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BarneyFife

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I see your point, for I must admit that I did often find it strange that it was a capital crime to violate it. Maybe there's a profundity or sanctity that I am missing about it, but from my perspective, i see it more as a symbolic formality as any festival observance (Galatians 4:9-10), not as an act that edifies or imparts wisdom. But again, to violate it warranted the death penalty...?
Gracious post. But again, I hesitate to second guess God. I don't mean to persist as if the 4th commandment ranked above the other 9, but there is no conclusive evidence from Scripture that the weekly day of rest was ever abolished. And if sanctity is what you're looking for as evidence for its perpetuity, you've no further to look than the origin of the day:

Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. (Genesis 2:3)

This happened, obviously, before there were any Jewish folks.

God says "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy." And most of the church says "Sorry, Lord (Jesus) of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8), we've got better things to do on the weekend."

Of course, many folks just don't even know about the Sabbath.
 

charity

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Gracious post. But again, I hesitate to second guess God. I don't mean to persist as if the 4th commandment ranked above the other 9, but there is no conclusive evidence from Scripture that the weekly day of rest was ever abolished. And if sanctity is what you're looking for as evidence for its perpetuity, you've no further to look than the origin of the day:

Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. (Genesis 2:3)

This happened, obviously, before there were any Jewish folks.

God says "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy." And most of the church says "Sorry, Lord (Jesus) of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8), we've got better things to do on the weekend."

Of course, many folks just don't even know about the Sabbath.
'Let no man therefore judge you
in meat,
or in drink,
or in respect of an holyday,
or of the new moon,
or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come;
but the body is of Christ.'

(Col 2:16)

Hello BarneyFife,

A day of rest is advantageous for everyone, and meeting together to hear the Truth of God's Word preached, to receive teaching, to pray and worship God in spirit and in truth is a blessing for all. However there is no obligation upon the believer to do so on that day specifically.

For the Jew it was incumbent upon him to keep the sabbath days holy, as specified under the law, however we are not under the law, but under grace.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Stan B

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Hello @Stan B,

Thank you, I agree that it is a yet future event.

Would you please explain what you mean by the words, 'the invocation New Covenant' please?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Hello @Stan B,

Thank you, I agree that it is a yet future event.

Would you please explain what you mean by the words, 'the invocation New Covenant' please?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Sorry. Just a typical bad-wording day for me. I meant to say "invocation of the New Covenant" when God replaces the Jewish heart of stone with a heart of flesh. That hasn't happened yet, and I don't see it happening until after the 144,000 are sealed, and the church is taken up in Revelation 7. That's when God redirects His attention to Israel, and they see a New and better Covenant, which they embrace.
 
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marks

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Hello @marks,

Thank you for your response. In Answer to your question:-

'And if some of the branches be broken off,
and thou, being a wild olive tree,
wert graffed in among them,
and with them partakest of
the root and fatness of the olive tree;'

(Romans 11:17)

* Gentiles believer, who were grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel (representative of Israel's religious or covenant privileges) partook of the root and fatness of the Olive Tree, along with believing Israelites. This was done with the object of bringing new life to an ailing tree, and for no other reason. For the goal was to bring Israel to repentance, and the acknowledgment of the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah. That they may take up their Divinely appointed role as Priests unto God, among the nations.

The root and fatness are the Abrahamic blessings, millennial in nature, of which they partook as part of the New Covenant.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
OK. I want to think on this a bit.

:)

Much love!
 

marks

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The teaching that is implicit in this story is the contrast between freedom and bondage, between the law of Moses with its slavery and the glorious freedom resulting from saving grace. The Galatians had to decide which they wanted: they could not have both. So the Apostle uses every legitimate means to bring home to these Christians the intense seriousness of their choice and the results that would surely follow. Concluding with, 'So then brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.'
So then, your thinking is Paul was using these as examples of the outcomes of their choices, but not to say that these gentile believers were partakers of the new covenant. Am I understanding correctly?

