The Calling of the 144,000

lecoop · May 25, 2010

guysmith said:
The only Christians that will be alive, at the sounding of the fifth trumpet, are those with the seal of God on their foreheads (the 144K). If there were any other Christians alive at that time, then they too would be affected by this plague.

Guy, why would you write such a silly thing? First, the fifth trumpet is NOT DEADLY. Second, how do you know that the 5th trumpet will be a world wide event? Perhaps it will be confined to the Middle East, or an even smaller area. Next, the sealing written is not for Christians. What I read is that JEWS (Hebrews) are sealed. If there are born again believers, they will have the seal of the Holy Spirit inside. Finally, at the time of the 5th trumpet, well after the beginning of God's wrath, the church will be in heaven. So IF there are Gentile believers, they will be NEW Christians.

Revelation 9
1The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5They were not given power to kill them, but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

This is really quite simple. The Bible contains survival instructions for a relatively small group of Christians to be alive at Christ's advent. The Bible numbers this small group as the 144,000. It's that simple.

This is only theory, man's reasonings. It is NOT based on a good understanding of scripture. The truth is, these little beasties that sting like scorpions, DO NOT KILL. And they are not allowed to sting those who are sealed. It could be, Christians with the seal of the Holy Spirit in their hearts will also be off limits.

Now, if you have this desire to be alive at Christ's advent, to see His glorious return, then you need to rethink your position. If you do not want to see His glorious return, then just keep on doing what your doing.

If you belive the truth, a pretrib rapture, there is NO NEED to rethink - you are right. If you have believed prewrath or post trib, definitely RETHINK.

Coop

jerryjohnson said:
DW, I agree that we will be changed from our flesh bodies to our angelic bodies, at the sounding of the 7th trump when Christ returns. Just to add a little here take a look at my post in another topic:

For the readers: this is ERROR. Rev. chapter 11 is a MIDPOINT chapter, with most of what is written there taking place just before and after the abomination. (notice that the fleeing (after seeing the abomination) is 12:6) The 7th trumpet "marks" the exact midpoint. And Jesus CERTAINLY does not return to earth at the 7th trumpet. John shows us CLEARLY that He comes after the END of the 70th week, in chapter 19.

Coop

lecoop · May 25, 2010

lizz7711 said:
Interesting discussion! I believe that Yahweh will gather those "servants of YHWH" (Rev. 7:3) that
1) follow Yahweh's commandments, and 2) remain faithful to Yeshua. (Rev. 14:12)...and they will be gathered as Christina said, from wherever they are...and taken to the Holy City (AFTER it has been destroyed by the enemies by Yahweh's permission--see Ezek 22:20 "...so I will gather you in my anger and in my wrath, and I will put you in and melt you"). There's a good chance that Israel/Jerusalem is "mystery babylon", along with her whoring daughters (i.e. USA, England, etc), (Read Isaiah 1, Ezek 16). God loves Israel (aka his followers, whether Jew or Gentile)...but she/we are prostitutes who have worshipped other gods, denied his Messiah (Jews), profaned his holy name, and the "church" has abandoned his commandments...so there is much judgement to come. Repentance, faith in Yeshua, and turning to Him alone is what will rescue us, not where we are on the planet.

I think it most likely that the 144,000 are those believers scattered around the world who are saved by grace through faith in Yeshua, but who also know that as his followers we are to obey YHWH's commands to demonstrate our love for him...this is a growing movement of people knowing that we need to keep Saturday sabbath (4th commandment of the big 10, replaced by sun worship by the Roman Catholic church), observe the appointed Feasts (these are Yahweh's feasts, not the "jews" feasts), etc. All of His commands are not burdensome, and all can be summed up in the 2 that Yeshua cited, but few realize that to "love God with all of our heart etc..." is to OBEY his commands, not to pick and choose the few commands we deem worthy of obeying.

