Cessastionism ,What is it?

Enoch111 · Aug 5, 2020

amadeus said:
Was Jesus the one that did it? Where is that written?

If you are wondering whether Jesus brought revelations to an end in the book of Revelation, that should be quite obvious. It is written in Revelation itself.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John... I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star... For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book... (Rev 1:1; 22:16,18)

Anthony D'Arienzo · Aug 5, 2020

amadeus said:
Was Jesus the one that did it? Where is that written?

try luke24...25-27,44-47.

marksman · Aug 6, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
No bubble has been burst.
People writing books does not make it so.
Joseph Smith wrote a big book.

So we disregard every testimony book that has evet been written? Wow, that is a big and stupendous condemnation of all those authors that put pen to paper and told what happened to them.

By the way Marx wrote a book known as Das Kapital. I can assure you that it was so. And Richard Wurmbrand wrote a book describing the torture he went through at the hand of the Romanian Communists. I know it was so because I met him personally.

amadeus · Aug 6, 2020

Enoch111 said:
If you are wondering whether Jesus brought revelations to an end in the book of Revelation, that should be quite obvious. It is written in Revelation itself.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John... I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star... For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book... (Rev 1:1; 22:16,18)

OK but is that what I wondering or asking? Perhaps not! Maybe @Anthony D'Arienzo knows?

amadeus · Aug 6, 2020

@Anthony D'Arienzo

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
No bubble has been burst.
People writing books does not make it so.
Joseph Smith wrote a big book.

Amadeus said:
So did Moses as I understand it.!

Anthony said:
Yes he did, and Jesus and the Apostles approved of it and called it scripture.
He has not called anything scripture after revelation.

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
try luke24...25-27,44-47.

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." Luke 24:25-27

"And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." Luke 24:44-47

I am not arguing against what is written. Rather I am asking where is it written that after the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ God would remain silent? Where is it written that God would no longer be active within anyone any more working in and through the gifts given to men?

You may of course reverse the question back to me asking where it is written that God would still speak and the gifts would still be active in people. That's fine, but my point is that it is not all so black and white and clear cut as you see. What you see or believe is according to your interpretation or someone else's interpretation of what you read or understand in the written scripture. I and others have already given you scriptures, but you have a different understanding of them. That's OK because only God gives any real increase. If a person is not open hear of course he miss an increase directed toward him. That of course would apply to me as well as to you.

You believe in an Absolute Truth [AT] and I do too. The difference perhaps is that you believe you can state exactly what it is. What I believe is that only people who have overcome completely as Jesus did by the Holy Spirit can know exactly what is AT and what is only belief!

YeshuaFan1 · Aug 6, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
Yes he did, and Jesus and the Apostles approved of it and called it scripture.
He has not called anything scripture after revelation.

neither am i, but I do not think God cannot still do whatever he wants when he wants for his plans and purposes!

YeshuaFan1 · Aug 6, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
How exactly does He do that?

Did God not do signs and wonders to testify that Jesus indeed was Lord and Messiah of the Jews?
Why could he not being doing that now among Muslims, and then will move to only the scriptures, just as he did in Acts once the message and person of Jesus was confirmed?

Anthony D'Arienzo · Aug 6, 2020

"YeshuaFan1

neither am i, but I do not think God cannot still do whatever he wants when he wants for his plans and purposes!

Your failure to not base your view squarely on the completed scriptural testimony leaves you at a loss to contend for the once for all time faith that was delivered to the saints.Jude3

Did God not do signs and wonders to testify that Jesus indeed was Lord and Messiah of the Jews?

Yes, He did as was foretold by the Prophets of the OT. We have them recorded for us, those God wanted us to see in scripture.LK24:25-27,43-45

Did God not do signs and wonders to testify that Jesus indeed was Lord and Messiah of the Jews? among Muslims,[/QUOTE]
Because he is not going to violate His own word.REV.22:18,19

and then will move to only the scriptures, just as he did in Acts once the message and person of Jesus was confirmed?

Click to expand...

The scriptures are God-breathed for all men everywhere. We just need to deliver the message.
2tim3:16-17
Now using your reasoning and suggestions that are not scripturally based let's take a closer look at what that would result in!

You happen to run into a group of WOF, heretics at the airport. You challenge them they they are teaching falsely. They respond and say; God has spoken in the past through prophets,
[now we use your ideas, instead of scripture]
They say to you, hey Y1, I read the recent post you said;Did God not do signs and wonders to testify that Jesus indeed was Lord and Messiah of the Jews? Why could he not be doing that now???
You have nothing at all to say to them because you suggest it is up for grabs, and you cannot deny their experiences. You cannot Deny Catholics saying the virgin Mary appeared in France, or Medjugorje , or on a piece of toast. You are silenced. You are speaking from "your authority" rather than God given scripture

Anthony D'Arienzo · Aug 6, 2020

amadeus,

Hello Amadeus,

Luke 24:25-27

" Luke 24:44-47

I am not arguing against what is written.

