Saved, which means what?

Marymog · Aug 22, 2020

Ezra said:
your so faR OUT IN LEFT FIELD there is no such thing as forced repentce

Hi Ezra,

EDIT: Tongs statement said “God will definitely bring him to repentance“. I believe that that statement is faR OUT IN LEFT FIELD and implies that God forces man into repentance.

Mary

Marymog · Aug 22, 2020

Ezra said:
YES the key is repentance 1 Corinthians 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

you are making statements that are not Bible

Thank you Ezra.

EDIT: Yes(?) we are saved by grace but we still have to repent to be saved. Is that what you are saying?

Curious Mary

Marymog · Aug 22, 2020

Christophany said:
Since King David committed the acts of murder and adultery and He was saved then the answer is YES.

Fascinating theory.

Did you know that King David repented for his sins?

Curious Mary

Marymog · Aug 22, 2020

Tong2020 said:
No, not forced. He is brought to repentance by the working of God in his heart, either through his chastisement by God and/or by the conviction by the Holy Spirit.

Genuine repentance is not a forced thing.

Tong
R1076

Hi Tong,

Soooooo when you said “God will definitely bring him to repentance” you meant that the person will come to repentance by their own free will?

Mary

PS...what is R1076?

Tong2020 · Aug 22, 2020

Marymog said:
Hi Tong,

Soooooo when you said “God will definitely bring him to repentance” you meant that the person will come to repentance by their own free will?

Mary

PS...what is R1076?

His coming to repentance is by his own will. And why he willed to repent, is due to the working of God in his heart, either through his chastisement by God and/or by the conviction by the Holy Spirit.

*R1076 is just a ref. no. for my posts

Tong
R1077

Ezra · Aug 22, 2020

Marymog said:
Thank you Ezra.

EDIT: Yes(?) we are saved by grace but we still have to repent to be saved. Is that what you are saying?

Curious Mary

actually a sinner just needs to be saved by grace. a christian is to repent even though we are saved as it was said early on TURN FROM. btw my reply is not hard to understand

Marymog said:
Fascinating theory.

Did you know that King David repented for his sins?

Curious Mary

the Bible records it .......
2 Corinthians 7:9-11
King James Version

9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Stumpmaster · Aug 22, 2020

Tong2020 said:
Genuine repentance is not a forced thing.

True, as the adage goes, "a person persuaded against their will is off the same persuasion still".

Godly sorrow works repentance to salvation not to be repented of. If we genuinely repent we don't repent of repenting...brilliant!
2Co 7:9-11 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that you sorrowed to repentance: for you were made sorry after a godly manner, that you might receive damage by us in nothing. (10) For godly sorrow works repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world works death. (11) For behold this selfsame thing, that you sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yes, what indignation, yes, what fear, yes, what vehement desire, yes, what zeal, yes, what revenge! In all things you have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Stumpmaster · Aug 22, 2020

Marymog said:
I agree, we need to repent. Sooooo it is not grace that saved us. It is the action of a work, the ACT of repentance, that saves us.

No, once again, Marymog, we are saved by grace through faith. As you know, faith without works is dead, but works without faith also leads to death. Without faith it is impossible to please God so a person can repent all they like but unless they have faith toward God their repentance is just worldly sorrow.

Repentance from dead works and faith toward God are two essential sides of the six sides that make up the foundation block of the doctrine of Christ. Once you have the foundation layed you don't need to lay it again, just build on it.

Heb 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, (2) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (3) And this will we do, if God permit.

Without faith as a conduit for God's grace there is no salvation, no mercy, no free gift, no access to Christ's blood.

Marymog · Aug 23, 2020

Tong2020 said:
His coming to repentance is by his own will. And why he willed to repent, is due to the working of God in his heart, either through his chastisement by God and/or by the conviction by the Holy Spirit.

*R1076 is just a ref. no. for my posts

Tong
R1077

Thank you. That makes sense. I misunderstood what you were saying.

AND thank you for the info on the ref #

Marymog · Aug 23, 2020

Ezra said:
actually a sinner just needs to be saved by grace. a christian is to repent even though we are saved as it was said early on TURN FROM. btw my reply is not hard to understand

HI Ezra,

Are you making a distinction between a sinner and a Christian? The reason I ask is that you said “a sinner just needs to be saved by grace”. A Christian is to repent even though we ARE saved”.

Sinner= saved by grace, doesn’t need to repent

Christian= already saved, needs to repent

That makes no sense to me.....

Saved is past tense. It’s already done and happened. It can’t be changed! EX: I saved you from falling off a building! Soooooo why repent if we are saved?

