Boundaries

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madenew

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Jan 18, 2010
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Hi,

This is my first post here, although I've posted in the newcomers section. I'm a girl, and I have two male friends in my life with whom I'm having boundary issues. One has been a friend for a long time. His mother just passed away, so he's going through a rough time. He and I dated once, but haven't in years. The problem is that he isn't a christian, yet for the last few months he's been as flirty as possible, while at the same time trying to convince me that I'm mistaken in my faith in Christ. He tried to kiss me a couple weeks ago. I was actually thinking of dating him, in spite of our differences. But he informed me that he's not attracted to me and I need to do what he does and "better myself" by working out and trying to loose weight (I'm not heavy, but I don't have tomboy legs like my sister does, who he's more attracted to). I feel really hurt by what he said, especially after he's spent so much time "romancing" me. Taking me out to dinner, holding my hands when standing in the fall leaves, and attempting to cuddle with me - which I wouldn't let him. I'm one of his only real friends. And he's going through a terrible time with the loss of his mother. But I just don't feel like I can take our relationship any longer. If he acted like just a friend, I think I could, but he's too touchy feeling and he gives mixed signals. Is it o.k. for me to ask for separation, in spite of being one of his only friends, and it being such a bad time for him?

Then there's another guy. I thought of him as just a friend. I was carpooling with him to my small group and set up a date with someone else on the phone. Immediately he became really angry and drove like crazy. Then he informed me that he liked me (which he'd given no signs of before). On the way home he told me that nobody has made him feel so insignificant and unworthy as me. I invited him to my group, even though he was a non-christian because he seemed interested. I did not think his interest was in me. Now he tells me that the whole thing has been fake, and I'm feeling as if he's saying everything he's learned about christ has been fake because I was not a good christian to him. I feel like he is manipulating me. I've been thinking of leaving this small group to go to one at my home church some time now (not because of him). I was going to ask him if he wanted to come with me. But I don't want to. I just want to start over with a new group that's part of the community of believers I want to be more a part of. But I'm struggling with how angry he's going to be over this.

So any help with these issues would be much appreciated.
thanks!
Nikki
 

gumby

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May 29, 2009
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Hi there i have some advice for you, dont associate with either until they change there corrupt ways also quote these scriptures to them and see what they say. James 1:26, James 1:27, Psalms 146:9 and Psalms 147:6.

God bless :)
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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Im with gumby here neither of these two guys are worth your time they are both much more concerned with themselves than anyone else
one thinks you should be more like him ego and pride driven .... you know thats wrong. He is saying if you do this and that you might be good enough for me ..You dont need that no one does
The other wants to blame you for his shortcomings you are a child of God you need to take the blame for anybodys shortcomings ..It not your fault if he cant accept God as real its his choice ... Do what your gut is telling you leave ...So what if he's angry he already is looking to blame you for his problem ... Perhaps God is trying to get you to group where Mr right is waiting ...go check it out and forget these two ......
 

HammerStone

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The problem is that he isn't a christian, yet for the last few months he's been as flirty as possible, while at the same time trying to convince me that I'm mistaken in my faith in Christ. He tried to kiss me a couple weeks ago. I was actually thinking of dating him, in spite of our differences. But he informed me that he's not attracted to me and I need to do what he does and "better myself" by working out and trying to loose weight (I'm not heavy, but I don't have tomboy legs like my sister does, who he's more attracted to).

Excuse my blunt nature here, but let me make some things clear for you my dear.

Number one - which even the world will tell you - when you have someone who tells you that you need to change for them, then it will most decidedly not work out. This almost goes doubly so for this scenario. I'm not a fan of anyone changing to or from any religion simply for marriage. It reminds me in some senses of the moneychangers in the temple. It makes faith a commodity. Secondly, this person doesn't sound like they're even worth much as a friend. There are things you just don't say to people and there are certainly ways to treat a woman and friend. I feel like this kind of relationship is the reason God said don't unevenly yoke yourself with unbelievers. It's not a bad thing that you are friends with him simply because he doesn't believe in God; who knows, you might be the reason he believes legitimately one day. You're showing him that Christian love, and that's a wonderful thing. However, there comes a point where it's unhealthy to have someone full of negativity and borderline insults.

II Corinthians 6:14 ESV
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?

Note that the Apostle Paul spoke to the Corinthians here. He's not saying be holier than thou and don't associate with them. Far from it. Instead, he means don't let them drag you down. I get a sense that it might be going on here.

As for the second, it sounds worse than the first. These two - thank God - aren't you're only choices. Like Christina said, Mr. Right is out there - he's not just there with these two. Welcome to one of the ways the old enemy works. Guys are awkward around women - especially pretty ones that they might have a liking for - but being awkward is one thing. Faking things and trying to make them feel guilty is another. Ask yourself this, are you going to want your boyfriend/fiancee/husband making you feel guilty every time you do something he doesn't like? That's not a happy life. When they try to change you - well let me tell you from experience that with true love, you love the person regardless of faults or defects. You don't want to make the other person feel bad.
 