Much love!
 

charity

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So then, your thinking is Paul was using these as examples of the outcomes of their choices, but not to say that these gentile believers were partakers of the new covenant. Am I understanding correctly?

Much love!
Hi @marks

Galatians was one of the first epistles that Paul wrote, so I do believe that these gentiles were grafted into Israel's olive tree, and partook of it's covenant blessings. For the door was open for 40 years for Israel to repent, and during that time, following Peter's use of the keys of the kingdom at God's instruction, Gentiles were grafted in, in the attempt to cause Israel to emulate them, repent and acknowledge the risen Christ. Only when Israel went away into the blindness of unbelief, following the quotation of Isaiah 6 in Acts 28, and salvation was sent to the Gentiles, did that of necessity cease. God had provisioned for this with the revelation given to Paul about the church which is the Body of Christ, which was made known in those later epistles, of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon. In which Jew and Gentiles were united in One Body, with Christ as their Head.

Praise God!

Thank you so much.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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BarneyFife

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'Let no man therefore judge you
in meat,
or in drink,
or in respect of an holyday,
or of the new moon,
or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come;
but the body is of Christ.'

(Col 2:16)

Hello BarneyFife,

A day of rest is advantageous for everyone, and meeting together to hear the Truth of God's Word preached, to receive teaching, to pray and worship God in spirit and in truth is a blessing for all. However there is no obligation upon the believer to do so on that day specifically.

For the Jew it was incumbent upon him to keep the sabbath days holy, as specified under the law, however we are not under the law, but under grace.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
I've always wondered why the predictable and common cry of "We are not under the law, but under grace" arises only when the 4th commandment is cited, and never in response to any of the other nine (9).
 

charity

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I've always wondered why the predictable and common cry of "We are not under the law, but under grace" arises only when the 4th commandment is cited, and never in response to any of the other nine (9).
Hello @BarnyFife,

Perhaps the others are not used as a means of judging others, as this one is.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

marks

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I've always wondered why the predictable and common cry of "We are not under the law, but under grace" arises only when the 4th commandment is cited, and never in response to any of the other nine (9).
I think that some things we understand as universally wrong, such as murder, or idolary, but other things are specific to God's covenant with Israel.

The dietary law, and clean and unclean animals are a good example. God gave strict rules to Israel, however, to Noah, God essentially told him You can eat anything that moves.

So the clean and unclean weren't something intrinsic to the situation, they were set by God with a specific application.

Much love!
 

marks

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Hi @marks

Galatians was one of the first epistles that Paul wrote, so I do believe that these gentiles were grafted into Israel's olive tree, and partook of it's covenant blessings. For the door was open for 40 years for Israel to repent, and during that time, following Peter's use of the keys of the kingdom at God's instruction, Gentiles were grafted in, in the attempt to cause Israel to emulate them, repent and acknowledge the risen Christ. Only when Israel went away into the blindness of unbelief, following the quotation of Isaiah 6 in Acts 28, and salvation was sent to the Gentiles, did that of necessity cease. God had provisioned for this with the revelation given to Paul about the church which is the Body of Christ, which was made known in those later epistles, of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon. In which Jew and Gentiles were united in One Body, with Christ as their Head.

Praise God!

Thank you so much.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Still thinking . . .

Ephesians 2
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Matthew 26
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

We were strangers to the covenants of promise, and we are made near by the blood of Christ, not be covenant,

yet "this is the blood of the new covenant".

As I'm thinking about this, it seems good to agree with you, that we are not brought into the new covenant, rather, we are simply offered reconciliation with God. But the blood that brings us close is the blood of the new covenant.

So still thinking . . .

Much love!
 

john t

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When I was growing up in mid-20th century America, the ten commandments were the standard of morality for Christians. My Southern Baptist grandmother often asked me to mow her lawn (about an acre). But she would never allow me to do it on Sunday.
<SNIP>
What happened?

