Why Do Catholics Believe In Purgatory?

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Benoni

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I am not a Catholic but for once they have something somewhat right. The Greek word for fire is "pur" is the root words we get out English words pure, purify, purge, and puragtory. There are many words that use the word fire in the Bible. God's spiritual fire purifies.

"Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knows us not, because it knew Him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is. And every man that has this hope in Him purifies himself, even as He is pure."
(1 John 3:1-3).
 

lloydnook

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I am puzzled why Catholics teach and believe in purgatory. Can anyone explain this to me?

Hi James; this may help.

Why the Roman Catholic church is not of God Almighty.



If it is not of Christ, then billions of people have been deceived. The Ecumenical movement is not of God, the Roman Charismatic Movement is not of God, and Roman Catholics (RCs), are heading for spiritual disaster!

If we study the life of a person from birth to death, in the context of the Roman Catholic Church (R.C.C.) practices and Sacraments, and compare them to what the Bible (the Word of God) says, if the RCC is of God, then they should compliment each other.



Sacrament of Baptism.

Then RCC states that it is one of seven channels that a person can hope to be saved.

The babe cannot be exposed to “Jesus”, because it is under the influence of evil spirits. A priest exorcises the demons by anointing the babe with oil, and placing salt in its mouth, to preserve it from future influence of evil spirits!

The babe is then baptised with water. At that point the baby is supposedly cleansed of original sin, made a child of God, and an heir of heaven, provided it dies “in grace”.

The babe is “born again”, and at that moment becomes a member of the RCC, and is subject to its laws!



The Bible says; Baptism is undergone by Believers in Christ to show their identification with Him in His death, burial and resurrection. (Rom. 6:3-10; Acts 8:36-38).

“Then they that gladly received his word were baptised” (Acts 2:41).

First they believed, then they were baptised. Baptism itself does not save!





The Sacrament of Penance.

The child is growing up, and is told that the time has come for it to confess sins to a priest.

This Sacrament allows a priest to forgive the sins that have been committed since baptism, and is called “absolution”.

The person must examine the conscience, be sorry for the sin/s, give undertaking to try not to sin again, and confess the sin/s to the priest. They are then given a task called “penance” to perform, to complete the process.

At future confessions, the person must list all sins since the previous confession!

By this the RCC replaces repentance with the “sacrifice” of “penance”.

Did the “confessional” originate with the Vatican? No! It originated in ancient Babylon, with the worship of the sun god “Baal”. It was part of an occult religious system!

It was used in Babylon as a method of control and blackmail of the people!

The confessional is not found in the Word of God, the Bible!



The Bible says; “My little children, these things I write unto you, that you sin not. And if any man (person) sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and He is the propitiation (the perfect sacrifice in our stead) for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world”. (1John 2:1-2).





The Sacrament of Confirmation.

The person undergoing Confirmation, is lightly slapped on the face by a bishop, which is the point “that the person is filled with the Holy Spirit!” Only the Bishop can instigate this event, just as only the priest could instigate the “born again” event at baptism!

They are then “a citizen of the RC church”, with all the responsibilities of the citizen.

That involves defending the faith, which has had serious consequences worldwide!

Note: The RC can now say that they are “a Christian”, and have “received the Holy Spirit”, and has “received Jesus as Saviour!” They know they are not saved, according to RCC teaching, they have no assurance of salvation, even through the six sacraments!

According to the Council of Trent, any one who says they have assurance of salvation is “anathema” (damned as a heretic) (Council of Trent, Session VI ).

Since the Vatican II Council, RCs cannot call Protestants heretics, but only “separated brethren”!

RCs are of the opinion that their system is the only way to heaven, and that the Pope is the highest, purest form of Godliness on earth. It has claimed that it is infallible, and also that it has never lied or made a mistake! History shows otherwise, in both Popes, the inquisitions, and in their actions, and also in the current activities of priests worldwide!





The Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.

RCs believe that in this procedure that they receive the actual Body and Blood of Christ Jesus! In the church setting, the people go to the alter rail, and after kneeling, the priest gives each one, first a wafer (the host), and second the wine.

The wafer and wine are first presented in the “Offertory” at the alter by the priest. This is followed by a prayer of praise, “the Preface”, followed by the “Sanctus”, a prayer of joy, a cry of welcome to the Lord, who will enter the wafer! This followed by the “consecration”, at which point the wafer “becomes God”, and the wine “becomes the actual blood of Christ”!

Note: In 1563, the RCC at the Council of Trent, passed a law sentencing to death any person who stated that the bread and wine used in the Eucharist, were only symbolic!

This law was used many times to torture, and burn alive many Christians in Europe!

This law has not been rescinded, and in fact has been ratified continually since. (Council of Trent, Session 13, Chapter V111).

This behaviour of the RCC, totally violates Scripture. “Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord”. (Heb. 10:30).

The origins of this belief/practice, go back to ancient Babylon! The worship of the sun god Baal, was removed to ancient Egypt. On the alters of the sun god were placed sun shaped wafers, made of unleavened bread. These were consecrated by the Baal priests, and were supposedly magically transformed into the body of the sun god Osiris! This is called “transubstantiation”. They were then eaten, as eating their god, a type of Eucharist.

The Holy Eucharist is placed in the centre of a sunburst design called the “monstrance” The wafer (the host) has on it the letters IHS, which stand for Isis, Horus, and Seb! RCs must bow before this “monstrance”!

When a person is receiving the wafer during the Eucharist, they must believe they are eating the Creator of the universe! They can then say that “they have received Jesus as Saviour!”

