I was saddened by a statement our President made yesterday;"Whether we like it or not the US is a leading super power in the World.". What a statement from our Commander in Chief, real encouragement to those who serve us in uniform. Today he is visiting Nassa to talk about the cut backs in the space program. Recently he removed anti missile weapons from strategic locations in Europe, which were to combat the possibilities of Iran and other rogue nations from firing. One must wonder about the objectives of this Administration. They make a point of going around the world and apologizing for the USA , apeasing our enemies. Now the deteriating of US/Isreal relations, which seems in favor of anyone except our great allie Isreal. Meeting with the Isreal Prime Minister in the Oval Office not allowing cameras or press. What is the objective? Many Americans ask.
Usa The Fall Of A Nation.
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01CobraVortech
New Member
USA The Fall of a Nation???????????????
We send the Word of God out, and witness more than any other Nation. Russia does not believe in God, China, No God, One nation makes twelve year old girls marry, and die in birth complications. Rape and Pillaging in another nation, One Nation thinks Cows can be uncle Larry.
What are you comparing us to???????
God will Judge America, and we get the two thumbs up
Jesus Is Lord
I have to respectfully disagree with you. I doubt America is getting two thumbs up right now and I believe we may just be watching that judgment being unleashed on the USA and rightfully so. If God judged His own chosen the people the Jews, then why would Christians think that God would not do the same to them? While America has many millions of Christians, it has been in the post-Christian era for some time. The Christian church today has many issues altogether. Some being how its been poisoned by the likes of Pastor Rick Warren and Joel Osteen. Many churches aren't even preaching the gospel anymore. Most churches today seem to be more concerned about bringing in worshipers with politically correct messages, rather than preaching the hard truths about scripture. And there seems to be more of an emphasis on entertaining worshipers in many large churches than there is in getting worshipers to be focused on praising the Lord. And do we even need to provide a commentary on America's mistreatment of Israel as of late? Have we all forgotten how the last administration bullied Israel into giving up Gaza? I don't find it coincidental that the same week the last Jew was leaving Gaza was also the same week that Katrina intensified and slammed into New Orleans. And now the current administration is taking hostilities to a new level with Israel. Oh how we as Christians have failed to recognize the faults of modern day America. We are the number one exported of pornography to the world. The number exporter of weapons technologies, many which go to Arab nations. We continue to have wholesale murder of children take place in America. Nearly 50 million since Roe vs. wade. And homosexuality and sexual perversion has basically become acceptable? Do we even hear the pulpits preach that we need to turn from sin? America today, isn't all that much different from Sodom and Gomorrah. We've allowed God to be kicked out of everything. This country is circling the drain and I wish I was just being melodramatic.
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Choir Loft
It is an axiom of the definition of sin - as well as a known psychological affectation - that the more a man or nation establishes himself/itself in power and glory, the greater is the fear of tumbling from his/its eminence or losing his/its treasure, or being discovered in his/its pretension. Poverty is a peril to the wealthy but not to the poor.
(Paraphrase of Bertrand Russell and Sigmund Freud)
"Woe to thee that spoilest, and thou wast not spoiled; and dealest treacherously, and they dealt not treacherously with thee! when thou shalt cease to spoil, thou shalt be spoiled." - Isaiah 33:1
Nevertheless there is hope. God is keeping a remnant of people for Himself among the population. Therefore those who are called by His name shall be made pure in His sight.
The founders were not Deists they were non-denominationalist. And if you don’t think that we were founded on Judea-Christian Vales you’re reading revisionist history. Just take a walk around the DC Mall. Read what’s on the documents and walls of all the buildings.
God does not take his blessings away from those who believe. He is a loving Father. Does a good father support his child, even if they are in prison? Do you ever stop loving your children?
The reason we are losing our blessing is our own doing. It is also Biblical. But it’s not God punishing us.
Let’s see:
We spend money we don’t have.
We break –up our families at a rate of over 50%.
Cheating is ok just don’t get caught.
We kill millions of unborn babies.
We are rude, we are nasty, we disrespect our elders, we are selfish, and you think it’s because of God? Naw, It’s because we are reaping what we sow.
Robster:
Well, Robster, not evenyone is called to teach everything, but needs to do as God has asked them. Lot's of the higher ups, listen to Rick Warren. I would rather them listen to Rick Warren, then some liberal nut case. Also Joel Osteen was told to preach just one thing. God is good, and smile while he is doing it. Every week we can tune into Joel and hear how good God is. People need that, and it's hard to remember where I was at one time. That is their ministery.
There are others you can tune in and hear something different. Like Hal lindsey, all end time stuff.
