Salvation Through Baptism ???

Mr C said:

You must watch these people who teach faith alone salvation.

Notice please -

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

If = Upon the condition that

That means if one does not confess he will not be saved. (Rom.10:9,10)

SEE POST #853

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It's works-salvationists that must be watched. IF can be a condition or a confirmation, depending on the context. Keep in mind that "lip service" confession from a heart that does not truly believe, but instead, trusts in works for salvation, does not count.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

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And there you go!... Showing what the Church taught BEFORE the apostacy of the Roman Catholic Church!

If history is proof as some assert, then should they not accept what John said before what people believed two to three centuries later?

Marymog said:

I didn’t need to figure it out....YOU DID!

Answer: It’s not a set amount!! (Post #853)

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When you beat around the bush and double speak, it's a little hard for me to figure out what you believe. Post #853?

mailmandan said:

I proved otherwise and you obviously swallowed the lie of salvation by water baptism.

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Baptism Saves US (1Peter 3:20,21) (Acts 85,12,13,26-40) (Mark 16:16)

Mr C said:

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth.. Being born again,

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And what is that "truth" that Peter said to "obey"? he tells us!

"Praise be to the God and Father of our LORD Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith-of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire-may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls." 1 Peter 1:3-9.

What is the "truth" that we are to obey? Faith in Jesus Christ=salvation!

mailmandan said:

It's works-salvationists that must be watched. IF can be a condition or a confirmation, depending on the context. Keep in mind that "lip service" confession from a heart that does not truly believe, but instead, trusts in works for salvation, does not count.

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God destroyed your position with only one word IF. (Rom. 10:9,10)

mailmandan said:

I often hear Campbellites use the example of Naaman being cleansed from leprosy while dipping in water as an example of having sins cleansed by water during baptism.

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It fails on many levels.

First, it is leprosy, not sins that are spoken of.
Secondly, the Hebrew does not say "dipped." When Naaman went to Elisha he believed that the prophet would "strike his hand upon the place, and recover the leper.” (v.11). The direction to wash, without anything more specific, would be based upon the directives established in the Old Covenant on purifications, that the washing/purification would only be limited to the parts affected. A true prophet of God would never tell someone to do otherwise. "The place" implies that Naaman was not inflicted all over, so it is unlikely that he "dipped" (more correctly... washed) anything more than what he was directed to do by the Law.
Thirdly, when you worship the water god, you just get your concordance and find as much water as you can gather, so you can get wet enough to save yourself! You deprive God the power to save, place it in the hands of men and the physical element of water as the means of salvation.

I have not seen where anyone here denies that someone should be baptized, or that they should be obedient to Christ. Obedience is the result of salvation, not the cause. We get baptized because we are already saved by grace through faith. To say otherwise is to have faith in water, not in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Faith and dependence on water and the work of men for salvation is "another gospel" which is no Gospel at all!

Mr C said:

Hey Mr. Lutheran.

You are wrong as usual.

One can tell WHEN one is saved by knowing WHEN our sins are forgiven (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8 ;5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16).

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Again, your faulty, biased interpretation which has already been refuted numerous times. We are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Mr. Lutheran? You sound juvenile.

Marymog said:

Let’s be VERY clear here: YOU do not decide who has misinterpreted Scripture.

If God has given you that authority you should not be on this forum.

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So you believe that believers are clueless about who has misinterpreted Scripture? It's not about giving only one person (or set of persons in one particular orginization) authority to interpret Scripture. (1 Corinthians 2:11-14)

Mr C said:

God destroyed your position with only one word IF. (Rom. 10:9,10)

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Not at all. Believers confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in their heart that God has raised Him from the dead. There is your IF. "Nominal" Christians/make believers at best give "lip service" confession with their mouth and merely believe in their head (and not in their heart) that God has raised Him from the dead.

Mr C said:

Baptism Saves US (1Peter 3:20,21) (Acts 85,12,13,26-40) (Mark 16:16)

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These passages of scripture have already been explained to you numerous times, but unfortunately, you just don't have eyes to see or ears to hear.

Good example above about how you isolate one part of one verse (that tells you what your itching ears want to hear) then ignore the rest. In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

*Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.

mailmandan said:

These passages of scripture have already been explained to you numerous times, but unfortunately, you just don't have eyes to see or ears to hear.

Good example above about how you isolate one part of one verse (that tells you what your itching ears want to hear) then ignore the rest. In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

*Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.

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You seem to think I cannot understand the scriptures on my own.

(1Peter 3:20,21) can easily be understood by most 10 yr olds.

The text seems very easy to understand.

God said when you read the scriptures you can understand it (Eph.3:3,4).


Water saved noah.

Baptism (in water) also saves us.



(Mark 16:16) confirms it.

Bel + Bapt = Saved


(Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) gives us a word picture of how it is done in real life.