RCs believe the priest is so powerful, he can pull Christ out of heaven, (Council of Trent statement, page 11) put Him on the cross, and sacrifice Him again during the Mass! (Heb.7:27)

The Bible says: “and when He had given thanks, He brake it, and said, take, eat: this is my Body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also He took the cup, when He had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in My blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come”. (1 Cor.11:24-26; 10:16,17,21.)

When the Lord Jesus died on the Calvary cross, He cried, “it is finished”. The once for all Sacrifice for those that believe! The above described, negates the Lord’s Sacrificial death, and its once for all value!



The Sacrament of Matrimony:

This received at marriage by persons who are marrying a baptised man/woman, in lawful marriage, witnessed by a priest.



The Sacrament of Holy Orders:

This can only be received by men who carry out “sacred” duties such as bishops, priests, and other ministers of the RCC.



The Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick, (Extreme Unction):

This received at the point of death, if a person is within range of a priest!

When a RC person dies, they may have received six of the seven sacraments.

The RC person has trusted the “church”, the priest, and has attempted to be a good and faithful RC. That dead person will go to “Purgatory”, which is a state and place of punishment, where the “soul” suffers for a “time”, in order to be cleansed before going to heaven! The duration of time in purgatory is unknown, and the RCC states that even Popes have been in purgatory for centuries! Money must be paid to the RCC, for Masses, to help people get out of purgatory!

In the RC bible, the above teaching is taken from 11 Maccabees 12:43-46, which is a book not included in the cannon of authentic Bibles.

Purgatory is not in the Bible, it is an invention of the Vatican, as one of the greatest sources of money ever invented! Billions of Dollars have made the RCC rich from the survivors of deceased loved ones, desperate to release the loved one from purgatory!

At worst, this is a huge confidence trick on RC adherents, because, if the deceased person has not at some stage in their life trusted Christ for personal Salvation, they are lost! The only exceptions would be persons of incapacity mentally, and children under the age of mental responsibility.

There is no doubt that millions of RCs are seeking to serve God and to please Him, which is why the RCC and its teaching is so pernicious.



The Bible says: “let God be true but every man a liar” (Rom. 3:4). If a person has been taught one thing, but the Bible says something else, who’s right?

The Apostle Paul told the church at Galatia that no matter who came to them bringing any other doctrine, that they were not to believe it, (Gal.1:6-12).

If a RC person had believed the True Word, the Bible before they died, they would be saved, because Salvation only comes through faith in Christ Jesus, not in sacraments, (Eph. 2:8-10), (Acts 4:12).

The Bible states there is only one way to heaven. Jesus said, “I am the way, the Truth, and The Life: no man cometh to the Father, but by me” (John 14:16).



Mary:

Is the RC “Mary”, the same as the Mary of the Bible? No. The RCs call their Mary “the Queen of Heaven”. The real Mary admitted she was a sinner, just like us! (Luke 2:22, Lev.12:8).

The Mary RCs are taught, used to be called Venus! That started in ancient Babylon when Semiramis became a goddess. Later in other countries, she was called Isis, (this name is still used by secret societies) Venus, and other names. “The Legion of Mary” handbook stated in 1975, “Mary is the mother alike of the Redeemer and of the redeemed. It was from her veins that the blood was drawn which now lies scattered cheaply about, but which has ransomed the world”! This statement is total blasphemy against the precious blood of Christ!



Priests: The term priest was taken from the Jewish religion, along with the alter, incense, etc. (Heb. 8:4). The New Testament instructs us how to run a church. There is no mention of a priest! What are mentioned are pastors, deacons, etc. who have a responsibility of service to the people, not of a superior position to the people. They are to be honoured by the people, if they serve well!

The Bible never mentions nuns, monks, or popes. This system, along with statues, candles, religious costumes, etc. was created by the RCC to impress its followers. The people love it, but only their leaders really understand the religious phraseology and psychology used to control their approx one billion members!



Popes: The supreme head of the RCC. The position created on a wrong interpretation of the scripture, Matt. 16:18, “and I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church”. The RCC has taken these words to conveniently mean that Peter was the first Pope, and that all the subsequent popes are rightfully positioned from him!

What the Lord was actually referring to, were the words of Peter in verse 16, “And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ (the Messiah), the Son of the living God”.

Jesus was saying that He would build His church on the fact of His Messiahship, as God’s Annointed One!

The Roman error has perverted the process of Truth to the people ever since!

Various popes have declared their infallibility ever since. A few are listed here;

Pope Innocent III, Pope Boniface VIII, Pope Leo XIII.

Only recently has that infallibility been declared by the RCC to be confined to matters of doctrine! However, the RCC has still not answered the question as to how one pope can change the “Bull” of a previous pope, if they are always infallible, which of course they are not!





Conclusion:

A Roman Catholic person is a citizen of two countries. They have two flags, two heads of State, two constitutions, and two loyalties.

The Vatican is a government with its own money, secretary of state and ambassadors, and is a recognised nation. All “good” RCs are loyal to the Vatican first!

The structure of the organisation is owed to Constantine’s reorganisation, with the help of his mother, Helena.

What is not generally known, is that ancient Rome, under its various Caesars, adopted the religions of the nations they conquered, to placate the populous in their new condition of ”conquered nation." Many of the gods that were “adopted,” became “saints” in the new universal Roman religion! This was a very successful policy, and was later merged into the "Christian" empire under Constantine/Helena. This is one of the origins of "mother and child" worship, as the Roman pagans rebelled, when Isis and child were to be excluded! Constantine relented, and the result is Mary worship today! At the same time that Constantine and his mother formed “The holy Roman Empire," all debate on the various disputes and views that were current in Christian circles, was stifled, on pain of death! This is one of the reasons why the Roman church does not encourage Roman Catholics to read the Bible unsupervised, they only allow the "official" view to be expressed! It is also the reason for many of the other official teachings, many of which originate in ancient Babylon! After the formation of Constantine's Roman church, and the instigation of "Popery," there followed the various "councils," and "bulls," which give the rules for belief in the Roman church, which Catholics today must follow! These corruptions had tainted the True message for approx.1200 years, and until the bravery of Martin Luther and others, held sway!





