How could the Messiah be sinless?

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DNB

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Nope, wrong!
" it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins,” Hebrews 10:4The real goal of the sin offering was ritual purification. When it comes to the Levitical sacrifice itself, the point was not absolution, but acceptability for entering God’s presence.
Intentional violations of the moral law of God fell into two broad categories and were dealt with accordingly: those for which there was no remedy, resulting in capital punishment, and those for which restitution was required. For the latter, Old Testament law called for reparations to victims to restore the offender.
Old Testament sacrifices could not provide release from spiritual and moral guilt.

In fact one was justified under the old covenant by faith, not by the sacrificial system.
Well said, but I don't believe correct. in other words, 'it is impossible for the blood of bull and goats to take away sins' permanently. Which is why they had to be offered perpetually. This was the author of Hebrews point, that Christ's final sacrifice covered future sins, the Levitical oblations were only as good until one's next sin. Plus, there were prescriptions for the unknown sins, which would include any action considered offensive to God. Yes, morality cannot be legislated, but Yom Kippur was just exactly for that. The Day of Atonement was just that, propitiation with God.
And, purification was done prior to the sacrifice. The priests were to be pure before ministering on the altar. The Israelites were mandated to be pure prior to assembling before God, the Sacrifices were not conducted yet as far as sin offering is concerned.

Faith was not the means to salvation during the Old Covenant, just by the fact that there were two very distinct Covenants. Those who follow the Law, shall live by them, that is, find life through them. David extolled the virtues of the Law as being perfect, and as being Israel's righteousness. They were saved by the Law for the appointed time, in order to stress the stringent demands that God establishes as perfection. Abraham's faith was a forerunner to what was to come, but was not the mandate during the implementation of the Levitical Law. This is why Paul never claims to have faith during his pharisaic period, he only speaks of his exemplary observance of the Law of works.
If faith saved during the time of the Mosaic Law, then there would be no need for a new Law.
 
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DNB

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I did not note the error. I simply noted that someones method might be "fine", but the results wrong, if they got some wrong information - (that's my intent anyway)

like when someone said pia was someone's wife, and without realizing it was a wrong fact, I may have repeated it in a couple posts today. It did look to me from different posts and even another forum that she was his wife.... I did not know better.

Now there is a resurgence of the arian heresy, which surprises me a lot -
the heresy claiming that Jesus is not God. This is totally a heresy, and opposed to all Scripture, as noted centuries ago and thru history up to the present time (I thought)....

Did someone decide heresy is okay today ?
Exegesis, I believe, is the art of interpretation. If someone has mistaken as to who Pia is married to, it is because they have deciphered the information incorrectly, whether a lie was told or not. Because, it is up to the exegete to determine reliable sources (eg: extra-biblical works, apocryphal, dubious sources, etc..).
Arianism does not necessarily include all anti-trinitarianism or anti-deification of men. Jesus Christ is solely a creature, only God is the Father. The Holy Spirit is a gift from God to man, it is not an autonomous person.
 

Joseph77

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Exegesis, I believe, is the art of interpretation.
( read these few words and stopped )
As far as Scripture says, such interpretation is not permitted.

If you mean translation, that is not only permitted, it is necessary.

Most people everywhere never see this distinction, so much like the days of Noah , eh ?
 

Joseph77

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Arianism does not necessarily include all anti-trinitarianism or anti-deification of men. Jesus Christ is solely a creature, only God is the Father.
Arianism , the heresy , is simply as I said - claiming Jesus is created.

It has nothing to do necessarily with anti-trinitarianism nor anti-deification of men. (unless in some cults or sects or places in the world that is part of more errors together.
 

DNB

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( read these few words and stopped )
As far as Scripture says, such interpretation is not permitted.

If you mean translation, that is not only permitted, it is necessary.

Most people everywhere never see this distinction, so much like the days of Noah , eh ?
I meant interpretation.
 

Joseph77

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2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no ...
biblehub.com/2_peter/1-20.htm] 2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one's own interpretation.
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from the prophet's own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.…


2 PETER 1:20 KJV "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of ...
kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Peter-1-20/
Being conscious in the first place that no man by himself may give a special sense to the words of the prophets. - Basic English Bible knowing this first, that [the scope of] no prophecy of scripture is had from its own particular interpretation, - Darby Bible Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


2 Peter 1:21 For no prophecy was ever brought ... - Bible Hub
biblehub.com/2_peter/1-21.htm
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
 

DNB

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Arianism , the heresy , is simply as I said - claiming Jesus is created.

It has nothing to do necessarily with anti-trinitarianism nor anti-deification of men. (unless in some cults or sects or places in the world that is part of more errors together.
I believe that JW's are considered the modern day Arians. I may have explained myself incorrectly, or was unclear on the previous post. THat is, I understand that JW's coinsider Jesus to be a god, out of many, and that we can attain such a state also?
I denounce this entirely, and trinitarianism, and any deification of Jesus Christ.
 

