Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Christ was the fulfillment of the law...but no need to go back to it.....His Grace...His teaching....His example...is enough.
The relationship between faith and works.
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2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
When our first parents transgressed they came at once under desert of penalty. The Lord visited the garden but instead of then and there pronouncing their doom, and casting them forever away from His presence, He talked to them of a certain seed of the woman that should bruise the serpent’s head.
The curse, descending first upon the soil, and secondarily upon the man; first upon the serpent, and more gently on the woman, whose very pain would bring forth deliverance for the race and vengeance on the enemy.
The man and the woman each had a separate sentence, but how mild were these sentences compared with what they might have been. How joyful is the fact that over all, there was the sparing hand of G_D letting them live, and His voice promising them ultimate deliverance.
Would the Lord have spared them if He had not meant to show mercy? Would He not have crushed a sinful race even in its egg, and have blotted out forever those of whom not long after it repented Him that He had made them upon the earth?
Assuredly the Lord meant pardon when He tarried to inquire, “Adam, where are you?” In the morning of human history the Lord’s long-suffering displayed itself and gave promise of larger grace. The same is true of you and of me.
If G_D had no pardons would He not long ago have cut us down as cumberers of the ground? We sinned early in life, perhaps we sinned grossly in our youthful days, doing evil with great wantonness and willfulness, according to our obstinate hearts. Why did He not then say, “I will take these away, they will only go from bad to worse, and they will infect others with their vices. Therefore will I root them out lest they become injurious to those about them and a curse to future generations”?
But no, even a blasphemer was not smitten to death when he imprecated damnation upon himself. The Sabbath-breaker was not cut down when he made the Lord’s holy day to be an opportunity for wickedness. He that lied was not made a dreadful example of judgment like Ananias and Sapphira.
Why is not everyone to oppose Him, not swallowed up quickly like Korah, Dathan and Abiram. Why have they been spared to this day, to what end? Surely, the long-suffering of The Lord is repentance, and repentance is mercy. The Lord waits long because He wills not the death of any, but that they turn to Him.
Why did The Lord institute the ceremonial law if there were no ways of pardoning transgression?
Why the bullocks and the lambs offered in sacrifice? Why the shedding of blood if He did not intend to blot out sin? Why the burnt offerings in which The Lord accepted man’s gift, if man could not be accepted? Assuredly He could not be accepted if regarded as guilty.
Why the peace offering in which The Lord feasted with the offerer and the two united in feeding upon the one sacrifice? How could this be unless He intended to forgive and enter into fellowship with men?
Again, why was there a tabernacle for Him to dwell with His people if He would not forgive their iniquities? How could He dwell with unforgiven men? Why was there a mercy seat? Why was there a high priest ordained from among men who should enter into the holy place, and make a typical atonement?
Why the scapegoat to take away sin in symbol, if sin cannot be taken away in reality? Why the burning of the offering outside the gate in order that sin might be put away from The Lord’s people, if it could not be put away?
Certainly, the evident design of the whole Mosaic economy was to reveal to man the existence of mercy in the heart of God, and the effectual operation of that mercy in washing away sin.
Furthermore, if there were no forgiveness of sin why has the Lord given to sinful men exhortations to repent?
Why does the Lord say, “Turn you to your G_D: keep mercy and judgment and wait upon The Lord continually”?
Why does He cry, “Therefore also now, says the Lord, turn you even to Me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: and rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the Lord your G_D”? Is it not because it can be added, “for He is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repents Him of the evil”?
Is it not true, even as Elihu said, “He looks upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not; He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light”?
If sin could not be pardoned why under the gospel are we bid to urge men to repent of sin, to confess their sins, and to forsake them? Might not the Lord have said, ‘Let them alone’?
John the Baptist’s cry of “Repent!” is a note of hope to transgressors. The times of their ignorance, The Lord winked at, but now under gospel rule, He commands all men everywhere to repent, because repentance has the promise of the blotting out of sin.
The curse, descending first upon the soil, and secondarily upon the man; first upon the serpent, and more gently on the woman, whose very pain would bring forth deliverance for the race and vengeance on the enemy.
The man and the woman each had a separate sentence, but how mild were these sentences compared with what they might have been. How joyful is the fact that over all, there was the sparing hand of G_D letting them live, and His voice promising them ultimate deliverance.
Would the Lord have spared them if He had not meant to show mercy? Would He not have crushed a sinful race even in its egg, and have blotted out forever those of whom not long after it repented Him that He had made them upon the earth?
Assuredly the Lord meant pardon when He tarried to inquire, “Adam, where are you?” In the morning of human history the Lord’s long-suffering displayed itself and gave promise of larger grace. The same is true of you and of me.
