Please Read This

rdventen · Feb 23, 2010

[sup]What do you think?
[sup][/sup]
14[/sup]Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— [sup]15[/sup]and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. [sup]16[/sup]For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. [sup]17[/sup]For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for[sup][f][/sup]the sins of the people. [sup]18[/sup]Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Irish · Feb 23, 2010

rdventen said:
[sup]What do you think?
[sup] [/sup]
14[/sup]Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— [sup]15[/sup]and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. [sup]16[/sup]For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. [sup]17[/sup]For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for[sup][f][/sup]the sins of the people. [sup]18[/sup]Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Nope, he is teaching us.

Irish

rdventen · Feb 24, 2010

Irish said:
Nope, he is teaching us.

Irish

True He is teaching us, but before that He was 100% Spirit, but after He took on human flash I believe that God did learn something.

write2witness · Feb 24, 2010

rdventen said:
True He is teaching us, but before that He was 100% Spirit, but after He took on human flash I believe that God did learn something.

God doesn't have to learn anything. He's God. He already knows everything.

rdventen · Feb 24, 2010

[sup]8[/sup]Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

I believe that just as we need food and water, He also had to have it because He also got hungry and needed water, and rest and sleep. These are only some of the things He felt as a man, things that a spirit can't.

wayofthespirit · Feb 25, 2010

rdventen said:
[sup]8[/sup]Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

I believe that just as we need food and water, He also had to have it because He also got hungry and needed water, and rest and sleep. These are only some of the things He felt as a man, things that a spirit can't.

There is danger, in the way this is being presented, of pulling God down to man's limitations.

In terms of true meaning, try substituing 'experienced' as the true meaning of God 'learning' something in the context of Christ's incarnation.
After all is said and done we are generally reading things (firstly) translated some 400 odd years ago,and in the case of the KJV at a Kings command in order to reflect, in the English of the day, the views of a Church that was established in order to regularise Henry VIII's misdemeanors, (secondly) from copies of original writings that had been long lost, (thirdly) originally written in a language with which few of us have familiarity let alone expertise, and (forthly) written in hyroglyphics from right to left, without spaces to differentiate between words, without punctuation to identify sentances, etc., etc.

Thus saith the Word of God??

When God through his Holy Spirit 'speaks' into the "fleshy tables of your heart" then that, by grammatical definition, is "The Word of God".
And God's Holy spirit IMHO, and in my experience, occupies himself in telling you such as you NEED to know, but no more, in order for you to walk daily, hand in hand with God, worshipping, testifying, and comforting and helping one another.
(this 'learning' thing, like so much of what we struggle with, does little in that context)

Dont pre-occupy yourself in trying to teach God what it is that he does or doesn't already know.

At the end of the day, as we are won't to say, He is GOD.

Mike.

rdventen · Feb 25, 2010

wayofthespirit said:
There is danger, in the way this is being presented, of pulling God down to man's limitations.

In terms of true meaning, try substituing 'experienced' as the true meaning of God 'learning' something in the context of Christ's incarnation.
After all is said and done we are generally reading things (firstly) translated some 400 odd years ago,and in the case of the KJV at a Kings command in order to reflect, in the English of the day, the views of a Church that was established in order to regularise Henry VIII's misdemeanors, (secondly) from copies of original writings that had been long lost, (thirdly) originally written in a language with which few of us have familiarity let alone expertise, and (forthly) written in hyroglyphics from right to left, without spaces to differentiate between words, without punctuation to identify sentances, etc., etc.

Thus saith the Word of God??

When God through his Holy Spirit 'speaks' into the "fleshy tables of your heart" then that, by grammatical definition, is "The Word of God".
And God's Holy spirit IMHO, and in my experience, occupies himself in telling you such as you NEED to know, but no more, in order for you to walk daily, hand in hand with God, worshipping, testifying, and comforting and helping one another.
(this 'learning' thing, like so much of what we struggle with, does little in that context)

Dont pre-occupy yourself in trying to teach God what it is that he does or doesn't already know.

At the end of the day, as we are won't to say, He is GOD.

Mike.

You're right about the fact that a better word would have been experience, but you are wrong in saying that I'm trying to bring God down to mans limitations. The Bible itself brings up the thought of God learning something after He took on human flash, I just brought it up as a question and thought as to what it could be, and thats all.

wayofthespirit · Feb 25, 2010

rdventen said:
You're right about the fact that a better word would have been experience, but you are wrong in saying that I'm trying to bring God down to mans limitations. The Bible itself brings up the thought of God learning something after He took on human flash, I just brought it up as a question and thought as to what it could be, and thats all.

No harm done then, I trust.

My fault for anticipating that it was going to be forerunner to some denominational speciality.