EVERYONE entering Jerusalem after God has restored it and Yeshua is reigning for 1000 years will enter by one of the 12 gates representing the 12 tribes...so, whether we are "Christian" believers who just don't know that we are actually part of one of the 12 tribes, or whether we are truly "gentile" believers...we'll be assigned to a gate. And as prophesied in the OT, those outside the city will travel there every year for the Feasts. And the temple will be there, carrying out cleansing sacrifices. Why would we be doing any of these things if there were all just "for the Jews" and "done away with"? Clearly, they were not done away with, and Yahweh said there would last forever, and Yeshua said not one iota of the "law" (meaning instructions/statutes) would be done away with UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY. I think we best believe our Messiah.

Can't wait to be in that restored, beautiful city...but i'll wait for Him to take me there, if I survive the GT.

Bless all of you --I hope to stop by again soon to keep following this discussion! BTW...can't believe there are actually people around here that believe in pre-trib rapture...how is that possible?? As someone mentioned on this thread...it's the wicked that will be taken, and the righteous left here or resurrected to be with Yeshua in his kingdom on earth. The "gathering of the saints" refers to the angels gathering us from the 4 corners of the earth to take us to Jerusalem!! What a ride that will be if we are blessed to be one of those chosen for that honor!

In Yahshua's Name,
Liz

First, Paul TELLS us we are gone before the week begins. Second, COMMON SENSE tells us, since it is DANIEL's 70th week, not Paul's 70th week. God's wrath is felt during the entire week, 7th seal to 7th vial. Therefore, we MUST be gone before the 7th seal; and indeed, we are, at the 6th seal, blood red moon rapture. Finally, John SHOWS the church in heaven before the 70th week begins (Rev. 7) OF COURSE it is possible to believe in the pretrib rapture - for that is truth and exactly what is about to happen. The wonder is that ALL don't believe it. OF COURSE it is the wicked that is taken, but that is at another time, at the END of the week when Jesus returns. The "gathering of the saints" refers to the angels gathering THE JEWS from the 4 corners of the earth (and from heaven) to take THEM to Jerusalem!! We come WITH HIM on white horses.

Coop

lecoop · May 25, 2010

jerryjohnson said:
Sorry Coop, the "church" doesn't go anywhere.

Well, if you believe that, it is certain YOU won't go. Christ is coming for those LOOKING for his coming.

Heb 9
28 ...and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

He is only going to appear to those who are LOOKING. The rapture will be by faith too, just as everything else
we get from God. If your faith is AGAINST it, you probably won't even hear the trumpet.

Coop

jerryjohnson · May 25, 2010

lecoop said:
Well, if you believe that, it is certain YOU won't go. Christ is coming for those LOOKING for his coming.

Heb 9
28 ...and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

He is only going to appear to those who are LOOKING. The rapture will be by faith too, just as everything else
we get from God. If your faith is AGAINST it, you probably won't even hear the trumpet.

Coop

It IS sure that I am not going anywhere, neither are you, if you are still alive then. Your whole "rapture thing" is a LIE! It doesn't matter if the majority of the Christian church believes in a rapture, IT IS A LIE! Preach it as much as you dare, you will be called to account for those you mislead.

Coop,
It was a lie when you first posted on it in "Posted 22 May 2008 - 09:19 PM" in a topic titled "The Rapture" and it is still a lie!
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/6366-the-rapture/page__st__50__p__46598__fromsearch__1&#entry46598

fivesense · May 30, 2010

lecoop said:
For those that can read and remember, we know this is not found ANYWHERE in scriptures; it is only conjecture or theory. What IS written is that they are "firistfruits."
If they preach the word at all, we don't know it.

