Addiction

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aspen

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Yeah, deception has the power it has because the deceived love it all the while mouthing the opposite. That's is the nature of denial.
'Men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil' the scripture says.
One can do all the fancy juggling one likes, use all the twisted logic and win every argument to ones own satisfaction but stay in the pit. At the end of the day we live in our own skin but if the transparency of self honesty is undesirable we stay in the dark absolutely.

Addiction is a disease of the brain, which requires a person to develop new neural pathways, in order to recover. It requires building a new way of living. It is not easy, and certainly requires God’s intervention. Loving darkness really has nothing to do with it. Attempting to escape darkness by making bad choices, perhaps.
 
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aspen

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AA didn't do anything for me. Others, yes.

When I stopped drinking, it was with the Schick program, aversion therapy, and it worked great!

Other addictions, the slow and difficult way.

What I've found is that so long as my mind is fixed on Jesus, on my Faithful Creator, I can just wait out the cravings, the distress, knowing that's just what my body is doing, as offensive, but as inconsequential as other body things, like, if you'll pardon the comparison, smelly flatulance.

Much love!

You know, AA did help me get sober in the beginning and I am grateful for it.

In my experience, which was riddled with half measures, AA seemed like an altar call - it was great for
getting me sober, but the sober life it promoted was bleak.

I am introverted....I was never a barfly - I drank alone and to escape. AA is extroverted - it provides people was a sober, barfly lifestyle.

So, I have no complaints
 

shnarkle

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Ok that was awesome. Thank you for posting.

I am new (again) in Recovery - I have 8 1/2 months sober after completing the 3 month program, I finally got into. I understand the realization you had - I have experienced it. I think God let me know that it was time to engage in a recovery program in a serious way. I had to face the facts that AA did not work for me and I decided to get involved in another program that seems to be working - probably because I am working it.

I am still healing from the health consequences of drinking for twenty years. Diabetes, LAD stent, liver involvement and digestion issues. I am happy to be sober and experiencing peace of mind - God is merciful.

Recovery is possible if you surrender and work with God in a program with other people. Creating a network of people who enjoy being sober has been important for me.

Yes, having a support group you trust and can depend upon is critical. I was court mandated into AA repeatedly so that was basically all I was aware of. I didn't have money so I never considered anything else. When I finally got serious about it, it was the only thing I knew I could resort to, and even then it wasn't immediate because I was basically an invalid. I could barely walk.

Then one night a woke up in the dark in a cold sweat and was certain I was going to die. I lay there for a few hours immobilized and immersed in terror. I eventually was able to move, and grabbed a small black and white 12 volt tv I had and began watching the only thing that was on in the middle of the night which was six back to back episodes of Shepherd's Chapel with pastor Arnold Murray. I watched that guy read the bible for six hours every night between midnight and 6 AM for two weeks, and then started going to AA meetings pretty much continuously for the next ten years.

I also began to see that AA had its problems. There were aspects of it that didn't work for me so I began going to Alanon meetings to deal with the alcoholics at AA meetings. I haven't been to an AA meeting in over three years now. It's a program for those who really want it, and I don't really want it enough to go to meetings right now. I was still going to Alanon meetings up until about a year ago, and almost went to one today, but got side tracked. Life happens.

They say something at AA meetings that I firmly believed up until about six years ago which is that you never graduate from AA. The fact is that I graduated from AA. I had moved on to eliminate all my addictions, and nobody in AA was ready to go there. It was impossible for me to share my experience, strength and hope without offending most of the group. They politely informed me that if I wanted to share, I had to confine my sharing to alcohol. They might just as well have handed me my diploma. There was no one else in that room that even wanted my help. They were all perfectly content to remain addicted to their caffeine, nicotine, sugar, fat, etc.

The supreme irony is that as meticulous as I've been in eliminating all addictive substances from my life, I've discovered much more subtle addictive substances. Carrots taste like Kandy Korn, Watermelon gives me a hangover, and I sometimes wake up feeling higher than a kite, and walk around all day practically floating three feet off the ground. Who knew that getting off dope and booze would lead me to become high on life?
 