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lloydnook

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I am puzzled why Catholics teach and believe in purgatory. Can anyone explain this to me?

Further on this theme James:

HELL!



This subject is one of the most controversial. Many religions speak of a place of doom or punishment, and in the common usage of language world wide, this in the popular imagination is now more or less fixed as hell! Many pagan systems of worship had/have the concept, and these have passed on into modern consciousness. At the inception of the Roman Church, many pagan practices and beliefs had already been incorporated into the Roman Empire, as nations were conquered, and by the time of Constantine and Helena, the existing arrangements had to be somehow incorporated into the new “Christian Church.” The original concept of hell, as a place of unimaginable pain, suffering and torture, which was to last for ever, and which is still propagated by the Roman Church and others, was from Babylon, and had been used by the pagan rulers to keep control and the obedience of the population. This concept, which has been reinforced by many writings and teachings for millennia, and popularised by such plays and films as "Dante’s Inferno," from “The Divine Comedy,” is not easily challenged, or discussed, as it carries the force and “mystique” of the “establishment;” and that, like the ancient pagan times, carries fear for many people. In fact, the concept of Dante’s Inferno, is based on the miss teaching of the Roman Church, and propagates the concept of “Purgatory” and “Paradise,” as opposed to what the Bible shows. A further error in that “play,” is that Dante is guided through Purgatory by Beatrice, his much loved deceased wife, and the prayers of other of Dante’s friends and relations, to ease the Purgatory passage! All of this is well received by the Church of Rome, as it reinforces their teaching, and control of their congregations! In the above example, there is “Purgatory,” “Paradise” and a personage called Beatrice, who has survived death.

What can be gleaned from the Bible, to attempt to confirm, or otherwise these concepts?



Definition of terms:

Purgatory: in Roman Church teaching, this is a place for the post-mortem placement of “soul.”

Hell: a place of fiery torment.

Soul: in Roman and other church teaching, a continuing entity after death, from each person, known as “the immortal soul.”

Paradise: in some religions, the ultimate abode of the just or justified. A place of complete happiness. In all cases a very special place. There is very little in Scripture to illustrate the domain of “heaven.” We know it is the dwelling place of Almighty God, and that Jesus said in John 14:2, it has “many mansions,” correctly translated; many abiding places. It is clearly a destination that most people desire, and through Christ is attainable!



Purgatory: This concept has been taught for so long, and linked to the "immortal soul" in the Roman teaching, that many people cannot even consider that it may be a false teaching! The possibility that their own entity may end at death, is too difficult and painful to contemplate. Its concept is from Babylon, and in the Roman version, the “soul” in question can be prayed for, have “masses” said, and the “sins” of the person “mitigated” by various “acts,” and in the past “payments” to the Church, which was and is lucrative for the Church. This system of course gives enormous power to the Roman Church, as for the “believer,” they are the only entity able to give/ instigate these eternal benefits! This teaching of course eliminates the True message of Salvation in Christ, and also negates the fact that a person may have a DIRECT relationship with Christ!

In summary therefore, the intermediate and intermediary state called Purgatory, is not Biblical, and goes against the message of Salvation in the Bible. It is therefore by definition anti-Christ!



Hell: The common concept of hell as a place of continual, fiery torment, is reinforced by the “parable” (so called by Christendom) of “The rich man and Lazarus.” Our Lord was here in Luke 16, quoting the teaching of the Pharisees, which was/is from the Talmud and Mishnah, and are the false writings of the Jews after Ezra. They are from the minds of men and “the Prince of this world,” not God! Jesus’ purpose in so doing, was to illustrate the falseness of their “wisdom” writings, as embodied in the Talmud, the Mishnah, and in the present day are lumped together with the modified original 5 books of Moses, and called the Torah! In this 16th chapter of Luke, Jesus, quoting the Lazarus story from the Talmud, was refuting the teaching of the Pharisees on divorce in v18, and showing in verse 30 and 31, that “even if one rose from the dead,” they would not hear or repent. That was confirmed when He raised the other Lazarus, and in His own Resurrection.

To summarise, our Lord’s own evidential Miracles and His Resurrection, did not change the hearts of the Scribes and Pharisees, and in fact they hardened more against Him! The Teaching of The Rich man and Lazarus, was/is a false teaching, as regards hell, but Christendom (Roman Church etc.) has taught it as per the false writings of the Jewish people, reinforcing the false hell concept.



Soul: Almost all people around the world believe that “the soul” is an enduring part of themselves, that continues after their decease. They generally believe that it goes to either “heaven or hell.” In the following verse from Rev. chp. 6, the comments attempt to throw light on this subject. (Taken from www.revelationsmessage.co.uk ).



