Edward Fudge: Hero Or Heretic?

BarneyFife · Aug 28, 2020

Backlit said:
I think many would like our errors to reside in both what we teach officially and unofficially. Historically not all Adventists have expressed our true teachings regarding law and obedience with the rectitude such a topic demands. Me Included.

But "many" didn't bring up the subject of corporate repentance. You did. Not everything that is accurate is Truth.

BarneyFife · Aug 28, 2020

Brother @Backlit I'm sorry for those last remarks. I believe they might have been uncalled for.

Brakelite · Aug 28, 2020

BarnyFife said:
What is to become of those who are not caught up to heaven with the Lord?
"Wait on the Lord, and keep His way, and He shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it." Ps. 37:34."The Lord hath a controversy with the nations; He will plead with all flesh; He will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the Lord." Jer. 25:31 (2 Thess. 1:7, 8).

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." Rev. 20:5.

"And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." Rev. 20:9.

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." ...You shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day that I do this,’ says the Lord of hosts” (Malachi 4:1, Malachi 4:3).

“Behold, they shall be as stubble, the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame; it shall not be a coal to be warmed by, nor a fire to sit before!” (Isaiah 47:14).

"And the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also; and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 2 Peter 3:10.

"For evil doers shall be cut off; but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth." Ps. 37:9.

How many lost souls are being punished in hell today?
“The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust
under punishment for the day of judgment” (2 Peter 2:9).

“The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).

“Sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death” (James 1:15).

“The cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death” (Revelation 21:8).

“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work” (Revelation 22:12).

“He will reward each according to his works” (Matthew 16:27).

“That servant who knew his master’s will, and did not ... do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few” (Luke 12:47, 48).

“Rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matthew 10:28).
“The soul who sins shall die” (Ezekiel 18:20).

“The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:10).
“I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you. … You … shall be no more forever” (Ezekiel 28:18, 19).

“For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more. … The enemies of the Lord … shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away” (Psalm 37:10, 20).

“God … gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life” (John 3:16).

You could quote many more similarly worded scriptures and the weight of evidence in your favor would still be offset by those with a penchant for dissecting leaves to distract from the forest.

amadeus · Aug 28, 2020

john t said:
EVERYTHING I posted was a summary of what Scripture clearly stated. Yet you quibble about it at your peril.

Also, your quibbling negates the claim that you and the SDA cult get their doctrines from the Bible. Yep, you have been in a cult for 30 years.

To help me understand, how exactly do you define a 'cult'? Thank you for your consideration!

Brakelite · Aug 28, 2020

BarnyFife said:
Brother @Backlit I'm sorry for those last remarks. I believe they might have been uncalled for.

? I saw nothing for which an apology was necessary.

Brakelite · Aug 28, 2020

amadeus said:
To help me understand, how exactly do you define a 'cult'? Thank you for your consideration!

Can he plead the fifth?

CharismaticLady · Aug 28, 2020

BarnyFife said:
"Legalism" means righteousness by works, no? Seventh-day Adventists don't teach that, Bbyrd. They teach that faith without works is dead.

Are you SDA? I'm ex-SDA, but love their zeal for the Law.

Brakelite · Aug 28, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
Are you SDA? I'm ex-SDA, but love their zeal for the Law.

Gets awkward around here with so many who hate a particular part of it. Although no-one would admit that.

BarneyFife · Aug 28, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
Are you SDA? I'm ex-SDA, but love their zeal for the Law.

I am a Seventh-day Adventist. I have interacted with you at CF, and enjoyed it very much. You are a credit to your Savior.

CharismaticLady · Aug 28, 2020

john t said:
EVERYTHING I posted was a summary of what Scripture clearly stated. Yet you quibble about it at your peril.

Also, your quibbling negates the claim that you and the SDA cult get their doctrines from the Bible. Yep, you have been in a cult for 30 years.

What is your definition of a cult?

Earburner · Aug 28, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
keep saying that, too; doesnt make it true, sorry
no, the breath of life is surely not oxygen, as there are anaerobic living things, right

In Noah's day, God killed off all animals and men (not in the ark) who did what?
Those who BREATHE oxygenated air
Gen. 7[21] And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:[22] All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Some day maybe, you'll figure it out.

CharismaticLady · Aug 28, 2020

BarnyFife said:
I am a Seventh-day Adventist. I have interacted with you at CF, and enjoyed it very much. You are a credit to your Savior.

I changed denominations because I sought the Spirit, and the moral laws written on our hearts. Most of my schooling was at SDA schools from elementary to college. I still love Choplets!