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aspen

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Yes, having a support group you trust and can depend upon is critical. I was court mandated into AA repeatedly so that was basically all I was aware of. I didn't have money so I never considered anything else. When I finally got serious about it, it was the only thing I knew I could resort to, and even then it wasn't immediate because I was basically an invalid. I could barely walk.

Then one night a woke up in the dark in a cold sweat and was certain I was going to die. I lay there for a few hours immobilized and immersed in terror. I eventually was able to move, and grabbed a small black and white 12 volt tv I had and began watching the only thing that was on in the middle of the night which was six back to back episodes of Shepherd's Chapel with pastor Arnold Murray. I watched that guy read the bible for six hours every night between midnight and 6 AM for two weeks, and then started going to AA meetings pretty much continuously for the next ten years.

I also began to see that AA had its problems. There were aspects of it that didn't work for me so I began going to Alanon meetings to deal with the alcoholics at AA meetings. I haven't been to an AA meeting in over three years now. It's a program for those who really want it, and I don't really want it enough to go to meetings right now. I was still going to Alanon meetings up until about a year ago, and almost went to one today, but got side tracked. Life happens.

They say something at AA meetings that I firmly believed up until about six years ago which is that you never graduate from AA. The fact is that I graduated from AA. I had moved on to eliminate all my addictions, and nobody in AA was ready to go there. It was impossible for me to share my experience, strength and hope without offending most of the group. They politely informed me that if I wanted to share, I had to confine my sharing to alcohol. They might just as well have handed me my diploma. There was no one else in that room that even wanted my help. They were all perfectly content to remain addicted to their caffeine, nicotine, sugar, fat, etc.

The supreme irony is that as meticulous as I've been in eliminating all addictive substances from my life, I've discovered much more subtle addictive substances. Carrots taste like Kandy Korn, Watermelon gives me a hangover, and I sometimes wake up feeling higher than a kite, and walk around all day practically floating three feet off the ground. Who knew that getting off dope and booze would lead me to become high on life?

It’s weird isn’t it? I have not really gotten used to that natural high yet. I just started exercising at a gym and being under a doctors care, I have to start slowly, but it always results in a serious high, no matter how I exercise.

Well, ever since my serious suicide attempt, I have been on borrowed time, so I have a survivors mentality - every day is a gift. So, my gift to myself is to live in a ‘sober moment’ all the time. I hesitate to mention this, because I may be jumped on by people on the board, but have you heard of Refuge Recovery? It has worked for me because as a Christian, it gives me the space to listen to God.
 

shnarkle

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It’s weird isn’t it? I have not really gotten used to that natural high yet. I just started exercising at a gym and being under a doctors care, I have to start slowly, but it always results in a serious high, no matter how I exercise.

Well, ever since my serious suicide attempt, I have been on borrowed time, so I have a survivors mentality - every day is a gift. So, my gift to myself is to live in a ‘sober moment’ all the time. I hesitate to mention this, because I may be jumped on by people on the board, but have you heard of Refuge Recovery? It has worked for me because as a Christian, it gives me the space to listen to God.

I'm glad you mentioned that natural high. I had forgotten "the pink cloud" they talk about in AA. I was on that for the first couple years of my latest bout with sobriety. What I've experienced over the course of the last five or six years is something different. It's more controlled, perhaps more sublime. It's a state of immersion in the world yet complete detachment as well.

A few months ago through a series of seemingly unrelated events I found myself fasting for an extended period of time. I lost 35 lbs. in two weeks. I wasn't trying to lose weight, and really didn't think I would lose that much weight in such a short period of time. I didn't even notice that I had lost weight until I had to look for some pants that wouldn't fall off my hips. I went from a 33 to a 31 waist size.

The point here is that I was completely unaware of any sense of lack or hunger. I was completely detached from any desire to eat anything. I would have continued to fast had it not been for the fact that I could see that the weight was coming off faster, and it wouldn't be too long before there wouldn't be much of anything left.

To a certain extent I can relate to suicide attempts. I never really made any overt attempts to kill myself, but I do remember not being all that interested in living either. Life didn't hold out much promise anymore. I distinctly remember laying on the ground in the fetal position shaking and making a concerted effort to go all day long without a drink saving a shot for sometime in the night to see if I could get some sleep. At some point, I just simply longed for death to come and end it all.

