• Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Bobby Jo

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2019
8,041
3,778
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To me, the primary pillar of faith and proof of prophecy is the existence of the nation of Israel.

There are two major themes in the Bible. The first is the genealogy of Jesus, tracing His family tree from Adam through to his birth. Then it all stops. That theme in the Bible is now complete and all genealogical records destroyed with the destruction of the Temple.

The second major theme is the restoration of Israel in the Millenial Kingdom under the One Anointed, the seed of David.

What is the melody without the harmony?!?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Alternately, you can tear out any offending pages, use an Exacto knife to remove selected verses, or use a Sharpie. But be careful that you don't remove or blot out verses you DO LIKE on the other side of the pages.


Whew,
Bobby Jo
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stan B

Stan B

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2019
1,967
983
113
81
Toronto
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
@Stan B


It's a simple test. -- Is there a "DIVIDED KINGDOM" after the Roman Empire, which consists of THREE SUPERPOWERS and a UNITED NATIONS:

Dan. 2:41 And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom ...

Are the participants of this "DIVIDED KINGDOM" accurately represented by the LION (U.K.) & EAGLE (U.S.); and the BEAR (Russia); and the LEOPARD, which is actually a TIGER, -- vertically marked versus circularly marked --, (China); and a DREADFUL BEAST (United Nations)?

Or perhaps your (and @Stan B 's) understanding is FALSE dogma and doctrines, -- instead of Scripture and History --, which you reject along with GOD.
Bobby Jo
Interesting perspective.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobby Jo

Bobby Jo

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2019
8,041
3,778
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Interesting perspective.

... more importantly, a Modern fulfillment complies the angels instructions in Dan. 12:

Dan. 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
... 9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

... versus the purported Ancient fulfillments which Walvoord's own SCHOLARS refute -- but which Walvoord DISCARDED in deference to the FALSE Scripture and FALSE History "Classical Interpretation" version.


Of course the commentators should have remained silent, but they were expected to "have all the answers", and so they gave their "best lies". But now that this generation has sufficient hind-sight, we can and MUST consider explanations that conform to the angel's insistence to wait until a Modern History era. :)

Bobby Jo
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stan B

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
... more importantly, a Modern fulfillment complies the angels instructions in Dan. 12:

Dan. 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
... 9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

... versus the purported Ancient fulfillments which Walvoord's own SCHOLARS refute -- but which Walvoord DISCARDED in deference to the FALSE Scripture and FALSE History "Classical Interpretation" version.


Of course the commentators should have remained silent, but they were expected to "have all the answers", and so they gave their "best lies". But now that this generation has sufficient hind-sight, we can and MUST consider explanations that conform to the angel's insistence to wait until a Modern History era. :)

Bobby Jo

Bobby, Just because you say it is so, does not mean that it is so. More proof is required to convince people that their, i.e. people like you, respective understanding of the End Times Prophecies are in line with God's word. So far all you have done is tried to poke holes in other peoples' understanding so that all that is left is your spruiked understanding of the End Time prophecies and even your views can be likened to a steel rusty bucket with many holes in it such that it cannot hold the truth in it.
 

prism

Blood-Soaked
Jan 24, 2011
1,895
834
113
So. Cal
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Revelation 1:3 KJV
[3] Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobby Jo

Bobby Jo

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2019
8,041
3,778
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Dan. 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
... 9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

Bobby, Just because you say it is so ....
I guess you're calling GOD a liar. -- Seems a little (read: LOT) foolish.

Bobby Jo
 
Last edited:

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,760
2,523
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Dan. 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
... 9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.


I guess you're calling GOD a liar. -- Seems a little (read: LOT) foolish.

Bobby Jo

No, just you, because of your lack of understanding. You say that you speak from God's word, but what you speak is from your twisting of God's word to support what you push as the Truth in your mind.
 

Bobby Jo

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2019
8,041
3,778
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, just you, ...

