With So Many Denominations...

marksman · Aug 5, 2020

justbyfaith said:
I am saying that if the person is bearing good fruit, that is not a reason to leave them for another pastor.

If you had a plurality of Elders as scripture indicates there would be no pastors to leave for.

bbyrd009 · Aug 5, 2020

historyb said:
Love your screen name My answer is Traditional Churches are the closest to the truth with the Orthodox I would think would be the closest even though I am not Orthodox myself. I am Charismatic Episcopalian (Not Episcopalian or Anglican but a separate Church) and most all Traditional Churches have this statement of faith and this is our statement of faith:

Statement of Faith
The Nicene Creed

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1 John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)
And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1 Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1 Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1 Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2 Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)
And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13) In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

---------------
* The word "catholic" (literally, "complete," "universal," or "according to the whole") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination, institution, or doctrine.

lost as two boys kissing iow

Sabertooth · Aug 5, 2020

Paul wrote that we are many parts, but one body [1 Corinthians 12:12-27].
Anti-denominationalism requires everyone to become the same part, instead of letting God build His Church the way that He sees fit.
Apart from cults, multi-denominationalism gives us the opportunity to be the different body parts that called us to be.

Yan · Aug 5, 2020

marksman said:
My statement of faith is "Jesus Christ is Lord." all the other stuff is mainly to separate them from everyone else and you from them if you don't ascribe to their statement of faith.

Statements of Faith usually are quite meaningless most of the time because people rarely believe what they say. They think they do but in fact, if you look at their actions they don't.

Most churches who say they are a bible believing church are not. What they are is a church that believes their interpretation of the bible which ain't necessarily what the bible says. For example, the Bible says that the church is to be under the authority of a plurality of Elders. Most of these Bible-believing churches are under the authority of "A" pastor. Not mentioned once in scripture.

If churches focussed more on what they did than what they said we would get rid of the idea that when all is said and done, more is said than done. Churches that are wed to sermons are less likely to be a bible believing church because form takes precedent over fact.

And I always worry about churches that are "sound" because as we know, empty vessels make the most sound.

There are of course exceptions to every rule but I am not talking about the exceptions.

I think all mankind had given a curse since Adam & Eve (Genesis 3:15), from this we can separate mankind into two nature which is a person who have an understanding of the words of God like Mary Magdalene (Romans 4) and a person with the understanding of the actions like Martha (James 2:14-26).
So, we should not give a stumbling block to our fellow human beings but we should reprimand one another and develop so as to create a balance between these two types of human nature. If we can accept the shortcomings of one another we fulfilled the main law (Matthew 22:36-40).

2 Chr. 34:19 · Aug 5, 2020

BarnyFife said:
Still haven't found what I'm looking for. Someone, please say something that only you would say.

Don’t give up...keep searching

Hidden In Him · Aug 5, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
I dont know how anyone could read his etymologies and not learn 100 new relevant things that they did not previously know, and are fascinated to discover?

He does seem well-versed in ancient languages. Who is he, or rather who are they? Finding authorship is no easy task at that site.

bbyrd009 said:
ha well from your pov maybe, but in all fairness on how many occasions have you asked for clarification?

I'd be asking all the time, LoL. I've complained to you about it a little in the past, but I think your mold got cast so long ago that there's no changing you at this point. I stopped trying : )

Truther · Aug 5, 2020

BarnyFife said:
Update: I'm afraid I haven't made myself very clear. My intentions were to provoke critical/analytical thought harnessed by Scripture--not to solicit personal suggestions per se (not that I couldn't use some, of course). With all of the bright hearts and minds I've encountered so far, in the end we all go away with some useful knowledge.
------------------------------------------------
With all the many Christian denominations and sects out there, how can one know which one is closest to teaching the truth about Jesus and the Gospel, especially if they all claim to be arriving at truth through basically the same method?

And to those who would answer that it doesn't matter because we must arrive at the truth on our own:

a) Who, honestly, actually does that? We're all influenced by teachers to some degree, and we're affected by our environment, experiences, upbringing and, most hopefully, the Holy Spirit, Himself. And doesn't the Bible Itself even suggest that at least some or most of us have to be taught?; and

b) If we're cautioned not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together, especially near the end of time (and if we aren't close now I don't even want to imagine what "close" looks like), is it really God's will that we should have no place to go on a regular basis to meet and worship with others who believe as we do?

I've noticed that when people fiercely protect a doctrine, it's usually one that seems to have (seemingly) conflicting evidence even from the Bible alone.