Redeemed22

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Nov 10, 2009
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Citizen of Heaven
Madenew,
As a 20 year old guy (21 on Friday), I would like to offer my perspective.

I have heard it said that a girl's heart should be so entrenched in God that a guy would have to come to God to ever find her.

The one thing I wish somebody would have told me when I was like 10 is that not only do Christians need physical boundaries to have God glorifying relationships, but also emotional boundaries. I always assumed that more emotion= good. More intimacy = good. I should have read Proverbs 4:23. We are stewards, even of our emotions.

This is why we shouldn't be yoked with unbelievers (2 Corinthians 6:14).

We are also not to be bound to anything. We are free for a purpose. (Galatians 5:1).

We are not our own. We were bought at a price (1 Corinthians 6:20) We are to honor God with our bodies.

We are to take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ. (2 Corinthians 10:5)

We aren’t supposed to think about just anything. (Philippians 4:8)

For some stupid reason, it never clicked in my mind that who I had a crush on, how I thought about her, and what my romantic intensions were, all belong to Christ. I was conforming to the pattern of the world, which says "I'll do what I want." Physically, I wasn't generally crossing barriers (except in my mind, which is also destructive), but I was living foolishly and collecting scars accordingly.

Now, with the foundation set (that our relationships and romantic intentions belong to God), let me suggest (with full confidence)

1) If God has not placed you on a guy's heart (to date and/or marry), that guy has NO AUTHORITY to date or marry you, much less tell you that you need to eat less or exercise more. Same applies to you about him.
2) A guy, even if the dating relationship is supported by God, has no authority to gain physical gratification from you. None. The body is not for immorality, but for the Lord. See 1 Corinthians 6:13. When a couple is married, then the wife and husband belong to each other.
3) You are a princess, a daughter of the living God, and you are more than any guy, especially the two you mentioned, could ever deserve. Your identity is from Christ, not from a boyfriend. You are a princess. Don't let anyone take that away from you!
4) As a rule of thumb, a guy should never date a girl that he wouldn't leave better off spiritually when the dating relationship ended compared to when it began. Visa versa. However see caution near the bottom*
5) Never date someone who you wouldn't marry. I would even go as far as to say don't date until marriage is realistic. (For example, a fourteen-year-old has nothing to gain and much to lose in dating)

My views have been totally revolutionized. Not only do I look at girls completely differently now, but my emotional wounds from the past are healing, I no longer worry about marriage, and I don't feel insecure anymore. It may sound constricting to say that our relationships don't belong to us, but let me testify that the fruit of doing things my way is destruction, and the fruit of surrendering is freedom. I feel emotionally free, and emotionally satisfied.


Now then, suppose that you are dating a guy and the situation isn't in violation of those things I wrote and any other Biblical principles that you know of. What are some practical methods for setting up boundaries?

First, both persons must be willing to lay down the relationship if God wants. This is a prerequisite, or you are probably setting boundaries out of legalism. Boundaries don't bring purity. Boundaries are reminders and warnings. Approaching a boundary should send you running to God and to those who are discipling you. Otherwise, the boundaries begin migrating! They are sneaky.

The Bible warns us about sensuality...ie...arousing passions. Keep in mind that you are not married. Anything that arouses passions should be strictly avoided, so that you aren’t in bondage by negative emotions.

Practically, here are some situations that typically increase vulnerability or arouse bad emotions.

1) If you are alone with a guy late at night, this almost inevitably fosters bad emotions. I remember several very late nights hanging out alone with this girl who I had no romantic interest in (and visa versa). I began struggling with impure thoughts. There is something about night time and being alone that is emotionally (and obviously physically) risky for couples and even mixed gender friends. Maybe set a “bed time” or “curfew”? Don't hang out after 8 unless other people are there? You'll have to adjust to your specific needs, but be proactive.
2) Some kissing. Some people may be offended by this. Hear me out. Some kissing arouses those passions, and other kissing doesn't (you know what I am talking about!). For some couples, maybe all does. Better safe than sorry. Want some real, healthy intimacy? Go witness together. Don't make the whole kissing thing legalistic, but don't compromise with Satan. Make NO provision for the flesh (Romans 13:14).
3) Not spending enough time with other people. God doesn't put us in a community of believers that we should just spend time with one.
4) Praying together, especially alone. Now don't hear me wrong. Short prayers, emergency prayer, and other scenarios exist where there is little risk. But from my experience (and the experience of many people I have talked to about this) a guy and a girl praying together alone is a bad situation.
*5) Being spiritual doctors for each other. Yes, you should build each other up, encourage each other, challenge each other, and share insight, but it is unwise to either person to become the spiritual leader/doctor of the other. Rely on church leadership. When Paul said that the women should teach the younger women, and the men should teach the younger men, he wasn't demeaning either sex, but giving purposeful instruction. A girlfriend shouldn't dig into every emotional wound of the boyfriend, and the boyfriend shouldn't be attempting to fix all the insecurities of the girlfriend (both visa versa). There are levels of emotional intimacy that are only appropriate for marriage. To seek deep intimacy regardless creates a huge distraction from intimacy from God and the church.