Dan. 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
... 9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

It's ok to criticize GOD's Word. Perhaps you'd like to tear some pages out of your bible, or use an Exacto® Knife or a Sharpie®. I'm quite confident there will be no consequences.
Bobby Jo

To All,
My irreplaceable RSV has TWO pages torn out by a young man that didn't think Bible Prophecy had any value. After he tore out the first I asked if he was done, and apparently he wasn't because he then tore out a second page.

Such is Christianity.
Bobby Jo
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,929
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Problems With End Times Prophecy
OP ^

"A problem"...is ONLY A problem,
OF, an individual, who lacks understanding.

An individual, who HAS the Answer, HAS the understanding OF the Answer...which Means That individual HAS NO problem.

Truth OT-
You clearly have identified "yourself" without belief, without faith.

That ^ I absolutely believe is True.

You clearly have revealed "You have a problem" with "end times Prophecy".

That ^ I absolutely believe is True.

You appear to be making an effort for someone to solve "your problem" FOR you.

Clue:
No man, can solve "your problem" For you.
No man, can have belief or faith or understanding "For you".

Belief, is An individuals own Freewill will, to believe, or Not.
Faith is a Gift from God. That Gift Begins, being given in "increments" (bit by bit) when an individual, Freely elects TO Hear, (read, Receive), the Word of God.

Hearing, is merely a Beginning. An introduction.
It has nothing to do with Belief or Understanding.
When you open any book, and there is a Preface Introduction page, it is simply to notify you of WHAT you will be Learning ABOUT.
If you have NOT, Learned ABOUT the Contents presented, surely you are a long way off From Understanding.

Point being, you appear to be seeking Understanding, to something you have Not learned About.

IOW- I have a Spiritual Contract with God.
You have no clue what that Contract says, is About, or How that Contract was Offered to me, or How I Agreed To that Contract or that Contract is Expressly Between God and myself.

You have no belief and no faith.
You clearly think that is a problem.
You clearly seem to think if someone could give you a convincing understanding, you might be able to THEN, believe and have faith.

Understanding OF Anything, does NOT come Before Learing About Something.

You Have Revealed, you do not believe or have faith.
I would suggest you State "your" DESIRE.
Do you "DESIRE" to have belief?
Do you "DESIRE" to have faith?
( Because poking around trying to find understanding, IS NOT, How Belief or Faith is Obtained.)


"Understanding" ...comes AFTER belief and faith is established...in God..."or on Any ANY Topic"!
(A person does not Understand math, because they hear the word Arithmetic, and learn Numbers.
A person does not Understand Baking, because they hear the words bake and see an oven.
A person neither Understands About God, because they have heard the word God or Jesus Christ).

So what is your "Desire"?
To have belief and faith, that you do not have?
Because that IS possible.
Because there IS a WAY to obtain THAT.
Or...
To have understanding, "without belief or faith"?
Because That is Not possible.

Glory to God,
Taken

 
  • Like
Reactions: Bobby Jo

Bobby Jo

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2019
8,041
3,778
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"A problem"...is ONLY A problem,
OF, an individual, who lacks understanding.

An individual, who HAS the Answer, HAS the understanding OF the Answer...which Means That individual HAS NO problem.

Scripture and History both disagree.

Scripture is often misleading because of a number of factors. So then the reader is misled. And when the reader is a teacher, the class is misled.

Take you for example, -- do you expect a "seven-year-tribulation"; or that Daniel 9 is a prophecy about Jesus; or that the seven mountains are Rome; or that we're not yet in the Tribulation? -- See what I mean? -- In each instance popular perceptions are the opposite of what Scripture actually depicts.

Perhaps if you could explain why the "Leopard" is actually a "Tiger", you could prove me WRONG! :)
Bobby Jo
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,929
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Scripture and History both disagree.

Scripture is often misleading because of a number of factors. So then the reader is misled. And when the reader is a teacher, the class is misled.

Take you for example, -- do you expect a "seven-year-tribulation"; or that Daniel 9 is a prophecy about Jesus; or that the seven mountains are Rome; or that we're not yet in the Tribulation? -- See what I mean? -- In each instance popular perceptions are the opposite of what Scripture actually depicts.