I had a 1.75 liter jug of whiskey in the cupboard that I would rely upon at night before I was hospitalized. A few months later I caught a ride from a guy who needed a drink. I instantly remembered that jug in my cupboard, and suggested that if he gave me a ride to my boat, I would give him the jug. When I pulled it from the cupboard, it was almost gone. Up until that point, I was certain that I had taken no more than a couple of shots before being hospitalized. There wasn't enough to catch a buzz so I apologized and paid him instead.

It was a potent reminder of just how clueless I was to what was going on. Twenty years later, and I'm still seeing how clueless I really am.
 
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Nancy

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Ok that was awesome. Thank you for posting.

I am new (again) in Recovery - I have 8 1/2 months sober after completing the 3 month program, I finally got into. I understand the realization you had - I have experienced it. I think God let me know that it was time to engage in a recovery program in a serious way. I had to face the facts that AA did not work for me and I decided to get involved in another program that seems to be working - probably because I am working it.

I am still healing from the health consequences of drinking for twenty years. Diabetes, LAD stent, liver involvement and digestion issues. I am happy to be sober and experiencing peace of mind - God is merciful.

Recovery is possible if you surrender and work with God in a program with other people. Creating a network of people who enjoy being sober has been important for me.

Congratulations Ron, /
I remember when you had been off here for those 3 months. Praise God, 8 1/2 months, awesome. ♥
 

aspen

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I'm glad you mentioned that natural high. I had forgotten "the pink cloud" they talk about in AA. I was on that for the first couple years of my latest bout with sobriety. What I've experienced over the course of the last five or six years is something different. It's more controlled, perhaps more sublime. It's a state of immersion in the world yet complete detachment as well.

A few months ago through a series of seemingly unrelated events I found myself fasting for an extended period of time. I lost 35 lbs. in two weeks. I wasn't trying to lose weight, and really didn't think I would lose that much weight in such a short period of time. I didn't even notice that I had lost weight until I had to look for some pants that wouldn't fall off my hips. I went from a 33 to a 31 waist size.

The point here is that I was completely unaware of any sense of lack or hunger. I was completely detached from any desire to eat anything. I would have continued to fast had it not been for the fact that I could see that the weight was coming off faster, and it wouldn't be too long before there wouldn't be much of anything left.

To a certain extent I can relate to suicide attempts. I never really made any overt attempts to kill myself, but I do remember not being all that interested in living either. Life didn't hold out much promise anymore. I distinctly remember laying on the ground in the fetal position shaking and making a concerted effort to go all day long without a drink saving a shot for sometime in the night to see if I could get some sleep. At some point, I just simply longed for death to come and end it all.

I had a 1.75 liter jug of whiskey in the cupboard that I would rely upon at night before I was hospitalized. A few months later I caught a ride from a guy who needed a drink. I instantly remembered that jug in my cupboard, and suggested that if he gave me a ride to my boat, I would give him the jug. When I pulled it from the cupboard, it was almost gone. Up until that point, I was certain that I had taken no more than a couple of shots before being hospitalized. There wasn't enough to catch a buzz so I apologized and paid him instead.

It was a potent reminder of just how clueless I was to what was going on. Twenty years later, and I'm still seeing how clueless I really am.

Yeah, I feared not having enough alcohol in the house. I drank wine by the bottle most of the time, but it turned into vodka at the end of my drinking. I ended up attempting suicide, but my blood gelled due to my diabetes so I lived. That was 4 years ago now. Crazy. Bill W. really did know a lot about the ‘jumping off’ point of the disease.

As far as the pink cloud is concerned, I have experienced it, but even when I was feeling it, I knew it was temporary. What I am experiencing now is not temporary. It is peace of mind.
 