I would give $10,000 for somebody to go back in time and tell me all that. I don't even have the money.

-Redeemed22

PS... a lot of what we consider common sense about dating was completely absent from the culture in Bible times. They didn't recreationally date. Sometimes a couple would have met only a few times before being married. They did just fine (by that I mean better than our culture). Our "dating"/"courting" nowadays as Christians has no need (but more likely great reason not to) look much at all like the dating in the broader modern culture. Personally, I wouldn't be suprised if I only ever date one woman (could be two or zero). I have no need to test dozens of them like shoes or cars. I don't need "practice". If I want to prepare for marriage I can make my bed, pay my bills, say my prayers, read my Bible, get discipled, and learn how to be a servant. That is a much better use of my time.
 

madenew

New Member
Jan 18, 2010
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Thank you all for the advice. It was good - every bit of it.

So, for an update, last night I informed the guy who says he likes me that I wouldn't be returning to our current small group. He didn't act crazy as last time, but seemed to try to convince me that we should try dating. But he kept saying that he has "powerful" feelings for me, and I just don't see how he can have those feelings when we barely know each other. He said he's submitted to God and belief in Christ now, and I just pray that he really does. I feel he needs a lot of healing. I hope he continues to attend my past group. Its turning into an all guys group now, and I really feel they'd be good for him. But I made it out of the car that night in one piece after telling him that we need to go our separate ways if we don't want to end up hurting one another (since he feels so strongly about me, but I don't feel I can reciprocate).

I am sooo excited about joining this group at my church. Its not a large church, and I think it would help me feel so much more a part of the community. I feel a lot of freedom in this decision.

As for the other guy, I have yet to talk to him. But he'll show up sometime (he doesn't tend to call, just shows up at the door). I agree with what Redeemed and others said about physical and emotional boundaries. With him I was fooled into thinking by denying his constant physical advances, I could still be as emotionally intimate with him as I wanted. I've told him stuff before I've told nobody. But he's tried to take what's most precious to me (my faith) and destroy it. My sister says he only did it because I did it to him. I don't know how it got started, I think because you can't really have a relationship with me without the issue of faith coming up. What Jesus has done matters more to me than anything else in the world. I just kept thinking that since he says he was once a believer (for a short time in college), he would come back once he saw the truth and the very reality that I feel in Christ. I think there's a difference between discussing something and genuinely trying to persuade someone out of their belief. I was wrong. I thought we were having a debate about truth, but I think its a worldview problem (and maybe other issues). But he did tell me that. He told me he's tried Christianity and received nothing and will not go back there. But I wasn't truly listening to what he was saying. He says I can't see the forest for the trees (at which point I asked, but what if one of them is the tree of life?) The trees here represent the different religions of the world.

My sister says that we need to embrace him when he shows up for the sake of the fact that his mother just died. I wanted to tell him how I'm feeling. I've decided to be kind, but not to let him do anything one to one with me again. The thing is, I don't really want him around my sister. He's really touchy feely around all girls, and now she's thinking she might like him. Her faith is newer and not really solid. I don't want him trying to show her the error of her ways. But I don't really know what I can do about it. I wrote him a letter telling him how I feel, but don't think I can give it to him considering his mother. I know he's going to be hurt by my decision, try to persuade me to hang out and discuss things, and feel its likely that when I turn him down he's going to do everything he can to hang out with my sister. He doesn't really have any close friends. I gave him the book "The Pilgrem's Regress" by C.S. Lewis for Christmas, and he actually says he likes what he's read of it. I feel there's hope for him. But like I said in my letter to him, we just haven't had a healthy relationship, and I can't return to that. I tried to set a boundary of just hanging out with him in groups before, but he managed to sneak his way back in. The truth is, I'd like the freedom of going our separate ways with him. But I think he'll show up for my sister, and I will still have to see him.
 

Redeemed22

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Nov 10, 2009
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Citizen of Heaven
You sound like you are making lots of tough decisions. I'll pray about you, your sister, and the guy whose mother died. Do you think it would speak to your sister to explain that an emotional entaglement with this guy will actually make the situation worse for him? That a romantic relationship might temporarily ease some pain but will ultimately interfere with his healing?
 

madenew

New Member
Jan 18, 2010
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Thanks for your prayers, Redeemed. I think talking to my sister would be a good idea. She's thinking of leaving her current boyfriend for him.

You sound like you are making lots of tough decisions. I'll pray about you, your sister, and the guy whose mother died. Do you think it would speak to your sister to explain that an emotional entaglement with this guy will actually make the situation worse for him? That a romantic relationship might temporarily ease some pain but will ultimately interfere with his healing?