You will do well to Google "Sunday Blue Laws"
 
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DNB

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Gracious post. But again, I hesitate to second guess God. I don't mean to persist as if the 4th commandment ranked above the other 9, but there is no conclusive evidence from Scripture that the weekly day of rest was ever abolished. And if sanctity is what you're looking for as evidence for its perpetuity, you've no further to look than the origin of the day:

Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. (Genesis 2:3)

This happened, obviously, before there were any Jewish folks.

God says "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy." And most of the church says "Sorry, Lord (Jesus) of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8), we've got better things to do on the weekend."

Of course, many folks just don't even know about the Sabbath.
There's something there to what you're saying, and you supported your position well with genesis 2:3. I am torn, for even just the idea of the all-powerful God requiring a day of rest, such a principle can only be symbolic and figurative, not inherently or fundamentally true. As Paul's denunciation of those who follow rituals and regiments, which merely have an appearance of reverence and devotion, but do not edify or sanctify (Colossians 2:16, Galatians 4:9-10, Colossians 2:23).
But again, it was a capital crime, and God undeniably sanctified the day...?
I am not convinced as of yet, that it is a compulsory mandate for man to remain observant of it, in both thought an action. But, I have to admit that it's true inherent significance, on any level, does elude me.
 
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BarneyFife

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There's something there to what you're saying, and you supported your position well with genesis 2:3. I am torn, for even just the idea of the all-powerful God requiring a day of rest, such a principle can only be symbolic and figurative, not inherently or fundamentally true. As Paul's denunciation of those who follow rituals and regiments, which merely have an appearance of reverence and devotion, but do not edify or sanctify (Colossians 2:16, Galatians 4:9-10, Colossians 2:23).
But again, it was a capital crime, and God undeniably sanctified the day...?
I am not convinced as of yet, that it is a compulsory mandate for man to remain observant of it, in both thought an action. But, I have to admit that it's true inherent significance, on any level, does elude me.
If a man loves a woman, but he spends no quality time with her on a regular, extended basis, the relationship will suffer. We need more than a few minutes here and there to stop, at length, and gaze upon the beauty of God and His creative and redemptive power. One of these aspects of God's character are given in each giving of the moral law in Exodus 20:11, and Deuteronomy 5:15, respectively, specifically within the Sabbath commandment. Granted, it seems ritualistic but, as I often say, placing a merely ritual and temporary rule in the middle of a moral code is a dirty trick that a just God wouldn't pull, to my mind. Take your time when considering, though. Count the cost of being fully obedient to God. It's never popular and all who live Godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution (2 Timothy 3:12).
 
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DNB

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If a man loves a woman, but he spends no quality time with her on a regular, extended basis, the relationship will suffer. We need more than a few minutes here and there to stop, at length, and gaze upon the beauty of God and His creative and redemptive power. One of these aspects of God's character are given in each giving of the moral law in Exodus 20:11, and Deuteronomy 5:15, respectively, specifically within the Sabbath commandment. Granted, it seems ritualistic but, as I often say, placing a merely ritual and temporary rule in the middle of a moral code is a dirty trick that a just God wouldn't pull, to my mind. Take your time when considering, though. Count the cost of being fully obedient to God. It's never popular and all who live Godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution (2 Timothy 3:12).
You bring up an excellent point, again! A day of devotion to express gratitude, contemplate His providence, generosity and majesty. Apply a day of rest which reflects one's faith in His abundance, i.e. let the land rest due to the surplus that was harvested the previous years, ...or previous 6 days.
Thank you BF, you've enlightened me to recognize a few points as to why God would both reserve and sanctify a day, in dedication to Himself. I believe now that there are edifying aspects to such a precept.
Is it, after the abrogation of the Law, binding on Christians, I'm not sure? But, I will affirm, clearly not unto death, as it was during the Old Covenant.