Okay, glad we agree on that

Rather I am asking where is it written that after the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ God would remain silent?

Rev22:
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book,
If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Where is it written that God would no longer be active within anyone any more working in and through the gifts given to men?

God is active in all of the ministry gifts, not requiring new revelation, as revelation has ceased.

You may of course reverse the question back to me asking where it is written that God would still speak and the gifts would still be active in people. That's fine, but my point is that it is not all so black and white and clear cut as you see.

I believe it is I do not think we are to sound forth an uncertain sound and follow every wind of doctrine. eph4.11-16

What you see or believe is according to your interpretation or someone else's interpretation of what you read or understand in the written scripture. I and others have already given you scriptures, but you have a different understanding of them.

YES, I believe it is God given whatever truth comes our way, as long as it is scripture based.

That's OK because only God gives any real increase. If a person is not open hear of course he miss an increase directed toward him. That of course would apply to me as well as to you.

You believe in an Absolute Truth [AT] and I do too. The difference perhaps is that you believe you can state exactly what it is. What I believe is that only people who have overcome completely as Jesus did by the Holy Spirit can know exactly what is AT and what is only belief!

Thank you for your well thought out post. There is only one absolute truth and that is What God intended when He had the men write what they did.
The closer any of us get to truth depends on several factors. Clearly God does not give any one teacher or trusted guide ALL truth. That was only promised to the Apostles, but even that was subject to God giving what he wanted recorded for us.
I do not think I have arrived or have all truth. However, I post what I know,and people are welcome to agree or disagree with what I understand from scripture.
I avoid speculation when I can, and try to offer scripturally based replies.

Anthony D'Arienzo · Aug 7, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo

YeshuaFan1 · Aug 7, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
"YeshuaFan1

Your failure to not base your view squarely on the completed scriptural testimony leaves you at a loss to contend for the once for all time faith that was delivered to the saints.Jude3

Yes, He did as was foretold by the Prophets of the OT. We have them recorded for us, those God wanted us to see in scripture.LK24:25-27,43-45

You seem to want to box God in though, to say that he cannot do anything at all as he did back in NT times still!
I am not arguing for the Apostolic signs and wonders to be the norm today, buit God can still do anything that he desires to glorify the name of Jesus Christ!

Anthony D'Arienzo · Aug 7, 2020

YeshuaFan1 said:
You seem to want to box God in though, to say that he cannot do anything at all as he did back in NT times still!
I am not arguing for the Apostolic signs and wonders to be the norm today, buit God can still do anything that he desires to glorify the name of Jesus Christ!

You have no scriptural response.
God has sealed revelation.
You cannot deny any wof false teacher, as they can say the same thing to you.
I will not deviate from scripture and what it teaches.It is not both at the same time.
Someone can claim they saw two okra stalks appear and preach the every lasting gospel, and you have to thank God for working outside the box.
you cannot question it, you have given up a scriptural base.
when you do that here, you will do it with all doctrine.
No one is called to believe the ideas and experience of Y1, but rather scripture.

amadeus · Aug 7, 2020

@Anthony D'Arienzo

Newamadeus,
Hello Amadeus,

Luke 24:25-27
" Luke 24:44-47

Amadeus said:
I am not arguing against what is written.

Anthony said:
Okay, glad we agree on that

Amadeus said:
Rather I am asking where is it written that after the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ God would remain silent?

Anthony said:
Rev22:
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book,
If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Amadeus said:
Where is it written that God would no longer be active within anyone any more working in and through the gifts given to men?

Anthony said:
God is active in all of the ministry gifts, not requiring new revelation, as

revelation has ceased.

I guess my mind being what it is not, I had forgotten precisely where you stood on this. My simple response is that God indeed has already spoken about all that pertains to us [His revelation], that is to men. However, not every man has heard all that he could hear or needs to hear. Until the Word of God on a thing is written on/in a man's heart that man is at best a mixture of truth and of other things. When he opens his mouth not led by the Spirit some of those other things will also come forth... thus James writes of the double minded man.

Amadeus said:

You may of course reverse the question back to me asking where it is written that God would still speak and the gifts would still be active in people. That's fine, but my point is that it is not all so black and white and clear cut as you see.

Anthony said:

I believe it is I do not think we are to sound forth an uncertain sound and follow every wind of doctrine. eph4.11-16

We are to follow the voice of God that we hear. People are also hearing the voice of strangers because of their own in a measure, double mindedness: Mixtures!