Many say that Joel is preaching a candy gospel. In a way, Joel is. However at one time in my life, I just needed to know God loved me, and Joel would have been great. Now the message is a little to simple for me. The man loves God, and is doing just as God told him to do. God has blessed him greatly, those that disobey God, we can see what happends to them. I can name several ministery's that have come crashing down, but even so, Joel's personal life is pristine. His character shows it. The real fruit will always come out if someone is in serious error and refuses to be corrected.
As for preachers taking up politics, yes, your right. My Pastor talked about this (Web site I gave you.) He also talks about the Church trying to compete with Hollywood to keep people coming. It is not a show. Our church is more for older and more mature people in the Lord, I don't know how many times I hear people complain that nobody pays attention to them.......sigh.......babies..... but God has many different types of churchs to fill needs and there are some really good ones still out there.
Now I agree with your stance on America. The problem is that we are going to have to break what some consider constitutional rights to fix it. I find it hard to believe that our constant TV shows about being homosexual, sex with just anyone, extreme violence is helping shape American up. I say pull the plug on Hollywood, and censor.
At one time, it use to be against the law to show a police officer killed on screen, now they pile up dead officers by the dozens. America teaches though these outlets that it's OK not to honor, and respect your elders.
My Pastor pointed out several comericals where the Parents are dumb as rocks but the kids are smart. It's not the way to go.
be blessed. (Used IE and no spell checker.........firefox gave up on me.)
Jesus Is Lord.
Well, Robster, not evenyone is called to teach everything, but needs to do as God has asked them. Lot's of the higher ups, listen to Rick Warren. I would rather them listen to Rick Warren, then some liberal nut case. Also Joel Osteen was told to preach just one thing. God is good, and smile while he is doing it. Every week we can tune into Joel and hear how good God is. People need that, and it's hard to remember where I was at one time. That is their ministery.
There are others you can tune in and hear something different. Like Hal lindsey, all end time stuff.
Many say that Joel is preaching a candy gospel. In a way, Joel is. However at one time in my life, I just needed to know God loved me, and Joel would have been great. Now the message is a little to simple for me. The man loves God, and is doing just as God told him to do. God has blessed him greatly, those that disobey God, we can see what happends to them. I can name several ministery's that have come crashing down, but even so, Joel's personal life is pristine. His character shows it. The real fruit will always come out if someone is in serious error and refuses to be corrected.
As for preachers taking up politics, yes, your right. My Pastor talked about this (Web site I gave you.) He also talks about the Church trying to compete with Hollywood to keep people coming. It is not a show. Our church is more for older and more mature people in the Lord, I don't know how many times I hear people complain that nobody pays attention to them.......sigh.......babies..... but God has many different types of churchs to fill needs and there are some really good ones still out there.
Now I agree with your stance on America. The problem is that we are going to have to break what some consider constitutional rights to fix it. I find it hard to believe that our constant TV shows about being homosexual, sex with just anyone, extreme violence is helping shape American up. I say pull the plug on Hollywood, and censor.
At one time, it use to be against the law to show a police officer killed on screen, now they pile up dead officers by the dozens. America teaches though these outlets that it's OK not to honor, and respect your elders.
My Pastor pointed out several comericals where the Parents are dumb as rocks but the kids are smart. It's not the way to go.
be blessed. (Used IE and no spell checker.........firefox gave up on me.)
Jesus Is Lord.
01CobraVortech
New Member
Brother Mike you always provide me with a different perspective and angle on things and I always appreciate that about your posts. I guess my contention with Osteen and Warren have been that I've rarely ever heard them preach about turning away or rejecting sin, even more so needing Jesus Christ to be saved from sin. I've heard too many sermons where if you're not living the good life, then you must be doing something wrong in the eyes of God as a Christian. I've heard too many sermons like that from them and that's always been my contention. Its true that Osteen and Warren's lives are pristine and their ministries are thriving, but Benny Hinn's ministry is a multi-million dollar ministry as well and we all understand the issue with his. I just have a very difficult time with the "candy gospel" approach that they take time and time again. I understand that God calls pastors for different things, but I also can't overlook Jesus' letter to the 7 churches, with him pointing out the good and the bad of each. So I'd say that a lot of my harsh criticism comes with that in mind.
sadly if USA does not repent and return to the Lord then i do believe it be end of a Nation.
look what happen with Bablyon and during Noah ark.
look what happen with Bablyon and during Noah ark.
Robster.
Thank you Robster!!! It is their life, and fruit we look for. Not everyone is for us though, and people do not always need to hear about sin. These ministers have to spend millions on air time, and it has to be the message God wants in a certain time. These are edification ministries.