V.9 And when He opened the 5th seal, I saw under the alter the (a) souls= psucha of them that had been slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

(a) See comments Rev. 20:4 (b.) Apps. 110 (2,) 170 (3,) and 13. There is much confusion on this subject. The Greek myth of an enduring entity called the "soul," is now established teaching in the churches, and works against Christ's sacrificial death on the Cross. The Roman teaching in particular gives power to Priests and people for "purgatory" relief of "unrepentant souls," by their prayers, and "special Masses." A careful study of Scripture shows that the spirit of life is given and taken by Almighty God, and by Him alone. The spirit of life and the dust of the ground = the living soul, Gen. 2:7. The word soul is used very loosely in everyday speech, which only adds to the confusion. In the important instances, care is needed to ascertain the actual intended meaning. In this case, the Greek "psucha," in context means the individual. However these "individuals," "have been slain for the Word of God," and they are in the Tribulation age. There is the implication that those so affected go straight to heaven. In this age, when we die, we await the resurrection of either glory with Christ, if we have trusted Him for salvation and we are washed in His redeeming blood, or resurrection to precise judgement at the "Great White Throne," at the end of the Millennial age, Rev. 20:11-12. In the case of the saved and the unsaved, the spirit of life returns to the Father, Ecc. 7. In the case of the Christian (the true Christ one,) there is the implication in Scripture, that the Christ Spirit returns to Christ, Acts 7:59 & Philippians 1:23.







It cannot be emphasised enough, that in the opinion of the writer, the Spirit of Life is continually confused with "the Soul", as in common language usage world wide!



As can be seen from the above comments, the period of time one is living in, seems to change the case, this in Scripture is called by the Apostle Paul “the administration,” or “age time” by others. Each “age time” has different criterion and rules, hence the comments above regarding those that die in different situations, and times. The fact that there is so much confusion regarding “the soul” and “the spirit of life,” and that to many people the two are interchangeable in general speech, adds to the misconceptions. There is no doubt that the “spirit” returns to God at death. The soul in the Bible’s own definition (and therefore God’s) is as shown above in blue. However, many people will object to this comment, and insist that “consciousness” continues in the “soul” after death! The Bible is clear; after the death of an individual, there is no consciousness or memory! These references confirm the point; Psms. 6:5, 30:9, 31:17, 88:11,115:17,118:17, 146:4, Ecc. l. 9:6-10, 12:7, Isa. 38:17-19.

The great emphasis of the Nechromancers of all shades, is that “there is no death.” In the “Spiritualist” churches, many of their hymns emphasise this in each verse. This is the great thrust of Satan in the world, to try to stop people from believing that Christ has defeated death on the Calvary Cross, and that HE ALONE HAS THE POWER AND AUTHORITY TO RAISE PEOPLE FROM THE DEAD! All authority is His until He hands back the finished Work to the Father, at the end of the Millennial Reign! (1Cor. 15:24.)



So what does the Bible say about a place of incarceration and/or torment? There are two major references to such in Revelation, one is for those that worship the Beast, and receive his mark, and the second is the “Lake of fire,” which is during the “Great White Throne Judgement.”



Worship of the Beast. (The following extracted from Rev. 14, www.revelationsmessage.co.uk )



V.9 And (a)the third angel followed them saying with a (b)loud voice, (c)"If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark upon his forehead, or in his hand,



V.10 The same shall (d)drink of the wine of the wrath of God, (e)which is poured out without mixture (f)into the cup of His indignation; (g)and they shall be tormented with fire and brimstone (h)in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:



V.11 (k)And the smoke of their torment (m)ascended up forever and ever: (n)and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."


It is not an exaggeration to say this is probably the most profound warning in the whole of Scripture, which is delivered by the third angel. (We must remember that these messengers are being heard by all mankind!) The following warning given is so profoundly strong and uncompromising, that most readers shrink from accepting its clear message. However, we know that all Scripture is from the Holy Spirit (2 Tim. 3:16.) The severity of the warning does not at first glance seem to accord with The Almighty God of Love. However; when properly and prayerfully perceived, it becomes clear that even at this extreme stage of evil (adherence to Satan,) that has by then been reached, merciful Jehovah Zebaoth has given a last warning to the people of earth. After that warning, there is no way of escape! At this present moment in time it is very easy for people to escape future judgment and damnation, by accepting in Truth in their hearts (innermost being,) that Jesus Christ died for their sin, on The Cross, at Calvary, outside the walls of Jerusalem, approx. 2000 years ago.



That sacrifice, which is acceptable to Jehovah God, IS THE ULTIMATE, BECAUSE CHRIST ON THE CROSS WAS GOD INCARNATE! Once this offered gift of salvation (being made whole) is removed, the way to salvation and God becomes much harder, as is being shown in Rev. 14. Once the warning of V. 9-10 are given there are only TWO OPTIONS open to mankind.
1) Be for Jehovah Zebaoth and Christ;
2) Serve Satan, receive his mark and worship him.


Once the second option is taken men and women will be seen as they truly are for the first time (tares,) with no subterfuge, disguise or other ways of covering their true identity. They are children of Satan, and TOTALLY unredeemable, and will receive the same punishment reserved for Satan and his angels eventually.



As one third of Heaven’s angels fell under the guile, lies and deceit of Satan, so will countless human beings. The torment that they will have to endure for “an age,” has turned many good men and women from studying these verses, but they must be understood in the context of Satan's totally perverse rebellion against THE ONE TRUE LOVING GOD, whose purpose in the defeat of Satan, is only to prove HIS GREAT LOVE of HIS created beings, (see notes in Chp. 12:V.12 a) B) c,) and to deal with the "mystery of iniquity!" (2Thess. 2:7.)



(h) "The presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:"

Here is the stated fact that God the Father will torment Satan's disciples, in the presence of the non-fallen angels (remembering that ⅓ of all angelic beings will have gone over to Satan,) and The Lamb. It has to be noted that The LAMB is mentioned and not Christ or Jesus! This will be a constant reminder during this period (Millennial,) to all creation that Christ became The Lamb of God that took away the sin of the world. Also the humans being tormented, that they are the result of the lie, which only Satan propagated.

(k) "And the smoke of their torment;" the word smoke probably is used to indicate their huge agony and regret, as well as their actual suffering. Many true Christ-ones, have been tortured, burned alive etc., when they stood against “The Lie,” in its many forms, the biggest being the Roman Church!!