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Truman

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I am addicted to alcohol and trying to get into treatment. It costs 50,000 dollars a month in the US. I do not have 50,000 dollars so I have to wait 6 to 8 weeks for a free bed. Some may want to believe I desire a hand out ..fine. I still need treatment. As Christian people, mercy is forefront. Europe refuses to profit from sin tax - they choose not to profit off addiction and it works. I am desperate - any suggestions?
Hi. I got sober back in 94. I went to a 28-day program at a recovery house along with A.A., N.A., and C.R. Celebrate Recovery is on a forum here. "A wise man once said when your road's at an end, you just hang on to hope anyway and that's where a new road begins."
Remember, you didn't get addicted overnight, so easy does it. Take it a day at a time and honestly work your program and be easy on yourself. I've found that one of my biggest challenges is loving myself. Above all, seek God for strength and guidance. Stay away from people, places, and things that may cause you to stumble. I recently had the opportunity to hang out with my 3 best friends from my teen years. I've been ill for years and apart from my kids, I'm alone. But as tempting as it was, they were still into the old life. I stayed home. It's never easy giving up old friends but we're talking about your life here. If you have a physical dependence on alcohol, then you need immediate medical care. Hanging around here will help. Peace.
 
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Truman

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It’s weird isn’t it? I have not really gotten used to that natural high yet. I just started exercising at a gym and being under a doctors care, I have to start slowly, but it always results in a serious high, no matter how I exercise.

Well, ever since my serious suicide attempt, I have been on borrowed time, so I have a survivor's mentality - every day is a gift. So, my gift to myself is to live in a ‘sober moment’ all the time. I hesitate to mention this, because I may be jumped on by people on the board, but have you heard of Refuge Recovery? It has worked for me because as a Christian, it gives me the space to listen to God.
Hi. I suppose it wasn't funny then, but going to Alanon to recover from A.A.? I hope you find this funny now because I find it hilarious. Not that you went through it, but the irony of it. Lol They say it's a life-long program, but that doesn't mean you need to stay forever. It's been 20 years since I went to A.A. and 14 since I went to C.R. Then I learned the way of the cross and Jesus got involved in my life in an expanded way. To anyone who is considering going to C.R., I'd ask you to make sure that your anonymity is respected and that it is not part of a church. If not, your sobriety and even your life may be at risk. If I thought there was any chance that my pastor or anyone would be told what I'd said in confidence, I'd clam up faster than Clammy the clam. If you wonder if what I said has anything to it, check out C.R. regulations at Saddleback church. P.S. 20 years ago I made the most serious attempt to end my life. As a result, I have an acquired brain injury. I wrestled with depression throughout 2018 and by year's end, it stopped. And it hasn't come back. I think this is called, "overcoming." If you're like most Christians, you believe that sanctification is a one-time event that happened when you first believed. That is not so. I looked for 5 1/2 years before I found lasting change. Everything in the Atonement is not automatic. It's the Lord's glory to conceal a matter; it is a king's glory to search it out. Shalom
 
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aspen

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Hi. I suppose it wasn't funny then, but going to Alanon to recover from A.A.? I hope you find this funny now because I find it hilarious. Not that you went through it, but the irony of it. Lol They say it's a life-long program, but that doesn't mean you need to stay forever. It's been 20 years since I went to A.A. and 16 since I went to C.R. Then I learned the way of the cross and Jesus got involved in a larger way. To anyone who is considering going to C.R., I'd ask you to make sure that your anonymity is respected and that it is not part of a church. If not, your sobriety and even your life may be at risk. If I thought there was any chance that my pastor or anyone would be told what I'd said in confidence, I'd clam up faster than Clammy the clam. If you wonder if what I said as anything to it, check out C.R. regulations at Saddleback church. P.S. 20 years ago I made the most serious attempt to end my life. As a result, I have an aquired brain injury. I struggled with depression throughout 2018 and by year's end, it stopped. And it hasn't come back. I think this is called, "overcoming." If you're like most Christians, you believe that sanctification is a one-time event that happened when you first believed. That is not so. I looked for 5 1/2 before I found lasting change. Everything in the Atonement is not automatic. It's the Lord's glory to conceal a matter; it is a king's glory to search it out. Shalom

haha. i did the same thing! I am really enjoying going to Refuge Recovering now. Meditation is the key to my sobriety - I can't believe I will have two years in November. i enjoyed reading your posts
 

farouk

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I like to approach the topic of sobriety from the deeper perspective of it being inner and spiritual, begging the need for refreshing Bible study and prayer.
 