I know you don’t think your reply was hard to understand but I thought it was. When one writes an answer to another person it is the recipient of the message that needs to understand the message; not the sender of the message! I didn’t understand the message therefor it WAS hard to understand.

Mary

CadyandZoe · Aug 23, 2020

I created a video to answer this question. What is salvation?
Christian Salvation

Marymog · Aug 23, 2020

Stumpmaster said:
No, once again, Marymog, we are saved by grace through faith. As you know, faith without works is dead, but works without faith also leads to death. Without faith it is impossible to please God so a person can repent all they like but unless they have faith toward God their repentance is just worldly sorrow.

Repentance from dead works and faith toward God are two essential sides of the six sides that make up the foundation block of the doctrine of Christ. Once you have the foundation layed you don't need to lay it again, just build on it.

Heb 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, (2) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. (3) And this will we do, if God permit.

Without faith as a conduit for God's grace there is no salvation, no mercy, no free gift, no access to Christ's blood.

I kind of feel like we are agreeing but using different words.

I agree we are saved by grace thru faith.

I agree we must then have works AFTER that otherwise it will lead us to death.

Mary

Ezra · Aug 23, 2020

Marymog said:
Are you making a distinction between a sinner and a Christian?

break this down a Christian can and will sin we need repentance. we dont want to stay in the sin. repent means turn from change our mind. we as christians have a advocate 1 John 2:1-3
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.. we also have 1 john 1:9 which can be applied both parties

a lost person is saved BY grace through faith read ephesians 2 technically speaking even when we get saved by Grace its a type repentance

2 Corinthians 7:9-11
re•pent•ance rĭ-pĕn′təns
►

n.
The act or process of repenting.

n.
Remorse or contrition for past conduct or sin. synonym: penitence.

n.
The act of repenting; the state of being penitent; sorrow or contrition for what one has done or left undone.

King James Version

9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

there is a difference between being sorry and sorrowful

CadyandZoe · Aug 23, 2020

Marymog said:
Fascinating theory.

Did you know that King David repented for his sins?

Curious Mary

Mary, I wonder if there might be a difference between confession and repentance?

Stumpmaster · Aug 23, 2020

Marymog said:
I kind of feel like we are agreeing but using different words.
I agree we are saved by grace thru faith.
I agree we must then have works AFTER that otherwise it will lead us to death.
Mary

Yes, the Book of Hebrews is exceptionally clear in Chapter 6 about going on to perfection once there is a solid foundation to build on. The Judaisers wanted to retain a dependence on observing the law with all its works and self-effort, but these dead works had no place under the New Covenant, which was strong meat to them and they struggled to digest it.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Those who do genuinely receive salvation by grace through faith inevitably go on to produce the fruit of their salvation as evidence of it. Spurious converts fail in this regard so it becomes a question of whether they are really saved.
Heb 6:9-12 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. (10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which you have showed toward his name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. (11) And we desire that every one of you do show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: (12) That you be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

farouk · Aug 24, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
Thank God for every mountain, every valley, and every storm.

@VictoryinJesus Isaiah 48.10: "I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction." It's searching to know that if God is in it, then it may be a blessing heavily disguised.

Marymog · Aug 25, 2020

CadyandZoe said:
Mary, I wonder if there might be a difference between confession and repentance?

Hi CadyandZoe,

There is a difference. One can confess a sin to God, another person or write it in their diary but yet not be repentant for that sin.

Are you suggesting that King David was not repentant?

Bible Study Mary

CadyandZoe · Aug 25, 2020

Marymog said:
Hi CadyandZoe,

There is a difference. One can confess a sin to God, another person or write it in their diary but yet not be repentant for that sin.

Are you suggesting that King David was not repentant?

Bible Study Mary

I wasn't suggesting anything; I was simply curious what you thought. That's all. Thanks for your answer. I appreciate it. Maranatha.

farouk · Aug 26, 2020

Waiting on him said:
@farouk posts many threads on the forum where in my opinion he try’s to imply the liberty that we have in Christ...

@Waiting on him Useful summary; thank-you...Romans 14 indeed has principles which are not sufficiently understood.

Jay Ross · Aug 26, 2020

Perhaps this may be helpful: -

Romans 14: - The Law of Liberty

14:1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

"As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God."

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way.

The Law of Love

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.

19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

NKJV

I wonder how we will all be judged with respect to this chapter that has been cited by @farouk as justification for his posting strategy on this forum.

I would be of the opinion that as a disciple of Christ's that we do nothing that would put a stumbling block in front of another person such that they become lost. Perhaps we should all look at the implication of this chapter and only judge ourselves and how we should interact with one who does put a stumbling block before others.

Shalom

Saved, which means what?

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