Using wealth to measure a persons correctness with God, can be difficult. One thing that is a measure is when things are not right. Normally finances are hit first. This is when someone misses God or are in error.
Pro 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
Pro 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.
If your doing what God told you to do, things get brighter and better. They grow, and prosper. (Being willing and obedient you shall eat the good of the land.) When someone gets in sin and error problems happen, and they are off the path. Off God's path, there is darkness, and people stumble on things, and are confused as to why. Things get worse off God's Path.
Look at the PTL Club. All that money Jim Baker was bringing in, and it looked like God was blessing them. God was, but Jim started to do things that did not make God very happy. God sent people to warn Jim, but he ignored them. That great ministry fell, and Jim ended up in prison. Not only that but Jim had to battle cancer while in prison.
So, we judge by character, not what they preach. Lots preach goofy things, but do so because they get in areas that God never told them to. Still, God is full of Mercy, and because they do produce good fruit, and are honest, they are not taken down. It's God's mercy that keeps some bad ministry's around. Remember the gifts and callings are without repentance. What seems like a long time for judgment to us, is God trying to get them to use the calling and gift properly.
Binny Hinn...................................umph.......... I will just say I am not His Judge. This is where we have to discern Character. I don't mind what he does on stage, It bothers me though that when something is promised like medical reports before something is aired, and that promise is not followed though, among other things, I look at character. I can lay aside getting power from Katheryn's tomb as someone claimed, I can't overlook not keeping your word.
One thing I have learned. I don't always do things right. (Not that I mean to do wrong) I do teach and preach, and on a subject that many don't understand. (Faith) How I judge others, is the same measure I will be judged. I use to think it was my job to warn others of bad ministers......... Not only what I thought was bad, the Lord did not consider bad, but the Lord warned me that He said........"Take heed what YOU hear." The responsibility is on the person hearing. God will always lead someone into truth if they really want it, That is the Holy Ghost Job, not mine.
I think you will find those that follow error, they have deceived themselves into doing so. It's not the man speaking the error's fault. If that where the case, then no sin on the planet would be anyone's fault. Those that stay in error don't continue long.
A man called by God to be a prophet had a wonderful ministry. That was until he started to prophesies money out of peoples pockets. God sent people to warn him. He did not listen. He dropped dead and never reached 40.
Be blessed.
Jesus Is Lord.
Thank you Robster!!! It is their life, and fruit we look for. Not everyone is for us though, and people do not always need to hear about sin. These ministers have to spend millions on air time, and it has to be the message God wants in a certain time. These are edification ministries.
Using wealth to measure a persons correctness with God, can be difficult. One thing that is a measure is when things are not right. Normally finances are hit first. This is when someone misses God or are in error.
Pro 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.
Pro 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.
If your doing what God told you to do, things get brighter and better. They grow, and prosper. (Being willing and obedient you shall eat the good of the land.) When someone gets in sin and error problems happen, and they are off the path. Off God's path, there is darkness, and people stumble on things, and are confused as to why. Things get worse off God's Path.
Look at the PTL Club. All that money Jim Baker was bringing in, and it looked like God was blessing them. God was, but Jim started to do things that did not make God very happy. God sent people to warn Jim, but he ignored them. That great ministry fell, and Jim ended up in prison. Not only that but Jim had to battle cancer while in prison.
So, we judge by character, not what they preach. Lots preach goofy things, but do so because they get in areas that God never told them to. Still, God is full of Mercy, and because they do produce good fruit, and are honest, they are not taken down. It's God's mercy that keeps some bad ministry's around. Remember the gifts and callings are without repentance. What seems like a long time for judgment to us, is God trying to get them to use the calling and gift properly.
Binny Hinn...................................umph.......... I will just say I am not His Judge. This is where we have to discern Character. I don't mind what he does on stage, It bothers me though that when something is promised like medical reports before something is aired, and that promise is not followed though, among other things, I look at character. I can lay aside getting power from Katheryn's tomb as someone claimed, I can't overlook not keeping your word.
One thing I have learned. I don't always do things right. (Not that I mean to do wrong) I do teach and preach, and on a subject that many don't understand. (Faith) How I judge others, is the same measure I will be judged. I use to think it was my job to warn others of bad ministers......... Not only what I thought was bad, the Lord did not consider bad, but the Lord warned me that He said........"Take heed what YOU hear." The responsibility is on the person hearing. God will always lead someone into truth if they really want it, That is the Holy Ghost Job, not mine.
I think you will find those that follow error, they have deceived themselves into doing so. It's not the man speaking the error's fault. If that where the case, then no sin on the planet would be anyone's fault. Those that stay in error don't continue long.