Mike.

rdventen · Feb 26, 2010

wayofthespirit said:
No harm done then, I trust.

My fault for anticipating that it was going to be forerunner to some denominational speciality.

Mike.

Question? Then what do we need the Bible for, if we can't believe or trust what it says. I do agree with you that God speaks to us through our hearts as believers, but to say that the Bible can't be trusted or taken at it's word as indeed it is the word of God written by Holy men of God lead by the Holy Spirit of God. The errors found in the printing are Minor, but the Bible as a whole can be trusted.

wayofthespirit · Feb 26, 2010

rdventen said:
Question? Then what do we need the Bible for, if we can't believe or trust what it says. I do agree with you that God speaks to us through our hearts as believers, but to say that the Bible can't be trusted or taken at it's word as indeed it is the word of God written by Holy men of God lead by the Holy Spirit of God. The errors found in the printing are Minor, but the Bible as a whole can be trusted.

Not for me to be assertive about the 'Bible'.
What I am assertive about is that whatever may be the case with the Bible, it is not a part of the Godhead, whereas the Holy Spirit is......and that the appointed task of the Holy Spirit is to convey the Living 'Word of God' into the fleshy tables of the heart.
Therefore the written word is subordinate to the third person of the Godhead and not vice versa and that takes away the need for us to concern ourselves about the precise inerrancy of whatever we read or hear.

Mike.

WhiteKnuckle · Feb 27, 2010

rdventen said:
[sup]What do you think?
[sup][/sup]
14[/sup]Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— [sup]15[/sup]and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. [sup]16[/sup]For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. [sup]17[/sup]For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for[sup][f][/sup]the sins of the people. [sup]18[/sup]Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

God knows everything, before hand. I don't know if God learns things or always knows them.

The way I view this is another way for man to be without excuse, away for man to relate to God and know that God can relate to us. The Lord is infinate in His wisdom and knows that you can't have a relationship if you think the other has never felt or experienced first hand something that you have.

I don't feel comforted at the death of a loved one by the words of a person who's never lost anyone. They don't know how I feel and I can't trust that they do. But, if someone has gone through a simalar situation, I feel I can relate and can be comforted by those who speak from experience rather than implied empathy.

Try walking up to a person who just got paralyzed and tell them how everythings going to be okay, and that they need to move on and accept their situation. See how that goes over with them.

rdventen · Feb 28, 2010

wayofthespirit said:
Not for me to be assertive about the 'Bible'.
What I am assertive about is that whatever may be the case with the Bible, it is not a part of the Godhead, whereas the Holy Spirit is......and that the appointed task of the Holy Spirit is to convey the Living 'Word of God' into the fleshy tables of the heart.
Therefore the written word is subordinate to the third person of the Godhead and not vice versa and that takes away the need for us to concern ourselves about the precise inerrancy of whatever we read or hear.

Mike.

Sorry that does not answer my question, should we just forget about the Bible?

Christina · Feb 28, 2010

rdventen said:
Sorry that does not answer my question, should we just forget about the Bible?

Heaven forbid read his words

Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

every word is breathed by the spirit of God because one doesnt fully understand or misintepts a thing is the fault of man not God there are no contrdictions in God word only men who fail to understand whats being said

wayofthespirit · Mar 1, 2010

Bearing in mind that there was no ‘Bible’, as we have come to know it, until Constantine and his State adopted Church (later to become the Roman Catholic Church) decreed that a selection of the Apostolic writings should (hundreds of years after Christ’s launch of his church) be added to what we now call the ‘Old Testament’, and the composite regarded as a new extension of what, prior to Pentecost, had been God’s written means of communicating with the old ‘Israel’ in order to “lead them, as a schoolmaster, to Christ”

We should never forget that Catholicism set up what it called its ‘Sacred Magesterium’ who later claimed that not only had they produced the Bible, but that they, and they alone, were authorised to read it and to interpret it for the purpose of issuing periodic edicts controlling the beliefs and practices of their adherents.

Anyone else attempting to own or read a ‘Bible for themselves did so under penalty of death and that pertained for many hundreds of years.

There is IMHO little difference between Bullingerism’s limiting the application of certain scriptures to those to whom they were specifically addressed, and recognising that references to ‘scripture’ by Christ and the Apostles could only relate to scripture which at that time existed and was recognised as such i.e. what we now call the Old Testament.

That IMO would be an irrefutable extension of hyperdispensationalism and even on its own is an absolute fact.

If I get round to posting ‘The Way of the Spirit’ (part 2) I will include references to what it is that scripture appears to me to have to say about itself in the context of its dispensational relevance.