Coop

You are correct. I am grateful to you for helping me to discover the truth about their activities. The formation of the 144 thousand is interesting. They are celebates, sing like champions on Zion for all the heavens and earth to hear, and come about in the political section of the Unveiling. That their mission is to preach salvation is unlikely. It is more likely that they will administer judgment and law throughout the earth without partiality and in faithfulness to God and Christ. The Lord will be present during this time, and judgment will have already begun.
fivesense

guysmith · Jun 5, 2010

At some point the 144K are marked with "the seal of God" on their foreheads.

Revelation 7
1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God." 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

This seal is not the seal that every Christian receives at acceptance, but rather, it is a special mark given exclusively to the 144K to protect them from the fifth trump plague.

Revelation 9
1The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. 2When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

The 144K are the only male Christians "redeemed from the earth."

Revelation 14
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

The 144K are the survivors, and Mount Zion is the location.

Joel 2:32
32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the LORD has said, among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

Guy

JarBreaker · Jun 5, 2010

fivesense said:
They are celebates,

Virgins here or "not DEFILED by women" means only that they did not whore after idols ... come out of her, that you do not partake of her sins and receive of her plagues.

This redemption only comes to a small number because there will not be many who die to self enough to rid themselves of all their idols, there were other groups of people at the marriage feast ...

Song of Sol. 6:8

guysmith · Jun 12, 2010

The Day of the LORD

Joel 2

28 "And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.

29 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days.

30 I will show wonders in the heavens
and on the earth,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.

31 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

32 And everyone who calls
on the name of the LORD will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as the LORD has said,
among the survivors
whom the LORD calls.

This is the calling of the 144,000

Guy

SWCan · Jun 16, 2010

lecoop said:
Well, if you believe that, it is certain YOU won't go. Christ is coming for those LOOKING for his coming.

Heb 9
28 ...and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

He is only going to appear to those who are LOOKING. The rapture will be by faith too, just as everything else
we get from God. If your faith is AGAINST it, you probably won't even hear the trumpet.

Coop

Sorry, I'm confused by your statements.

If I don't believe that the church will be pre-trib raptured then I(or anyone else who has faith in Jesus) am not looking for His coming and I(or anyone else who has faith in Jesus) won't be raptured?
Ever?
Or, are their two raptures?
One for pre-trib believers and one for those who don't believe pre-trib?
If there is only one rapture(pre-trib) and my "faith is against it" and I don't hear the trumpet what does that mean for my faith in Jesus?

It seems that you are equating faith in the pre-trib rapture with faith in Christ. Or, at the least, you seem to be elevating faith in the pre-trib rapture to a level where it is relevant to one's faith in Jesus and therefore relevant to one's salvation.

Faith against rapture> or = to Faith in Jesus?

If I'm incorrect then please clarify what you were saying. Thanks.

brionne · Jun 16, 2010

SWCan said:
Sorry, I'm confused by your statements.

If I don't believe that the church will be pre-trib raptured then I(or anyone else who has faith in Jesus) am not looking for His coming and I(or anyone else who has faith in Jesus) won't be raptured?
Ever?
Or, are their two raptures?
One for pre-trib believers and one for those who don't believe pre-trib?
If there is only one rapture(pre-trib) and my "faith is against it" and I don't hear the trumpet what does that mean for my faith in Jesus?

It seems that you are equating faith in the pre-trib rapture with faith in Christ. Or, at the least, you seem to be elevating faith in the pre-trib rapture to a level where it is relevant to one's faith in Jesus and therefore relevant to one's salvation.

Faith against rapture> or = to Faith in Jesus?

If I'm incorrect then please clarify what you were saying. Thanks.

anyone who thinks that the 144,000 are the only ones who recieve salvation are terribly mistaken.

