Jerusalem is the highest point in the area. Go in any direction away from Jeursalem and you go down hill away from the mountains. So, basically, Christ is confirming the OT prophecies.

You stated: I find it humorous that there has been people looking for the lost tribes when quite possibly they are one of the members.

My response: I couldn't agree with you more.

Guy
 

Irish

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Jerusalem is in the region of Judea, when christ was asked about the end and he said there will not be one stone upon another, he was talking about the temple. It gets down to dispensational truths. Another example of this would be when he would send out disciples during one proclamation period, and tell them not to bring purse and scrip, and then in another part tell them to bring it. The situation had changed calling for a change in what was required.

Irish
 

guysmith

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Matthew 24: 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Isaiah 31: 4For thus hath the LORD spoken unto me, Like as the lion and the young lion roaring on his prey, when a multitude of shepherds is called forth against him, he will not be afraid of their voice, nor abase himself for the noise of them: so shall the LORD of hosts come down to fight for mount Zion, and for the hill thereof.
5As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it.

This is the calling of the 144,000.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 

Christina

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Guy you have been talking about this for over a month now I dont recall much argeement in fact many have tried to show you where you are misinterpting, or leaving out half the story, or mixing up your timeing,
yet you continue on searching the scripture to make them fit your idea
your really do not seem interested in whats really said, or what the word is telling you
you simply want to prove your own idea, so go to Jerusalem if you think thats going to save you
The 144,000 are sealed in Rev.7 .......they are called up after the Abomination to testify(Mark 13)

But they are already sealed and chosen before the 1st trumpet sounds the abomination takes place at the 6th trump
so if your not sealed before hand going to Jerusalem isnt going to matter ..... And God says he sends his angels out to gather the 144,000 from the four corners of the earth not Jerusalem .....
 

guysmith

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I know that we do not see eye-to-eye on this issue, but I would like to clarify my position.

First and foremost I would like to state that I am not trying to convince anyone into changing their view concerning this issue. Go back and review my posts and you will see that I have not tried to convince anyone that there wrong in their positions, including you.

There are, however, others out there (though few as they might be) which see Bible prophecy similar to my view. That said, my thread is established strickly as an effort to locate and network with these individuals. And these individuals (probably having been ostricized for having out of the ordinary Bible prophecy views) are also looking for other which have views similar to them. In effect, this effort (if successful) will slowly increase the membership of this forum.

As I have previously told you, you need only ask and I'll be gone. However, If this forum tolerates different viewpoints, I will continue posting.

The decision is yours.

Guy
 

Christina

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I know that we do not see eye-to-eye on this issue, but I would like to clarify my position.

First and foremost I would like to state that I am not trying to convince anyone into changing their view concerning this issue. Go back and review my posts and you will see that I have not tried to convince anyone that there wrong in their positions, including you.

There are, however, others out there (though few as they might be) which see Bible prophecy similar to my view. That said, my thread is established strickly as an effort to locate and network with these individuals. And these individuals (probably having been ostricized for having out of the ordinary Bible prophecy views) are also looking for other which have views similar to them. In effect, this effort (if successful) will slowly increase the membership of this forum.

As I have previously told you, you need only ask and I'll be gone. However, If this forum tolerates different viewpoints, I will continue posting.

The decision is yours.

Guy
and I have said that isnt my point I never said you trying to convince anyone of anything we were simply trying to point out where you are going wrong the fact others are wrong also doesnt make it right .. You refuse to see what the scripture says
and always come back with if you want me to leave I will,
no one ever has said or implied that I/we were just trying to show you where you misinterpting because we as followers of the word are supposed to admonish those who are mistaken thats whats written ......

So have a nice trip to Jersusalem
 

guysmith

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Matthew 24:15
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Whoso readeth, let him understand what?

Luke 21:36
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The next big question: is God (with the GT looming before us) providing endtime Christians with escape instructions/details?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 

jerryjohnson

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Matthew 24:15
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Whoso readeth, let him understand what?