Peace to all…..Mike.

rdventen · Mar 1, 2010

Hebrews 4:12
For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

rdventen · Mar 1, 2010

wayofthespirit said:
Bearing in mind that there was no ‘Bible’, as we have come to know it, until Constantine and his State adopted Church (later to become the Roman Catholic Church) decreed that a selection of the Apostolic writings should (hundreds of years after Christ’s launch of his church) be added to what we now call the ‘Old Testament’, and the composite regarded as a new extension of what, prior to Pentecost, had been God’s written means of communicating with the old ‘Israel’ in order to “lead them, as a schoolmaster, to Christ”

We should never forget that Catholicism set up what it called its ‘Sacred Magesterium’ who later claimed that not only had they produced the Bible, but that they, and they alone, were authorised to read it and to interpret it for the purpose of issuing periodic edicts controlling the beliefs and practices of their adherents.

Anyone else attempting to own or read a ‘Bible for themselves did so under penalty of death and that pertained for many hundreds of years.

There is IMHO little difference between Bullingerism’s limiting the application of certain scriptures to those to whom they were specifically addressed, and recognising that references to ‘scripture’ by Christ and the Apostles could only relate to scripture which at that time existed and was recognised as such i.e. what we now call the Old Testament.

That IMO would be an irrefutable extension of hyperdispensationalism and even on its own is an absolute fact.

If I get round to posting ‘The Way of the Spirit’ (part 2) I will include references to what it is that scripture appears to me to have to say about itself in the context of its dispensational relevance.

Peace to all…..Mike.

2 Timothy 3:16 (21st Century King James Version)

[sup]16[/sup]All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
[sup]17[/sup]that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly equipped for all good works.

The Bible is the Scriptures in book form, but are still the living words of God good for any age or dispensation. But you have the right to believe what you will about the Bible, because no matter what you or me think about the Bible dose not prove one way or the other if one is a Christian or not, but only in what one believes of the Lord Jesus, then you are ether lost or saved and a Christian.
[sup]
[/sup]

jiggyfly · Mar 1, 2010

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2 Timothy 3:16 (21st Century King James Version)

[sup]16[/sup]All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
[sup]17[/sup]that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly equipped for all good works.

The Bible is the Scriptures in book form, but are still the living words of God good for any age or dispensation. But you have the right to believe what you will about the Bible, because no matter what you or me think about the Bible dose not prove one way or the other if one is a Christian or not, but only in what one believes of the Lord Jesus, then you are ether lost or saved and a Christian.

[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]But we must be careful not to confuse the scriptures with the Word of God (Jesus) as so many do, I am glad that we have the scriptures but so did Israel before Christ came. Now we have HolySpirit. Just look at the progression here.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma] [/font][/color]
[color="#5D5D5D"][font="tahoma][size="2"]Hebrews 1:1&2 [/size][/font]Long ago God spoke many times and in many ways to our ancestors through the prophets. But now in these final days, he has spoken to us through his Son. God promised everything to the Son as an inheritance, and through the Son he made the universe and everything in it.
[font="tahoma][size="2"] [/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"]and then look at Jesus' statement here.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"] [/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"]John 16:12-14 "Oh, there is so much more I want to tell you, but you can't bear it now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not be presenting his own ideas; he will be telling you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future. He will bring me glory by revealing to you whatever he receives from me.[/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"] [/size][/font]
[font="tahoma][size="2"] [/size][/font]

jiggyfly · Mar 1, 2010

rdventen said:
Hebrews 4:12
For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

We must be careful not to take things out of context and ignore other scriptures concerning the same topic.

Hebrews 4:11-13 May we be diligent, then, to enter into that rest, that no one in the same example of the unbelief may fall, for the reckoning of God is living, and working, and sharp above every two-edged sword, and piercing unto the dividing asunder both of soul and spirit, of joints also and marrow, and a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart; and there is not a created thing not manifest before Him, but all things [are] naked and open to His eyes -- with whom is our reckoning.
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John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

John 5:39&40 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

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wayofthespirit · Mar 1, 2010

rdventen said:
2 Timothy 3:16 (21st Century King James Version)

[sup]16[/sup]All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
[sup]17[/sup]that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly equipped for all good works.

wayofthespirit said:
There is IMHO little difference between Bullingerism’s limiting the application of certain scriptures to those to whom they were specifically addressed, and recognising that references to ‘scripture’ by Christ and the Apostles could only relate to scripture which at that time existed and was recognised as such i.e. what we now call the Old Testament.

Mike.

rdventen · Mar 1, 2010

I see that this is not getting us any where, so lets just agree to just disagree on the Impotence of the Bible in todays world. Pace in Jesus name.

PS. Thank you all for your responses.

Please Read This

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