Revelation 7:3-4 tells us that 144,000 will be sealed and the purpose of sealing these ones is so because they have been specially chosen to be rulers with Christ Revelation 14:1-3
they will rule over the entire earth....an earth full of saved individuals. Revelation 7:9-10
And the reason why they will be rulers with Christ is so that they can guide mankind back to perfection Revelation 7:17

These saved ones are the ones fortold to Abraham “all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves" Genesis 22:18

Gods purpose has always been to save 'all nations' from sin and death, not just 144,000 individuals.

guysmith · Jun 17, 2010

Hello SWcan,

Well said. I could not agree with you more in your observation. I am on several forums and on each forum there is at least one prebie which always tries to railroad every conversation to the pre-trib rapture. Their position seems to be that you have to believe in the pretribrapture to be part of it. And as you have observed, they promote the pretribrapture over Christ.

Hello pegg,

You stated: anyone who thinks that the 144,000 are the only ones who recieve salvation are terribly mistaken.

My response: First, I would like to clarify that salvation comes only in accepting Christ's sacrifice. That said, I agree with your above statement. However, at the resurrection, there will Christians resurrected from the dead and Christians which never tasted physical death. The significance of the 144K is that they will be the only Christians alive at Christ's advent.

Guy

brionne · Jun 17, 2010

guysmith said:
Hello SWcan,

Well said. I could not agree with you more in your observation. I am on several forums and on each forum there is at least one prebie which always tries to railroad every conversation to the pre-trib rapture. Their position seems to be that you have to believe in the pretribrapture to be part of it. And as you have observed, they promote the pretribrapture over Christ.

Hello pegg,

You stated: anyone who thinks that the 144,000 are the only ones who recieve salvation are terribly mistaken.

My response: First, I would like to clarify that salvation comes only in accepting Christ's sacrifice. That said, I agree with your above statement. However, at the resurrection, there will Christians resurrected from the dead and Christians which never tasted physical death. The significance of the 144K is that they will be the only Christians alive at Christ's advent.

Guy

well i'm not of the 144,000 so where will I be?

guysmith · Jun 18, 2010

Hello Pegg,

First I have to correct myself. The 144K will be the only male Christians alive at Christ's advent. The Bible identifies the female survivors as "the daughters of Zion."

You stated: well i'm not of the 144,000 so where will I be?

My response: It all depend on you. When the GT starts, all who do not take the mark-of-the-beast will be executed. God has established Mount Zion in Jerusalem as "the" place-of-safety in which He promises to feed and protect those inhabitants during the GT. If you are there during the GT, then you will be alive at Christ's advent. If are not there, on time, then you will have to experience the rule of the AC.

It is not that one can say that they are one of the 144K or daughters of Zion. No one knows at this time. However, if one arrives on Mount Zion, as instructed by the prophets, then one will be counted as part of this group.

Joel 2: 32 And everyone who calls
on the name of the LORD will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as the LORD has said,
among the survivors
whom the LORD calls.

Guy

brionne · Jun 18, 2010

guysmith said:
Hello Pegg,

First I have to correct myself. The 144K will be the only male Christians alive at Christ's advent. The Bible identifies the female survivors as "the daughters of Zion."

You stated: well i'm not of the 144,000 so where will I be?

My response: It all depend on you. When the GT starts, all who do not take the mark-of-the-beast will be executed. God has established Mount Zion in Jerusalem as "the" place-of-safety in which He promises to feed and protect those inhabitants during the GT. If you are there during the GT, then you will be alive at Christ's advent. If are not there, on time, then you will have to experience the rule of the AC.

It is not that one can say that they are one of the 144K or daughters of Zion. No one knows at this time. However, if one arrives on Mount Zion, as instructed by the prophets, then one will be counted as part of this group.

Joel 2: 32 And everyone who calls
on the name of the LORD will be saved;
for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
there will be deliverance,
as the LORD has said,
among the survivors
whom the LORD calls.