If G_D had no pardons would He not long ago have cut us down as cumberers of the ground? We sinned early in life, perhaps we sinned grossly in our youthful days, doing evil with great wantonness and willfulness, according to our obstinate hearts. Why did He not then say, “I will take these away, they will only go from bad to worse, and they will infect others with their vices. Therefore will I root them out lest they become injurious to those about them and a curse to future generations”?
But no, even a blasphemer was not smitten to death when he imprecated damnation upon himself. The Sabbath-breaker was not cut down when he made the Lord’s holy day to be an opportunity for wickedness. He that lied was not made a dreadful example of judgment like Ananias and Sapphira.
Why is not everyone to oppose Him, not swallowed up quickly like Korah, Dathan and Abiram. Why have they been spared to this day, to what end? Surely, the long-suffering of The Lord is repentance, and repentance is mercy. The Lord waits long because He wills not the death of any, but that they turn to Him.
Why did The Lord institute the ceremonial law if there were no ways of pardoning transgression?
Why the bullocks and the lambs offered in sacrifice? Why the shedding of blood if He did not intend to blot out sin? Why the burnt offerings in which The Lord accepted man’s gift, if man could not be accepted? Assuredly He could not be accepted if regarded as guilty.
Why the peace offering in which The Lord feasted with the offerer and the two united in feeding upon the one sacrifice? How could this be unless He intended to forgive and enter into fellowship with men?
Again, why was there a tabernacle for Him to dwell with His people if He would not forgive their iniquities? How could He dwell with unforgiven men? Why was there a mercy seat? Why was there a high priest ordained from among men who should enter into the holy place, and make a typical atonement?
Why the scapegoat to take away sin in symbol, if sin cannot be taken away in reality? Why the burning of the offering outside the gate in order that sin might be put away from The Lord’s people, if it could not be put away?
Certainly, the evident design of the whole Mosaic economy was to reveal to man the existence of mercy in the heart of God, and the effectual operation of that mercy in washing away sin.
Furthermore, if there were no forgiveness of sin why has the Lord given to sinful men exhortations to repent?
Why does the Lord say, “Turn you to your G_D: keep mercy and judgment and wait upon The Lord continually”?
Why does He cry, “Therefore also now, says the Lord, turn you even to Me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: and rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the Lord your G_D”? Is it not because it can be added, “for He is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repents Him of the evil”?
Is it not true, even as Elihu said, “He looks upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not; He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light”?
If sin could not be pardoned why under the gospel are we bid to urge men to repent of sin, to confess their sins, and to forsake them? Might not the Lord have said, ‘Let them alone’?
John the Baptist’s cry of “Repent!” is a note of hope to transgressors. The times of their ignorance, The Lord winked at, but now under gospel rule, He commands all men everywhere to repent, because repentance has the promise of the blotting out of sin.
He fulfills the righteousness of the law within us (see 1 John 3:4, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 3:9).
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What you say is all true, but I am not sure your post is actually related to salvation (justification) by faith vs salvation (justification) by works.
That is the precise meaning of "justified". God declares the guilty sinner as being as righteous as Christ. That is a concept that boggles the mind.
Being justified* freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (Rom 3:24)
Strong's Concordance (1344)
dikaioó: to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Original Word: δικαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dikaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yo'-o)
Definition: to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Usage: I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Amen! Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
We are saved UNTO/FOR good works, but NOT BY good works.
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
That was actually spurgeon lol. I was making fun of all the long posts on these forums. However, I do believe every word of it
what’s wrong with repenting? https://spurgeongems.org/sermon/chs1685.pdf
I had a public debate with some Hebrew roots friends.
We went over the 613(I printed a copy for everyone in the room).
We ended up checking them off one at a time with a yes, no or maybe, as per if they could still be kept or not.
At the end, I quoted the verse, "if we offend in one Law, we offend in all".