If it seems like I'm encouraging skepticism, nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm looking for practical, critically-reasoned, non-canned answers to real problems (real, at least, as I see it).

I woke up one day when I was 23 years old and realized that I just believed what my family believed about God. A, B, C, 1, 2, 3--right down the line.

I believe Christians ought to believe the same thing about how Jesus saves us and what, if anything, we owe Him. I believe the Bible predicts it. But I don't believe we should treat each other unkindly while working toward the unity of the faith.

The Information age has produced a multi-generational group of ultra-sensitive (non)communicators.

I'm hoping this community proves to be the exception to the rule. I'm confident that by God's grace it will.

It all starts from whether someone obeys Acts 2:38 or not.

If one disobeys Acts 2:38, they are not in the Acts church, but a denomination.

If one obeys Acts 2:38, they are in the Acts church, which is not a denomination.

user · Aug 5, 2020

BarnyFife said:
Sounds awfully Pauline-centric.

The Lord met Paul in the way - on the Road to Damascus. Struck him blind (temporally) and called him to ministry.

This is Paul...

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
[4] Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
[5] Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
[6] Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

[7] But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
[10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

2 Corinthians 11:22 Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
[23] Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
[24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
[25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
[26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
[27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.

This is a man called by God and entrusted with the New Testament Church. This is the Apostle, Paul, which wrote to the Ephesians in Chapter 4 - The Five-Fold Ministry. The Fruit of the Spirit to the Galatians Chapter 5, and the Gifts of the Spirit to the Corinthians Chapter 12.

So if this sounds a bit "Pauline" ... you should take it up with God himself.

God Bless!

bbyrd009 · Aug 5, 2020

Hidden In Him said:
He does seem well-versed in ancient languages. Who is he, or rather who are they? Finding authorship is no easy task at that site.

i dont feel at liberty to divulge his name for some reason, and even though as i said he does not like me much, i feel a need to protect him, as imo he is a Dangerous Man. But you could email him easily enough? And im not sure if he is a loner, as i suspect, or has a staff, which is possible, sorry. "copyright and contact" info at the bottom of any page, which i never did any of that, that i remember...maybe once. And wow have i been violating his copyright policy, yikes

Hidden In Him said:
I'd be asking all the time, LoL. I've complained to you about it a little in the past, but I think your mold got cast so long ago that there's no changing you at this point. I stopped trying : )

well, i try to break my mold every day lol, and id love an example complaint, if you would. I didnt reply?

bbyrd009 · Aug 5, 2020

Sabertooth said:
Paul wrote that we are many parts, but one body [1 Corinthians 12:12-27].
Anti-denominationalism requires everyone to become the same part, instead of letting God build His Church the way that He sees fit.
Apart from cults, multi-denominationalism gives us the opportunity to be the different body parts that called us to be.

hmm. may i suggest that cults and denominations are...very kin, meaning cults are not "bad," cultures, and that there is also a sense in which we as believers all march in files and rows, with perhaps slightly diff hairstyles, even though what you say might also obtain, a little. I say this bc imo denoms disagree on the mostly irrelevant, religious yack, and heartily agree on the Death, More Abundantly part

so while multi-demon might sometimes do what you say...always? never? i guess we should examine the works of some of them body parts and see, maybe? Yes, they often have the appearance of good, but songing "When We All Get to Heaven" feels really good too, eh? cant think of any that arent fit for the fire except Catholic Charities tbh. Maybe a few mennonite and indy congs.

your gatherings do more harm than good
you cross land and sea to make a single convert...

etc, i mean these are not written for nothing?
Catholics all the same part? Now there's a pitcher lol
why is it that pagans always seems to shine better in a certain light, i wonder

Sabertooth said:
Anti-denominationalism requires everyone to become the same part, instead of letting God build His Church the way that He sees fit.

id like to suggest that the Church comes out of those--as well as other places i guess--but that they are not "Church" at all!

What I am saying is that as long as the heir is a child, he is no different from a slave, although he is the owner of everything!

amadeus · Aug 5, 2020

BarnyFife said:
The Gospel is always best served by Jesus, I always say.

Then again if Jesus is indeed the Word of God what better Servant than He?