(m) "Ascended up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

"Forever and ever;" (Str. 165) Greek "AION;" an age. It however has a particular meaning in the Jewish context of, "a Messianic period!!"

(n) "And they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

The fact that no rest is available "day or night," to these Satanic adherents tends to back up the "Messianic period" mentioned above, as day and night as we know it is to change at Chp. 21, when God Almighty "makes all things new." It also seems implicit that at the "Great White Throne Judgement," these people will go the way of their master, Chp. 20:10. "And whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." See above comments, and those of Chp. 13:17.

So in summary, these people are those alive during the “reign of the Beast,” and they worship him and receive his mark, to enable them to live “normally.” It is notable when studying the whole of Revelation, that they have had many warnings from God’s angels and people, that to pay homage to the great Anti-Christ will result in the above described!



The Great White throne Judgement, and Lake of Fire.

(Rev.20, extract from www.revelationsmessage.co.uk )



Rev. 20 V.10 (a)And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and they shall be tormented day and night to the (b)age of the ages.

(a) Satan finally dealt with, never to return!

(B) This usually translated "for ever and ever".



Rev. 20 V.11 (a)And I saw a great white throne, and Him That sat on it, from Whose face (b)the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.



Rev. 20 V.12 (c)And I saw the dead, the great and small standing before the throne; and (d)the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

(a) This is the so called “great white throne judgement,” which commences after the end of the Millennial reign and after the final demise of Satan.

(B) See Chp. 21:1.

(c) All people that ever lived who were not in the first resurrection, or the Rapture, and those of V.9.

(d) "The books;" "these books," i.e. records are kept on all humans, in heaven. They do not apply to those of THE BODY OF CHRIST or THE

OVERCOMERS of Revelation chapters. The results of these records are the judgements about to be given in these verses. The second death is the

penalty for those failing! (See 20:6) (20:14) (Matt. 10:28.)

Reference has been made to these books from the earliest record in Holy Writ. Some of these are; Ex. 32:32-33. Dan. 7:10, 12:1, Rev. 3:5, 13:8, 17:8, 20:12, 20:15, 21:27.



Rev. 20 V.13 (a)And the sea gave up the dead which are in it; and death and the (b)grave delivered up the dead which are in them: and they were judged each one according to their works.

(a) See Vs. 11 and 12 and notes.

(B) This in A.D. 1611 translated incorrectly “hell.” The concept of hell is Greek in origin (Pythagoras), adopted by the Roman church, and later by Church of England and other Protestant groups. The Greek word “HADES,” renders (Str. No. 86,) a place or state of departed souls, (i.e. bodies) i.e. grave, hell. This led the Roman church to develop the concept of “purgatory,” a place between life, and heaven or “hell.” This was due to the Roman adoption of the Greek concept of soul, i.e. as a separate continuing entity to the body, which ignores the clear definition given in Genesis, 2:7, where God “formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” The soul therefore is the result of the dust + the breath of life = the soul!

The Roman error has led to the awful practice of praying by Roman Catholics for “the souls of departed loved ones,” which leads them to believe that their prayers can overcome the departed ones sins, and gain them access to heaven! This terrible teaching negates the work of Our Lord on The Cross, and millions of people worldwide are thus misled. This is part of the “Harlot,” of Chps. 17 and 18 etc.



It is certain that the subject of “hell,” has become mixed together with the “grave” mistranslation; and the punishment of those that worship and receive the mark of the beast (Rev. 14:10,) Also, the verse in Rev. 22:15, which alludes to an expulsion in that future time, see notes 22:14; and also Rev. 1:18 (B), to the writer seems to be a separate subject, and not related to Rev. 14:10; see: http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Index%204.htm

In the Old Testament (Hebrew Tanach); the word "Sheol" is variously translated as "grave, pit or hell." In the places where it is correctly translated "hell," (which refers to the Lake of Fire in Revelation) the Pharisees (Orthodox Jews) will not accept that translation as they deny the existence of a place of punishment, retribution and the "second death" in the prerogative of Almighty God (Jehovah Zebaoth,) for the destruction of His Enemy, and enemies! In the sense of the way it has been presented and taught by the Roman Church, and latterly by some Protestant Sects, they are correct, but not in the sense of their exclusion of Rev. 14 and 20! As the Orthodox Jews do not accept the New Testament as being from God, they do not accept the teaching there in Revelation regarding the Great White Throne Judgement; and the "Lake of Fire"! This latter, is what most people think of as "Hell"; but it is not a place of torment by Satan and his demons, but of destruction and punishment by God, of Satan, his demons, and for all those who joined Satan in opposition to God; and His Love in Christ through the ages since Eden, and even perhaps before!



The Pharisaic Jews also deny Satan, and the power he currently wields, and all Christian teaching, including the coming Wrath of God in Judgement on the earth, leading to the Great White Throne Judgement of Revelation 20, etc. As in the time of Jesus, they are vociferous as to their interpretation being the only correct understanding of Scripture, which of course means they are anti-Christ, as opposed to the Anti-Christ! Their anti Punishment teaching, is an extension of the errors that have been propagated since Ezra; who tried to re-establish them on the correct Jehovah teachings and Will, after their exile in Babylon! See:





http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Rabbinic%20Judaism%20(Pharisaic%20Judaism).htm



http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Rabbinic%20Judaism%20(Pharisaic%20Judaism).htm



http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/The%20Scribes%20and%20Pharisees.htm







Rev. 20 V.14 And death and Hell (properly translated "the grave") were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.



Rev. 20 V.15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.