A man called by God to be a prophet had a wonderful ministry. That was until he started to prophesies money out of peoples pockets. God sent people to warn him. He did not listen. He dropped dead and never reached 40.
Be blessed.
Jesus Is Lord.
01CobraVortech
New Member
Brother Mike you just blew me to pieces with your scripture bazooka. :lol: That was a great post and I got a lot of gems out of it. From now on Brother Mike your aka is going to be "Bible Rambo." :lol: And that's because when you tackle the tough subjects, you come to battle with bazookas, rpg launchers and laser guided missiles full of the right scriptures. And you take no prisoners!
We won't fail as a Nation because God strikes us down. We will fail because we refuse to follow what God has given us to do in order to prosper.
When a team loses it is not because the coach wanted them to lose. It's because they did not practice hard enough or listen to the coach.
My kids make mistakes all the time. Many times if they just took wise advice, they would be much more prosperous. Do I want them to fail? Do I not want them to be unhappy? NO, but they are grown now and they have free will.
Focus on what you need to do instead of what you need to avoid!!!
01CobraVortech
New Member
[email protected]
Choir Loft
You're making a statement there that is neither Biblical nor practical.
God doesn't take His blessings away from those who believe? WRONG.
Ever hear of Corrie Ten Boom? She was a Dutch Christian. Along with her family she hid Jews from the Gestapo during WWII.
The family was discovered and all of them were sent to concentration camps. Corrie was the only one to survive.
I had the privilege of meeting a Romanian Christian who was imprisoned by the Communists for his faith. He lost everything and nearly his life.
The Bible has an entire book on the subject; read JOB.
Then there is the ultimate example of Jesus himself. God the father humiliated Him and took everything away from Him.
God can and does take His blessings away from His children; because of disobedience, because of general judgment, and sometimes just because.
God is NOT a vending machine who dispenses goodies to good Christian boys and girls just because we go to church.
The only guarantee of permanence in the Bible is eternal life with Christ. The goodies stay here.
WRONG
Jesus has paid for ALL of our sins: past, present, & future. He loves you no matter what you did.
So, it was God who sent Corrie Ten Boom to the concentration camps? I thought it was the Nazi’s?
God took everything away from Jesus? I thought it was the Jewish Pharisees & the Romans?
God does not TAKE the blessing s away but if you don’t listen to HIS advice the chances are you will in for hard times.
God does not impregnate a girl who has sex out of wedlock nor does HE strike you down for using drugs. But if you keep ignoring HIM you just may end up in a mess. If you spend money you don’t have you will go BROKE. I don’t care how religious you are.
Then explain how God allows an infant to contract a terrible disease?
Bad things happen even to good people but tell me your life is not better with HIM? Our TRUE blessings are not in this world.
[email protected]
Choir Loft
That doens't mean Christ has become a vending machine.
"Christ is Lord" means that He is to be the pinnacle of our desires - not our toys.
Please read your Bible. It appears that you've missed a few Sunday school lessons.
God committed Christ to the cross, which as an obedient son, Jesus accepted.
The Ten Boom family knew that following the example of Christ would get them in trouble with the NAZI government.
Assuming the love of worldly possessions to be of little worth, they committed themselves to God's ways....and lost everything of value except Christ.
YES HE DOES TAKE BLESSINGS AWAY.
I recommend you read the book of Job in the Bible and heed its message rather than the false gospel you've accepted.
Accidents happen. Disease happens.
Trouble happens and despite the best Christian intentions and behavior they lose their possessions (and sometimes their hope).
You speak here as an uneducated and inexperienced child. The world holds pleasure and possessions above all else.
Christianity hold Christ above all else, including games, toys, fashion, health and life itself.
The gospel of prosperity is a lie.
You are right here. Its the human that digs their own hole. Bad behavior results in ugly consequences.
Again I advise you to study the book of Job.
For thousands of years so called experts have asked why God allows evil in the world.
The sin of Adam and Eve caused that question to be asked and the book of Job answers it.
The answer is really very simple. IT'S NONE OF OUR BUSINESS. Read the book of Job.
Why does God allow a child to suffer a terrible disease? It's none of our business. Read the book of Job.
Why do I have cancer? It's none of MY business. Read the book of Job.
Is Christ your Lord? If so, then His decisions are acceptable and His reasons are not subject to debate.
Your last line is real funny.
During your entire post you are proclaiming the efficacy of blessings, possessions and toys and only at the end do you quote a slogan that you do not believe.
If you do believe it (and we are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt), then your theology/philosophy is badly confused.