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Nancy

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haha. i did the same thing! I am really enjoying going to Refuge Recovering now. Meditation is the key to my sobriety - I can't believe I will have two years in November. i enjoyed reading your posts

Almost 2 years!!! Good for you Ron...one. day. at. a. time. Sure you've heard that before :)
 

Truman

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I know that it is best for any recovery group to remain separate from the church. After all, if the church had been able to help us, we wouldn't need to go to meetings.
Addiction is a disease of the soul. It goes all the way back to the Garden. At the center of the soul is the heart. Though some choose to pretend that it's not wicked, but only wild. This is heresy. "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" Jeremiah 17:9 NIV Shalom.
 

Nancy

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I know that it is best for any recovery group to remain separate from the church. After all, if the church had been able to help us, we wouldn't need to go to meetings.
Addiction is a disease of the soul. It goes all the way back to the Garden. At the center of the soul is the heart. Though some choose to pretend that it's not wicked, but only wild. This is heresy. "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" Jeremiah 17:9 NIV Shalom.

I must say that I do somewhat agree here. But, it is only based on a few visits to CR meetings. It seems the same folks are going over and over again, year in and year out...same people, still stuck...do they not graduate at some point? I know they get the chips yet, it seems they are still where they were years ago...and these meetings are supposed to be Christ centered so why are they not moving forward? Addiction is a horrible thing...many on my mothers side were alcoholics as well as one of my brothers (he hasn't had a drink in over 20 years) my mother, and several Aunt's and Uncles. It ruins relationships...especially the one we have with Christ.
I can understand going to these meetings (like AA) when needing help, encouragement and such but, to keep going while getting nowhere? I don't understand that.
 

farouk

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I must say that I do somewhat agree here. But, it is only based on a few visits to CR meetings. It seems the same folks are going over and over again, year in and year out...same people, still stuck...do they not graduate at some point? I know they get the chips yet, it seems they are still where they were years ago...and these meetings are supposed to be Christ centered so why are they not moving forward? Addiction is a horrible thing...many on my mothers side were alcoholics as well as one of my brothers (he hasn't had a drink in over 20 years) my mother, and several Aunt's and Uncles. It ruins relationships...especially the one we have with Christ.
I can understand going to these meetings (like AA) when needing help, encouragement and such but, to keep going while getting nowhere? I don't understand that.
@Nancy I think some ppl regard such meetings as an ongoing process rather than a destination, so to speak.
 
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Truman

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I must say that I do somewhat agree here. But, it is only based on a few visits to CR meetings. It seems the same folks are going over and over again, year in and year out...same people, still stuck...do they not graduate at some point? I know they get the chips yet, it seems they are still where they were years ago...and these meetings are supposed to be Christ-centered so why are they not moving forward? Addiction is a horrible thing...many on my mother's side were alcoholics as well as one of my brothers (he hasn't had a drink in over 20 years) my mother, and several Aunt's and Uncles. It ruins relationships...especially the one we have with Christ.
I can understand going to these meetings (like AA) when needing help, encouragement, and such but, to keep going while getting nowhere? I don't understand that.
This is why I hate man-made religion. It blinds people by deceiving them into believing that they know the truth, though they don't. There are mind-blinding religious spirits that do this and the Holy Spirit is mimicked by spirits such as jezebel. I think that most Christians believe in instant sanctification and to say otherwise is seen as attempting to add to the atonement. This is a misunderstanding of scripture.
- I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Revelation 7:14 NIV Jesus didn't wash their robes, they washed their robes themselves.
I don't believe that this is adding to the Atonement. Rather it was the Atonement that bought us the right to be able to wash our robes in the blood of the Lamb (which is a metaphor). Misunderstanding this small metaphor is responsible for the carnality in the church and the daily cross (robe-washing) and the scripture that goes with it is the only answer to removing it.
12-step groups can put addictive behavior into remission and was an important part of my recovery. A stepping stone and if I ever think I need to go back, I will. My involvement in recovery groups gave me a place where I wasn't given pat answers or rejected and learned the basics of recovery. Otherwise, I would have faced recovery alone.
The church says that if you repent, pray, and read your bible that you'll do fine. Not so. God has a way to transform the inner man though we need "eyes" to see it. And it's all in the bible.
All 12-step groups owe their existence to Alcoholics Anonymous, who put together the program with a lot of help from Sam Shoemaker. Sam, an Episcopalian priest, started the program and based it on scriptural principles. These are the foundation of A.A. Sam also wrote a favorite poem of mine called, "I Stand At The Door." A must-read for Christians. Shalom
 