See, it is simple.

mailmandan said:

Again, your faulty, biased interpretation which has already been refuted numerous times. We are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Mr. Lutheran? You sound juvenile.

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The Ephesians were baptized twice (Acts 19:1-6). (Ephesians Conversion)

Mr C said:

You seem to think I cannot understand the scriptures on my own.

(1Peter 3:20,21) can easily be understood by most 10 yr olds.

The text seems very easy to understand.

God said when you read the scriptures you can understand it (Eph.3:3,4).

Water saved noah.

Baptism (in water) also saves us.

(Mark 16:16) confirms it.

Bel + Bapt= Saved

(Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) gives us a word picture of how it is done in real life.

See, it is simple.

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You continue to isolate one part of your pet Bible verses, build doctrine on them, then ignore the rest. That’s not keeping it simple. That’s called flawed hermeneutics. John 3:15,16,16: Acts 10:43; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc.. could be understood by most 10 year olds. See, it is simple.

mailmandan said:

Again, your faulty, biased interpretation which has already been refuted numerous times. We are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9))

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Mr. Lutheran? You sound juvenile.

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This coming from someone who calls COC members (Campbellites).

I guess we know what that makes you. (juvenile)

From your mouth to God's ears.

Mr C said:

This coming from someone who calls COC members (Campbellites).

I guess we know what that makes you. (juvenile)

From your mouth to God's ears.

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Did I strike a nerve? Do you attend the church of Christ? The 5 step plan of salvation presented by the church of Christ has originated with men, namely THOMAS CAMPBELL, ALEXANDER CAMPBELL, WALTER SCOTT, and BARTON W. STONE. (Hence, the term, Campbellites). Did these men actually "restore" the gospel, the church, and true New Testament worship, as they claim, or did they simply create another sect bent on a more dogmatic sectarianism than others they renounced? On the other hand, I have never attended a Lutheran church, so Mr Lutheran is juvenile.

mailmandan said:

Did I strike a nerve? Do you attend the church of Christ? The 5 step plan of salvation presented by the church of Christ has originated with men, namely THOMAS CAMPBELL, ALEXANDER CAMPBELL, WALTER SCOTT, and BARTON W. STONE. (Hence, the term, Campbellites). Did these men actually "restore" the gospel, the church, and true New Testament worship, as they claim, or did they simply create another sect bent on a more dogmatic sectarianism than others they renounced? On the other hand, I have never attended a Lutheran church, so Mr Lutheran is juvenile.

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Grailhunter said:

There ya go Mary, Calvinist gibberish.
It is all a discretion because he worships a demon god that damns babies before they are born, so Satan will always have a Quota.
According to him his god has denied free-will from humanity.

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My God is the God of the Bible and you are blaspheming His name!!! You forget that everything He created in the beginning was "good". Psalm 58:3 is God's assessment of the wicked of this world that is...for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:10; 23)..

Grailhunter said:

That reality is a puppet show where we do nothing of our own will.

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O course we have free will. We can go to bed any time we wish, get up at seven and have whatever breakfast we like. Wear any color suit for work...etc, but to choose for God? NO WAY! (John 15:16)

Grailhunter said:

If they rape, murder, plunder they believe god predestined it.
Faith, love, compassion, prayer, grace, forgiveness, kindness, church attendance and good deeds does not matter or show character or true faith because they are all puppets on strings, every movement and thought being forced upon them, dummies of the satanic puppet master.

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If you have faith why exercise it? I would rather be a puppet and saved than be smart, like you and end up in hell.

Grailhunter said:

You will find that Judgment Day does not matter to them because they believe their god judged everyone good or evil before creation.

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Not quite for God knows the end from the beginning. He knows those whom He has elected to salvation. Judgement comes on the last day.

Today is still the day of salvation. There's still hope for you.

To God Be The Glory

Mr C said:

(Titus 2:11,12) Helps to teach us how God saves men by GRACE.

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation

hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us

that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,

we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


(Titus 2:11,12) shows how grace and mens obedience is married together to save man. (Heb.5:9 ; 11:6)



If man is not thinking and doing what God commands him to do man is not saved by GRACE.

We see this in Noah (Gen. 6:8,22), Naaman (2 Kings 5), The Jews (Acts 2:38,47), The Gentiles (Acts 10:48), The Samaritans (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40), The Corinthians (Acts 18:8), The Ephesians (Acts 19:1-6) and Paul in (Acts 22:16).

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Sorry, but a careful reading of Titus 2 will show that it does not speak of how God saves men by grace. That is clearly a misuse of scriptures.

Titus 2: 15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.

Tong
R0845

Tong2020 said:

As far as I know, salvation through faith is for mankind only. Devils/demons not included.

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The issue is "believe" and NOT who or isn't eligible.

BTW, faith is a gift!

To God Be The Glory