In summary of all of the above, the popular myth of “hell” is not accurate to Scripture, and should be translated "grave" in many instances throughout the Bible. The fact that the AD 1611 Translators mistakenly implied that "Hell" is destroyed in V14 above, gives the impression that a place for punishment of God's enemies by God Almighty, is removed, is wrong! The place of destruction and punishment is clearly described in Revelation Chapters 14 and 20, see: http://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Hell's%20Punishment.htm



All people that have died from Adam to before the Rapture of the "Church;" (correctly described by Paul "the Body of Christ",) are subject to being "raised" by Almighty God; for one or other of the "judgements," as described in Scripture.



The Jewish people have their own specific "raising" and Judgement; as theirs is a special case as the "chosen people."



No person (Jew or Gentile) is cast into the "Lake of Fire" until they have been raised and "evaluated" by Almighty God, from the "Book of Life," which is the "Great White Throne Judgement" which takes place at the end of "The Millennial Reign" (Rev. 20.)



Those that have resisted God's Love and Will since Eden will be so destroyed etc, (Rev. 20:15), as described in Rev. Chapters 14 and 20. That resistance and its many forms, paganism, necromancy, including deliberate miss-teaching and deliberate distortion of God's Word are included!



Christians (Christ -Ones,) are not subject to the "Great White Throne Judgement," but to a one to One meeting with Christ Jesus Himself, and all that is not worthy will be burned away (1Cor. 3:15.) This takes place after the Rapture Event.



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Benoni

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lloydnook,

Looks like you have a lot of religous bias mixed your attack on purgatory. It would be far more beneficial to look at each subject in depth instead of posting this hugh hodpodge of information. How about looking at what God's Word has to say about fire, hell indepth instead these long post based on whatever.
 

Benoni

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Let us start with this assesment:

If it is not of Christ, then billions of people have been deceived. The Ecumenical movement is not of God, the Roman Charismatic Movement is not of God, and Roman Catholics (RCs), are heading for spiritual disaster!

If we study the life of a person from birth to death, in the context of the Roman Catholic Church (R.C.C.) practices and Sacraments, and compare them to what the Bible (the Word of God) says, if the RCC is of God, then they should compliment each other.

I am not a Catholic, in fact I do not believe in any religion Catholic or Protestant for they are all headed for spiritual disaster. Religious men follow their religion and reject Christ. So what is your point.

I agree with you that billions of people are being deceived, but God is in total control of all things.
 
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jerryjohnson

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I am puzzled why Catholics teach and believe in purgatory. Can anyone explain this to me?



Why is there such a need to discuss Catholicism or any particular religion? This is supposed to be a Bible study forum not a comparative religion class. Those that are pro-Catholicism will never agree with Protestantism and vice versa. No amount of arguing is going to change someone’s mind, so why even discuss the differences?

Actually, James, I think you just want to continue the fight.
 
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Benoni

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All religions go back to Babylon. Look at Easter and its origin. Easter is far more then just a Pagan word from Babylon. Below we find the KJV totally mistranslating the word Passover and inserting the word for the Chaldean goddess (Baal), the queen of heaven

Acts 12:4
And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.


EASTER

pascha ^3957^, mistranslated "Easter" in <Acts 12:4>, KJV, denotes the Passover (RV). The phrase "after the Passover" signifies after the whole festival was at an end. The term "Easter" is not of Christian origin. It is another form of Astarte, one of the titles of the Chaldean goddess, the queen of heaven. The festival of Pasch held by Christians in post-apostolic times was a continuation of the Jewish feast, but was not instituted by Christ, nor was it connected with Lent. From this Pasch the pagan festival of "Easter" was quite distinct and was introduced into the apostate Western religion, as part of the attempt to adapt pagan festivals to Christianity. See PASSOVER.

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)
(Copyright (C) 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)


Look what God’s Word speaks of such heresy….

Rom 11:3-6
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
(KJV)


EASTER

pascha ^3957^, mistranslated "Easter" in <Acts 12:4>, KJV, denotes the Passover (RV). The phrase "after the Passover" signifies after the whole festival was at an end. The term "Easter" is not of Christian origin. It is another form of Astarte, one of the titles of the Chaldean goddess, the queen of heaven. The festival of Pasch held by Christians in post-apostolic times was a continuation of the Jewish feast, but was not instituted by Christ, nor was it connected with Lent. From this Pasch the pagan festival of "Easter" was quite distinct and was introduced into the apostate Western religion, as part of the attempt to adapt pagan festivals to Christianity. See PASSOVER.
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words)
(Copyright (C) 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