"But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." Matt 20:26-28

bbyrd009 · Aug 5, 2020

Jesus of Nazareth
John Doe, from Nowhere
"In other words, to the academic world of the day, the name Jesus of Nazareth meant John Doe, the proverbial ordinary guy of no particular academic merit..."
hows that for something only i would say

historyb said:
Love your screen name My answer is Traditional Churches are the closest to the truth with the Orthodox I would think would be the closest even though I am not Orthodox myself. I am Charismatic Episcopalian (Not Episcopalian or Anglican but a separate Church) and most all Traditional Churches have this statement of faith and this is our statement of faith:

Statement of Faith
The Nicene Creed

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1 John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)
And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1 Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1 Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1 Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2 Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)
And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13) In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

---------------
* The word "catholic" (literally, "complete," "universal," or "according to the whole") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination, institution, or doctrine.

im just razzing you ok, but orthodox closest to the truth you gotta be kidding right
they are passing out Red Stew like its going out of style lol

amadeus · Aug 5, 2020

@bbyrd009 @BarnyFife

Hidden In Him said:
In his favor?

He's a free-thinker like you are, but far too mentally undisciplined for my liking. I take you for being more solid, albeit there are only rare occasions when you choose to communicate without obfuscation.

"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand" Matt 13:10-13

bbyrd009 · Aug 5, 2020

amadeus said:
@bbyrd009 @BarnyFife

"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand" Matt 13:10-13

good point imo, although i guess i am mostly a troll here to sow doubt and confusion, but the Abarim are...ha, well, laying it out too plainly by far, maybe. dunno

bbyrd009 · Aug 5, 2020

Philip James said:
Hello Barny,

Not I only, but all my brothers and sisters:

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

nice avatar pj

Truther · Aug 5, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
good point imo, although i guess i am mostly a troll here to sow doubt and confusion, but the Abarim are...ha, well, laying it out too plainly by far, maybe. dunno

You?

Naaaah!

amadeus · Aug 5, 2020

Hidden In Him said:
I kinda stopped worrying about denominations altogether quite a long time ago. Granted, there are denominations that I assume are going to produce certain types of churches, but within every denomination you can have some churches that have some positive things going on, and some that are quite good, while having others that are mediocre or downright abysmal.

Indeed, I have found the same thing. If the Catholic Church in other places in other places had been like the local parish was when I was a teenager, I might have remained there to this day... Ah, but again, 'if wishes were horses, beggars would ride'! Men were going their ways and God was going His. Should we choose sides?

It ends up depending upon individual leadership, and the nature and make up of a particular congregation in a given area. I remember during my college days being Pentecostal but attending a Baptist church for a time nonetheless. I just liked the way the church was run better, and the pastor seemed warmer and closer to God.

Yes, who is our Leader or leader? A man it may be but who is leading him? Who is leading us? One's own mind and experiences or the Holy Spirit? The warmth is perhaps what Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego felt in the fiery furnace, Comfort... yet others coming to the same place...

"Therefore because the king's commandment was urgent, and the furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego." Dan 3:22

Was it not the same fire, the same consuming fire, which is our God? The difference was...?

bbyrd009 · Aug 5, 2020

Illuminator said:
I wholeheartedly agree, but just how pure we are cannot be absolutely certain until after we are dead, not before.

Death More Abundantly, really?
completely hopeless, imo. Death on a stick, is what you got
which i guess will just stop you hearing, my apologies

Illuminator said:
The quest for unity is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

dont be so sure, ok? I mean how are you defining "unity?" i certainly agree that you are allowed to believe what you like, beliefs are not judged anyway that i can tell, but i note that you speak in facts and absolute truths, too, iow "satan's dialectic"

coat of many colors

which dont get me wrong i was raised hegelian myself ok...and fwiw irl i would never say this to you, and only do so now for consideration

so, this whole post is terrible i guess, a better way to state the point will occur to me later prolly
meanwhile, pls go flagellate or something

farouk · Aug 5, 2020

It's not realistic in any case to expect one huge church organization with uniform characteristics; rather, it is supremely important for local Christians as they meet to be exercised prayerfully in the Scriptures around common doctrines centering on the Person and Work of Christ.

amadeus · Aug 5, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
Jesus of Nazareth
John Doe, from Nowhere
"In other words, to the academic world of the day, the name Jesus of Nazareth meant John Doe, the proverbial ordinary guy of no particular academic merit..."
hows that for something only i would say

im just razzing you ok, but orthodox closest to the truth you gotta be kidding right
they are passing out Red Stew like its going out of style lol

"And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:
And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom [red]." Gen 25:29-30

Talk about jumping on someone else's bandwagon!

With So Many Denominations...

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