Edward Fudge: Hero Or Heretic?

Giuliano · Aug 24, 2020

Earburner said:
If at anytime, your son was slowly beaten to death, in your presence, while being held back, that wouldn't be an abomination (disgusting thing) to you?

All those scriptures you posted, are in reference to the prophecy of the 70 weeks, specifically KJV- Daniel 9:26
"...and the people of the prince [Titus] that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
That is not the abomination of desolation that Jesus was pointing to.
When Jesus appeared to us in the flesh, He was THE TRUE temple of God.
John 2[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple [His body], and in three days I will raise it up.
> It is apparent that Jesus cared nothing for the temple building of the Jews.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his body.
[22] When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture [OT], and the word which Jesus had said.

Now, in relation to His body, Jesus said this: Mark 13[14] But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
Mat. 24[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
> Important: Jesus was judged by the Sanhedrin, in the holy place of the temple, not in the most holy of holies.

Q. What and where is "the holy place" of God?
A. Psalm 24[3] Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? *or who shall stand in his holy place?
[4] He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully. [Jesus]
[5] He [Jesus] shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
Read all of Hebrews 9, specifically verses 23-24, and you will understand that the true "temple" of God/Jesus, had appeared, and now had eclipsed the Temple building, making it altogether useless and desolate of God, hence: "Your house is left unto you desolate" .
[23] It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
[24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; *but into [the holy place of God] heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

First of all, Jesus' body was not left desolate. It was resurrected in glory. Secondly, he was crucified outside the city of Jerusalem, not in the Temple. Thirdly, the Sanhedrin did not meet in the "holy place of the temple." They had a separate building called the Hall of Hewn Stones.

Waiting on him · Aug 24, 2020

Giuliano said:
Is verse 23 translated right in the KJV? If it's right (in the latter time of their kingdom) , I'd believe it's Antiochus. If it should read "at the end of their kingdom," then I'd say I agree with you and the Jewish opinion that the latter part of the prophecy refers to Titus.

Notice that while the man in verse 24 is described as strong, it's not a military type of strength. "And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power. . . . " The Jews say that means his strength derived more from smooth talk than real strength.

I also wish I knew the historical facts better. The prophecy itself is rather vague -- and said to be sealed until the end -- I'm not sure it was meant to be that clear.

Well, whom did Jesus refer to as the one who did the works, and also he’s broken without hand.... no man taketh my life? This is my body broken for you. I believe in this chapter in Daniel the stone cut out of the mountain is also the one rejected.

Giuliano · Aug 24, 2020

marks said:
Eternal life is relationship with God, eternal death is separation from God, just as physical life is when you are in your body, and physical death is when you've been separated from it.

Much love!

To me, physical death means the physical body stops being alive. It ends. It's not dying eternally or something like that. It's the opposite of eternal. No?

Giuliano · Aug 24, 2020

Waiting on him said:
Well, whom did Jesus refer to as the one who did the works, and also he’s broken without hand.... no man taketh my life? This is my body broken for you. I believe in this chapter in Daniel the stone cut out of the mountain is also the one rejected.

Sorry, I don't follow. . . .

Waiting on him · Aug 24, 2020

Giuliano said:
First of all, Jesus' body was not left desolate. It was resurrected in glory.

it’s always been interesting to me that no one recognizes Him upon His resurrection.
How do we know His physical body was ascended?

Waiting on him · Aug 24, 2020

Giuliano said:
And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power. . . .

Jesus cast out by the power of God, He always accredited the power to God. Not of Himself.

Waiting on him · Aug 24, 2020

Giuliano said:
Sorry, I don't follow. . . .

The man referenced also is broken without hand, He said this is my body broken for you yet no man took His life?

Waiting on him · Aug 24, 2020

He causes craft to prosper in his hand?

anything a righteous man puts his hand too shall prosper.

Earburner · Aug 24, 2020

Giuliano said:
Is verse 23 translated right in the KJV? If it's right (in the latter time of their kingdom) , I'd believe it's Antiochus. If it should read "at the end of their kingdom," then I'd say I agree with you and the Jewish opinion that the latter part of the prophecy refers to Titus.

It is evident that the LH was that Greek, Antiochus Epiphanes, and not that Roman, Titus.

Waiting on him · Aug 24, 2020

What about Christendom, do we not have a governor?