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Nancy

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This is why I hate man-made religion. It blinds people by deceiving them into believing that they know the truth, though they don't. There are mind-blinding religious spirits that do this and the Holy Spirit is mimicked by spirits such as jezebel. I think that most Christians believe in instant sanctification and to say otherwise is seen as attempting to add to the atonement. This is a misunderstanding of scripture.
- I answered, "Sir, you know." And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Revelation 7:14 NIV Jesus didn't wash their robes, they washed their robes themselves.
I don't believe that this is adding to the Atonement. Rather it was the Atonement that bought us the right to be able to wash our robes in the blood of the Lamb (which is a metaphor). Misunderstanding this small metaphor is responsible for the carnality in the church and the daily cross (robe-washing) and the scripture that goes with it is the only answer to removing it.
12-step groups can put addictive behavior into remission and was an important part of my recovery. A stepping stone and if I ever think I need to go back, I will. My involvement in recovery groups gave me a place where I wasn't given pat answers or rejected and learned the basics of recovery. Otherwise, I would have faced recovery alone.
The church says that if you repent, pray, and read your bible that you'll do fine. Not so. God has a way to transform the inner man though we need "eyes" to see it. And it's all in the bible.
All 12-step groups owe their existence to Alcoholics Anonymous, who put together the program with a lot of help from Sam Shoemaker. Sam, an Episcopalian priest, started the program and based it on scriptural principles. These are the foundation of A.A. Sam also wrote a favorite poem of mine called, "I Stand At The Door." A must-read for Christians. Shalom
"There are mind-blinding religious spirits that do this and the Holy Spirit is mimicked by spirits such as jezebel. <---Yes, I would say the Holy Spirit is mimicked by myriad spirits. So, discernment is on my plate all the time.

"I think that most Christians believe in instant sanctification and to say otherwise is seen as attempting to add to the atonement." <---I can see both instant AND ongoing sanctification, we are "sealed" by the Holy Spirit, or "set aside"...yet we grow in His likeness over time and, the time it takes will be equal to the time we put into seeking Him. JMO!

"Jesus didn't wash their robes, they washed their robes themselves.
I don't believe that this is adding to the Atonement. Rather it was the Atonement that bought us the right to be able to wash our robes in the blood of the Lamb" <--- Amen, the Atonement bought us the right to do wonderful things, like approach the Throne of God Almighty with boldness! Amen.

"12-step groups can put addictive behavior into remission and was an important part of my recovery." <---People, Christian or not still need each other in these situations as...they can certainly relate to their specific addictions.

"A stepping stone and if I ever think I need to go back, I will. My involvement in recovery groups gave me a place where I wasn't given pat answers or rejected and learned the basics of recovery. Otherwise, I would have faced recovery alone." <--- God told you where to go, and you listened. It was the right place, at the right time with the right message.
I too hate "pat" answers. So void of any true value. He never ever leaves us alone. :)

"I Stand At The Door." <---- I'm not much of a poem kind of person but, I will look it up and read it :)
 
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Truman

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A few nights ago I had a dream.
It looked like I was in an empty cafeteria.
A young man walked up to me and, hesitating, mumbled something and started to go through his pockets, but then stopped.
I said, "you wanted to give me something?"
He said, "yeah," reached into his pocket, pulled out a small package, and handed it to me.
He said, "It's crystal meth."
I took it from him and went and dumped it down the drain.
Some of it stuck to the sides of the sink. I tried brushing it off but didn't want to touch it. The dream ended.
I realized that the problem here was disposing of it and concluded that taking it from him was a mistake.
He has to do that for himself.
Having that drug in my hands after so long is something I need to avoid. I did have an amphetamine problem long ago.
God is calling me into service as He recently told me that He was, "moving me on in the Lord."
After not going to N.A. for 27 years, I just arranged to go to a meeting with a guy. :)