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marks

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Paul wrote that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwells no good thing.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Being born again of the Holy Spirit does not change the fact that we have been born of the flesh, first.

No it doesn't change that. But rebirth changes who we are now.

In me . . . that is, not in me, rather, in my flesh, nothing good lives. Isn't that what he's saying?
 

marks

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I do believe that we need to remain transparent before the Lord in order for the blood of Jesus to "continually cleanse us from all sin."
So if you decide to start hiding from God, this is sin, is it not?
 

justbyfaith

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No it doesn't change that. But rebirth changes who we are now.

In me . . . that is, not in me, rather, in my flesh, nothing good lives. Isn't that what he's saying?
No...

he is saying, in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells. (Romans 7:18).
 

marks

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Do you move back and forth from darkness into light and back into darkness at will?
 

Mr C

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There is a small but very important word found in (1Jn 1).

"IF"

It seems people have not notice this small but powerful word.

"IF" means "UPON THE CONDITION THAT."


That is a big "IF"

1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But
if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 ¶
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
 

Mr C

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There is no imaginary "lifestyle" that sets the tone. "He who is born of God doth not commit sin." Period. You might as well just say the theology of the Bible is that God will weigh your good against your bad, and that will determine the outcome of your destiny.

You are right it is not an imaginary lifestyle, it is a fact according to (1Jn 1:6-9).


1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


That My friend is the Lord telling man his obedient LIFESTYLE is essential to salvation. (Jn 14:15 ; 15:14)


(Rom. 6:16-18)

16. Decide who to serve
17. Obey a certain doctrine (6:3-6)
18. Being then FREED FROM SIN,ye became servants of righteousness.
 

justbyfaith

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But you are not cleansed of it?

Not if you are hiding from God; and are therefore not walking in the light as He is in the light (1 John 1:7)

Do you move back and forth from darkness into light and back into darkness at will?

Ideally, we should be walking in the light consistently. But I would say that yes it is possible to cease to be transparent before the Lord and then later to become transparent again.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


That My friend is the Lord telling man his obedient LIFESTYLE is essential to salvation. (Jn 14:15 ; 15:14)

While an obedient lifestyle may indeed be the result of walking in the light, it is not what walking in the light consists of. It consists of being transparent before God; practically 1 John 1:7 is tied to 1 John 1:9 in that confessing our sins is a practical method of walking in the light as He is in the light. He is then able to cleanse us from all sin / unrighteousness, so that our practical walk is holy as it is written in 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9.

Also, the Lord does not make an obedient lifestyle essential to salvation. Even if a man is spiritually uncircumcised, the righteousness of the Lord may be imputed to him (Romans 2:28-29, Romans 4:11). He justifies even the ungodly person (Romans 4:5). And, salvation is not based on our performance but on faith in Jesus alone (Galatians 2:16).

We know that if a man is genuinely saved through faith alone, that it will have an effect on his lifestyle. However, it is not that God bases our salvation on our lifestyle, but that if we are truly born again, our lifestyle will be affected for the better. Thus, if we do not have an obedient lifestyle, it can be determined that we have not been born again.

But again, we do not live an obedient lifestyle in order to be born again. We are born again through faith in Jesus Christ; and this produces an obedient lifestyle. If our salvation is evidenced by our lifestyle it does not mean that we are saved because we have an obedient lifestyle. We do not want to put the cart before the horse. The horse that pulls along our works in God is simple faith; which we are alone saved by and through.
 

marks

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But again, we do not live an obedient lifestyle in order to be born again.
Though you do say that if we are "not transparent", then we are not walking in the light, which means that our sins are not being cleansed, so how are we saved without our sins being cleansed? How does this not mean that our obedience isn't required to remain born again?

Much love!
 

justbyfaith

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Though you do say that if we are "not transparent", then we are not walking in the light, which means that our sins are not being cleansed, so how are we saved without our sins being cleansed? How does this not mean that our obedience isn't required to remain born again?

Much love!
I don't think that remaining transparent before the Lord would be qualified as obedience, per se.

I would consider it to be more along the lines of keeping an attitude.

Just like faith is an attitude that results in obedience, transparency is an attitude that results in sanctification.
 

CharismaticLady

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I KNOW you are a man of God, and I love that about you, but you tend to take short-cuts in teaching.

You remember, by CL's terms, I'm not a true Christian, I do not know God, I do not have true faith, because I commit sins. That's legalism. And that's what I oppose.

I'm not sure if it me you hate, or yourself. I can try to be your friend, but you seem very insecure and think the worst.
 

CharismaticLady

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Have you ever thought of "we" as mankind? You should.

1Jo 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
unsaved

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
saved

8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
unsaved

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
to be saved

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
unsaved. Mr. C have you ever asked yourself why 8 and 10 are not together? Why does 9 separate them, and why is 9 not after verse 10? It is because they are a list of contrasts - light vs. darkness.

Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
unsaved

Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
saved
 

justbyfaith

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Comparing verse 6 with verse 8, if we say that we have no sin, we walk in darkness.

These verses are definitely speaking of those who are unsaved.

The one who denies indwelling sin, is, therefore, unsaved.
 

marksman

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He's not.
He's also not a sinning apostle.
Ive explained this 40 times to justbyfaith, and he's not able to understand it.
So, i'll try you.

If im preaching to a group, and there are a few in the group who do not believe that sin exists, or do not believe they are sinners..
And they interrupt me and say....>"there is no such thing as sin, sin does not exist, we are not sinners".

Then i say....>"listen, if WE say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves.....etc".

So, i just said. "WE"< yet, im not talking about me, am i? Im only talking about THEM.... yet i said "we".
This is what Preachers to...they say "we" when they are talking about the group.

If you can see this, then find justbyfaith and try to get him to understand it, as he can't for the 7 weeks obo that ive been explaining this to him in many Threads.
Good luck.

He disagreed with you so he must be a legalist as everyone who disagrees with you is a legalist according to you. I am not saying that to be cantankerous. I am saying that because it is a fact.
 

marksman

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I think that you might be right. I can only conclude that John certainly wasn't a Christian because the Bible says... “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.” (3:6). “He that committeth sin is of the devil.” (3: 8). “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;” (3:9). “Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” (3:7). “For whatsoever is born of God overcommeth the world: and this is the victory that overcommeth the world, even our faith.” (5:4). “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and the wicked one toucheth him not.” (5:18). :eek:

from that list of verses, there are no Christians to be seen anywhere because the scripture says that if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. That means we are all liars.
 

Mr C

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Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

The branch lives.
The branch dies.
The branch is burned b/c it died.

(1Jn 1:6-9)
 

justbyfaith

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from that list of verses, there are no Christians to be seen anywhere because the scripture says that if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. That means we are all liars.
"having no sin" refers to indwelling sin, not practical sins.

A person can have indwelling sin and yet indwelling sin does not rule over him (Romans 6:14) so that he commits sins practically; because it (indwelling sin) is rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8).
 
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