Waiting on him · Aug 24, 2020

Isaiah 9:7 KJV
[7] Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

the throne of David is the the heart of the born again

Earburner · Aug 24, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
No one has ever gone up to heaven,
but i wish you the best of luck in your quest, pseudo-Enoch
your bargain with the grave will be annulled, and when the overwhelming scourge passes through, you will be trampled

The Eternal Holy Spirit of God, who dwells within every born again Christian will not, does not and cannot sleep in the grave (hell). Nor does He ever leave us or forsake us!!
So then, your answer is the same, or will you change it?

bbyrd009 · Aug 24, 2020

Earburner said:
The Eternal Holy Spirit of God, who dwells within every born again Christian will not, does not and cannot sleep in the grave (hell). Nor does He ever leave us or forsake us!!
So then, your answer is the same, or will you change it?

you want me to change the Scriptures i Quoted?

and no offense but i wouldnt take too seriously any self-testifying by...well, anyone i guess, me included. Never heard the grave referred to as hell before, but Samuel did say who is it that disturbs my rest right

i agree the spirit goes back to Yah, Who gave it, but you seek to save your soul, dont you? Your invoking of Spirit is a clever twist, but you can only kid yourself in the end, dont you think? Notice how you had to corrupt Scripture to do that? Everyone's spirit goes back to Yah, doesnt it?

do you think Yah is a respecter of the term "Christian" or something, Eb?

bbyrd009 · Aug 24, 2020

Enoch111 said:
Perhaps you. Not us. The grave means nothing to the Christian, since he or she is immediately in Heaven, in the presence of Christ.

are you srsly that hopeless, pEnoch? Man, i feel for you guys, dont know why, but i do

best of luck to you all, ok?

Earburner · Aug 24, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
Someone was believing that the little horn that represented Antiochus E IV, was Jesus. That's absurd, so I asked them if Jesus was Greek. It was a joke. Unless they were speaking of the little horn of Daniel 7, then that wasn't Greek, and I misunderstood.

But no where in Scripture is the abomination that maketh desolate referring to Christ. I know the Seventh-day Adventists use Daniel 9:27 to depict Jesus, but that is wrong also. Jesus, Himself, refers to the abomination of desolation, and He certainly wasn't speaking of Himself.

Oh, sorry, I just looked back and those who thought it was Jesus was you and Waiting on him. That is surprising.

You are not hearing what I said. I never said that the LH was Jesus.
I said that Jesus used the act of
"the abomination that maketh desolate", as type and antitype, thus pointing to Himself, meaning that the temple of His mortal body was going to be desecrated, just as Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the Jewish temple.

"desecrated"- verb: to treat disrespectfully,
irreverently, or outrageously.
(Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

Enoch111 · Aug 24, 2020

Earburner said:
I said that Jesus used the act of "the abomination that maketh desolate", as type and antitype, thus pointing to Himself, meaning that the temple of His mortal body was going to be desecrated, just as Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the Jewish temple.

Why try to convolute prophecy and make the literal body of Christ the Antichrist's temple at Jerusalem? That makes Bible prophecy a farce.

The Bible is very clear. The Man of Sin -- the Antichrist -- will LITERALLY sit in a LITERAL future temple in Jerusalem LITERALLY claiming that he is God.

Earburner · Aug 24, 2020

Enoch111 said:
Why try to convolute prophecy and make the literal body of Christ the Antichrist's temple at Jerusalem? That makes Bible prophecy a farce.

The Bible is very clear. The Man of Sin -- the Antichrist -- will LITERALLY sit in a LITERAL future temple in Jerusalem LITERALLY claiming that he is God.

Again, as I had scripturally proved, there is NO "one man band", in the singular, called "THE" Antichrist.
"The man of sin" is "the natural man".
Why do you singularize one description, but then pluralize the second description, when both mean the same thing?
You don't know!
But, I did reveal it to you of why, from the TR Greek text.

VictoryinJesus · Aug 24, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
i agree the spirit goes back to Yah, Who gave it,

return to Me and I will return to you?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Earburner · Aug 24, 2020

Enoch111 said:
Why try to convolute prophecy and make the literal body of Christ the Antichrist's temple at Jerusalem? That makes Bible prophecy a farce.

The Bible is very clear. The Man of Sin -- the Antichrist -- will LITERALLY sit in a LITERAL future temple in Jerusalem LITERALLY claiming that he is God.

Also: do you deny that the mortal body of Jesus was the temple of God?
Since His body was the temple of God, and Jesus said that to his disciples beforehand,
For what reason did He even mention it to the Jews: "Destroy (desecrate/desolate) this temple (of myself), and in three days I will raise it up.
You don't know, because all of what church-ianity has taught you, is ricocheting off the walls of your head, clamoring for attention. Therefore the thin shaft of His light entering in, is crowded out immediately, by their preconceived ideas, crying for a voice.

justbyfaith · Aug 24, 2020

2Th 2:3, Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4, Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

I believe that the singular personal pronouns say it all.

Edward Fudge: Hero Or Heretic?

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