As a solution I suggest that you read the book of Job.....thoroughly.
(and lose the gospel of prosperity - it really doesn't suit you)
During your entire post you are proclaiming the efficacy of blessings, possessions and toys and only at the end do you quote a slogan that you do not believe. – I never EVER advocated Prosperity.
The gospel of prosperity is a lie. – And your point is?
God committed Christ to the cross, which as an obedient son, Jesus accepted. –
The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
—John 10:17-18, NIV
Pilate tried to compromise with the religious leaders by having Jesus beaten, but this act didn't satisfy them. Pilate handed Jesus over to be crucified (Mark 15:6-15)
“Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” Luke 23:34.
You speak here as an uneducated and inexperienced child. – And your education is from where?
It appears that you've missed a few Sunday school lessons. – Maybe you need to find another Church
"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.... For if by one man's offence death reigned by one, much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ (Romans 5:1-2, 17).
No one is justified - that is, he cannot become holy or righteous - by his own works, obedience or faithfulness. Rather, these things are all the result of a justifying faith in the power of Christ's blood to make us acceptable in God's sight: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).
"Even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified" (Galatians 2:16).
You can't have peace with God if you do not know how you are made right before Him. You must be fully convinced you are clear before God, not by your own diligence or works, but by believing and trusting in the victory of the Cross of Jesus!
And one more thing, if you want to get stuck in JOB and the Law go right ahead.
I hope you are keeping the Sabbath (Saturday NOT Sunday) & sacrificing your unblemished goats
I for one, thank Jesus for HIS Grace
I hope you are keeping the Sabbath (Saturday NOT Sunday) & sacrificing your unblemished goats
I for one, thank Jesus for HIS Grace
[email protected]
Choir Loft
I agree with most of what you've said...except your basic assumption that God doesn't take away his blessings from those who believe in Him. He certainly does.
1. Belief is not a coin that we can use to buy stuff from heaven's vending machine.
Satan believes and that creature will certainly lose much.
Many humans claim to believe in God and then act like the devil.
2. Those who refuse to accept the fact that God punishes are those who are closest to judgment themselves.
One of the greatest problems in our country today is the loss of the 'fear of God'.
Proverbs says that this caution is the beginning of wisdom and it has certainly fled from our nation.
Speak to anyone about the fear of God and they will act as though you've got AIDS.
3. God grants and removes blessings for His own purposes and in His own times from believer and unbeliever alike.
The cemeteries are full of those who've lost everything in life and there is no difference between believer and non-believer there.
When you say that God does not or can not judge our nation because of our decadence and debauchery, you blind yourself to the possibility, and practically dare the Almighty to act.
In point of fact, all of the actions you mentioned above such as rudeness, abortions, etc. are things that the Bible says will happen BECAUSE of a judgment of God.
Our nation has abandoned God and we are therefore suffering the judgment of BEING abandoned by God in return.
I agree with you, many church people are professing christians who do not pocess Christ. Going to church no more makes one a christian then going to the chicken coop makes one a chicken. Paul discribed them this way II Timothy 3:1-7.
Very True.
Christianity is a relationship with Jesus the Christ not a Religion, Denomination, or Building. Evil is the lack of God
As I said, God does not strip a Nation of its blessing and has not since the Crucifixion.
That being said, if a nation turns its back on God, what do you think fills the void?
It is my belief that you CAN’T truly accept the blessings of GOD without having Him in your life. God does not need punish us. We manage that all on our own.
Christianity is a relationship with Jesus the Christ not a Religion, Denomination, or Building. Evil is the lack of God
As I said, God does not strip a Nation of its blessing and has not since the Crucifixion.
That being said, if a nation turns its back on God, what do you think fills the void?
It is my belief that you CAN’T truly accept the blessings of GOD without having Him in your life. God does not need punish us. We manage that all on our own.
[email protected]
Choir Loft
Blessings can be acquired and lost. Christianity is not about blessings, its about discipleship and true humility before the Lord of Hosts. It can neither begin nor endure without recognizing our position in the scheme of things. Jesus is Lord, not the toy store.
I hold a Masters degree in Theology and Church History from an accredited seminary in NY.
There are times when one needs to rely upon an education a bit more formal than Sunday school, which is usually taught by self-educated, opinionated, theologically illiterate, albeit well meaning persons.
Peace with God and the enjoyment of His grace do NOT equate to a shopping spree at Wal-Mart nor the guarantee that the bank won't repossess a mortgage in default.
Again, the Gospel of Prosperity is a lie.
Discipleship is not about blessings and losses, it's about following Christ no matter where that may lead; and sometimes it leads to loss.
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