Inspired from another thread going on at the moment - one of the more passionate conversations I've seen over decades seem to come on someone's understanding of the Godhead.
Respectfully I ask - I don't want this to be another thread explaining the Godhead as I've seen countless summaries - but rather a discussion focused on what is OK and what is not to the extent that one understands? What level of understanding is required? And what level of claims become heresy.
So - if someone believes what the bible says at face value - but can't get full grasp of the concept - is that OK, as long as they don't deny any scripture - or add to it - even if they're unable to reconcile the full concept?
As an example:
For numerous decades I have tried to get an understanding of this and beat myself over it when many others seem to sit in full confidence that they understand it all (even if some disagree with others) - yet being fully honest - I have been unable to come to a place where I am fully confident "I get it".I simply have not managed to grasp an understanding of the Godhead fully.
Rather I can only been able to get to a place where I accept what the bible says like a child accepts what their parents say - I accept, even though I don't fully understand.
As a result, I have currently rested on a conclusion that my small mind has no hope in understanding the full concept of the relationship between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. That I've been given a glimpse that I see dimly, in part only - but one day I know I will know fully - face to face, but that day has not yet come. (As per 1 Cor 13).
My greatest concerns don't come with what I or someone else doesn't understand - but rather what they deny. ie: I'm more concerned if if someone denies Jesus is the Son of God, and also if someone denies Jesus as God .
Is this OK? Or am I at fault for not having a full understanding?
A: Is this OK? (To worship God with the limited understanding of who He is, and a limited understanding of the relationship between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - or is a full understanding required for salvation - does one have to 'pick a side' so to speak)?
(I've heard many people say that if someone doesn't agree with them about the Godhead, then they're worshiping a different Jesus and a different God.)
B: Is the danger in not understanding fully, or is there greater danger in making absolute claims that can go against or deny scripture?
(I've heard people say that Jesus is not God for instance. I've heard people say that Jesus is the father, but in the flesh in another). Both have scripture to back them up, but it seems that they overlook (or at least understand scripture different to I).
Are genuine mistakes from misunderstanding's OK - or do mistakes mean someone is worshiping another God, and therefore is not saved?
At what point does the danger of heresy come in, and to what extend do we require an understanding of who Jesus is for salvation?
Respectfully I ask - I don't want this to be another thread explaining the Godhead as I've seen countless summaries - but rather a discussion focused on what is OK and what is not to the extent that one understands? What level of understanding is required? And what level of claims become heresy.
So - if someone believes what the bible says at face value - but can't get full grasp of the concept - is that OK, as long as they don't deny any scripture - or add to it - even if they're unable to reconcile the full concept?
As an example:
I believe that Jesus is the Son of God (as per Mat 3:17, 1 John 4:10, John 5:19)
I also believe that Jesus is the Word of God (as per John 1), and that Jesus created everything, and therefore He was not created. (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16).
I understand that Jesus is called Emmanuel - translated God with Us. (Isaiah 7:14).
I understand that there is only one God. (Deuteronomy 4:35-39, Deuteronomy 32:39, Mark 12:29-34, John 17:3)
I understand God alone is to be worshiped (Exodus 20:1-3, Exodus 34:14, Matthew 4:10, Luke 4:8, Revelation 22:8-9)
I understand that Jesus was worshiped and He allowed it (Matthew 2:11, Matthew 28:9, John 20:28, Matthew 28:17, Hebrews 1:6).
I understand Jesus never sinned and never went against the Father.
This is mind boggling. It appears as though Jesus is the Son of God, yet He is God. It appears as there are obvious distinctions (as Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father - Acts 7:55, Romans 8:34), yet He doesn't consider it robbery to be equal with God. (Phil 2:6).
I also believe that Jesus is the Word of God (as per John 1), and that Jesus created everything, and therefore He was not created. (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16).
I understand that Jesus is called Emmanuel - translated God with Us. (Isaiah 7:14).
I understand that there is only one God. (Deuteronomy 4:35-39, Deuteronomy 32:39, Mark 12:29-34, John 17:3)
I understand God alone is to be worshiped (Exodus 20:1-3, Exodus 34:14, Matthew 4:10, Luke 4:8, Revelation 22:8-9)
I understand that Jesus was worshiped and He allowed it (Matthew 2:11, Matthew 28:9, John 20:28, Matthew 28:17, Hebrews 1:6).
I understand Jesus never sinned and never went against the Father.
This is mind boggling. It appears as though Jesus is the Son of God, yet He is God. It appears as there are obvious distinctions (as Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father - Acts 7:55, Romans 8:34), yet He doesn't consider it robbery to be equal with God. (Phil 2:6).
For numerous decades I have tried to get an understanding of this and beat myself over it when many others seem to sit in full confidence that they understand it all (even if some disagree with others) - yet being fully honest - I have been unable to come to a place where I am fully confident "I get it".I simply have not managed to grasp an understanding of the Godhead fully.
Rather I can only been able to get to a place where I accept what the bible says like a child accepts what their parents say - I accept, even though I don't fully understand.
As a result, I have currently rested on a conclusion that my small mind has no hope in understanding the full concept of the relationship between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. That I've been given a glimpse that I see dimly, in part only - but one day I know I will know fully - face to face, but that day has not yet come. (As per 1 Cor 13).
My greatest concerns don't come with what I or someone else doesn't understand - but rather what they deny. ie: I'm more concerned if if someone denies Jesus is the Son of God, and also if someone denies Jesus as God .
Is this OK? Or am I at fault for not having a full understanding?
A: Is this OK? (To worship God with the limited understanding of who He is, and a limited understanding of the relationship between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - or is a full understanding required for salvation - does one have to 'pick a side' so to speak)?
(I've heard many people say that if someone doesn't agree with them about the Godhead, then they're worshiping a different Jesus and a different God.)
B: Is the danger in not understanding fully, or is there greater danger in making absolute claims that can go against or deny scripture?
(I've heard people say that Jesus is not God for instance. I've heard people say that Jesus is the father, but in the flesh in another). Both have scripture to back them up, but it seems that they overlook (or at least understand scripture different to I).
Are genuine mistakes from misunderstanding's OK - or do mistakes mean someone is worshiping another God, and therefore is not saved?
At what point does the danger of heresy come in, and to what extend do we require an understanding of who Jesus is for salvation?