Amadeus said:

What you see or believe is according to your interpretation or someone else's interpretation of what you read or understand in the written scripture. I and others have already given you scriptures, but you have a different understanding of them.

Anthony said:

YES, I believe it is God given whatever truth comes our way, as long as it is scripture based.

Citing the scripture can a good thing but lots of people on pulpits [or not] as well as on forums like this cite scripture and miss God because it is not interpreted by the Holy Spirit in them. Remember that the devil quoted scripture at Jesus and Jesus rebuked him with these words:
"...It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matt 4:7

Amadeus said:

That's OK because only God gives any real increase. If a person is not open hear of course he miss an increase directed toward him. That of course would apply to me as well as to you.

You believe in an Absolute Truth [AT] and I do too. The difference perhaps is that you believe you can state exactly what it is. What I believe is that only people who have overcome completely as Jesus did by the Holy Spirit can know exactly what is AT and what is only belief!

Anthony said:
Thank you for your well thought out post. There is only one absolute truth and that is What God intended when He had the men write what they did.

The closer any of us get to truth depends on several factors. Clearly God does not give any one teacher or trusted guide ALL truth. That was only promised to the Apostles, but even that was subject to God giving what he wanted recorded for us.
I do not think I have arrived or have all truth. However, I post what I know,and people are welcome to agree or disagree with what I understand from scripture.
I avoid speculation when I can, and try to offer scripturally based replies.

Yes, what God inspired men to write [scripture] contains God's Truth, but without the same God working as an interpreter [the Holy Spirit] in a person that person cannot know and speak that Truth!

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

[God;] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." II Cor 3:6

"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28

YeshuaFan1 · Aug 7, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
You have no scriptural response.
God has sealed revelation.
You cannot deny any wof false teacher, as they can say the same thing to you.
I will not deviate from scripture and what it teaches.It is not both at the same time.
Someone can claim they saw two okra stalks appear and preach the every lasting gospel, and you have to thank God for working outside the box.
you cannot question it, you have given up a scriptural base.
when you do that here, you will do it with all doctrine.
No one is called to believe the ideas and experience of Y1, but rather scripture.

scriptures tells us that the scriptures are now completed, and that God is no longer sending forth any additional revelations to us, but also states that God can confirm the message of the Lord Jesus as being true by signs and wonders in where the message is new and being challenged as not being true, would that not mean Islam?
Does God do any healings today at all among the redeemed then?

Anthony D'Arienzo · Aug 7, 2020

YeshuaFan1 said:
scriptures tells us that the scriptures are now completed, and that God is no longer sending forth any additional revelations to us, but also states that God can confirm the message of the Lord Jesus as being true by signs and wonders in where the message is new and being challenged as not being true, would that not mean Islam?
Does God do any healings today at all among the redeemed then?

Where do you think it says that???
Where does it say anything close to that???

This is why our faith must be doctrinally rooted in scripture, not our imagination.
Notice you did not reply to how you can answer anyone who goes outside of scripture, except to"make it up as you go"

Sabertooth · Aug 8, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
Can any non-cessationist define this?

FYI, our position is called Continuationism.

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
In other words what scriptures are used to teach this?

Yes & no.

Yes, we can point to a Scriptural basis for the practice.
No, not enough to convince you, if you do not want to be convinced.

It is the Holy Spirit's job to pique your appetite for it in the first place. Until then, it will hold no appeal for you.

Candidus · Aug 8, 2020

historyb said:
It has. There was a missionary retired i my Church before he went home to Christ and he was in Africa when he was younger and he even saw people being raised from the dead. In America our faith is inadequate, we want to much rationalization and control instead of let God have control

Anecdotal claims are common. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof!

Anthony D'Arienzo · Aug 8, 2020

Sabertooth said:
FYI, our position is called Continuationism.

Yes & no.

Yes, we can point to a Scriptural basis for the practice.

No, not enough to convince you, if you do not want to be convinced.

It is the Holy Spirit's job to pique your appetite for it in the first place. Until then, it will hold no appeal for you.

Well stated. I can offer the verses you would look to offer to support your position.
You are correct also that I do not find them compelling.
I offer what the believing church has understood through history..

YeshuaFan1 · Aug 8, 2020

Candidus said:
Anecdotal claims are common. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof!

That I would totally agree with, but my point is that thetre are indeed several Muslims who came to faith in the real Jesus who are claiming dreams and visions led them to investigate the Bible and its claims!

YeshuaFan1 · Aug 8, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
Well stated. I can offer the verses you would look to offer to support your position.
You are correct also that I do not find them compelling.
I offer what the believing church has understood through history..

Do you hold that God can do no healings or miracles directly any more period then?

Cessastionism ,What is it?

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