Luke 21:36
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The next big question: is God (with the GT looming before us) providing endtime Christians with escape instructions/details?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith


Is God angry with you? If not, why worry. Was He able to protect the three Hebrew children thaqt were thrown in the fire? How about Daniel, was he harmed when placed in the lions den? The Great Tribulation is God's wrath and it will not harm those He loves. They will walk right though it without being touched.
 

guysmith

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Hello JJ,

You have raised several points I would like to address, however, before I do, I would like to clear one thing up.

You stated: The Great Tribulation is God's wrath and it will not harm those He loves.

My response: John states that during the 1260 of the GT that the A/C will be given the aurthority and power to kill all who do not take his (the A/C) mark. Are you stating that the A/C's killing of Christians during the GT is God's wrath?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 

Godfrey

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Hello JJ,

You have raised several points I would like to address, however, before I do, I would like to clear one thing up.

You stated: The Great Tribulation is God's wrath and it will not harm those He loves.

My response: John states that during the 1260 of the GT that the A/C will be given the aurthority and power to kill all who do not take his (the A/C) mark. Are you stating that the A/C's killing of Christians during the GT is God's wrath?

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

He giveth life and he taketh away.

In other words, he creates and destroys as he likes.

He is all powerful, and so there is no reasoning with god.

If you psychoanalyse his position towards humans based on the scriptures you will see that god is what would be called a sociopath, with periods of psychopathic behaviour.

These are bad things to be, therefore trying to rationalise god's actions on human terms is a tricky thing to do. It can only damage your faith.
 

guysmith

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Hello Godfree,

Amos 3:7 Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.

That said, here are a few revealed plans.

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors
whom the LORD calls.

Isaiah 4: 2 In that day the Branch of the LORD will be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the land will be the pride and glory of the survivors in Israel. 3 Those who are left in Zion, who remain in Jerusalem, will be called holy, all who are recorded among the living in Jerusalem.

Isaiah 31:4 This is what the LORD says to me: "As a lion growls, a great lion over his prey—
and though a whole band of shepherds is called together against him, he is not frightened by their shouts or disturbed by their clamor— so the LORD Almighty will come down
to do battle on Mount Zion and on its heights. 5 Like birds hovering overhead, the LORD Almighty will shield Jerusalem; he will shield it and deliver it, he will 'pass over' it and will rescue it."

This is the calling of the 144,000.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith
 

guysmith

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According to Joel and other OT prophets, the only Christians which will survive the GT and be alive at Christ's advent will be on Mount Zion in Jerusalem.

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

This is the calling of the 144,000
 

lecoop

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According to Joel and other OT prophets, the only Christians which will survive the GT and be alive at Christ's advent will be on Mount Zion in Jerusalem.

Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

This is the calling of the 144,000


Why do you keep saying this? What do you really mean? Why not lay it all out, so we can understand what you are saying and why you are saying it.

Coop

Is God angry with you? If not, why worry. Was He able to protect the three Hebrew children thaqt were thrown in the fire? How about Daniel, was he harmed when placed in the lions den? The Great Tribulation is God's wrath and it will not harm those He loves. They will walk right though it without being touched.


"Those days" of "great tribulation" are coming from Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. However, we can be sure that ever saint killed will INCREASE God's wrath, which will be happening right along with Satan's wrath, meaning, AT THE SAME TIME.

The Church of Jesus Christ won't BE HERE to need protecting. We are snatched away before the 70th week begins. But, those left behind, and/or new beleivers must face the days of great tribulation. Most will be put to death. It is written that the beast overcomes them.

Coop
 

jerryjohnson

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Why do you keep saying this? What do you really mean? Why not lay it all out, so we can understand what you are saying and why you are saying it.

Coop




"Those days" of "great tribulation" are coming from Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. However, we can be sure that ever saint killed will INCREASE God's wrath, which will be happening right along with Satan's wrath, meaning, AT THE SAME TIME.

The Church of Jesus Christ won't BE HERE to need protecting. We are snatched away before the 70th week begins. But, those left behind, and/or new beleivers must face the days of great tribulation. Most will be put to death. It is written that the beast overcomes them.

Coop



Sorry Coop, the "church" doesn't go anywhere.