I ask the Trinitarians and the Jehovah's Witnesses...

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Davy

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Look up the word Christ. You either lied in this post, or have an incompetent understanding of salvation and perdition?

So you do not believe Jesus of Nazareth is God The Savior, which is the Old Testament meaning of Jesus' name "Immanuel"?

Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, 'God with us.'"

KJV
 
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mjrhealth

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So you do not believe Jesus of Nazareth is God The Savior, which is the Old Testament meaning of Jesus' name "Immanuel"?

Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, 'God with us.'"

KJV
No because HE is not, he is Jesus the Son of God. Mistaken identity can cause all sorts of Issues in a court of Law, Prosecutor asks you, "Did Jesus die for you or God??", If you answer God, than off to prison you go, as you denied Christ.

Php_2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
 

mjrhealth

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It means denying that God came in the flesh
Doesnt say that, adding to,

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 

Joseph77

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"Study Bible
Belief and Unbelief
…47As for anyone who hears My words and does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not receive My words: The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it.…
Berean Study Bible · Download"

"Study Bible
The Ministry of the Twelve
…14And if anyone will not welcome you or heed your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. 15Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16Behold, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.…
Berean Study Bible · Download"
 

Joseph77

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Important:
Jesus always did as the Father directed Him to Do.
He trained His disciples to Do Likewise.
 
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DNB

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So you do not believe Jesus of Nazareth is God The Savior, which is the Old Testament meaning of Jesus' name "Immanuel"?

Matt 1:21-23
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, 'God with us.'"

KJV
Only fools think that Immanuel is an affirmation of Jesus' deity. Look up the word theophory.
No, of course i do not believe that Jesus is God, or that anyone or anything is God, except God the Father.
 
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Joseph77

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The Arian heresy, for over a thousand years I think, has claimed that Jesus was created by God,
that He was not Eternally God Himself with the Father (Echad), as the Ekklesia have always known.
 

DNB

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The Arian heresy, for over a thousand years I think, has claimed that Jesus was created by God,
that He was not Eternally God Himself with the Father (Echad), as the Ekklesia have always known.
It is the deification of man, on any level, that is pagan and heretical. Even Arius was incorrect. Jesus was creature from inception in 4BC, until now. That is why he was able to be killed, and had to put his trust in God to be raised to life again . Otherwise, our faith is void if to date, God has only raised Himself from the dead. Of which, death can never retain Him, which is why the Sacrifice and Atonement are absurd with a god-man saviour.
 
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Joseph77

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It is the deification of man, on any level, that is pagan and heretical. Even Arius was incorrect. Jesus was creature from inception in 4BC, until now. That is why he was able to be killed, and had to put his trust in God to be raised to life again . Otherwise, our faith is void if to date, God has only raised Himself from the dead. Of which, death can never retain Him, which is why the Sacrifice and Atonement are absurd with a god-man saviour.
I had forgotten the name of the heresy - but looking it up, (posted the definition), it was and is the know and proven heresy that Jesus was created for mankinds salvation, or something to that effect,

as if Jesus was created instead of as written UNcreated,
with no beginning, (self-existent?) ,
Jesus was always , always is, and always will be,
Perfect and Perfectly Echad (One) with the Father always...
 

DNB

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I had forgotten the name of the heresy - but looking it up, (posted the definition), it was and is the know and proven heresy that Jesus was created for mankinds salvation, or something to that effect,

as if Jesus was created instead of as written UNcreated,
with no beginning, (self-existent?) ,
Jesus was always , always is, and always will be,
Perfect and Perfectly Echad (One) with the Father always...
No such word as uncreated in the Bible.
 

Joseph77

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No such word as uncreated in the Bible.
So? That statement (if it is a fact even), is meaningless and does not change Scripture .
Jesus is without beginning, and without end,
perfectly sharing the glory of the Father eternally past, present, and eternally future with no end and no change.
 
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Joseph77

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This shows that your faith is ALREADY void. See John 1:1.
Yes. I did not find the name of the arian heresy until today - for someone else.
It is a very old heresy, and never because something true - it is still heresy.
(all new information today, so to speak - the technical details/ name of the heresy, may be different somewhere, some time... but as of all I know today - the arian heresy is what some members are posting from or about, even if they 'hide it'/ don't talk about it in most of their posts - it is still like anti-freeze to a cat - toxic to faith) ....
 

DNB

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This shows that your faith is ALREADY void. See John 1:1.
Antanaclasis. I believe that the poetic intent is John's writing style is quite evident, ...as is typical of all his literature. Thus, obligating the reader to avoid hyper-literal interpretations of his writings. Plus, the thought of his message itself, is incoherent with simply a superficial reading of the text. The misinterpretation arises often when trinitarians cannot seem to keep their perceived distinctions as such. They speak of God collectively as three, and the Father, Son and Spirit as individual persons, but then disregard these classifications when supplying their proof text. The Word was in the beginning, was God, was also with God, and became flesh (paraphrase). Such phraseology even defies trinitarian theology. Thus, this is clearly in the literary form of antanaclasis, and therefore, requires a much more profound understanding of its meaning (avoiding all esoteric and incomprehensible conclusions) .
 
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DNB

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So? That statement (if it is a fact even), is meaningless and does not change Scripture .
Jesus is without beginning, and without end,
perfectly sharing the glory of the Father eternally past, present, and eternally future with no end and no change.
Be careful what you profess Joseph. You may have to explain yourself on Judgement Day. And if you think that just because the implausible and un-Biblical gets accepted with man, God and Jesus will be much harder to convince, ...and may even take offense to it.
 

Joseph77

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By definition, over a thousand years, the arian heresy is the thought or belief that Jesus was created for man's salvation, or that Jesus was created at all ? .... He always was. Never a moment in time nor outside of time that Jesus did not exist.

If someone told you a myth/ story/ heresy denying this - look and look and look to find the source of them saying that.
It is totally in error. (the source is, and anyone who repeats it as if truth) ....
 

mjrhealth

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the arian heresy is the thought or belief that Jesus was created for man's salvation

HE was,

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Rom_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

That was His sole purpose on this earth to redeem mankind back to God,

It is totally in error. (the source is, and anyone who repeats it as if truth) ....

lot of that going around
 

Cooper

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Only fools think that Immanuel is an affirmation of Jesus' deity. Look up the word theophory.
No, of course i do not believe that Jesus is God, or that anyone or anything is God, except God the Father.
Jesus is the Father made visible. How else do you think the Spirit of the living God is going to reveal himself to a people who are far away from him. They killed the prophets and turned to other gods. What the Father did was a game changer.
.
 
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Davy

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No because HE is not, he is Jesus the Son of God. Mistaken identity can cause all sorts of Issues in a court of Law, Prosecutor asks you, "Did Jesus die for you or God??", If you answer God, than off to prison you go, as you denied Christ.

Php_2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Well, I guess that settles it, you do not understand that ONLY God can remit our sins. And that means Jesus Christ as 'God with us' like His name Immanuel means.
 
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Davy

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Doesnt say that, adding to,

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

It's not adding to, because when John declares the belief that Jesus is "the Christ" he isn't declaring Jesus is just some flesh born dude like you or me. Peter declared the same thing as John, which Jesus showed is a specific belief pointing to God The Savior.

Matt 16:15-17
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father Which is in heaven."
KJV


Apostle Paul called those in Christ "sons of God"; John did too. But to be called "the Christ" that has special meaning, and only applies to God The Son.
 
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