Their speech betrayed themselves.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
That an imperfect person can be declared righteous by faith (in which the apostle Paul described faith as "the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen" at Heb 11:1), is seen at what the apostle Paul wrote to the Roman Christians concerning those who become ' joint-heirs with the Christ ': "For those who live according to the flesh (or allow fleshly desires to take precedence) set their minds on the things of the flesh (such as allowing sexual desire to cause a man [or in some cases, a woman] to "keep on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her" that is not his wife, Matt 5:28, or cultivating a strong desire for material things, such as a new or "fancy" car, a "nice" home, expensive jewelry so as to look "fabulous", wanting to receive "glory" from men, etc, John 5:42, 44; 1 Thess 2:6; not being fully focused on pleasing God, Luke 9:62; see also Prov 25:27 that says: "It is not good to eat too much honey, nor is it glorious to seek one's own glory"), but those who live according to the spirit (allowing God's spirit to guide a person, as David did [2 Sam 23:2], though he failed to do so with regard to Bathsheba, allowing sexual desire to overtake him, 2 Sam 11:2-4; 1 Kings 15:5), on the things of the spirit".(Rom 8:5; Note: God's personal name is Jehovah, Ps 83:18)
Paul now establishes that a person who has been chosen by Jehovah God as a ' joint-heir with Christ '(Rom 8:17; 2 Thess 2:13), that these ones are "declared righteous" like Jesus was, for unless they were, then they would not be qualified to be members of God's Kingdom (2 Thess 1:5) and receive a resurrection from the dead to become immortal spirit "sons of God"(1 Cor 15:50-57), saying: "We know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God, those who are the ones called according to his purpose (or the 144,000 chosen from among both the Jews and the nations for God's Kingdom, Rev 5:9, 10), because those whom he gave his first recognition (which is the "offspring" of the "woman" at Gen 3:15, which "woman" is the body of loyal angels from which came the first "son" or Jesus Christ for God's Kingdom, and which 144,000 other "sons" from the earth are added as her "children" [Rev 14:1-3], Isa 54:1, 2; see also Gal 4:26 whereby Paul says that this "woman" is "our mother" and then quotes Isaiah 54:1 at verse 27) he also foreordained (as a collective body in advance, not individual persons, for each member of God's Kingdom must prove loyal till death to receive "the crown of life", Rev 2:10, for "many are invited, but few chosen", Matt 22:14) to be patterned after the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn (or the one chosen first and anointed as a member of God's Kingdom, Matt 3:16, 17, who set the perfect "pattern" to follow, 1 Pet 2:21) among many brothers.(Eph 1:13, 14) Moreover, those whom he foreordained are the ones he also called (or chose to serve as "a kingdom, priests to his (or Jesus) God and Father", Rev 1:6); and those whom he called are the ones he also declared to be righteous (Greek lemma [or base word] dikaioo that means "to render just or innocent", Strong's Concordance). Finally those whom he declared righteous are the ones he also glorified".(Rom 8:28-30)
Hence, those who are chosen or selected as members of God's Kingdom, "partakers of the heavenly calling" (Heb 3:1), pattern their lives after Jesus Christ (who established that a person must be "producing the fruits [or conduct] of the Kingdom", Matt 21:43; Gal 5:21-23), exercising faith (not just believing, see James 2:24 that says: "You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works [that show we have faith in Jehovah God through Jesus Christ as "the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith", Heb 12:2] and not just by faith alone") in Jesus perfect shed blood, so as to be "declared righteous" (Rom 5:1), in which the apostle Paul wrote that "it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his (or Jehovah God's) undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom paid by Christ Jesus".(Rom 3:24)
Paul further says: "Who will file accusation against God's chosen ones ? God is the One who declares them righteous".(Rom 8:33) In addition, those who will "inherit the earth" as "meek ones" (Matt 5:5) or the "other sheep" (John 10:16), will also have to be "declared righteous" in order to live on the paradise earth that Jehovah purposed when he created Adam and Eve.(Gen 1:28; Luke 23:43)
But this will not happen until the end of Jesus Millennial reign, for until that time, they are considered as "dead" by Jehovah.(Luke 9:60; Rev 20:12, 13) Only when these ones reach perfection in both body and loyalty at the end of Jesus "thousand year" reign (Rev 20:6), can they be "declared righteous" as now "sons of God", so that they receive everlasting life on the paradise earth that fulfills Jehovah original purpose for obedient mankind (and for which God's Kingdom was created, to bring to reality the paradise earth for "meek" ones, Gen 1:28) and whereby Adamic death is destroyed (1 Cor 15:26), thrown into the symbolic "lake of fire" that means "the second death" or eternal destruction.(Rev 20:14)