DNB

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2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no ...
biblehub.com/2_peter/1-20.htm] 2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one's own interpretation.
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from the prophet's own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever brought forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.…


2 PETER 1:20 KJV "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of ...
kingjamesbibleonline.org/2-Peter-1-20/
Being conscious in the first place that no man by himself may give a special sense to the words of the prophets. - Basic English Bible knowing this first, that [the scope of] no prophecy of scripture is had from its own particular interpretation, - Darby Bible Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


2 Peter 1:21 For no prophecy was ever brought ... - Bible Hub
biblehub.com/2_peter/1-21.htm
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Every single book, chapter, paragraph, sentence and word in the Bible, must be interpreted. Only an incompetent fool would say otherwise.
 

Joseph77

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Every single book, chapter, paragraph, sentence and word in the Bible, must be interpreted. Only an incompetent fool would say otherwise.
No - that is not the way you mean it - whatever however you are using the word "interpret" is not what Scripture means when it is written that no Word of Scripture is of private interpretation. i.e. not of man's initiative, not of man as origin - rather all from the Father, as He Says.

Then also, when the Father REVEALS His Wisdom to a man, that is also not interpretation by the man, but by God.
Like the DREAMS - Joseph and Daniel noted that the interpretation (meaning) of DREAMS belong to God.
 

DNB

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No - that is not the way you mean it - whatever however you are using the word "interpret" is not what Scripture means when it is written that no Word of Scripture is of private interpretation. i.e. not of man's initiative, not of man as origin - rather all from the Father, as He Says.

Then also, when the Father REVEALS His Wisdom to a man, that is also not interpretation by the man, but by God.
Like the DREAMS - Joseph and Daniel noted that the interpretation (meaning) of DREAMS belong to God.
Sorry, did I forget to mention that, every single book, chapter, paragraph, sentence and word in the Bible, must be interpreted. Only an incompetent fool would say otherwise.
 

Joseph77

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Sorry, did I forget to mention that, every single book, chapter, paragraph, sentence and word in the Bible, must be interpreted. Only an incompetent fool would say otherwise.
No, that's what you said...... your meaning of interpretation is different than God's Meaning in Scripture -
anyone who wants to know what God means,
must receive it from the Father in heaven .... no man can figure it out... no natural mind can understand anything ture or spiritual. (as God's Word says clearly)
 

justbyfaith

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It is not what the Bible teaches. No where are the terms god-man, God the Son, incarnate, two-in-one natures, ... found in the Bible.
However, Jesus is the Creator of all things....something that you denied but which the Bible teaches.
 

mjrhealth

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As for you, my exhortation to you is that devils often come attempting to mimic the voice of Jesus.
So you dont trust Jesus. Do you think the devil would tell someone that Jesus died on the cross for them, but that is why so few are led by the Spirit, no faith.

Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
 
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Tong2020

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Animals may kill indiscriminately, even a human, without being held accountable. This is because they are not created in the image of God, and thus, do not have a conscience to know right from wrong. They may even do something that they know will will elicit disapproval from their master, or from another animal, and yet, no crime. Image of God means constitution, not moral status.
I still think that you're insane!
Unending unrestrained habitual Ad Hominem....Wow such character...... Christian?

You said "Animals may kill indiscriminately, even a human, without being held accountable. This is because they are not created in the image of God, and thus, do not have a conscience to know right from wrong." That is obviously your own conclusive opinion coming from human wisdom, not scriptures. Nowhere in scriptures that is taught. For the requiring of the beast's life when it kills a man only shows that the beast is punished. And for what and why? We are not told in scriptures. You can speculate all you want using your human wisdom, but the truth remains, scriptures does not say.

What is between the beast and God, scriptures don't say. But this, scriptures says regarding the beast relative to the killing of man:

Genesis 9:5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man.

You said "Image of God means constitution, not moral status." That's your POV. I wonder if the flesh is part of the constitution you refer to there. But it seems to me that part of the constitution relative to the image of God that you refer there is found in this statement you made in one of your posts and I quote "No other creature has the moral or spiritual awareness, unless they are created in God's image." Is that not relating to moral status or is that constitution?

According to your thinking and POV, those born with abnormalities such as to not have moral and spiritual awareness would then be not in the image of God. And the infants and little children would likewise then be not in the image of God until the time they've grown to have moral and spiritual awareness. So, your doctrine is flawed and problematic.

As I said, look at Jesus if you want to know about the image of God in man, for scriptures teach that Jesus was a man and is the image of God.

Tong
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Tong2020

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the animal was killed because it posed a continuous threat. For even when it killed another beast, and was know to gorge other animals, it was put to death. But, they were not guilty out in the wild, as a man would still be and even hunted down (city of refuge). But the animal was put down when it threatened a man's property or livelihood.
As I said, if we go with scriptures, in Genesis 9:5, the beast that killed a man, its life is required, which only tells us that the man is a special creature, unique from the rest. Such can be learned in Genesis 1 and 2, as God made mankind (in contrast to his making of other creature kind) in his own image and gave him dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.

The requiring of the beast's life when it kills a man only shows that the beast is punished. And for what and why? We are not told in scriptures. We can speculate all we want using human wisdom, but the truth remains, scriptures does not say.

Tong
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Tong2020

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Did I not repeatedly tell you that if your conclusion makes no sense, then your exegesis is wrong?
But even if you did, human wisdom and sense is not what determines the truth nor is the means to understand the things of the Spirit of God. For the things of the Spirit of God are spiritually discerned.

One may be the greatest exegete, but without God giving him spiritual understanding, no exegesis of him will have him understand and see the truth.

Tong
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