Perhaps if you could explain why the "Leopard" is actually a "Tiger", you could prove me WRONG! :)
Bobby Jo

Why wander off from your point?

Scripture and History both disagree.

Since your comment is a reply I made about Understanding...

Let's See if Scripture and History disagree:

OT History & OT Scripture:
Ex 31
[3] And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship...

NT History & NT Scripture
Matt 16:
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

I PLAINLY see History and Scripture in Agreement.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

JunChosen

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2020
1,836
409
83
Los Angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Taken,

Whatever it is you are trying to convey in Post #49 is not achievable because you are DEAD! Spiritually dead that is.

A dead person, in and of himself has no life within him, and therefore can't do anything let alone have feelings or desires.

To God Be The Glory
 
Last edited:

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,929
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Taken,

Whatever it is you are trying to convey in Post #49 is not achievable because you are DEAD! Spiritually dead that is.

A dead person, in and of himself has no life within him, and therefore can't do anything let alone have feelings or desires.

To God Be The Glory

LOL-
Seems me saying if you have problem, you solve it...was beyond your scope of reasoning...Not my problem.
Also if you do not comprehend Knowledge comes before understanding...ALSO not my problem.

But thanks for sharing ... your wisdom...
It was Funny.

1 Cor 2:
[11] For what man
knoweth the things OF a man, save the spirit OF man which is in him?

What man????....JunChosen!!! LOL
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,929
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Scripture and History both disagree.

Scripture is often misleading because of a number of factors. So then the reader is misled. And when the reader is a teacher, the class is misled.

I don't believe Scripture is misleading.
So, there we disagree.

Take you for example, -- do you expect a "seven-year-tribulation";

I expect there will be Tribulation, that is comparable to the Devastation and death of the Flood.

Matt 24:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

or that Daniel 9 is a prophecy about Jesus; or that the seven mountains are Rome; or that we're not yet in the Tribulation?

I have not spoken about Prophecy in Daniel....and can't answer for others.

-- See what I mean? --

As you said, exampling me...
Nope, don't see what you mean.

In each instance popular perceptions are the opposite of what Scripture actually depicts.

Well? Your opinion and popular perceptions don't affect me.

If you have a need to know about the Aforementioned Timeline of the Tribulation...

I do believe:
The 7 SEALS, 7 TRUMPS, 7 BOWLS
Are an indication the propechy of a great Tribulation mentioned in Matt 24, has Begun and In process...Effecting in measures particular things/ (people, spirits, Earth, plants, Water, insects, animals, insects, structures,)

I also believe A time line mentioned in Rev.

Rev 11
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Rev 11
[3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

* Rev 11:2 Gentile's treading..3.5 yrs
* Rev 11:3 Witnesses Preaching...3.5 yrs

Matt 24:
[29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Rev 12
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and three score days.

Rev 13
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

* Rev 12:6 woman flees...3.5 years
* Rev 13:5 him (a beast) continue..3.5 years

You can do as you will with the figures.


Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,929
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Bobby Jo
Perhaps if you could explain why the "Leopard" is actually a "Tiger", you could prove me WRONG! :)
Bobby Jo

A leopard and tiger are Scripturally the same KIND of animal.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

JunChosen

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2020
1,836
409
83
Los Angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But thanks for sharing ... your wisdom...
It was Funny.

It was funny indeed. I couldn't stop laughing. You're in the wrong profession. You should have been a comedian, or are you one?

1 Cor 2:
[11] For what man

knoweth the things OF a man, save the spirit OF man which is in him?

The verse above must be read all the way through to 1 Co. 2:13-14 to get context. Are you trying to deliberately mislead those who lack in knowledge and understanding of Scripture? (pardon the pun).

To God Be The Glory
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,929
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It was funny indeed. I couldn't stop laughing. You're in the wrong profession. You should have been a comedian, or are you one?

:rolleyes: LOL
Seems the simplest of things escapes you.
No, I am not the comedian...I am the one observing the comedic comments and Laughing!