BarneyFife · Aug 28, 2020

Backlit said:
You could quote many more similarly worded scriptures and the weight of evidence in your favor would still be offset by those with a penchant for dissecting leaves to distract from the forest.

Indeed, there seems to be one among us who will go no further than 2 or 3 verses forward or back to determine the meaning of a verse. "Scripture in context," I believe it is called.

BarneyFife · Aug 28, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
I changed denominations because I sought the Spirit, and the moral laws written on our hearts. Most of my schooling was at SDA schools from elementary to college. I still love Choplets!

Oh, don't het me started on food. I used to eat Worthington Vegetarian Burger right out of the can. I love Swiss Stake.

amadeus · Aug 28, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
be a great day when all these professors get rounded up and tossed out on their cans imo

And then will there be anything or anyone left, but God and..? I guess I am thinking of the "professor" part of most of us. What is the difference between a man who has lots of answers and a man with only lots of questions? God may see the difference, but do any of us? Does this relate back to that earlier post made on this thread by @Backlit

Backlit said:
I know of an absolute certainty... Even absolutely truthfully... That what I don't know is infinitely more than what I do know.

When I was in school I did not understand the difference between the answer men and the question men even though I saw that there was a difference. In later years thinking back I thought that I was finally understanding the difference. Now in more recent years I am closer to where I started...LOL!

Taken · Aug 28, 2020

Earburner said:
If you are going to continue talking that way, then you are going have to pin it down as to what/who died in you, so that you CAN be saved!

Already am soul Saved AND and already said My Body...is:
Crucified...
Body is not Saved...it's Crucified.
And every drop of my Body's LIFE (BLOOD)(God will take).!
My living soul is Saved, shall never have Gods Life removed from it.
My spirit is already Quickened and shall Never die.

You don't seem to get it! You are no longer YOU, nor are YOU yourself alive anymore!

Of course my soul and spirit are me are alive.

Try this out, and figure out what happened to you, and all born again Christians who believe in Jesus.
Gal. 2[20] I am crucified [killed] with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:
and the life which I now live in the flesh
I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

He gave His Flesh Body.
And so ALSO did I give my Flesh Body.

He gave NOT His Soul or Spirit unto Death.
Neither did I.

You and I, who are born again, no longer exist as to who we once were, "after the flesh".
Romans 6[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Why are you telling me this...after I just posted the precise change that happen to a man's body, soul, spirit?

So then who is that, that is living withn you, that is NOT "soul" (you), but is "quickening spirit". Yes, you got it!
Its Jesus! And in this our flesh, you and I no longer exist!

Jesus IS NOT quickening spirit...Jesus IS the Quickening spirit, which means He is the Spirit the quickens (brings to life ) the spirit of a man, by rebirthing a man's spirit with the SEED of God.

We are hiddden-
Col. 3:1[1] If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
[2] Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
[3] For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Well, my soul ain't dead and my spirit ain't dead....and good thing...since if that were true no man could serve God.

Glory to God,
Taken

YeshuaFan1 · Aug 28, 2020

Enoch111 said:
In his book The Kingdom of the Cults, Walter Martin included the Seventh Day Adventist denomination. However the book puts that in an appendix, since the SDA church is a mixture of truth and error.

That was due to ther truth that he was mislead by higher ups, as thos ein charge of the Sda have gone back to holding to their heretical doctrines on Gospel!

YeshuaFan1 · Aug 28, 2020

Christophany said:
Great book and he was spot on with every ism/cult in his work.

Except for the view on the Sda, as he right near the end of his life lamented that the higher ups in charge of sda lied to him, and that they still were holding to the cult of Ellen white, and he would have seen them as being now a cult!

YeshuaFan1 · Aug 28, 2020

Backlit said:
My point precisely. Eternal torment has them suffering the same. In the same fire for the same time.
Annihilation as Adventists teach it, has them suffering for a varying time according to their works... Some with many stripes, some with less... And each individual will expire, die, after true justice is served.
So no, it isn't just that Stalin should be punished equally with anyone's grams who didn't know Jesus. And therefore such won't happen.

Sin has an eternal sin debt to must be paid to God, so either we are saved by Jesus paying it in full, or else we will have to for all eternity

YeshuaFan1 · Aug 28, 2020

bbyrd009 said:
this is wadr what happens when you let dead ppl teach the Bible imo
Christ came that we might have life, more abundantly, right
this concept of reward or punishment after death is totally pagan imo, and i suggest the Bible suggests some of that strictly as a mechanism to hide wisdom from the wise, and that It is not talking about any literal "after death" scenario at all

Jesus told to us there is exists after death eternally heaven and Hell

Edward Fudge: Hero Or Heretic?

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