Guy

Well i certainly have no plans of flying over to jerusalem to stand on mount zion in the hope that I might be one of the daughters of zion and I doubt that the worlds population of christians would even fit on mount zion. Why would God put such an impossible requirement on Jesus diciples...how many christians can you fit on a plane lol....and what about poor christians who might not be able to afford the flight :blink:

no offence to you but I seriously doubt that this theology has any substance to it at all. The 144,000 are spoken of in revelation as standing with Jesus in heaven, yet you are using a the prophet Joel to say these ones are standing in jerusalem and on top of that they are all men of which the bible doesnt say if they are male or female. Also this says nothing of the faithful ancient ones of old such as Abraham, Abel, Noah, Sarah, King David etc...those people are not able to rise from their graves to head to mount zion so what hope is there for them?

And revelation speaks of a 'great crowd' of survivors as a separate group from the 144,000, so where do these ones fit in???

guysmith · Jul 17, 2010

Zechariah 12: 1 This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness," declares the LORD. "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the leaders of Judah will say in their hearts, 'The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the LORD Almighty is their God.'
6 "On that day I will make the leaders of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume right and left all the surrounding peoples, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.
7 "The LORD will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem's inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8 On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them. 9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.

This is the calling of the 144,000.

Guy

fivesense · Jul 17, 2010

guysmith said:
Hello SWcan,

Well said. I could not agree with you more in your observation. I am on several forums and on each forum there is at least one prebie which always tries to railroad every conversation to the pre-trib rapture. Their position seems to be that you have to believe in the pretribrapture to be part of it. And as you have observed, they promote the pretribrapture over Christ.

Hello pegg,

You stated: anyone who thinks that the 144,000 are the only ones who recieve salvation are terribly mistaken.

My response: First, I would like to clarify that salvation comes only in accepting Christ's sacrifice. That said, I agree with your above statement. However, at the resurrection, there will Christians resurrected from the dead and Christians which never tasted physical death. The significance of the 144K is that they will be the only Christians alive at Christ's advent.

Guy

Guy, I could not find that in the Scriptures, that salvation is dependent upon "accepting Christ's sacrifice". You are either in error, because it is not revealed to us in that way, or, I am unable to find such a statement made by Holy Spirit. Please direct me to this passage you quote from, so I may be enlightened.

fivesense

pastorlesofm · Jul 17, 2010

l Thessa;onians 4:13-18,KJV. But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren , concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, evenas others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so then also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Question: What was Paul's response to the jailer, when he asked Paul ; "What must I do to be saved?" ??

The Lord made the message of salvation so simple for the most uneducated to the greatly educated to understand. Man insists on making it hard to understand nd to achieve. The Cross is the bridge for man to reconnect with the Lord and recieve His redemption and His mercy. With out the way to and through the Cross there can be no redemption. When Jesus cried out to God "It is finished", meant by the Cross we were redeemed and nothing else had to be done. It is finished, over, done. Man seems to have a hard time accepting the Gift of God, insists on adding through works and religion. Any church or faith that says you need another book , besides the Word of God, high tail it right out of that church. This is your first hint that it is either a cult or religion. Christ is not about religion but a personal relationship. Personal relationship with Jesus Christ is what separates the christian from religion. f Christians would just take God at His Word and apply faith to Him and in Him , there would be no confusion. there are bumper stickers I've noticed that say; "God said it, I believe it and that is that". Oh if Christians could get that simple statement in their hearts by faith in Jesus Christ, God could use them in such a mighty way. There are more "therefores" in the Bible than "Buts". Love You All in Jesus Name.

rob · Jul 29, 2010

Jon-Marc said:
According to Rev. 7:4-8, the 144,000 are all Jewish people from the 12 tribes of Israel. In verse 9 of that chapter it says, "After this I beheld, and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in the hands."

(1) The 144,000 are ALL and ONLY of the 12 tribes of Israel.
(2) Their will be a "multitude, which no man can number" of those who are redeemed. That means there will be FAR more than a mere 144,000 among the saved.

guysmith · Aug 7, 2010

Luke 21
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Revelation 14
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders.No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.

This is the calling of the 144,000

Guy

guysmith · Nov 9, 2010

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

The Calling of the 144,000

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