Paul now establishes that a person who has been chosen by Jehovah God as a ' joint-heir with Christ '(Rom 8:17; 2 Thess 2:13), that these ones are "declared righteous" like Jesus was, for unless they were, then they would not be qualified to be members of God's Kingdom (2 Thess 1:5) and receive a resurrection from the dead to become immortal spirit "sons of God"(1 Cor 15:50-57), saying: "We know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God, those who are the ones called according to his purpose (or the 144,000 chosen from among both the Jews and the nations for God's Kingdom, Rev 5:9, 10), because those whom he gave his first recognition (which is the "offspring" of the "woman" at Gen 3:15, which "woman" is the body of loyal angels from which came the first "son" or Jesus Christ for God's Kingdom, and which 144,000 other "sons" from the earth are added as her "children" [Rev 14:1-3], Isa 54:1, 2; see also Gal 4:26 whereby Paul says that this "woman" is "our mother" and then quotes Isaiah 54:1 at verse 27) he also foreordained (as a collective body in advance, not individual persons, for each member of God's Kingdom must prove loyal till death to receive "the crown of life", Rev 2:10, for "many are invited, but few chosen", Matt 22:14) to be patterned after the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn (or the one chosen first and anointed as a member of God's Kingdom, Matt 3:16, 17, who set the perfect "pattern" to follow, 1 Pet 2:21) among many brothers.(Eph 1:13, 14) Moreover, those whom he foreordained are the ones he also called (or chose to serve as "a kingdom, priests to his (or Jesus) God and Father", Rev 1:6); and those whom he called are the ones he also declared to be righteous (Greek lemma [or base word] dikaioo that means "to render just or innocent", Strong's Concordance). Finally those whom he declared righteous are the ones he also glorified".(Rom 8:28-30)
Hence, those who are chosen or selected as members of God's Kingdom, "partakers of the heavenly calling" (Heb 3:1), pattern their lives after Jesus Christ (who established that a person must be "producing the fruits [or conduct] of the Kingdom", Matt 21:43; Gal 5:21-23), exercising faith (not just believing, see James 2:24 that says: "You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works [that show we have faith in Jehovah God through Jesus Christ as "the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith", Heb 12:2] and not just by faith alone") in Jesus perfect shed blood, so as to be "declared righteous" (Rom 5:1), in which the apostle Paul wrote that "it is as a free gift that they are being declared righteous by his (or Jehovah God's) undeserved kindness through the release by the ransom paid by Christ Jesus".(Rom 3:24)
Paul further says: "Who will file accusation against God's chosen ones ? God is the One who declares them righteous".(Rom 8:33) In addition, those who will "inherit the earth" as "meek ones" (Matt 5:5) or the "other sheep" (John 10:16), will also have to be "declared righteous" in order to live on the paradise earth that Jehovah purposed when he created Adam and Eve.(Gen 1:28; Luke 23:43)
But this will not happen until the end of Jesus Millennial reign, for until that time, they are considered as "dead" by Jehovah.(Luke 9:60; Rev 20:12, 13) Only when these ones reach perfection in both body and loyalty at the end of Jesus "thousand year" reign (Rev 20:6), can they be "declared righteous" as now "sons of God", so that they receive everlasting life on the paradise earth that fulfills Jehovah original purpose for obedient mankind (and for which God's Kingdom was created, to bring to reality the paradise earth for "meek" ones, Gen 1:28) and whereby Adamic death is destroyed (1 Cor 15:26), thrown into the symbolic "lake of fire" that means "the second death" or eternal destruction.(Rev 20:14)
it still doesn't say you are righteous it does say "after God created in righteousness" "after God" simply meaning that the righteousness and holiness is of God in His Likeness and Image. not a thing about you being righteous.
receiving the Life of Christ, is your justifier, because Jesus is justified. and God the Father sees you through His beloved Son. without that righteousness of God through His Son that is of Him you've got not justification and because you are not righteous.
the bible was translated in the English by the brits according to the use of the English language of the day (1500, 1600's) therefore it the documentation of that use that is precise. strongs is a American Methodist if my memory serves, not native to the English language in England where as it is the exhaustive Oxford (not the American use version) that documents the use during the time of translation.
Strong's is not more expert of the English language then the English. that is simple common sense. it is the English that translated from Greek Hebrew and Latin in to their native language.
americans change the use of their words almost daily so accuracy isn't there. and modern translation would become obsolete within a few years , but in the case of KJV and the use of the OED one gets to the truth of the matter with pretending to be a expert at translation.
Your new man is created "after God", that is, according to God's pattern, righteous and holy.
But if you don't believe God has made you righteous, then how will you be righteous? But if God HAS made you righteous, then you can live that.
Be it to you according to your faith.
Much love!
Behold
Well-Known Member
A believer is the "righteousness of God, In Christ".
A believer has been GIVEN "the gift of Righteousness".
You can't be any more righteous then God's righteousness, that you become, as SOON as you are born again.
As a matter of fact, its because you become INSTANTLY the Righteousness of God in Christ is proof you are born again.
That has no relevance here. You asked where the Bible says that we are declared righteous, and when you were shown that justification means exactly that, you should have been glad. Instead you are trying to find an excuse to disbelieve God.
BTW James Strong was a man of integrity and that is why his monumental work continues to serve Christians. Thayer's Greek Lexicon goes into more detail, but they are in complete agreement.
Yes, being saved by grace through faith does in fact mean, "not of works"...however, I believe that it didn't hurt anything to show forth this specific detail; which was indeed missing in your statements as being truly mentioned.
I believe that Romans 7:6 has a bearing on this.
Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Our service to God as Christians is obedience to the spirit of what is written; we are not any longer bound to the letter.
What do you have against the definition of "justify" that we have given?
Yes, 2 Corinthians 5:21.
Yes, Romans 5:17.
Yes; and this righteousness is practical in nature (1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:17-18)..
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