BAAL

(ba'-al:) (ba`al; or Baal): The Babylonian Belu or Bel, "Lord," was the title of the supreme god among the Canaanites.
-------------------
I. NAME AND CHARACTER OF BAAL
II. ATTRIBUTES OF BAAL
III. BAAL-WORSHIP
IV. TEMPLES, ETC.
V. USE OF THE NAME
VI. FORMS OF BAAL
.. 1. Baal-berith
.. 2. Baal-gad
.. 3. Baal-hamon
.. 4. Baal-hermon
.. 5. Baal-peor
.. 6. Baal-zebub
-------------------
I. Name and Character of Baal:-- In Babylonia it was the title specially applied to Merodach of Babylon, which in time came to be used in place of his actual name. As the word in Hebrew also means "possessor," it has been supposed to have originally signified, when used in a religious sense, the god of a particular piece of land or soil. Of this, however, there is no proof, and the sense of "possessor" is derived from that of "lord." The Babylonian Bel-Merodach was a Sun-god, and so too was the Canaanite Baal whose full title was Baal-Shemaim, "lord of heaven." The Phoenician writer Sanchuniathon (Philo Byblius, Fragmenta II) accordingly says that the children of the first generation of mankind "in time of drought stretched forth their hands to heaven toward the sun; for they regarded him as the sole Lord of heaven, and called him Beel-samen, which means `Lord of Heaven' in the Phoenician language and is equivalent to Zeus in Greek." Baal-Shemaim had a temple at Umm el-Awamid between Acre and Tyre, and his name is found in inscriptions from the Phoenician colonies of Sardinia and Carthage.
II. Attributes o Baal.:-- As the Sun-god, Baal was worshipped under two aspects, beneficent and destructive. On the one hand he gave light and warmth to his worshippers; on the other hand the fierce heats of summer destroyed the vegetation he had himself brought into being. Hence, human victims were sacrificed to him in order to appease his anger in time of plague or other trouble, the victim being usually the first-born of the sacrificer and being burnt alive. In the Old Testament this is euphemistically termed "passing" the victim "through the fire" <2 Kin 16:3; 21:6>. The forms under which Baal was worshipped were necessarily as numerous as the communities which worshipped him. Each locality had its own Baal or divine "Lord" who frequently took his name from the city or place to which he belonged. Hence, there was a Baal-Zur, "Baal of Tyre"; Baal-hermon, "Baal of Hermon" <Judg 3:3>; Baal-Lebanon, "Baal of Lebanon"; Baal-Tarz, "Baal of Tarsus." At other times the title was attached to the name of an individual god; thus we have Bel-Merodach, "the Lord Merodach" (or "Bel is Merodach") at Babylon, Baal-Melkarth at Tyre, Baal-gad <Josh 11:17> in the north of Palestine. Occasionally the second element was noun as in Baal-Shemaim, "lord of heaven," Baalzebub <2 Kin 1:2>, "Lord of flies," Baal-Hamman, usually interpreted "Lord of heat," but more probably "Lord of the sunpillar," the tutelary deity of Carthage. All these various forms of the Sun-god were collectively known as the Baalim or "Baals" who took their place by the side of the female Ashtaroth and Ashtrim. At Carthage the female consort of Baal was termed Pene-Baal, "the face" or "reflection of Baal."
III. Baal-Worship.:-- In the earlier days of Hebrew history the title Baal, or "Lord," was applied to the national God of Israel, a usage which was revived in later times, and is familiar to us in the King James Version. Hence both Jonathan and David had sons called Merib-baal <1 Chr 8:31; 9:40> and Beeliada <1 Chr 14:7>. After the time of Ahab, however, the name became associated with the worship and rites of the Phoenician deity introduced into Samaria by Jezebel, and its idolatrous associations accordingly caused it to fall into disrepute. <Hosea 2:16> declares that henceforth the God of Israel should no longer be called Baali, "my Baal," and personal names like Esh-baal <1 Chr 8:33; 9:39>, and Beelinda into which it entered were changed in form, Baal being turned into bosheth which in Heb at any rate conveyed the sense of "shame."
IV. Temples, etc.:-- Temples of Baal at Samaria and Jerusalem are mentioned in 1:18; where they had been erected at the time when the Ahab dynasty endeavored to fuse Israelites and Jews and Phoenicians into a single people under the same national Phoenician god. Altars on which incense was burned to Baal were set up in all the streets of Jerusalem according to Jeremiah <Jer 11:13>, apparently on the flat roofs of the houses <Jer 32:29>; and the temple of Baal contained an image of the god in the shape of a pillar or Bethel <2 Kin 10:26-27>. In the reign of Ahab, Baal was served in Israel by 450 priests <1 Kin 18:19>, as well as by prophets <2 Kin 10:19>, and his worshippers wore special vestments when his ritual was performed <2 Kin 10:22>. The ordinary offering made to the god consisted of incense <Jer 7:9> and burnt sacrifices; on extraordinary occasions the victim was human <Jer 19:5>. At times the priests worked themselves into a state of ecstasy, and dancing round the altar slashed themselves with knives <1 Kin 18:26,28>, like certain dervish orders in modern Islam.
V. Use of the Name-- In accordance with its signification the name of Baal is generally used with the definite art.; in the Septuagint this often takes the feminine form, aischane "shame" being intended to be read. We find the same usage in <Rom 11:4>. The feminine counterpart of Baal was Baalah or Baalath which is found in a good many of the local names (see Baethgen, Beltrage zur semitischen Religionsgeschichte, 1888).
VI. Forms of Betal.-- Baal-berith
1. Baal-berith: ba`al berith; Baalberith, "Covenant Baal," was worshipped at Shechem after the death of Gideon <Judg 8:33; 9:4>. In <Judg 9:46> the name is replaced by El-berith, "Covenant-god." The covenant was that made by the god with his worshippers, less probably between the Israelites and the native Canaanites.
2. Baal-gad: Baal-gad ba`al gadh; Balagada, "Baal lord of good luck" (or "Baal is Gad") was the god of a town called after his name in the north of Pal, which has often been identified with Baalbek. The god is termed simply Gad in <Isa 65:11> the Revised Version, margin; where he is associated with Meni, the Assyrian Manu (AV "troop" and "number").
3. Baal-hamon: Baal-hamon ba`al hamon; Beelamon is known only from the fact that Solomon had a garden at a place of that name <Cant 8:11>. The name is usually explained to mean "Baal of the multitude," but the cuneiform tablets of the Tell el-Amarna age found in Palestine show that the Egyptian god Amon was worshipped in Canaan and identified there with the native Baal. We are therefore justified in reading the name Baal-Amon, a parallel to the Babylonian Bel-Merodach. The name has no connection with that of the Carthaginian deity Baal-hamman.
4. Baal-hermon: Baal-hermon ba`al chermon; Balaermon is found in the name of "the mountain of Baal-hermon" (<Judg 3:3>; compare <1 Chr 5:23>), which also bore the names of Hermort, Sirion and Shenir (Saniru in the Assyrian inscriptions), the second name being applied to it by the Phoenicians and the third by the Amorites <Deut 3:9>. Baal-hermon will consequently be a formation similar to Baal-Lebanon in an inscription from Cyprus; according to the Phoenician writer Sanchuniathon (Philo Byblius, Fragmenta II) the third generation of men "begat sons of surprising size and stature, whose names were given to the mountains of which they had obtained possession."
5. Baal-peor: Baal-peor ba`al pe`or; Beelphegor was god of the Moabite mountains, who took his name from Mount Peor <Num 23:28>, the modern Fa`ur, and was probably a form of Chemosh (Jerome, Comm., <Isa 15>). The sensual rites with which he was worshipped <Num 25:1-3> indicate his connection with the Phoenician Baal.
6. Baal-zebub: Baal-zebub ba`al zebhubh; Baalmuia Theos ("Baal the fly god") was worshipped at Ekron where he had famous oracle <2 Kin 1:2-3,16>. The name is generally translated "the Lord of flies," the Sun-god being associated with the flies which swarm in Palestine during the earlier summer months. It is met with in Assyrian inscriptions. In the New Testament the name assumes the form of Beelzebul Beelzeboul, in AV: BEELZEBUB (which see).
A. H. SAYCE
(from International Standard Bible Encylopaedia, Electronic Database Copyright (C) 1996 by Biblesoft)



The origins of this belief/practice, go back to ancient Babylon! The worship of the sun god Baal, was removed to ancient Egypt. On the alters of the sun god were placed sun shaped wafers, made of unleavened bread. These were consecrated by the Baal priests, and were supposedly magically transformed into the body of the sun god Osiris! This is called “transubstantiation”. They were then eaten, as eating their god, a type of Eucharist.
 

Rank Stranger

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Hell, hades and/or sheol are all very real, and are places for the souls of the dead (lost) to reside and to be tormented until the judgement. Some scholars maintain that hades is divided into two sections, the place of lost souls and the place of righteous souls, with the latter being referred to as Paradise. The residents of this area are almost certainly all Jews who found favor in the sight of God while living. But Paradise ceased to receive new residents at the instant that the Holy Spirit began to take up residence inside "borne again" believers. Once that New Covenant came into force, the believers in Christ who died went from life to life (in Heaven). I am not sure, but a case could certainly be made that the portion of Hades that received lost souls is still very active in that regard.

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Benoni

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Hell is nothing but a Teutonic pagan word that is not in the original language of the Bible. Actually there are four words mistranslated hell and this still does not make the word hell anything but PAGAN; look at the original language. I love how God’s people embrace such an evil word. Actually the word hell is not in the Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic the language the Bible was written in; but it comes from an Angle Saxon word “hel” meaning to bury. It is more then a mis-translation it a premeditated deliberate assault on scripture to in introduce the Teutonic pagan word


There are other translations like the Companion Bible King James Version, American Standard Version (1901), the Newberry Reference Bible (Still published by Kregal Publications), and the Riverside New Testament by Ballantine (1934) which contain footnotes, marginal readings and appendages which point out that several key Greek and Hebrew words regarding Hell have been MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible. I have a list of Bibles which show the translations that contain the word Hell as well as the ones that don’t in the text is NOT exhaustive--we are discovering more translations all the time in which the translators did not feel justified in using the Teutonic pagan word Hell to translate the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus.


Yes there is a Tar-ta-rus (tart rs) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1 an infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils not people. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

and a:

Ha-des(hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a) the home of the dead, beneath the earth B) the god of the underworld 2 Bible the state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament

and a:

She-ol (eol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] a place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead Note: translated in KJV about haft of scriptures as hell, the other haft as grave


and lastly a:

Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the gospel. This is the word the fundamental preachers love to use to burn up the sinner. They are the first to yell foul if something does not fit in context; BUT: Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; a place of constant burning of refuge. Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified bf God’s holy judgment. This word is used not for sinner, murders or liars; it is used with the word “BROTHER”.


God's people as well as the lost will be dealt with God's holy, rightous spiritual and most often symboliic fire (when speaking of revelation)MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible


Matthew 5:22

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.


Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature, it is the reaping of what Isreal had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that He is the only God, there is no other like Him.


Hell, hades and/or sheol are all very real, and are places for the souls of the dead (lost) to reside and to be tormented until the judgement. Some scholars maintain that hades is divided into two sections, the place of lost souls and the place of righteous souls, with the latter being referred to as Paradise. The residents of this area are almost certainly all Jews who found favor in the sight of God while living. But Paradise ceased to receive new residents at the instant that the Holy Spirit began to take up residence inside "borne again" believers. Once that New Covenant came into force, the believers in Christ who died went from life to life (in Heaven). I am not sure, but a case could certainly be made that the portion of Hades that received lost souls is still very active in that regard.

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gumby

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Why you ask, i think its just another tradition that man wants to throw into the mix instead of following gods word. In the churches eyes a little false tradition such as this could do a number of diffrent things: boost tithing and attendence each sunday, make people be more receptive to the pope instead of jesus. Theres no good in traditions it just leads to lies and more lies.
 

Adstar

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I am puzzled why Catholics teach and believe in purgatory. Can anyone explain this to me?


It is the lack of faith in the Atoning blood of the Messiah Jesus. It comes from a mindset that says we must pay for the gift of salvation by doing penance. The Gift of salvation is exactly that, a Gift. To think you can pay for eternity with God by doing penance for ones sins is vamity in the extreme.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
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